/lit/ - Literature

>>4590215
It is a lot scarier than what you make it out to be. What do when existence is separate from myself? I want to control the sun's orbit, yo, but it burns my hand. Quite a conundrum.

>>4590218

>>4590218
>I want to control the sun's orbit, yo, but it burns my hand.
What the fuck does that even mean? I mean, I assume it's a metaphor, but for what?

>>4590260
>I want all the world to conspire to make me happy, or if that is impossible, I want to be able to control the world to the extent that it makes me happy, which I illustrate with the absurd metaphor of arresting the sun's path across the sky because I'm not done tanning.

>>4590292
You can control the world enough to make yourself happy.

The only power you need, your power to choose (and even if you're tied up in a dungeon you can still choose how to view the situation) is enough to be happy.

Read the Stoics.

>>4590215
>There are people on /lit/ RIGHT NOW who have 'had' an 'existential crisis' but not an epistemological crisis

>>4590300
>You can control the world enough to make yourself happy.

>>4590301
I've had an epistemological crisis. In it right now.
>tfw the world is inherently unintelligible
>tfw you could be like the dinosaurs before the meteors and you would have no way of knowing
>TFW
I feel you mickey

>>4590215
>Asserting less than honest reasons to cover up the true reason for embarking on journey, which is to enjoy long-term travel and to have sex with foreigners.

Thus, is why.

>>4590301
epistomological crises are a lot scarier imo. There are at least answers to existentialism that can satisfy most people. Question your own thoughts, perception and reasoning is a more harrowing endeavor.

>>4590310
>>4590301
epistemological crises are extremely simple and easy to overcome. So, you can't know anything outside of your rational mind. Big whoop, now go make a sandwich. Call me when we can't rely on science to help perfect our experience in the physical world

>>4590312
Not really. What to do is alot more scary a proposition that what I cannot do. I certainly cannot fly to the moon, great, now I have one less thing on the bucket list. What SHOULD I do? Well, I have no fucking clue, so I'll go to work and school and read and hope I formulate a picture

Right now I feel making myself and others around me happy is a good choice

>>4590305

That anon is correct. There is no objective world, everything is distorted by your perception. No matter the situation, you can control your perception enough to feel happy.

>>4590215
>tfw you don't feel an alien to the universe, but rather an essential part of it because you're made out of the stuff of the cosmos and are the product of billions of years of evolution

It's so simple, yet people feel still like the universe is their enemy that's trying to kill them. Enjoy the ride while it lasts (or complain about the hardships of life on the internet). Death isn't even bad because you won't be alive to experience it. Epicurus taught us that a few thousand of year ago. You come from nothing and you're going back to nothing, so what have you lost? Nothing! Nerds.

>>4590318
Then the idea he means to communicate is CHANGE YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD, not LITERALLY ALTER IT

Also, you can literally alter the world, physically speaking, to make you happier

>>4590313
i never said they weren't 'easy to overcome' i just find it extremely plebby for people to have a crisis about their own life but not their own thinking. its really disgusting now the more i dwell on it

>no ontological crises either

>>4590342
How is that disgusting? Why are you repulsed by reality? You maybe need to take time to think about your attitude and mental abusement of these individuals.

>>4590331
Your perception is part of the world, anon.

>tfw took a class on Existentialism in college
>tfw it was just a bunch of bullshit delineations and "here's the probable ontology" of ideas you'd held for forever thanks to having read extensively
>tfw it renewed your original existential crisis at a key moment and made you horribly self-conscious and you goaded yourself into destroying your first positive romantic relationship in a long time thanks to mistrust, faulty analysis, and developing alcohol dependency
>Usurper.

itt: omg so stoicism so awesome~! i have no idea what pain and suffering mean because i am a privileged white kid but, imo, all you need is a new perspective to be happy. even ppl in jail can be happy, even if the're being tortured, cus liek mind over matter, gaiz, the only person who can make you unhappy is you

>>4590324

You're a stupid fuck, and I hope you realise this before it's too late.

>>4590538

itp: I need to be happy at all times and all my whims need to be satisfied for the world to matter.

Retard.

>>4590324
You're a dumb fuck, holy shit.

>>4590318
>That anon is correct. There is no objective world, everything is distorted by your perception. No matter the situation, you can control your perception enough to feel happy.

How does one 'control' their perception? I mean, it's one thing to understand the concept, but is anyone really capable of choosing how they view things? Are we not influenced?

>>4590318
So, drugs?

