/lit/ - Literature

>>4610440
>catholic of good standing(more for cultural and familial reasons than dogmatic ones)
This is a contradiction.

>I've been considering becoming a novitiate in a Cistercian Trappist or Benedictine monastery, for a few years of quietude and reading.
It's a monastery, not a resort.

I would, but they make you go to religious ceremonies and strongly urge you not to beat off. It'd be like living with my mother again, so no thanks.

>>4610440
Posted this before and I'll post it again. Want to do the whole Des Esseintes thing on a low budget? Go to Asia (not Japan unless you have real qualifications.)

Shanghai:
Hotel: 100RMB/night
Renting: considerably lower.
(Chinese) dinner in a restaurant: 30RMB
Home cooking: considerably lower.

1 hour's english conversation practice in a cafe: 150RMB to 200RMB, maybe higher if you get the right mark. This is freelance tutoring; you'd set your own hours and find your own clients.

1 hour's wage in a school: definitely higher.

Employer: Do you have a degree and teaching qualifications?
Gwailou: Oh, of course, I just left them in my home country and have no proof that they exist.
Employer: Oh, no problem, we believe you, the main thing is that you're white!

My primary desire when dressed for Mortal Kombat cosplay is to sit at my desk with a book and have a mate take a picture.

I would advise against it unless you are also a believer in the religious sense.

>>4610446

>This is a contradiction.

Welcome to institutionalised religion.

>>4610446

Good standing means I've completed my sacraments, nothing more. I'm not a fedora, I just don't go to mass every Sunday.

I am fully aware of the work that comes with being a monk. I would find it, and the vows of poverty and chastity that come with it, to be very helpful in clearing my mind.

>>4610473
>Des Esseintes thing
What's that?

>>4610493


Bohemian hermitage, basically.

>>4610489
I did something similar for 2 years 2 months and 3 days. I would highly recommend it, though it was forced on me by a federal judge. It certainly gives you an ability to step back and observe western society as an objective outsider.

>>4610489

The vow of poverty seems admirable but why would you opt for chastity? Why would you rule out the possibility of ever having a partner in your life? Not hating, genuinely curious.

>>4610489

wwhy not just become a wandering vagabond a la Diogenes of Sinope

>>4610504
Not that guy, but I'm assuming both vows are only effective while you in the monastery.

>>4610503
Just to be clear here, you're talking about being in prison, right?

>>4610510

ur a sharp 1 m8

>>4610503
Why did you go to prison?

>>4610489
If you don't go to mass every Sunday without very good reason you're deliberately going against what it means to be a Catholic. If you can't even be a proper lay Catholic don't bother about the monastery. You can't drag your ass to church once a week, but you want to live like a monk? Do you have any idea what kind of daily schedule those guys have? Do you know how much discipline and perseverance it takes? This isn't some cultural Catholic social event, it's serious devotion to God, every day, the whole day. Even the most devout people you'll meet mostly aren't cut out for the monastic life. You're approaching it from egotistical, selfish reasons as well. Do you even know what those vows entail? A life of service to God to help you clear your mind? A few years of quietude and reading? Nigga please.

>>4610504

In most orders, both vows are prerequisite. It's not permanent if you complete a term as a novitiate, and you can still technically leave whenever, although you'd be breaking your more permanent vows.

Honestly? I've had relationships, a few of which were great, but I've lost the craving for female companionship that accompanied my teen years and early adulthood.


I think maybe this sort of life, rendered down to the basics, would be very beneficial to someone with an open mind.

Granted, the hymnals and stuff could get potentially grating, but I feel they'd be worth partaking in at least for awhile, and maybe I would learn to enjoy them in a therapeutic manner, akin to reading Homer.

>>4610517
Unauthorized access to a protected computer with intent to defraud and disruption of an infrastructure critical to national security.

>>4610497
Wouldn't going abroad and working be against the whole À rebours thing? You'd be better off going on welfare.

>>4610526
I'm calling bullshit.

>>4610520

It's more than being a cultural Catholic. Aside from sex out of wedlock and not refgularly attending Sunday mass, I have lived a structured and orderly life completely in accord with Catholic doctrine, and my faith has never been dissipated, only bolstered at times with philosophy. It's not a matter of fleeing public life merely for my own gains, but a new experience in which I can be of more use both to the Church and myself.

>>4610536
The central question is whether you're willing to spend the preponderance of your time doing basically religious things.

If you're not, don't be a monk.

>>4610536
How do you do all those other things and deliberately forgo the very serious duty of going to mass? Your type of hypocrisy seems strange. Most hypocrites forgo the other half.

>>4610535
I just got off house arrest on the 14th. I've posted timestamps before with rolexes and my paperwork.

>>4610541

I come from the Philadelphia Archdiocese. Does that explain it enough for you?

if there was such a thing as a secular monastic order, dedicated to asceticism and knowledge and literature and art, hell yes you can bet I'd join

What does a monk even do all day besides pray and take turns doing chores?

