/lit/ - Literature

>>4595171
Is the psuedo-trendiness a business strategy or a big postmodern middle finger to literary culture? If he's aware of what he's doing it's cool.

never heard of him. i don't entirely hate the idea of implementing fonts into the meaning of poems.

>>4595192
That's actually a pretty good idea. It's going to affect the reader's interpretation either way, you might as well have control over it.

Of course there's a good chance a movement like that would sort of devalue the words themselves for up and coming poets and they'd focus on the shape and font of poems instead.

boost

I want to fill his skull with lead.

>>4595188

I don't know what you mean by psuedo-trendiness but Steve's generally pretty sincere in his positivity and use of internet culture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FA23ZXFzVU

this is my favorite vid from him

He seems like he knows a lot about poetry, and is enthusiastic about what he's doing despite knowing it won't make him rich or famous.

I therefore find no reason to hate him. Plus his videos are pretty interesting and funny at times.

>>4595682
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8F5YSA1Oz0
what I herd.

>>4595661
Because he's putting it into poetry, so things like misspellings and bad grammar are immediately insincere because he's mimicking mistakes.

He is genuinely shitty

>>4595682
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-lHJZR3Gqxm24_Vd_AJ5Yw

His whole channel is great.

I want to fuck him.

>>4595748

so because something's in a poem it can never be sincere

that makes a lot of sense

>>4595806
No, that's not what I mean. You can't put a purposely misspelled word in a poem that doesn't mean anything. Maybe he's trying to mimic mistakes, maybe he's just trying to do something different to be different, maybe it has some other meaning. But you can't purposely put a sincere mistake in a poem. That makes no sense.

He is actually very educated in the history of poetry. He's not an idiot. I'm sure he knows what he's doing, and he's doing it 'carefully.' But I'll still never enjoy his poetry.

>>4595869

His misspellings are for their own sake though. He's adopting the language of his people.

>>4595204

Steve Roggenbuck is a very radical and innovative poet but it's not cuz of font, if you're interested in that look into futurism and vorticism

>>4595875
"Carefully" is the word, he's a Tolle-tier pandering youth minister.

>>4595888
that's pretty patronizing
when did they become his 'people'?
I don't really read modern poetry because I don't like sifting through garbage but I don't think I've seen anything by him anyway
nobody should read poetry to be happy nobody should do anything to be happy

3DEEP4YOU
PATRICIAN LEVEL POET COMING IN
CHECK MY QUOTES
LIVE IS DIFFICULT BUT BEAUTIFUL
I AM A POET BUT I AM NOT ALIEN TO CONTEMPORARY YOUTH CULTURE, LOOK AT ME!

>>4595906

patronizing? lol how?

>nobody should read poetry to be happy nobody should do anything to be happy

non sequitur?

>>4595896
I don't disagree with you. He does have an idea of where his place is in the literary world. And he's very obsessed with keeping his brand.

Poetry's for fagets

>>4595916

3DEEP4YOU
PATRICIAN LEVEL POET COMING IN
CHECK MY QUOTES
LIVE IS DIFFICULT BUT BEAUTIFUL
I AM A POET BUT I AM NOT ALIEN TO DIONYSIAN ORGIASTIC POWER, LOOK AT ME!

>>4595906
Kill yourself. Why do you even lit (inb4 to study the struggles of man and become depressed with things and then make myself a better perso n!! ! ! !

>>4595926
I think he means that we should prevent poetry from becoming yet another tool to foster the plebeian "feel good" hedonistic culture

He's very successful at managing a brand and making money off of disaffected youth who want to be passionate about something in an increasing dispassionate world.

He's very good at convincing people that giving him money to live as a 'poet' and to print stickers and t-shirts promoting him is "fighting oppression" (what the hell does 'anti-oppression even mean? who outside of a cartoon villains are not 'anti-oppression'? thanks steve for taking that courageous stand)

>>4595940
But Nietzsche went to university in a time when a liberal arts degree actually meant something
That guy didnt even finish his bullshit degree lel

>>4595946

Well Steve Roggenbuck seems more like he's trying to make Nietzsche-style carpe diem palatable to the contemporary masses. It's true he focuses on positivity but he's also very into waking people up from the capitalistic haze they're put into to really embrace life.

>>4595959

Nietzsche would probably have a laff at your sniveling at the feet of academia.