Because people aren't given a religious education anymore.
They are told that all truth and all culture is relative, and "existential crisis" is a natural reaction to that.

>>4590538

durr hurr im gay and cant tell my mom and i am compelled to suck dick by the all corrupting fagforce but my mom and want to dress as a girl but meanys called me faget

>>4590215
because we spend so much time telling white people that the universe does revolve around them and their immediate pleasure

>>4590967
Are both necessary?

>>4591457

yea

>>4591370

Because people aren't working hard enough. They have too much time to think nowadays. Existential crisis are the fuel for a better future. It's what propels us to "do something about it" and demand something of life.

>>4590215

You don't have your own world, OP? No mind palace? No incredible and delusional hermeneutic skill? I pity you.

>>4592178

>Implying I don't
>Implying my tulpa doesn't live there organizing all of my thoughts giving me photographic memory

i'm a nigger

>>4592195

Oh, so you weren't speaking of yourself?

>Realize all of reality doesn't revolve around you and your immediate pleasure
It doesn't? Oh well, I'll keep acting like it does because that's immediately pleasurable.

>>4592218

Nope.

>>4592231

So who are you skeaping of... Or rather, who do you think you are speaking of?

>>4592237
>skeaping
Nice one genius.

Speaking of. You, of course.

>>4592243
Oh!

So it turns out you DO have a delusional hermeneutic skill.

>>4592237
or rather... I am speaking uv... myself?

of course I am!!!! and yet, rahter... have you ever coutn??

I was very fond of reading and I was reasonably capable from a young age, at around 7-8 I was reading chapter-books though my comprehension may have been limited.

Around 10 I indulged a curiosity for fantastic writings and historical books, A biography of Julius Caesar, the Ulster cycle the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey" , stand out in my memory.

In my early teens I began to search out "classics" believing that they held some great knowledge of the past. Plato: "Republic" and "Dialogues" Machiavelli: "The Prince" etc. Philosophical works that I thought might reveal their secrets to me.

When I was young I could escape the real world when reading a book, imagining clashes between great armies, heroes battling creatures of myth and wondering to myself what the world was like hundreds or thousands of years ago. Much more interesting stuff than the drab and often harsh reality of youth.

As I grew older books began to take on a different meaning to me I indulged in fiction more frequently, trying to understand the lives of the characters on the page. I saw books as the only way to communicate with the past, A man created something, expressed the product of his own mind, and I could try and see the world as he saw it, imagine a different mind than my own.

my point, is I like books.

>>4592246

lel
11/10

>>4592237

Any one that comes on /lit/ (or any where else) and says they are going to a philosophical crisis, or pretentious reductionist. I think you're kind of stupid so this seems to have flown right over you. No need keep replying and try to establish yourself.

>>4592252

>pretentious reductionist
Yup, this seems like a fine description of your statement.

>I think you're kind of stupid
Why the gratis insult?

>>4590301
Actually just got "A Guide to the Good Life" by William B. Irvine, which is about Stoicism. Haven't started it yet, want to finish Lolita first.

I'm interested in this because I realize happiness is nothing more than a perception of your situation which stimulates a release of chemicals in your brain which simulates a perceived feeling of happiness.
Of course you cannot hedonistically have this feeling all the time, as I believe that experiencing pain and hardship help you grow as a human being

>>4590342
they don't have enough humility to question their own thinking, everyone with some basic culture is so fuckin full of himself, their pride can't allow them to think even for a second their perception may be flawed and relative. It's like their mind is surrounded by an indestructible wall of shit.

Even the most basic notion of philosophy "All I know is that I know nothing" is lightyears away from them.

what if everyone dies every second but we enter a dream state where time continues on from the point of death and we just live forever?

>>4590553
>>4590929
These are your anxious, depressed, scared minds talking, fellas. If I were actually stupid, you'd have refuted anything I said! Be free! Realize that suffering isn't bad and death is nothing to be afraid of!

I made fun of existential crises two years ago you little shit.

>>4592701
I take it you've never seen The Simpsons, then.

>>4590538
>Implying inumeral amounts of people who have experienced "real pain" haven't come to the same conclusion

>>4592700

>Refute your moronic rambling

You clearly feel as though you are informed or enlightened because of your "epiphanies" or what ever they are, but please, understand now, for your own good, you sound like a complete dumb ass.

