/lit/ - Literature

I only read high genre fiction.
I will not read genre fiction unless it has been praised by no less than twelve esteemed literary critics.

reading genre fiction is like eating twinkies for dinner; you know its not good for you and there are more nutritious things out there but sometimes you just want a goddamn twinkie

>>4682205
twinkies are disgusting.

>>4682205
Le funny patrician face xD

>>4682205
until you develop your palette to enjoy finer foods so that comparatively twinkies taste like dog shit

Couldn't get into Malazan because of the godawful poetry at the chapter headings. Fantasy poetry is just fuucking dreadful.

What exactly is /lit/'s beef with fantasy? Do these people not realize they're on a website mostly based around Japanese entertainment? Do they also hate movies, TV shows, video games and any sort of pastime that doesn't involve culturally relevant literature and philosophy?

I just can't take these people seriously.

>>4682205
Are twinkies a euphamism for cock?

There's no way whoever wrote a book like that has enough to say to fill up a book of that length, much less three of them. I suspect trying to get through that book would be more like torture than anything resembling a guilty pleasure.

>>4682398
Three? There are ten in that series by that author, with more planned.

>>4682423
That's my beef with fantasy. If it was an easy, quick read, I'd like it. But everything has to be minimally a trilogy and often a whole fucking series with other sub-series, it's bullshit.
I can sort of understand why people would say "read the fucking Illiad in half that time" even though I can't stand the Illiad.

>>4682395
Because this is the only board among all those where we could actually have good discussions about literature and it gets flooded by genre fiction instead. The whole thing about this being a website based around japanese entertainment I'm not going to go into, but I disagree that that's the theme of the whole website and not some boards within it.

I do read some genre fiction from time to time, but I really think it's not worth talking about.

>>4682207
indeed.
bears are much more respectable gays.

>>4682444
Agreed. I kind of hope someone comes along and bucks the trend by writing concise, well written, self contained fantasy novels. Just because Tolkien had a hard on for linguistics and anthropology doesn't mean every fantasy story has to be a ten volume tome.

>>4682532
The problem with that is the element of risk that always comes when you want to try to sell something outside of its well-accustomed target demographic and fanbase.

Because I think it is true that the massive volume and length is absolutely a point of appeal for the existing fanbase.

>>4682444
People read fantasy for escapism, and for these people it's basically the more escapism the better. They like those huge series because it lets them stay immersed in the world for longer.

>>4682553
And then several of my friends try to get me to read Game of Thrones because it's so PERFECT. Fuck no. When I want some sword and sorcery I read a Conan story.

>>4682553
>>4682559
There was a thread on here in the last week where someone was saying how Forgotten Realms was the best fantasy solely because it had the most shit written set in it

Shit is ridiculous

>>4682570
That was me.
Star Wars has quite a bit in it as well, you should check it out.

>>4682395
I don't really care. Just read what you like.

>>4682386
>i don't like kitkats because of their wrapper
literally retarded

>>4682386
Then skip the goddamn poetry you brat.

>>4682398
Memories of Ice was actually pretty dense and had alot of shit to say. As an individual novel it's comparable to Lord of the Rings in length, structure and scope.

If you think people don't have enough shit to say to put them in long books you are obviously small-minded. Try to shit on War and Peace and Les Miserables in the meantime.

>>4682444
Neil Gaiman writes standalone fantasy books. All of Tolkiens books are standalone novels set in the same world. Stephen King writes standalone fantasy. Nearly every famous fantasy author you heard of that wrote a big series also wrote standalone books (including Steven Erikson). Stop being ignorant.

>>4682459
The only genre fiction thread on the board right now is this one.

>>4682532
Every fantasy author who ever wrote the 'tomes' you so dislike also wrote smaller books. And then there's Glen Cook, David Eddings, Roger Zelanzey and Terry Pratchett.

>>4683036
"standalone in the same world" isn't standalone, that's a sub series shit

>>4683085
A self contained story is standalone. Otherwise 90% of the western cannon is "sub series shit"

>>4683099
>90% of the western cannon is "sub series shit"

What? Unless you're gonna pull the "EVERYTHING IS BASED ON THE BIBLE" I don't see how this makes any sense.

>>4683109
Everything is set in real life. The Brothers Karamazov is set in the same world as Tom Sawyer.

>>4683119
And Faust

Pic related. It's like watching a James Bond film, you know that one guy standing against a hundred is impossible but you keep watching.

It's good for learning English too, as his prose is very straightforward.

Firstly, what do people actually mean by 'genre fiction'? And how does it differ from fantasy? Or is fantasy a sub set of genre fiction?