>>4595957
>>4595928
"Here’s a story about Steve Roggenbuck: after a reading, at an apartment, someone jumped on Steve’s unattended laptop and posted on his facebook. Ol’ boy discovered what had happened, came severely close to shitting himself, while seizuring, then admonished the person in his shrill voice because his “brand” had been tampered with.

OMG! HIS BRAND…

So, yeah, fuck Steve Roggenbuck. He’s not a person or a poet, he’s a billboard advertising $1 sodas and 100pc nuggets. Why wouldn’t I dislike something like that?

His videos are on par with the shamwow guy: here’s a dude selling a piece of fabric–not even a large piece, just a small one–who knows if he doesn’t fatten the presentation, line the motherfucker with jazz and high-fives, nobody will notice or attribute value to a dumb piece of orange rayon.

If feigned intensity/screaming and mock humanity was purposeful, Wally George would be considered more than what he is. The Roggenbrand is no different."

>>4595957
The spectacle continues its growth, another image substitutes the original in the lives of hundreds, hundreds whose fathers fought for less work hours, only to see their sons so overwhelmed by their freedom that they sell it to the entertainment industry, be it a big multinational corporation making movies, or a pseudopoet selling you authenticity from his laptop

>>4595964
The capitalistic haze is "Embrace life" and "you're special".

>>4595983

>The capitalistic haze is "Embrace life"

>>4595964
>into waking people up from the capitalistic haze

hahahahahaha
we are talking about the same steve roggenbuck, right?

the same steve roggenbuck obsessed with 'boosting' his brand?

He's just another motivational speaker who makes money off making his audience feel good. people like to have their ego fed, and roggenbuck does that in abundance. he's no different

>>4595989
The truth is often absurd and painful

>>4595974
>>4595980

You guys are fucking deluded. Do you seriously think Steve Roggenbuck chose his current lifestyle because he wanted to make money?

>>4595995
No, he's also desperate for attention.

>>4595971
Nietzsche can suck my dick
>>4595964
He doesnt wake them, he is like a mini occupy wall street, he is an event in which revolutionary praxis is sanitized and incorporated into the status quo
We dont need shitty internet personalities with too much charisma and a cliche simplistic worldview
do we really need more echo-chambers?

>>4595964
>capitalistic haze

Uh-huh. The is the guy who recently kickstartered to the tune of, what, 15k? So he could afford a fancy house and all the supplies needed to publish and promote himself?

The only 'capitalistic haze' Roggenbuck wants to wake people up from is the idea that an 'internet poet' can manage a day job while writing 'poetry'

>>4595926
sorry this thread moved faster than I thought
I don't know how Roggenbuck uses language but it's dumb when people flout convention to be more 'accessible' and it feels like someone is putting on an accent and speaking slower and louder and a little more forcefully, self-consciously 'reaching out' to some uncomfortable place where he imagines me to be
I understand why people do it and why people want it done but I don't understand it and I don't want it done
it's a non-sequiter

>>4595941
we should read to live

yeah guys, steve roggenbuck - the dude who releases meme poetry into the public domain and wasted all his money on a communal house - is in it for money. totally.

>>4595995
Yes, he wants capital, not the capital you are used to like paper money or coins, but social capital, more subtle, but still capital

>>4595995
Yes, I do. I'm not saying he did it to become rich or that that's his sole motive, but somewhere along the line he realized that he's pretty good at this whole motivational speaking thing and worked towards promoting that, making that his brand, and making a career out of it. He's been remarkably successful.

Regardless of the guys motives, his poetry fucking blows. It's all just over-the-top confessions of emotion juxtaposed with amusing non-sequitors.

In one of the videos he posted explaining his poetry, he described one line of his poem with "I'm not really sure why I put this in here, but I do know that it came from the heart" That is almost everything wrong with modern poetry in an sentence, and Roggenbuck's relative success feels like the death knell of the artform.

>>4596009
he is greedy as fuck, he is applying consumerist narcissism to poetry
I AM SO GREAT
I FEEL SO GOOD
WHAT SHOULD I DO TO KEEP THIS FEELING ON?

>>4596028
>using the word modern instead of contemporary when discussing lit

>>4596028
dont worry, he will be forgotten soon

>>4596039
consider it a roggenbuckian intentional mistake or something

>>4596043
MISTAKES ARE WHAT MAKE LIFE BEAUTIFUL
1300 retweets

>>4596050
*LIEF

>>4596042
It's win-win though, either the world forgets about him and he goes deep granola or he gets so famous that he crashes and burns spectacularly.