Why not just pull a Buddha and sit under a tree until you can't take the boredom anymore? If you can last more than a day without any outside stimulation than at least you know you can make it as a monk.

>>4610522

>Honestly? I've had relationships, a few of which were great, but I've lost the craving for female companionship that accompanied my teen years and early adulthood.
>I think maybe this sort of life, rendered down to the basics, would be very beneficial to someone with an open mind.

This sounds more like limp resignation than any kind of monastic fervency.

It might not be and you might have a sincere conviction, but I feel compelled to at least say that you should really think this over.

Choosing chastity to bring yourself closer to God is definitely a sacrifice worthy of respect in my eyes, but personally if I were to continue living my life knowing that the possibility of romance and intimacy with another human soul who lives as I live and subsists within the struggle as I do was officially out of the question I would probably go postal and start an incident that would make prime time news.

But if this is your sincere conviction then power to you m8. Just think it over.

I've been heavily interested in religious thought for a good part of my life, having had religious episodes as a child which left imprints on me, forcing me to always carry the idea in the back of my mind. Joining a christian order has crossed my mind, but these days I've been thinking of going to the Middle East or Eastern Europe and joining a Sufi order and becoming a devout Muslim, considering I have Islamic heritage. If all that fails, I'll just become a Nazirite or a wandering dervish and be done with it.

As for vows to chastity and poverty, they're mainly to void your mind of all worries I believe, and the need for a teacher within an organised order is present because detaching yourself from any self-motivated goals is a must. That's my take on it.

>>4610544
No, I'm not American. Please explain.

But really, everything about you screams not cut out of the monastic life.

>Granted, the hymnals and stuff could get potentially grating, but I feel they'd be worth partaking in at least for awhile, and maybe I would learn to enjoy them in a therapeutic manner, akin to reading Homer.
The monastic life is specifically designed around those things. They should be what you want to devote your life to. Not for 'a while' and not in a 'therapeutic manner', and certainly, above all, not akin to 'reading Homer'.

>>4610529
On a budget, I meant. You can't sit back and drain the family fortune like Des Esseintes, but freelance tutoring in China, you could conceivably work for one day a week and kick it the other six. Good enough.

>>4610544
Ah. That makes more sense.

>>4610556
Could be wrong but I would assume that he's referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_the_Catholic_archdiocese_of_Philadelphia

I would still spend a lot more time reflecting on it, OP. But if it's something that you're committed to, and if you believe that you can live a life that is fundamentally structured around religious practice, maybe it is the right choice for you.

>>4610556

The Philadelphia Archdiocese was one of the primary regions where paedophilia become a serious issue.

When this happened, my family, who had until that time been devout, stopped financially supporting the local church. I and those in my generation were raised with the proper Catholic mores, but our churchgoing was extremely limited as a result of the charges brought against the Archdiocese.


In short, I was raised to live life more in keeping with doctrine to make up for not attending church regularly.

>>4610564

How easy is it to get weed in China? I know they execute major drug traffickers every now and again, but is it possible to just buy shit on the street?

>>4610574

>How easy is it to get weed in China?

LOL, good luck.

>>4610574
No idea. But in Hong Kong, shady indians around the Chungking Mansions have offered me hashish (and sometimes coke) roughly a billion times, and cannabis is said to grow in the wild in parts of southwest China.

>>4610526
>Unauthorized access to a protected computer with intent to defraud and disruption of an infrastructure critical to national security.

I seriously wish I could be this cool.

>>4610556

Where are you from? Are you aware of how monastic orders work?

You don't immediately take lifelong vows. You don't even do it for several years. You begin as a novitiate, with all of the expectations of a laybrother, but without taking lifelong vows.

>>4610596
I should add that the whole easymode tutoring thing wouldn't fly in HK. The standards are too high, too many people speak good English.

>>4610564
I'm on (European) welfare and I kick it all day every day. It's seriously the best possible life I can imagine apart from draining a family fortune, I'd recommend it to anyone who is of the idle persuasion.

>>4610604

Yeah, I've been to HK and probably wouldn't go back - certainly not to try and teach. Already too many expats there.

>>4610575
I see, that does seem like quite a serious reason not to attend mass. Although I'm quite sure the Church wouldn't consider it a valid one.

Do you have those little lay retreats in the States? Here there are specific programs for lay people to go into things like week-long retreats I believe, where they participate in monastic life to a degree. Would be a good way to get your first taste of it. Still, monastic life is no joke. You have to be a very particular type of person to even stand it, let alone enjoy it. Have you looked into their daily routines?

>>4610606
How easy is it to get on? In particular, how easy is it if you're a foreign EU citizen in whatever country?

>>4610440
I didn't take a vow but I ended up living like a monk anyway for whatever reason.

>>4610622

There is a Strict Observance Trappist monastery nearby that offers observations for those who are unsure.

I am considering doing it for a few days, to see if it's for me.

>>4610628
what do you mean exactly by living like a monk?