Anyway, I kinda like Angus Wells, despite the fact he isn't anything special. And the ending to Lords of the Sky was absolutely terrible, a huge waste of what could have been an interesting plot.

>>4683634
They're two entirely different distinctions. Genre fiction is meant to signify the opposite to what Harold Bloom fans would typically call "literature", where "literature" is intellectual and good and all that crap and "genre" is pulpy stupid shit. Typically fantasy is considered genre fiction, but LoTR and a few others are considered literature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhWeBvgNnIE This video breaks it down pretty good.

I read a shit ton of Lee Child because he's s fun to read

:----)

Anne Rice's vampire chronicles. I can't help but love them even if they spawned the homo-vampire trend.

>>4684163
AH thanks, the first part of that helped quite a bit.

However it seems that video seems to be somewhat counter to what most people on /lit/ argue, which pretty much seems like: if it was written over 100 years ago, it is literature (and therefore good). If it is new and not written by Pynchon, Murakami, and a few others, it is genre (and therefore shit).

Maybe I have understand these people on /lit/ incorrectly or they are simply wanky wannabe professors.

I've been thinking of writing something like this. It's all about Vikings invading a frozen island, claiming all the women, fighting wolves, polar bears, and ice dragons and shit.

>>4684163
What do we call genre fiction that gets canonised, though? There have been Library of America editions of Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, Philip K. Dick, David Goodis and a bunch of noir novels.

If the quality of the writing, or the writing style, is what qualifies writing as 'literature', I'd argue that Chandler and Hammett qualified regardless of what genre they were working in. The two were expert stylists.

>>4682608
Hello, I was head admin at Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki for several years, and I would highly recommend that people do not check out Star Wars literature, as it is generally of very low quality. No, there aren't many exceptions. No, the Thrawn trilogy is not good.

>>4682174
Just make sure you follow the correct reading order.

>>4684519
>No, the Thrawn trilogy is not good
Why not?

>>4684537
It's boring.
They introduce a lot in these three books and do absolutely nothing with it.

>>4684575
Yeah, no one gives a shit what you think, dyke.

>>4684531
Man those covers are a lot better than the US ones.

>>4684519
I guess so. Karen Traviss's stuff is great though.

>>4684577
Nobody cares what you think anon.

While waiting for that anon to answer the other anon, I gave my two bits, seeing as how I read all three of those turkeys

It had none of the action one might expect from a Star Wars story, aside from the death scene at the end. It was a prelude to... maybe nothing, I donno, couldn't stick with it

>>4684643
>Implying I'm going to read that

Just stop coming here and being a shitty feminist. It's not hard! I even promise to not post the SRS irc all over the place if you do.

>>4684643
What SW do you like?

i dont read often and i admit im just visiting /lit/ but i just started this and i enjoy it.

>>4684655
you think you're smart don't you?

>>4684695
plsrespond

>>4684696

>>4684660
I liked the Jedi Academy better that the Zhan (Zahn?) books, but the little incidental tales, From Jabba's Palace, The Cantina, the Bounty Hunters, were all rather cute additions to the SW universe. Never read Rogue Squadron, but I hear they're good.
I liked the Tales of the Jedi comics too, but even they lost me after a while. Just the nature of the biz, with all these talents floating in and out. They really should adopt the Japanese/European method. (end /co/ rant)
I listened to an audio book of The Courtship of Princess Leia. s'okay I guess.

>>4684655
I don't even go into feminism that much. Only when you broken-males from /pol/ come barging in. Fucking sad people, the lot of you.

Im reading republic of thieves then I gotta choose between deadhouse gates, words of radiance or the tawny man trilogy book 2. Holy fuck I cant choose.

>>4684712
deadhouse gates

>>4684712
You read The First Law trilogy yet?
Also, do NOT go from a Scott Lynch novel to a Sanderson novel.
It's like orange juice after toothepaste.

>>4684712
Drop republic and read any of the 3.

>>4684537
I just think they're poorly written and mostly dull outside of the obvious main attraction (Thrawn). I feel that the clone plot (Luuke Skywalker, really.) is extremely uninspired, I dislike the love interest plot line for Luke, and I feel that the Solos are poorly characterized. Of course, most of these complaints can be levied at any Star Wars book. I guess I just don't think it stands out, beyond having one interesting character. If that's the metric by which we judge quality, at least one or two of the New Jedi Order books are at the very least better than Zahn's trilogy.

>>4684575
I thought they did too much with it, but then again I may be more familiar with the later Star Wars works. They keep Mara Jade (Luke's girlfriend) on forever. Forever. I hate her so much. Pellaeon, the Noghri, and even Thrawn himself show up in later works.