>>4596052
ANOTHER MISTAKE
DANCE WITH ME
EVERYTHING IS SO BEAUTIFUL I WANNA CRY

>>4596054
I can only hope that when it happens I have stopped caring and I remain unaware of either outcome for the rest of my life

so I see now that Roggenbuck is hated by the kinds of people who like to think of themselves as the last defenders of traditional poetry. topkek

>>4596028

wow dude yeah, like fuck these people who think they can just not create poetry like my 12th grade english teacher told me to

Steve Roggenbuck is way more well-read than you, and if you actually read poetry you'd be able to see where he's actually got a lot going on.

And if you were intelligent enough to be aware of your cultural surroundings you'd also be able to appreciate his Lil B "based freestyle" inspired surrealism

>>4596279
im thikning of kising you in a diferent galaxy, but its not vary diferent, mainly the gravity is diferent. i have found a way to kis you that only i have found, and i wil kis you useing that way. i want you on top of pancakes. more pancakes then i have ever wanted a person on top of. i kis you on a pancake pile. damn. i have just spent 45 minutes kising you on top of a pancake. i want to kis you in a way that immediately ends a game of yahtzee. i wana kis you while getting patted on the butt by a coach. i want to be almost kising you, and then be kising you
yes i woudl love to frick u watching i robot, thanks. i want to frick u in a pair of pants that is so bigwe can both fit in the pants. i want to frick u inpetsmart. i want to frick you live on comedy central. weird i found som pants that are the perfect size to frick you in your bed. i want you in your wood sided car the size of a boat. if there is ever 50 of an object in the same place i think about kising you in a pile of them. i want you in a ball pit of n64 game cartridges. i want you deep in the cartridges

>>4595989
It absolutely is. "Individualism" as a concept is so fucking mired in the concept pf "buying up all the shit you like and that makes you feel good," it's inescapable. Most people's personal identities are completely caught up how special they are for belonging to a certain group, and they show that belonging by buying up all the pointless shit they can. The meaning of "embracing life" as taught to us is "having all the pointless shit you can buy."

Being special and happy are capitalist concepts.

>>4596320

dude just because you believe in a shitbrained form of individualism doesn't mean there's actual transcendental/nietzschean individualism that's complete anathema to capitalism. And Steve Roggenbuck is a very clear and conscious descendant of this.

>>4596320

I get what you're saying but the problem is you don't actually know about steve roggenbuck. You're assuming he's any other motivational speaker, where he's obviously far more subtle than that. He is about positivity but he isn't about dumbed down feeling special and good about yourself. In a lot of his videos he actively reminds people they're part of a spectacle that's killing the earth.

>>4595906
>nobody should do anything to be happy
Everything you do is because you want to be happy. It's just that people think this means pleasure/joyful feelings when in reality it's more vague and kind of means "a life worth living" or "meaning."

So life feels empty when you spend it on YOLO-esque braindead hedonist bullshit.

>>4596279
>if you were smart enough, you'd 'get it'

this mentality goes directly against roggenbuck's stated desire to making poetry more conversational, accessible, and relatable

>>4596028
>non-sequitor
Do people do this on purpose or what?

>>4596362
>>4596043
:) just lviing leif bro

>>4596356
>>4596356
>You're assuming he's any other motivational speaker, where he's obviously far more subtle than that

Except he's not. He uses the same feel-good, don't-question-self-worth, facade-of-positivity, getting-pumped-over-nothing-as-long-as-you-say-it-loud-enough mantras that every other self-help speaker and human resources manager uses. He encapsulates it as "poetry" instead of as a seminar, but that doesn't make it any more subtle

>>4596360

Steve's immersing himself into internet culture, and in that way he's presenting himself in a more accessible form. But he isn't more accessible out of simplification. He's merely doing what great poets have done for a while, bringing poetry back to the living language. He just also has the pleasure of bringing it into a living language that is radically changing human consciousness itself.

>>4596399
I guess I'm just a relic of a dead age, then, because I don't think I'll ever be able to accept something like >>4596294 as a worthy example of emergent poetry

>>4595679
>despite knowing it won't make him rich or famous
It may make him both. YouTuber partnership program might be a source of revenue. Trendy teen girls and boys might buy his published poetry and tshirts and posters.

We're talking about Steve so he's already famous.

>>4595895
>look into futurism and vorticism
Tell us more about these.

>>4595995
>Do you seriously think Steve Roggenbuck chose his current lifestyle because he wanted to make money?

Perhaps more for reasons of validation?