>>4592754
If I had any epiphanies, they were years ago, when I was a teen. The problem with you and people like you (don't worry, though, there are many great intellectuals in this group) is that you're unwilling to accept all of the simple answers that would alleviate all of these horrible miseries that have sprouted from your "existential crises". Answers, if you even believe in such things, must, for you, be complex and profound. In reality some sunlight, exercise, and more socialization is all you need. If you ever mature enough to figure this out for yourself, you'll understand just how right I am.

>>4592775
>>4592700
Does that necessitate teleological security for yourself?

Do you guys ever feel kind of disconnected from your surroundings, almost like you are in a dream or something? I was in a store yesterday, and I just all of a sudden felt like I wasn't really there, I felt kind of dull and yea, disconnected.

>>4592775

First of all, I'm op, and I am casting aside all "crisis" of that nature as insipid, so you are confused and mistaken in targeting me with your drivel, which is not surprising from someone of your apparent mental prowess.

Secondly: You're insisting that you have to provide answers to yourself that are "complex and profound" for the SAKE of being so, which is so stupid I am astonished you could even say this. Even more so, because people go through philosophical crises because of profound and complex conclusions, which may or may not lend themselves to truth.

Lastly, even I understand that philosophical crisis are not tantamount to depression, or being sad you aren't getting laid.


Stop posting, you are actually embarrassing.

>>4593654
>which is not surprising from someone of your apparent mental prowess

Ad hominem. Content-less argument. Argument ignored.

>You're insisting that you have to provide answers to yourself that are "complex and profound" for the sake of being so

No, I was saying that that's why you disregard my simpler answers. I accept the answers that work for me, in whichever form they appear, simple or complex.

>Lastly, even I understand that philosophical crisis (you meant crises -- it's plural) are not tantamount to depression, or being sad you aren't getting laid.

A depressed person, a sad person, a person who is, for one reason or another, in a weakened state let's these philosophical ideas turn into crises. It seems, considering your style of rhetoric and the average age on here, that you must be younger, and with that youth you're more prone to myopia. So, with that said, I can forgive you for not thinking this through all the way. Trust me, though. If you're psychologically healthy, the ideas that, for some, lead to existential crises won't have a major impact on you.

>>4593060

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization_disorder

There is type of existence where existential crises will be a myth a myth because there will be no concept of "you" for the world to evolve around.

Try to search for that

>>4590409
>Usurper
You're not Stephen Dedalus. Romanticism is horrible anyway.

Threads like this are great.

>tfw you're not sure if your inability to take yourself serious enough so that you become suicidally depressed is a good thing or whether it's your ego preventing you from becoming truly patrician

>>4590215
>Realize all of reality doesn't revolve around you and your immediate pleasure

But that's wrong you retard. I realised that my hard work and success means shit.

>>4594312
Until you achieve your success, then you'll understand what "fleeting sensation" means.

>>4590941
Read the Stoics.

>>4590324
>hedonism rather than a life of virtue
Why are Epicureans such wusses?

>>4594621
Epicureans were not hedonists.

Epicurus had an immature philosophy anyway, so it doesn't matter

>>4594641
>Epicureans were not hedonists.
They were, for the original meaning of the word.

They valued optimizing personal pleasure relative to pain. They just thought the best way to do this was to live a calm, quiet life, work part-time to make ends meet, kick back, have a few beers with your buds, and not worry about shit.

"Negative hedonism" instead of "positive hedonism." It centers around reducing desires rather than increasing total pleasures, because there's much more pain involved in, say, trying to become rich and famous than just being content, and there's much more risk of loss, and basically there's likely more pain than pleasure in it.

>>4594621
>>4594641
>Virtue
It is a virtuous philosophy. It's not all about your own pleasures. There's nothing better for your own wellbeing than to extend an ethical-hedonist hand to all others. I disagree somewhat with the Epicurean avoidance of politics, but you can't blame a person for wanting to avoid that mess.
>Immature
It's a philosophy of facts, substance and joy. You're thinking of Cyrenaicism. Baby-epicureanism.
>Wusses
And a proper philosophy to you would be one of violence?

>>4594863
I'll disregard the immature bit since that wasn't me.

>Virtue
Virtue is the utmost good. Pleasure is secondary. True happiness/flourishing (eudaimonia) comes from the cultivation of virtue above all else, accepting and appreciating pain and pleasure alike as logical outcomes of the events that precede them.
>Wusses
It wasn't a matter of peace vs. violence so much as recoiling from the prospect of pain as if pain is the ultimate evil.

