/lit/ - Literature

Are you sure?

>>4719817
The Christ in this sermon inverts our expectations of people and how they should fit into the world. The meek, of course, do not 'inherit the earth' precisely because they are meek and do not set out to conquer-- and -that-, exactly, is his point. The world we live in is not as it should be. To put in another way, we're not living the way we should be. The unworthy have laid claim of the earth and pretend to have its blessings because they took it all for themselves, but by their very action of trying to take they, ultimately, lose everything. They have chosen wrong. This is why you must "give up everything and follow [him]" in order to be "perfect," not, as Sherwood Anderson put it in Winesburg, Ohio, a "grotesque".

No wonder capitalists like the proles as Christians.

>>4719831
>an academic tells us about how something "inverts" something else

Ugh.

>>4719831
Or Christ is simply stating the aim of Christianity in general. This quote seems to be the general theme from what I can gather.

The meek = the Last Men

>>4719835

>feminist communist

haha holy shit.

There exist people who try to one-up each other in meekness. It's funnier than shit.

Also, there are people who go around pretending they're more humble than the next guy. Some even go so far as to say, "you should be as humble as I am," in so many words.

Christians are the most hilarious people on the planet.

>>4719837
>an academic uses onomatopoeia to criticize someone
Despicable

>>4719817
This line filled my little heart with such hope, as a child.

Parroting my mother I think. We were such the meek, quiet family.

>For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Do you agree? Is that what justice really is?

>>4719857

Imagine having to love someone else as much as you love yourself lol. No wait, imagine having to love EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD that much lol. Only Christians.

>>4719861

>>4719837
>I don't like word
Tough tits, sugar.

>>4719842
But that is the aim of his Christianity (if that's what you want to call what the Christ himself was teaching), a kind of anarcho-theocratic society where men and women guide each other through ethics and example, instead of lording over one another through political (Rome) or religious (temple priests/zealot revolutionaries) authority.

>>4719865
>Imagine no possessions.

Here's a photo of John Lennon relaxing at home. So inspiring.

>>4719865

John Lennon kinda sounds like a prick. Perhaps he did love everyone deep down, but he would bitch at his kids for not wanting to play around with music and singing. This was when they were toddlers, mind you.

>>4719884

>a kind of anarcho-theocratic society where men and women guide each other through ethics and example

most people can't even tie their shoes in the morning

>>4719885
He just said imagine it, not actually do it.
As opposed to that guy who said "Sell everything you have and give to the poor."

>>4719884
>I don't like word

It's not the word, it's the hackneyed, well-spent concept of "inversion" in academic papers. It's what people who apparently don't actually like literature reach for when they can't think of anything else to say.

>>4719900
>He just said imagine it, not actually do it.

How useless.

>>4719885
>>4719900
Both killed for doing something out of the norm, right?

>>4719898
Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?

>>4719915
both killed for flapping their gums

the moral of jesus's (and lennon's) story is keep your yapper shut

>>4719917

Unfortunately any overcoming leads to "lording over" m8.

>>4719915
When the world hates you, remember it hated me first.

>>4719904
Unfortunately, I don't read academic papers and can not share your disdain.

>>4719921
And commingling with deranged people. Getting too close to the streets while famous.

>And in the meantime, the strong will have a good time of it

--Garfield the Cat

>>4719885

Fun fact: he died in a five-figure Zilli coat

>>4719947

enjoy eternal torture

you deserve it for having fun.

>>4719904
Okay, so, maybe people use it a lot, but come on. Inversion is a concept that absolutely could apply to literature and concepts contained within. Just because some people used it as a buzzword doesn't automatically invalidate anything using the word.

>>4719817
Uh

that's supposed to be jesus right? From what? Cause that looks a whole lot like me

>>4719994
Franco Zeffirelli's Jesus of Nazareth

post pic

>>4720012
Thanks,

>post pic

nah. No reason to anyway, just imagine that pic younger with a crew cut, slightly shorter beard and bushy eyebrows.

Are you Christian Bale?

>God having a son.
>God being three parts.

Doesn't make much theological sense now, does it?

>>4720101
>implying Christ is the literally God's son
Christ is the Logos, the eternal and transcendent Form of the Good born a man, the Word made Flesh.
He called himself the Son of God because he was sent from God, but he also spoke of his Father as being our Father also. God is not a man, but if he were, Christ would be as his son.