>>4596415

well don't most artists seek validation? that seems stupid to say to me

A lot of you seem to have not read any Roggenbuck or even watched many of his videos so much as read a blog post on him and you are now trying to peg him as something he hardly is

>>4596451
>A lot of you seem to have not read any Roggenbuck or even watched many of his videos so much as read a blog post on him and you are now trying to peg him as something he hardly is

is there a name for the logical fallacy of accusing people who disagree with you of vague ignorance rather than challenging specific points because seriously. stop it.

>>4596472

but you're doing the same thing with steve roggenbuck himself?

>>4596472

but the thing is the only thing raised against Steve in this thread is HURR HE IS HAPPY BECAUSE HE'S TRYING TO SELL YOU SOMETHING HE'S AN ATTENTION WHORE

seriously does anyone want to make a stronger point against him than just that? if not then there's nothing to actually discuss

so is this guy the new tao lin?

>>4596483
My point against him is that he should stop advertising his work on 4chan.

>>4596523
He's literally nothing like Tao Lin at all. But yeah, I could see him getting persecuted like him as well.

We can all agree that the negative feelings expressed towards Steve have to do with our own insecurities.

We want to be like Steve.

We are afraid to be like Steve so we discredit him to comfort ourselves.

>>4596531
He's so obsessed with positivity that I thought he'd ever come here.

>>4596565
*doubt

>>4596472

that's not a logical fallacy it's just ignoring someone's argument because you think it's retarded

personification of that one lil b song but with jokes only maybe half of a level better than "ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny"

>>4596390

So all life affirmation is a ploy by artists to make a meager living, that's it right? We should all be pessimists and make ourselves feel bad because the opposite would clearly be manipulating people's emotions!!11!!

god you cunts sound obnoxious

>>4596562

lol @ how hard you're projecting right now

you need a tissue? you seem on the verge of breakdown

look it's cool that he has the nerve to put himself out there and not be afraid of being judged, but the guy just has no talent

you're like those fat vanilla housewives who defend those talentless cunts on the audition gagreels of american idol and shit when they "try for their dreams" but forget that they can't actually fucking sing

>durrr don't make fun of their lack of skill you don't have the courage to get up there and do what they're doing

stop projecting you tearqueen

>>4596483
he is a degenerate artist and promotes spiritual decay

>>4596635
I don't think the post you're responding to was serious, Anonymous.

>>4595906
Tao if you're still in this thread I just wanted to say that I really appreciated Shoplifting From American Apparel, it was really uplifting in a weird way, and so anyways thank you, boost

>>4596660

>spiritual decay

>>4596635

yeah but the thing is that there are plenty of people who know about poetry and agree he has talent

you are the one projecting

you are the one typing out weird fantasies on 4chan

>>4596677

Believe in sincerity.

So I went and watched a few of his videos.

I liked them a lot. They're really subtle and unsubtle at the same time. He's speaking sincerely, and using music normally considered overdramatic and body language associated with someone acting dramatically, but none of it is done ironically, which is weird because he's doing things in a combination that was considered ironic for so long. So he's ironically being unironic.

And anyway, what is there to be mad about? He's very upfront that he's an unusual "poet" and even questions the validity of that title to describe him.

And now I'm wondering about using the internet to self promote. I guess it depends on your target audience, but seriously, wouldn't many past writers have used the internet to spread their shit if it was around then?

>>4596008
>uncomfortable place where he imagines me to be

Tao Lin doesn't write for you.

>>4596720

>I don't actually know what projecting means

>>4596729

Yeah. People seem to be shitting on him because of how he keeps a brand but that is how things are done on the internet, steve is trying to use the whole form to its fullest. People are trying to say he's just doing that to capitalize off it but they're obviously retarded because he releases all his shit to the public domain and wastes his money on shit vegan food.

>thniking there's anything wrong with him making money

The fuck? The fucking dream of most artists and writers is to make money off their work.

>>4596729
The internet/social media is a very important place to promote. Just look at the success of Sorry House. According to an interview with Spencer Madsen I heard recently, he's making a lot of money from just that one Mira Gonzalez book. I believe it. Printing a thousand books for a few dollars each and selling them at 10 - 15 dollars is probably making them a lot of profit. He's going to have a good shot at working for a popular publishing company in the future and he hasn't even gone to college.

>>4596766
No man being a bohemian starving artist no recognition, that's the good life

" . . . now haters have to deal with this fact that they were mean to you and you were nice back . . . "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Hp_jMCbKTU4#t=90

>>4596893
he really does seem to have this idea that people who criticize him and his philosophy are 'haters' doesn't he?