>>4594863
>It's a philosophy of facts
LOL

>>4594879
Some pains/bad things, that one can learn from (IE avoid) is fine. Very instructive.
Other forms come to us no matter what, obviously. Old age. It is all in how we take it. A hurtful comment doesn't mean shit if you know how to handle it.
Epicurus was most unadventurous regarding politics. (Good Epictetus quote)

>>4594902
Meaning it embraces scientific explanations.

>>4594915
I find the kind of people Epicurus was suggesting others be to be perfectly respectable, fine people to be around. My problems lie in the fundamental "pleasure is the ultimate good and pain is the ultimate bad" thing and in the fact that I think it's easy as a follower of Epicurus to slowly slip into YOLO-style "mindless hedonism." As far as I can tell, there is also no room in Epicurean philosophy for heroic self-sacrifice, as other things only matter insofar as they help you avoid pain and gain pleasure.

>>4594937
>I think it's easy as a follower of Epicurus to slowly slip into YOLO-style "mindless hedonism."
Which will bring one some pains. Seems natural enough. Just beware that some "YOLO" could bring a broken leg or even early death
>As far as I can tell, there is also no room in Epicurean philosophy for heroic self-sacrifice, as other things only matter insofar as they help you avoid pain and gain pleasure.
Similarly with heroics. A very satisfying source of pleasure in my opinion, but also a potential source of broken limbs or early death. I'm not a doctrinarian Epicurean. I see it as a guide. A pirates code perhaps.

>>4593686

>Ad hominem. Content-less argument. Argument ignored.

Inclusion of insult doesn't invalidate statement, and you clearly didn't ignore it at all retard.

>I was saying that that's why you disregard my simpler answers. I accept the answers that work for me

Okay, people should make up anything that fancies them to be happy. Okay. There's nothing to say about this, other than it has no reason to be said in this discussion.


>A depressed person, a sad person, a person who is, for one reason or another, in a weakened state let's these philosophical ideas turn into crises. It seems, considering your style of rhetoric and the average age on here, that you must be younger, and with that youth you're more prone to myopia. So, with that said, I can forgive you for not thinking this through all the way. Trust me, though. If you're psychologically healthy, the ideas that, for some, lead to existential crises won't have a major impact on you.

Again, a philosophical crisis is not tantamount to depression, being sad, or feeling for yourself. I don't want to waste anymore time on you.

>Realize all of reality revolves around you and your immediate pleasure
>Bang hookers and shoot up that sweet sweet poppy nectar
>Run out of money
>Die

>>4590538
stoicism is proven true by cognitive science

>>4590215
because biology & chance.

kickstarter: unloved.
then the loop: -->pain-->negative thought patterns=existential crisis-->more pain-->∞

the "indifferent" universe is just the scapegoat for sufferers whose ego won't allow them to acknowledge love is necessary.

>>4592274
>I'm interested in this because I realize happiness is nothing more than a perception of your situation which stimulates a release of chemicals in your brain which simulates a perceived feeling of happiness.
>Happiness is nothing more than happiness but I can give it another name, holy shit what crisis

>Of course you cannot hedonistically have this feeling all the time, as I believe that experiencing pain and hardship help you grow as a human being
>grow
>human being

Pls remove yourself from lit.

>>4593060
>>4594286
When I was a kid I used to have a voice in my head that would yell swear words at me and tell me to break things and sometimes I'll walk for several blocks then try to re-trace my steps and not be able to remember where I came from or recognize my surroundings at all. Once I could feel myself floating out of my body and spent several hours watching my life go by while at the same time completely detatched from it as though I was watching a film or the life of another person. Sometimes I'll see the floors and walls ripple or breath. Should I be taking medication or is this just a normal thing people don't talk about?

>>4594305
>>4594305
Its the ego, anything thats stopping you from gaining power is the ego being lazy.

>>4594312
You sound like a lazy faggot who gives up on stuff once it gets too hard and blames the universe.

>>4590538
Yeah, it's not like stoicism was advocated by a former slave who couldn't walk properly or a guy who peacefully walked to his execution with good humor or an emperor who spent every day with the weight of the whole known fucking world on his shoulders.

Oh, wait. It was, and it made them all better people.

Jesus Christ, is everyone on this board an obnoxious, pretentious faggot?

>>4590967
>religious
>education

>>4596590
>>>/n/
>>>/e/
>>>/w/
>>>/f/
>>>/a/
>>>/g/

>>>/g/
>>>/o/

>>4596598

>>4596590
Yes.

Welcome to /lit/.

Now get out.