>>4610625
Here you're entitled to money if you don't have an income and you're poor enough. It's as simple as that. Of course there are obligations that come with that, but those can be quite manageable. Don't know about your second question, I've no experience with it.

It's not a life of luxury and you're basically a trapped second rate citizen, but it sure beats work.

>>4610628
what do you mean exactly by living like a monk?

>>4610655
Not drinking, not smoking, most of the times alone, kinda into meditation, basically don't watch television, I'm reading classics like the bhagavad gita and so on (I'm not into the whole new age crystal stuff though) and I'm writing a little. I'm not a virgin but I kinda got over women, or rather I'm not actively chasing anyone anymore. I'm not even that unhappy actually, but that's different story I suppose.

I went to community college beforehand, did volunteer service for a year and took care of my grandma the last few years until she died. Now I'm looking for a job and I'm trying to work as a evs technican in television. I'm thinking about going back to school on the side, but we'll see what happens.

>>4610652
>It's not a life of luxury and you're basically a trapped second rate citizen, but it sure beats work.

Maybe the work you're eligible to obtain.

>>4610701
No, all work.

>>4610526
lol, no, cp.

I considered joining some Buddhist monastery in Thailand. I could teach them English, IT and Math. Obviously there's a language barrier though.

>>4610741
>cp
>>4613105
>thailand

I often feel this urge. Maybe some day.

>>4610446
>This is a contradiction.

Eat your fedora.

>>4610466
I am laffin.

>>4610544
Hahahahahaha,

>tfw I attended Catholic school in Philadelphia

>>4610440

I've considered joining some kind of ascetic order before. But I prefer a moderately ascetic life which allows me to do something for the community than just isolating myself. Though I do believe in a healthy amount of spiritual retreat from society every now and then.

I'm still trying to uphold the basic lay principles so it would seem silly to try to take too many advanced steps.

>>4610440
Im planning on joining a Zen temple in India. My friend from Columbia went there for research, became good friends with the only active member of the temple (apparently they only send one dude there for a few years and then just switch him out), and was told he could live there for free. He brought me up and the monk said I likewise could come

I also plan on going to Japan to do something similar, but neither of these plans wont be happening at least for one more year.

>>4613675
There's nothing fedora about taking religion seriously instead of taking a half-hearted approach.

>>4610440
I used to have this urge, to leave the social life behind and entirely focus on personal/spiritual development. Its shifted significantly now.

Ive found a school that seems to have a great groundwork for spiritual development while living in the world. It seems to actually direct us to use (well, actually it definitely does) our social living as a segway to realization. To use our distractions, pains, anxieties, hopes, love, relationships, whatever as a means for understanding.

One of their maxims is "to be in the world, but not of it"; and that makes a lot of sense.

>>4614251
don't believe 'em

>>4614251
are you referring to a literal school here

>>4614284
Yes, but not an academic one in the traditional sense.
>>4614277
I believe my own experience.

>>4614309

I've considered it but I don't belong to any faith, nor am I learned in any faith, and I don't know whether or not monasteries allow the faithless to live and serve inside their walls.

What exactly does living a monastery entail? What are the duties? What are the restrictions? I highly doubt anyone's going to let me to read my Lovecraft tales of cosmic horror while taking a break from cleaning the lavatories.

Anyway, the idea is of interest to me, so any information you could provide would be helpful OP.

>>4614309
which cult are you in?

>>4614367
Haha, I've considered that. But Im confident it isn't. It doesn't have the trademarks of a cult.

>>4614444
I'll give you a hint: it incorporates a lot of object-relations theory.

>>4614465
scientology yea

>>4614459
>It doesn't have the trademarks of a cult.
Do they ask for your money in exchange for membership/religious materials, require participation in combat training, or otherwise expect you to devote yourself to an earthly institution rather than a higher power?

It seems attractive at a superficial level, I'd maybe try it out for a few months. But I doubt I can leave behind most of my interests. And like that guy says, I need my porn.

>>4610546
They could also teach you how to write. But I guess that's too difficult for a fedora for you.

Don't they have a trial period in these orders? You could probably lead a monastic life for a while and decide if you seriously want to devote your life to it.

jesus was wrong therefore monastic order is fake bullshit and probably full of either hipsters or total losers.

>>4615667

>>4615669
fuck off. i thought long and hard about this. i'm not a fucking atheist.

>>4615672
>I thought long and hard about this
Clearly that makes monks hipster losers and you the intelligent one then. Excuse me.

>>4615677
i am more intelligent than them, but i derive no pleasure from this fact.

>>4615679
What makes you more intelligent?

Isn't the ideal that's being held up here more in line with an artist's colony? Or a commune of some sort?

OP, just kill yourself and make it look like an accident, because that way you'll help keep food and other necessity costs low. Not by much, but you don't value your life so it would be a nice way of giving it some meaning. You would do net harm by being a monastic.

Or fucking grow a pair.

>>4615938

don't make me tell your mother that you're fighting on the internet again

she warned you about this

Do you guys even Pachomius?