>>4596776
Shit. That's what I was worried about. I would be terrible at self promotion, and not to seem like an asshole but I don't wouldn't want a fanbase built on tumblr, I feel like it would give the wrong impression.

I guess I could hire someone to promote it, but that would cost money I don't have and I feel like, again, promoting virally would devalue the work.

But likely this is the way of the future and in a literature class in 2090 kids will be learning about how literature went through a metamorphosis after the communication revolution, and how the pioneers like Tao Lin and Steve Roggenbuck were inexplicably criticized by the literary establishments of their time, which will seem ridiculous from a 2099 perspective.

>>4596907
It’s very difficult for them to take criticism, and because of that a lot of the content produced is kind of shitty. And when someone is criticized for their content, they seem to collapse, or the person criticizing them is called a hater, a contrarian, a troll.

>>4596907
>>4597084

How can you guys talk out of your ass so hard. The maturity and self-awareness of most of the hate on this thread is about as self-aware and intelligent as a 14 year old talking about classical rock on reddit.

>>4597096

Okay.

>>4595204
>It's going to affect the reader's interpretation either way
You mean those faggots who rage over comic sans aren't pretending to be retarded?

>some days success means just not giving up

thank you based steve

>>4596893
he's talking about online haters though. being nice back online is effortless.

>>4596893
he should read some beckett or something

He's just trite and cringeworthy.
He conflates mawkishness with sincerity, and is just too naive.
He's a degenerate.

>>4598080
he's not naive, he's young. he's a good guy.

>>4598080

>He's a degenerate

>>4598308

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/degeneracy

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/degeneracy

>>4595171
He is the poetry equivalent of tumblr politics and reddit atheism.

>>4598343

how

>>4595787
same

>>4596028
>this is everything wrong with modern poetry
Do you even modern poetry?

Almost nobody's doing anything from the heart any more. We've witnessed the rise of a new formalism since the '70s/'80s. MFA poets write clever, "well-crafted" little artifacts and conceptualists play head games. Totally free intuition and poetic feeling got left behind with the early modernists at the latest.

>>4596729
this is new sincerity

>>4598377

that guy is obviously a 14 year old who thinks the only poetry out now is the stuff he reads on teenage goth's tumblrs

HOW IS HE TWENTY SIX YEARS OLD HE LOOKS ABOUT 18

>>4595906
>>4595983
>>4596033
>>4596660
So what is the deal with all you tough-minded ascetics being regulars on 4chan, the most completely indulgent waste of time on the internet, rather than giving your lives over to something greater?

sounds like you're just proving what Roggenbuck says about having to boost yourself before you can boost others.

>>4598392

a diet of vegan food, no drugs and buckets of semen is known to keep you young

>>4598401
>vegan food
it looks less like it keeps him young and more like it leaves him underdeveloped and malnourished

>>4598408

>underdeveloped and malnourished

that's what's simulating the youthfulness

Steve Roggenbuck would indeed make a good eromenos

Steve's on snapchat.

The first poet on snapchat.

I don't know how I feel about all this overwhelming positivity.

It seems nice, but I feel skeptical, and, if I'm going to be honest, a little afraid. Maybe there's some truth to the whole New Sincerity idea that we're too worried about not looking cool/cynical/ironic enough, and that we should just try and be forthright and honest, but... well I don't know.

It all sounds a little naive, I guess.

>>4597084
>Write a 50 page treatment for a sitcom about BEE and Steve living together in a kind of Odd Couple situation and trying to reconcile their conflicting worldviews for the sake of their homosexual relationship
>Send it in to ABC family
>Get cleared for a pilot
>Make millions

I only posted this because it's already in the works; I'm never going to come back to this shithole again.

Cya, fuckers.

>>4600185

>it's already in the works

what you got 5 pages on your google docs?

>>4600185
>>4600210

Let's gchat this.

>>4600210
>google docs

This nigga.

I'm using Dropbox, fucko, and I have like seven pages.

>>4598377
>from the heart
>>4596294

>>4596294

how is this any better than cynicism/irony/whatever it is trying to stand out from? How is forcing yourself to replicate a "holds up spork" level piece of cringe display anything worthwhile?

>>4595303
okay /k/

>>4600577
It's not. Roggenbuck has no idea what 'sincerity' is. If you listen to him, sincerity is acting facetious but just saying that you're not.