>>4684598
I can see why you would have that opinion, but I respectfully disagree.

>>4684655
I identify as a fascist politically, but even I find your comments repulsive and childish. Go shit up some other site, kid.

>>4684730
>Drop republic
Look, I know it's the worst one so far, but the next book is coming out this year, so he might as well finish it.
Also, he should wait on Words of Radiance or he's gonna cringe at how bad the humor and dialogue is compared to Republic

>>4684712
If you've read Gardens of the Moon already, Deadhouse Gates is the natural next step. I read a lot of fantasy, and I can safely say it's one of the most engaging and heartbreaking fantasy novels I have ever read. It's really, really good. Miles above the first entry.

>>4684737
>he's gonna cringe at how bad the humor and dialogue is compared to Republic
>reading Sanderson for humor and dialogue
You're doing it wrong.
Fight scenes and worldbuilding is all you should ever read Sanderson for.

>>4684741
>Fight scenes and worldbuilding is all you should ever read Sanderson for.
I'm trying to read Elantris so I can get into muh Cosmere, but so far (~100 pages in), there are precious few fight scenes and the worldbuilding seems really rather uninspired. Also, there's the dialogue. And the characters.

I'd skip it and go straight to Way of Kings if not for my crippling need to start at the beginning and see things through till the end.

>>4684744
>I'd skip it
Skip it.
Stormlight Archive is basically the only passable thing he has.
I guess Mistborn is ok, as long as you love the Mormon Church.
Just read a Cosmere summary.

>>4684744
Elantis is by far his worst novel. I'd say skip.

>>4682532

Read "The Book of the New Sun". It is a four book series, but each book is super short, all together its only 1000 pages. Each book does have a different theme, and there are big jumps in time in between them. It being four books thus makes sense. Also, its great, probably the best thing I've ever read.

>>4684723
Ive read all abercrombies, rothfuss, martin.

What's /lit/'s opinion about WoT? I started reading because I wanted something that I can read for a long time as a kind of relaxation between serious novels but after I've read the first half of the first book it's not that good, full of clichés and bland characters. Does it get better or should I just drop it?

>>4684960
- I will love it until I die
- The first book, especially the beginning, is not that good or characteristic
- The series as a whole is still really long and not very well paced and not for everyone

Ideally I would say read the next couple books because I think the characters do get more interesting and the setting gets somewhat more original. But the books are quite long, and the series is a pretty substantial time investment, so that's kind of a tough ask.

>>4684960
i didn't like the first book. tried the second but it wasn't any better. i'd recommend the amber books by zelazny. they're entertaining and different from the usual fantasy fare.

>>4684960

Read the first two books, if you're not hooked by then, just leave it. I thought that Eye of the World was nothing special, but The Great Hunt was so much better. Books 2-4 are excellent, 5 is good too, but a bit slow, then from the sixth one it's a snails pace of main characters not doing anything, women talking and being angry and talking and talking and TALKING, and the occasional badass parts which make the books fun.

Even though Sanderson shat up the last three books, I enjoyed the series. I kind of want to reread them but FUCK everything to do with female characters, except Egwene.

>>4684986
>Amber is the one real world, casting infinite reflections of itself - shadow worlds, which can be manipulated by those of royal Amberite blood. But the royal family is torn apart by jealousies and suspicion; the disappearance of the patriarch Oberon has intensified the internal conflict by leaving the throne apparently for grabs; and amnesia has robbed Corwin, Crown Prince of Amber his memory - even the fact that he is rightful heir to the throne.

Is this filled with politics and other things related to court or is the description deceiving? I really liked these themes in ASoIaF, that's why I'm asking.

>>4684964
>>4685001
I guess I will read the first two books then and decide after that. Thanks.

>>4682205
I don't get the whole thing with Twinkies. We don't have them where I am. Some local shop had some imported ones recently and I tried one. They're just a bland and overly-sweet flavoured chunk of not-much. How did they get to be such a pop culture icon?

>>4685009
the nine princes are machiavellian princes: scheming against each other, trying to win the throne.

roger z and grrm were friends actually. i think GoT was strongly influenced by the amber books. there's less about armies and countries. these guys use magic so armies are less important but there are battle scenes and good sword fighting (zelazny was a fencer.)

just read a few chapters of nine princes in amber and you'll see you're in for a great ride.

>>4685001
IMO the best part of the series is from book 3 through 6 or 7. Doesn't get real bad for me until 8.