>>4720140
HERESY!
Seriously though, clear as mud.
But there's more! (that you can't explain either) He said he was the son of man too.

>>4720140
Wouldn't it be strange/suspicious, even if he was truly that ideal of a person, for him to claim he was the son of god? Especially since what he preached differed from the current teachings?

For example, if someone did that today, even if they appeared in every aspect of their life to be the epitome of christian belief, wouldn't claiming they were literally born of God mark them as just some insane cult leader?

>>4720197
He never directly said he was the Son of God though, it was always implied by others.

>>4720210
Ah okay. Did not realize that. I honestly don't know much and haven't read too much of the bible.

>>4720197
>even if he was truly that ideal of a person
He was literally the Ideal, born into a person. That's the Incarnation. People have simplified it to the point that it's like an already-anthropomorphized God who has a demigod son with a human woman, like Zeus or something, but it's not that. It an idea, and that idea has been since the beginning of time, and the idea dwelt with God, and the idea was God. Two thousand years ago that idea entered our physical world and was born as a man, and that man taught the idea and lived in accordance with it but also literally was it. That's why an understanding of Platonism is so important for the Gospel of John, because it totally changes the meaning of stuff like "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

>>4720197
You are now aware that Jesus of Nazareth had nothing to lose. He was born poor, lived poorly, was poorly educated, and could basically say anything he liked without having a single thing to lose.

You should always be wary of people with nothing to lose, because they can claim anything and do anything and it makes not a bit of difference to them.

>>4719850

>>4720210
I'm pretty sure his claims of being the only son of God are all over the New Testament (in Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John). Granted, those books were written hundreds of years after his death...

>>4720260

>>4720260
>not the gif
Step it up.

>>4719861
Only Christians are radical enough to go beyond loving thy neighbour as thyself to loving thy enemy.

Nothing about human nature has changed since Jesus was around. Men are selfish sinners, and that hasn't changed at all. Why else would they want to deny or kill somebody who only preached loving one another so bad?

>>4720481
Christian 'love' of enemies is nice guy love: Creepy, fevered. Seeking control of the object of its affections.

Its a parody of love in the sense of a mortal loving another either unconditionally, or on their own terms.

>>4720481
Something they could never quite pull off.

Do we wonder why?

>>4719974

>2014
>still believing in an afterlife

>>4720274
Hundreds of years? More like decades. Revelation, thought of as the youngest book of The Bible, is believed to be written around AD 95.

>>4719885
Maybe everyone should have the opportunity for creative endeavours

>>4720530
>implying you know what you are talking about

>>4720549
>denying the Resurrection

>>4720589
Missionaries put people into situations where its hard to say no all the time. How is that not what fucking PUA pieces of shit do? It's fake and it comes off just as.

>>4719835
Also why they like OWS's pacifism.

it's clear that most people on this board just aren't smart enough for study of the liberal arts (religion or philosophy especially). i'd suggest giving up and just becoming stem majors so that at least you could hide behind some cool formulas most people will never want to learn when you say stupid shit. "PEACE"

>>4720635
asspenis shitfuckdick

sorry for insulting you guys but you all seem to be going about this in a pretty useless way. you're looking at the wrong things. think larger. come up with the biggest issues you can and think about them a lot and then see what religion looks like

>>4719885
>>4719865
Now if only he actually followed that philosophy and wasn't a completely shit musician.

>>4720635
fuck you nigger
we all know you're a comp sci major
>tfw STEM fags have actual jobs

>>4719835
If you read so much, how are you so fucking stupid?

>>4720140
zero fucking sense, zero.

>>4719831
Look at this nigger over here. It's almost like you haven't even dipped your toes into the shallow end of philosophy and read Nietzsche's critique of the slave morality.

The meek shall inherit the earth, the bossy shall blow it up from space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDS00Pnhkqk&feature=kp

>>4720707
Since when do capitalists prefer proles to be atheist?

Alternative translation: The poor shall occupy the land.

>>4720776
Since christians started avoiding some habits because of their beliefs.

Besides, you've seen the kind of easily swayed, drooling turds some atheists are.

>>4720761
>Jesus Christ was a man
heresy

>>4720707
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
-Napoleon

“To rulers religion, like almost everything else, is a tool of power.”
-Will Durant

"And as the observance of the ordinances of religion is the cause of the greatness of a State, so their neglect is the occasion of its decline; since a kingdom without the fear of God must either fall to pieces, or must be maintained by the fear of some prince who supplies that influence not supplied by religion."