>>4596596
You don´t have a clue what education means, right?

If you did, you would know that your conviction that false (factually wrong) education is not education at all is derived from the Christian idea of education, the idea that "the truth will set you free".

>>4596678

what if, like , we're all, like....sponges, super intelligent sea sponges whose society has degregated to such an extent that their forced to make a super advanced simulation in their computers in their super advanced sponge cities, and to guarentee that their civilisation continued they've made us in their computer simulation along with trillions of other possibilites?

>>4596728

>>4590215
jokes on you the universe does revolve around you and your immediate pleasures.

>>4596718
[citation needed]

I thought an existential crisis was just a moment when you remember that you and everyone you know is going to die.

>>4596891
This image invokes the feeling I'm talking about.

>>4596896
Whoa! I have more time than I thought. That image makes me happy. :)

>>4596901
Watch out for diseases and automobile accidents on the way! Salute.

>>4596896
mfw cancer

>>4596896
Wow shit

I think I might be having none of those crises right now

Thats a scary ass image.

>>4596767
only corrected answer to this thead but, still, i dont think that alcohol is the answer to the whole of all things

>>4590301
(unironically) thank you for distinguishing concepts I was confused with.

>>4594610
>>4590300

The Stoics: masters of self-deception.

Tell me.
Who needs temperance? He who is prone to wine.
Who needs stoicism? He who is prone to madness.

>>4590311
this guy gets it

>>4597375
You seriously have no idea what you're talking about.

Stoicism is simply the idea that the best way to a good life is through the cultivation of virtue.

Every other stoic idea (at least with regards to ethics) is derived from that.

>>4597375
>implying we're not all prone to madness

>>4597434
HA HA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS!

>>4597439
"Disregard that I suck cocks" or "disregard that, I suck cocks"?

>>4590409
>tfw took existentialism in college
>tfw bunch of reddit-core freshmen spouting their awful opinions that they think are amazing
>tfw my previous existential crises seem stupid in light of how childish all of theirs seem

Not sure if OK with this feel

>>4597434
My guess is it's either Butterfree with her nametag off or it's an undereducated parrot that saw her say the same thing about stoicism and thought it sounded profound.

>>4595973
Something like that happened to me.

One time I was dinning with my family. I looked at my dad's face while he was eating and I thought something like "Woah, that's my dad. My dad is that guy right there and not another guy. He has that face. That's his face". Then I turned to look at my mom and thought "And there's my mom, that's she, it's the mom I have". It was like seeing their faces for the first time and it was weird.

Then it all got more strange. I thought "I am the son of these two. I'm here, watching their faces. And I am me, I have this face. I'm not other guy. I'm just me". I felt out of reality. It was strange that things were the way they were and not different. "I could be any another person, but no, I am me. ¿How is that possible? ¿How does it work?"

>>4597508
Neither of these. I don't even like that guy.
But I do say retarded stuff often, sorry.

>>4597508

my god are you idiots still rambling about epicurus' outdated views
read some contemporary philosophy for fucks sake, specifically fred feldman
or anything on attitudinal hedonism really
deary me

>>4595973
>Should I be taking medication or is this just a normal thing people don't talk about?

I wouldn't describe this as normal.

>>4595575
IT IS PROVED.

>>4597907

works can fight against the tide of time and are thereby valid for all ages to read. if you can't appreciate that, well gtfo of lit/.

>>4598000
epicurus having relevance isnt the same thing as epicurus' doctrines still being held as the standard of hedonistic ideologies as it seems to be on this board (especially among butterfly and her pleb peddling posters)

>>4597568
Gotta be somebody, bro.

>>4598137
Wait, so are there modern philosophers who build on stoicism? Because that, I'd like to read.

I know Daniel C. Russell has a Eudaimonist theory that kind of bridges the gap between Stoicism and Aristotelianism, but that's not quite what I'm looking for.

>>4598154
well once you read contemporary philosophers like feldman it collapses the whole epicurus/stoicism dichotomy into one about propositional attitudes essentially, and so external circumstances and mental attitudes are merely instrumental

>>4590331
But your perception of the world is all you can ever truly know of the world. The two are inseparable

>>4598162
I still deny the claim that good comes purely (or even primarily) from pleasure, including the pleasure derived from a positive attitude.

>>4598198
are you under the assumption that language has one use or something lol

maybe u should read wittgenstein before u read the greeks

>>4598200
Why would I need to read Wittgenstein first? It's not like the Greeks were developing on his ideas.