Also I disagree with you about the female characters but jesus shit I have had that conversation too many times on /lit/. Summary: Elayne sucks, Nynaeve is rad and most of the others are pretty okay.

>>4685009
Amber has a ton of politics IIRC, or at least Machiavellian maneuvering. Although it's been a long time since I read it.

Disgusting pleb thread.
They're actually proud of their stupidity.

>>4685022

I just finished reading Timeline by Crichton and I liked it until they straight up murdered Doringer for literally no fucking reason.

>>4684683
The Culture novels are God tier

>>4682174
You haven't truly experienced genre fiction in all its pulpy glory until you have read an entire series by Lilith Saintcrow

C'mon /lit/ dare you take the Lilith Saintcrow challenge? Could you read an entire series of her novels?

>>4685187
I did, I enjoyed Dante Valentine it was cringe inducing in a few parts but it doesn't compare to that Kim shit that other one was too much.

Also guys, feel free to tell me how much you like my reading list.

>>4685528
Lolita sure looks lonely among all that mediocre genre stuff.

>>4685547
YOU'RE THAT GUY FROM A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT MADE THAT SAME COMMENT

I GOT YOU NOW FAGGET`

>>4684733

Man, I loved the Thrawn Trilogy growing up. For me it was precisely because of the main character. He was not only well-rounded and had an incredibly interesting back story I found myself frequently relating to, but he also commanded his power so well without being a force user, through sheer determined will and self-refined wit. Still my favorite Star Wars book series, though given, it's been ages since I've read it or even heard about it.

On that note, I might've spent a bit too much time on wookieepedia growing up so cheers to you.

>>4685561
Yep, that was me. In all seriousness you have some good genre stuff in there too (TBotNS is genuinely great) but mostly the books on the list are works of escapism. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with reading as pure entertainment, but Lolita is a very different kind of book which is why it strikes me as so out of place.

I'm reading The Prince of Nothing right now, while it started out strong I'm in the second volume now and I'm finding it's not my thing. If the list you provided is representative of what you like then you might want to give it a try.

>>4685707
>I'm reading The Prince of Nothing right now...If the list you provided is representative of what you like then you might want to give it a try.

I read the blurb and I'm not too sure it's to my liking, most of the books there on that list i regret reading.

Some started out good or had good world and character development and somewhere along the line the author got bat shit insane and fucked everything up*cough* Anita Blake *cough*. A lot of the books are hit and miss but I just read them because I'm on a low spell and books that i actually want to read are pushed back.... so I read.

I'll show you all the books that was recommended to me by /lit/ over the years. They are in red. The rest were either uploaded to my tracker or in goodreads recommendation algorithm.

>>4686242
Man.

It's so weird always seeing you around these threads. Do you ever think about that? You and I have been arguing and talking about fantasy, literally, for at least a couple years now (don't remember when you started posting these images but it seems like it's been a while), and the only marker we have of continuing identity is the fact that you keep posting pics of your reading folder. That's it. Isn't that kind of a trip?

>>4682205
>sometimes you just want a goddamn twinkie
I have enough taste to realize they're shit. I could never enjoy a twinkie.

>>4682532
>Just because Tolkien had a hard on for linguistics and anthropology doesn't mean every fantasy story has to be a ten volume tome.
Tolkien was allowed to do what he did (write badly) because he was an expert on mythology and languages. But now every fantasy author thinks that he has to imitate Tolkien even if he doesn't have the talent.

>>4686261
The folder gets bigger every now and again, I'll post an old one to show you I deleted most of the older ones i had, Pic related compare it to the current one in the thread.

And to the "seeing me in these threads" I come to see what there is to read and give my take on books that intersect with what tickles the fancy of the recommendee(is that right?)

To the trip comment... I used to type out or copy and paste all the names of the folders that matched what someone wanted... but that became a chore. Screencapping highlighting what they want and posting it as a pic is far easier, my lazy fag mode is being activated slowly.

>>4686285
>But now every fantasy author thinks that he has to imitate Tolkien even if he doesn't have the talent
This is what pisses me off about /lit/ you guys assume that ALL fantasy authors are using Tolkienesque techniques, or that they are monkeying his books. This just shows that you don't even read the books you ridicule.

You know what I do? When I want to shit on a book? I read it, so when i am shitting on your tastes it's not pulled out of my ass but actual facts that happened in the book.

>>4682174

Except Malazan Book of the Fallen is superbly written.

>>4686374
No it isn't.

>>4682395
LOTR, WoT and cantice for whatever are pretty high-rated here from my observation, but honestly you should first get on the western canon. Also what does the japan entertainment have to do with fantasy?

