/lit/ - Literature

>>4622907
it essentially solidified the place of 'the YA novel' in American culture
you probably think it doesn't stand out because you grew up reading YA, which is delightfully ironic

>>4622929
what's "YA"?

>>4622929
Also, Salinger wrote the book for adults.

>so successful and praise

>>4622953
such successful

so praise

lol (doge meme)

>>4622939
Yay Adolescence

>>4622953
>>4622957
just stop

>>4622939
still waiting for an answer

>>4622965
yay adolescence

>>4622907
He rapes his sister, Phoebe.

>>4622947
Did he really? Sauce?

>>4624415
Why does everyone say this? What made you say so? Is this a meme of sorts?

>>4622965
The frog meme is just as bad as the doge meme.

>>4622907
The book came at a time when there was nothing like it. For teens confused about the world there was literally nothing in the media or culture that spoke to / for / with them.

Sallinger spent at least a decade writing and perfecting it for maximum connectivity with reader.

>>4624485

>meme
>not realising that frog is one the most effective communicators of the human condition ever created

>>4624485
>Come to 4chan to bitch about images
>>4625039
>neither of you even know Pepe the piss frog's name

reddit pls

>>4624481
>Why does everyone say this?
Because he does. Closely read the text.

>What made you say so?
I'm sick of people discussing this book without having closely read the text. If people can't see him raping Phoebe, then they certainly haven't read through the unreliable narrator.

>>4625512

>Because he does. Closely read the text.

No he doesn't you fuck. Stop banging on about the unreliable narrator when all you're doing is taking the phrase 'I saw Phoebe off' way out of context.

>>4622907

It's a book about a teenage shithead that brilliantly captures the essence of being a teenage shithead.

>>4625890
combray captures that way better

>>4622939
It means Young Adult

>>4624507
Exactly this

It doesn't seem so crazy now. Imagine your dad reading it when he was your age (minus a few years). The book leaves a powerful impression on people because it is so well written

/Lit/, I love you. Never change. Or do. I'm not the boss of you.

OP is a phony.

It's an evocative, emotional piece about the loss of love and innocence in death. It's easily one of the most subtle, profound human tragedies ever written. Holden Caulfield's characterization is flawless and the novel's tonality nears perfection.

Salinger thought it would be easy. He thought America was 'good,' and he would just go and defeat the bad guys. Nothing prepared him for the limbs that would rip from his platoon, the thick red blood of his friends that would stick to his eyeballs and blind him, the nights spent shaking and crying after sticking his finger into someone's bullet hole to prevent the bleeding only to have the guy die while his fingers were still inside his chest.

>>4626201

Salinger didn't just get PTSD when he returned, he had depression and a misanthropic outlook. He was traumatised by how such seemingly innocent children could turn into such adult monsters that were capable of burning women and children alive. He said 'the sound of a burning child's screams will never leave my ears.' He had to integrate back into society, but couldn't do it. He couldn't sit back and worry about celebrity culture, the charade of politics, or other distractions that seemed forever trivial to him. So he started writing.

His first piece was about a suicide. This, he said, was expressing his own desire to kill himself, but writing it down was a way of coping. He never managed to tackle his disenfranchisement and growing resentment towards society, so create the ultimate character to express himself; Holden Caulfield.

>>4626201
>>4626204

Holden was the child of innocence, free from the burden of seeing war atrocities, yet possessed the adult view that Salinger had. To the average, popular media-consuming, modern child, Holden's going to appear 'edgy' at a surface glance. But he really shouldn't to someone who understands that he's not supposed to be a normal child; he's one who carries the emotional baggage of someone who has seen too much horror and pain, yet has the child-like innocence to not understand where his outlook comes from. He's supposed to encapsulate two extremes, and does so perfectly.

So the shit about where all the ducks go in winter, was that some kind of symbolism?
I'm quite illiterate

>>4626555
Yeah. The whole book is about transition into adulthood and existential angst in adolescence.

Where do the ducks go = where do all the kids go

>>4622907
What, exactly, are your credentials as a literary critic?