"Taking occasion from this, the nobles, at the next creation of tribunes, gave out that the gods were angry with Rome for lowering the majesty of her government, nor could be appeased but by the choice of tribunes being restored to a fair footing. Whereupon the people, smitten with religious awe, chose all the tribunes from the nobles."
-Machiavelli

>>4720803
>responds with a bunch of quotes

fuck off you dummy

>>4720803
>implying anyone has enough freedom to do/think anything during absolutism
The only thing I can is to reiterate my question.

How are you this dumb?

>>4720810
I'm not implying anything. Subjectivity is always latent, Christianity sees it as a sin.

>>4720809
There wasn't even a fucking argument made.

"You're stoopid!"
That does not merit a sophisticated reply.

>>4720809
>>4720810
Refute them or hang your head and go.

>>4720823
lol, for you to talk about sophisticated replies.

>>4720828
She's more than a match for D&E
But then you don't know who that even is...

>>4720834
who the fuck are YOU tho?

>>4720635
0/10 apply you're self

>>4720274
Actually I think it's only mentioned once in the Synoptic gospels, but Jesus himself doesn't say it, merely confirms it when Peter says it.

15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

From what I remember though, it's said or implied more frequently in John.

>>4720803
This applied when religion was the prevailing ideology. Now replace the 'ecclesiastical principalities' chapter in Machiavelli's The Prince with the last ten sections of the third essay of Nietzsche's Genealogy and you're golden.

>>4720821
>Subjectivity is always latent, Christianity sees it as a sin.
DOHOHOHO... Yeah. I'm not doing this.

I don't care anymore.

>>4720858
In other words I'm implying that science has taken the place of religion.

>>4720865
Capitalism is still the prevailing religion. Look at how we're doing little to nothing about climate change issues.

>>4720870
What do you suggest then?
The only problem I see with the world today is the refusal to comply with legally-approved capitalism.

>>4720870
Hey, capitalism is just the prevailing government. Much like how feudalism flourished with religion, so then does capitalism flourish with science.

>>4719817
Peasants run all the important stuff, true dat.

>>4720876
A balanced soft capitalism, where the whole world would behave like Norway for instance, would still eventually degrade in time to the current state of cleptocracy. I suggest, once we get to that happy worldwide Norway socialism, we take the plunge and give up the ghost.

>>4720879
>capitalism is just the prevailing government
It sure has it's tentacles in it.
>so then does capitalism flourish with science.
Ah, no.

>>4720481
Love isn't that cheap, though. I pity you for not knowing what love is.

>>4720896
>Norway
>not a fucking mess because of lazy shits exploiting the system
I'd love to see any of you idiots try to pull this shit on /biz/.

>>4720902
>/biz/
"Businessmen" Aspiring wealthy people. Once they gain that wealth they become the laziest people on earth.

Speaking of which. Bedtime here. This time is not my own. Must work tomorrow.

>>4720858
The pursuit or mere hope for money is the the prevailing ideology. Money is where we go for love, for meaning, for everything.

>>4720879
Capitalism flourishes with selective science, with selective knowledge in selective hands. Capitalism flourishes with the science of intensifying power and profit, but not with science per se.

Capitalism is not government, is it so far above and beyond government, it is god. You're trying to fit capitalism within a jurdico-discursive narrative, but it's above and beyond anything like that.

>>4720902
/biz/ is completely focused on the intensification of power in the hands of an individual, regardless of its ethical or productive implications, it has no business speaking on anything political.

>>4720982
>the pursuit of money is the prevailing ideology

where? Because where I am, the prevailing ideology is the pursuit of happiness through science

>>4720983
What do you think is right? Marxist thought always struck me as more critical (I mean literally, criticism based) than constructive. I mean, there are solutions offered, of course, but more time is spent on the problems of the current system than the solutions to come.