>>4686577
>Also what does the japan entertainment have to do with fantasy?
Anything Japanese is made up.

>>4686577
Japan makes the best.

The Locke Lamora series is surprisingly good for genre fiction.

>>4686555

Yes it is.

>>4686555
>>4687974
To be fair, it is at the very least above your average fantasy dreck when it comes to prose. The later books especially.

>>4687922
You are hilariously incorrect.

I'm reading those Dark Elf books and I want to kill myself.

>>4686364
I'm currently reading Wheel of Time and it really annoys me how Jordan tries really hard to be Tolkien with made up languages and different cultures and ancient history and fails at everything he tries. It's so pathetic and makes his books worse than they would be otherwise.

>>4688191
There's one fictional language and he doesn't even try to pretend it's a language and not just a handful of phrases he came up with. Most of the ancient history is either directly related to the big-picture setting concepts of the Dragon and the Wheel, or is just fleetingly mentioned to provide an illusion of depth without any attempt at fitting it into a cohesive narrative. So I don't think he's pretending he's Tolkien there.

He does make a lot of different cultures. I don't think it's because of Tolkien, I think he just likes thinking about people operating with different cultural assumptions, but whatever works, I guess. I like it but I could see how someone wouldn't.

>>4688198
We basically see the same things, but you think it's shallow and disjointed on purpose while I think he tried and this is the result of him failing.

Also, fuck every single female character except Min and Birgitte (I'm in book 7 at the moment). They are awful, awful persons.

>>4688208
Nynaeve is secretly rad and I will not compromise on that. Of the others, I honestly think most of the major female characters aren't really that bad. Except Elayne, who is the spawn of the devil. I think a lot of the female characters suffer from getting caught up in dumb plots in the later books in especially annoying ways. And it doesn't help that there are a lot of minor female characters who are really bad. I don't know.

And yeah I am a total stan for this series and I've come to accept that.

>>4685528
>The Mortal Instruments
God, those fucking books. I mean, if you want someone to fuck their brother, do it once, not twice.

I only read genre fiction because I all other literature boring. Am I a pleb /lit/?

pic related it's my favorite series.

Currently reading The Lies of Locke Lamora, so far it hasn't been that impressive but I've heard nothing but praise for it so hopefully it gets better soon.

>>4688244
Yes, you are a pleb of the lowest order.

>>4688467
Well let me be the lone voice you've heard declaring that it's complete shit.

>>4688467
There was a thread on that series here not too long ago, and I remember everyone shitting on it.

>Who else reads flawed, pedestrian, sometimes badly written shit

how can you know how good a book is going to be before you've read it?

I read genre fiction because I would rather read ten pieces of shit to find that one unregarded gem than bore myself silly trying to read 'literature'; I know this sounds a bit fedora, but it's a safe bet that anything approved of by literary critics is dull, pretentious dross.

>>4688495
I've seen this board shit on every fantasy series ever brought up for discussion. It's really not something to write home about.

Here in /lit/ unless it's written by an old dead Russian, it's pleb trash.

>>4688229
I kinda liked it because it was the whole Angels vs Demons shit with some vamps and weres thrown in ... then it became romance shit.. and her fiending for her "brother's" cock.

Instead of ending at the trilogy, when Claire saw all teh dough her shitty teeny romance dragged in... more books followed. I dropped the series, I saw on goodreads a few weeks ago that another one was released this month.

Why would I read to get my fill of kitschy action and adventure? The entire appeal of that kind of stuff is the visuals and the sound. You want to feel it and see it. It's meant for movies and video games. Reading doesn't give me a dynamic sense of action.

>>4688467
It's kinda shitty... I listened to the three books through Audiobooks... so that is probably how I finished them.

They had their downs and ups, the main problem I had with the series was that there was little to no magic, I read fantasy for the magical aspect, what i got was a bunch of thieves plying their trade.

There was some finger dancing here and there but it wasn't any of the protagonists' fingers, but revelations in the third book makes me think things might change.

Also the shitty cussing here and there didn't help it any, it's like the author was raised by strict Christian parents that didn't want him doing anything "overt", so he bleed all the years of frustration and pent up angst into these books in the form of cussing and perverted sexual acts and behaviors.....

I would still read the fourth book when it's released though I've invested too much time into the series to stop and the books in the series average a 3/5 stars each soooooo, if i could read a 2/5 book and still go and read the next book in the series, doing that for a 3/5 is nothing.

>>4688244
>because I all other literature boring.
Maybe you should read more, if that doesn't help go back to school because I think something is wrong.