>>4624474
how recently have you read the book?

>>4625808
I guess you don't give a girl the time, hands so sweaty, never happened with Jane, when perverted things happen, about twenty times, he called her up, where do the ducks go in winter.

p.s.: His mother bought him the wrong kind of skates to go skating with Phoebe.

>>4626555
>>4626701
If you knew anything about Western mythology, you'd know that birds are produced by ponds. They go down, under the ice.

Also, his parents were out, and his girlfriend wouldn't see him that evening. Maybe Phoebe can be his girlfriend this evening.

>>4625512
>>4625808
no offense, but you do realize that none of this ever happened in 'realityland', right? All you have are the words of the text - that is all (esp. since Salinger is a recluse). You can compulsively and neurotically speculate about this all day long and you will never agree, nor will you come any closer to the 'truth' of the matter, because that 'truth' doesn't simply exist. Now, if you truly enjoy having this conversation, then, by all means, knock yourself out - though, I would politely suggest that you should question why you might enjoy this, when tens of thousands of years of evolution have trained you to run and play and use 'reason' instrumentally, to solve practical problems of daily living.

It's conversations like this that make me want the revolution even more than hick fascists or the suffering of the poor - its almost bourgeois decadence, purely distilled.

>>4625983
>>4622907
As with most existential literature, I simply found its treatment of the subjective impressions of the protagonist, as well as its relaxed composition, to be a breath of fresh air from the unwieldy prose of traditional writers like Dickens.

>>4628277
>no offense, but you do realize that none of this ever happened in 'realityland', right? All you have are the words of the text - that is all (esp. since Salinger is a recluse). You can compulsively and neurotically speculate about this all day long and you will never agree, nor will you come any closer to the 'truth' of the matter, because that 'truth' doesn't simply exist. Now, if you truly enjoy having this conversation, then, by all means, knock yourself out - though, I would politely suggest that you should question why you might enjoy this, when tens of thousands of years of evolution have trained you to run and play and use 'reason' instrumentally, to solve practical problems of daily living.

New Criticism or basic hermeneutics gives me the tools to demonstrate my assertion, as we did in a previous thread by close reference to the text using basic advanced reading skills: he diddles his sister.

>It's conversations like this that make me want the revolution even more than hick fascists or the suffering of the poor - its almost bourgeois decadence, purely distilled.

You might want to read Lukacs, Benjamin, Orwell and Koestler on literary criticism, because you're detesting an essential humanity.

>>4628277
>If you seriously enjoy having this conversation, then, by all means, knock yourself out

I do. That's why I came here, to this literature forum. To discuss literature.

>to solve practical problems of daily living

Not all of us live in a poverty stricken, third world shanty town. I run everyday to stay in shape, when I'm hungry I go to the shop to buy food. If you do it right, life isnt one long game of tetris.

>>4628520
mfw believes in 'essential humanity'

>>4628642
>Not all of us live in a poverty stricken, third world shanty town. I run everyday to stay in shape, when I'm hungry I go to the shop to buy food. If you do it right, life isnt one long game of tetris.
While I don't necessarily disagree with this, I am a bit taken aback by your disinterest in the dynamics of global capitalist oppression, and how you benefit (directly or indirectly) from it.

but, hey, i'm not here to judge. I'm not one of these 'you're part of the solution or part of the problem'-type people, though I'd like you to be a little more 'part of the solution', so to speak.

>>4628671
> disinterest in the dynamics of global capitalist oppression

I agree that things could be much better, could also be a lot worse though, and I'm not prepared to get blasted by water-canons to create a shift in either direction.

>>4628671
>mfw believes in 'essential humanity'
Show me your "master signifier" Althusser; because the essence of humanity is the transcendence in history of the proletariat of all prior forms.

It is in Nagy's _New Course_ by the way.

I liked Bridge to Terabithia more.

>>4626210
Thanks for that. I can't stand being around these other posts, but thanks.

>>4630898
He molested her, man. He done done it.

>>4630911
Really!? Man, I had no idea! That actually makes a lot of sense, really brings the whole book together.