>>4720481
Christianity is more remarkable for loving what it hates
>In the order of human generality, a degree of hate is implied. Kierkegaard quotes Luke 14: 26: '"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."' Recognizing that 'this is a hard saying', Kierkegaard nevertheless upholds the necessity for it. He refines its rigour without seeking to make it less shocking or paradoxical. But Abraham's hatred for the ethical and thus for his own (family, friends, neighbours, nation, but at the outside humanity as a whole, his own kind or species) must remain an absolute source of pain. If I put to death or grant death to what I hate it is not a sacrifice. I must sacrifice what I love. I must come to hate what I love, in the same moment, at the instant of granting death. I must hate and betray my own, that is to say offer them the gift of death by means of the sacrifice, not insofar as I hate them, that would be too easy, but insofar as I love them. Hate wouldn't be hate if it only hated the hateful, that would be too easy, but insofar as I love them. Hate cannot be hate, it can only be a sacrifice of love to love. It is not a matter of hating, betraying by one's breach of trust, or offering the gift of death to what one doesn't love.
-Dorito

>>4721057
This is sophistry.
What is meant by the "unless you hate your own father, mother, etc." passage, is that your worldly relatives have certain expectations of you that are not in line with the will of God. Your father or mother might push you to be rich and lead you into pride and the company of sinners, for example. This is what is meant by hating your father, mother, etc.: you have to recognize them as stumblingblocks on the path that leads to God. This is especially true if your parents are not Christian and do not understand the importance of being Christian.
The passage does not mean to have a seething hatred for your relatives. It's more like, "avoid your relatives" than "hate your relatives". This is clarified when a disciple tells Jesus about his mother and Jesus replies that his disciples are his true family: it's about spiritual bonds being tighter than flesh & blood bonds.

>>4721078
>>4721057

Neither of those is how I interpreted it. Granted, I know nothing of the nuances of the original languages and I'm speaking of a translation and readings of other people, but I always say the 'hate your father etc' piece as basically being a riff on Christian asceticism, a freeing of the spirit from all connections, with no dependence on anything but God.

I can think of some things that might be problematic with my line of thought here, mostly love thy neighbour, but there's no harm in posting.

>>4721036
Science serves money, not happiness.

>>4721053
There had to be some sort of comprehensive criticism, and Marxism did a great job of it. Trouble is, we're stuck in a rut of just criticizing in ways that are cool and sexy and make other leftists clap. So it's easy to look at Marxism now and say, "But it lacks solutions," but back in Marxists time there was an abundance of solutions without significant scientific analysis, and that is called utopianiism

>>4721088
what do you think is the right alternative to capitalism today?
From a pig pragmatic perspective, nordic socialist democracy seems to be best, but the world's never as simple as it seems.

>>4721078
we need to go deeper
>>4721057
too deep!
>>4721087
just right

>>4721057
>If I put to death or grant death to what I hate it is not a sacrifice. I must sacrifice what I love. I must come to hate what I love, in the same moment, at the instant of granting death. I must hate and betray my own, that is to say offer them the gift of death by means of the sacrifice, not insofar as I hate them, that would be too easy, but insofar as I love them. Hate wouldn't be hate if it only hated the hateful, that would be too easy, but insofar as I love them.
Wait wait wait, are you telling me that Kierkeegard was this guy?

>>4721101
Nordic social democracy is just extreme social liberalism, it's not alternative to capitalism.

My idea is property belonging to municipalities controlled by direct democracy. When workers create something, then can sell it to the municipality or not; if they are reimbursed through credits for borrowing things, which vary (a gun might be lent for a few weeks in a city, but for a lifetime in a rural area); things are borrowed from community owned centers that work like libraries except lend everything and can lend for a lifetime. Food is distributed through credit purchase as well, though obviously it's not lending; restaurants opened by workers can choose to work for the community, in which case all workers there have a steady income of credits, but must provide food for all who qualify. All municipalities have the option of joining the state, in which case they pay a service fee that they must choose whether or not to renew every few years. The state's main purpose is to coordinate inter-municipality affairs; workers can submit job requests, and the state will give them placement options in municipalities requesting that sort of work.

But that's just a rough idea. The important thing is that socialism be flexible, it must figure out what works and what doesn't, and then build around what works. Whether that's my system, or something completely different, like syndicalism, I wouldn't know; it would be found out through practice and democracy.

>>4719904

Shots fired.

>>4721125
Most faggotry phrase ever. Stop it. No shots were fired. You are a fagit.

>>4720549
tips fedora

>>4721119
Every angsty idealistic anime protag/antagonist is Kierkeegard.

Blessed is the lamb whose blood flows.

>>4719817
Inherit the earth meaning sink into the ground, dead. And the strong will inherit the surface above the earth.