/lit/ - Literature

>>4587237


thread hidden.

>>4587237
/pol/ hates it and won't stop talking about how much they hate it. You know this.

>>4587253
I did not know that.

Picked it out of a book of box my mother was going to toss. Now i'm one chapter in, reading for leisure in between reading Rawls for college.
>I study political science and never browse /pol
Other opinions?

>Pol hates it, noted.

>>4587241
what?

>>4587268
>Other opinions?
none that are worthwhile. it's a hunk of pop-history garbage.

What about pic related?

>>4587304
>>Pol hates it, noted.
Pretty much this. Regardless of what /pol/ says about it, it is basically the left-wing equivalent of something that /pol/ would put out.

>>4587350
woops, that green-text shouldn't be there.

>>4587237

If you're looking for a scientifically sound book on this topic, that isn't riddled with rhetoric like GG&S, you should look up 'The 10,000 Year Explosion'.

AMZN link: http://www.amazon.com/The-000-Year-Explosion-Civilization/dp/0465020429

Jared Diamond, who is not actually an anthropologist, missed a chance to make a legitimate contribution to anthropology (in the form of "hey, you all should pay more attention to the effects of environment and available resources") because he'd rather overstate his case and sell an oversimplified book that says "it's ALL environment and natural resources" to people who know even less about anthropology than he does.

He spent time with a tribe and then wrote a book about it, and after reading said book the tribe's leaders formally requested an apology for how he misrepresented them.

>>4587350
>left-wing
But he's all about that "third world countries need our white dick" capitalist imperialism in the guise of help.

>>4587393
you think the american left isn't imperialist? woah, nelly.

>>4587304
>pop-history garbage.
As far as I can tell this translates into two things.

A. It's popular and therefore I hate it. Historians resent Jared Diamond because he's now a rockstar of history and he's not even a trained historian. Pseudo-intellectual hipsters hate it because it's last decades news and now every Joe Shmoe has read it and thinks there's something elucidating about the book, so naturally they assume they come off as more intelligent by declaring it too "plebeian" for their taste.

B. It's too scientific. Yeah, really. Apparently a lot of people resent the implied "geographic determinism" that Diamond, a geographer, brings to the book because muh free will, muh great men, muh alternative history.

>>4587404
Oh, I thought you meant actual leftism.

>>4587419
see
>>4587390

>>4587268
Tries too hard to paint white men as the source of every evil, but has some valid points

>>4587404
>confusing the Democratic Party with the left in America

GEE I CAN SEE SOMEONE CAN'T SEE THROUGH THE PROPAGANDA SYSTEM

>>4587393
>>4587404
In the corporate world center-left is all we're allowed to know

It's a good book.

Most of the conclusions are well established. Generally I've found criticisms tend to focus on some very specific aspect that is taken out of context, or be overly general. Most of them have not read the book, and either hate it because it's popular or because it doesn't fit in with their /pol/ worldview.

>>4587350
An example of someone who has clearly never read it.

>>4587459
This is the most honest answer in the thread so far.

>>4587437
>Tries too hard to paint white men as the source of every evil
>Imply white men are not the source of every evil

>>4587393
>But he's all about that "third world countries need our white dick" capitalist imperialism in the guise of help.
B-but he says the opposite.

You wouldn't just post lies on the internet would you??

>>4587493
But anon, that's incorrect

>>4587390
>"it's ALL environment and natural resources"
Where does he say that?

> the tribe's leaders formally requested an apology for how he misrepresented them.
Sauce

>>4587437
>Tries too hard to paint white men as the source of every evil
Where does he say that?

I took two classes with Prof. Diamond during my time at UCLA. The guy is full of it.

>>4587502
pls explain why
not even tricking, just curious

>>4587545
> I took two classes with Prof. Diamond during my time at UCLA. He gave me a C. I will hate him for the rest of my life. The guy is full of it.
I believe you anon

i appreciate his idea of trying to emphasize geographical and biological factors as a sort of environmental determinism, but he gets so many minor facts wrong that its easy to cite them against him

try mcmichael's development and social change or adas' machines as the measure of men

Utter shit from a literary standpoint. Content-wise, it makes some good points.

Read it a couple years back during an 8 hour lay-over at an airport, from what I remember it was pretty decent. Makes some interesting points about geographic determinism and all that shit. Obviously if you're going to take it as the whole truth on the matter and wip it out at parties you shouldn't read it, but if not its a pretty fun interesting book.

Actually that's gotten me thinking, does /lit/ have a chart for good books you can read if you want to contribute to fun conversations at diner parties? If not we should make one

>>4587761
>geographic determinism

All it takes is a single black swan observation to denounce his entire arguments of which there are many black swans which could be produced for every one of his conclusions and posits.

>>4587771
>not fun at parties

>>4587761
op here
>does /lit/ have a chart for good books you can read if you want to contribute to fun conversations at diner parties? If not we should make one


>this


Thanks for all the ideas all, have some dj detweiler
https://soundcloud.com/d-j-detweiler

>>4587237
ah heres that pic.

i own the book and i enjoyed reading it. however, i disagree with its overall conclusion. the book basically claims that europe came to dominate the world exclusively because of its environment. he even goes so far as to claim that tribal people from new guinea are more intelligent than europeans (and therefore that eurpoe has succeeded despite this lack of smarts because of its environment). there is another book called "the 10,000 year explosion" which i am reading now that takes the view that the early start that some areas got to civilization was critical in changing the evolutionary pressures for the entire population. this caused radically different trait selection.

some traits that would be benefital in a tribal environment, like aggression would become a huge disadvantage in a city.

anyway i could wirte more but fuck you, read it.

>>4587854
go read The Ethnic Phenomenon when you're done with that plebeian stuff

Oh look it's this thread again

>>4587793
>/mu/ idiot wanting charts

How shocking

>>4587854
>The Alps
>Dividing Europe and Asia

wot

>>4587404
America doesn't have a serious left wing, we have far right, moderate right, and right-leaning centrist factions.

>>4587503
>>4587507
>no responses

Yep.

>>4587503
>>4587507
>>4588836

I'm guessing you're the same guy from the lasts threads who always said "He didn't say that literally, he doesn't mean that, source" even when people linked you to articles where he said the exact thing they pointed to.

>>4587854
Literally ever counter in the image is just made up. No significant cultural exchanges between Europe, Asia, and the Middle-east? How can someone be so wrong? And I love the bit that Diamond was wrong to say the Americas had less domesticatable animals than Europe because... they had llamas. That and the (intentional, no doubt) conflation between domestication and training with regard to Zebras and other African animals. And then there's the latent "scientific" racism of the comment. Not even once.

>Captcha: leave rvrytes

>>4588850
No, but I'd like to see these sources.

>>4587237
It's good. Some parts of oversimplified for ease of understanding, but it makes good points and serves as a good summary of human history altogether. Also surprisingly enjoyable.

>>4587854
Fucking /pol/. Whoever wrote that is a good writer but didn't disprove anything in the book, just took a few lines out of context and made shit up.

His point for number 6, especially. In North America, the first European settlers in the 15th century caused horrible horrible plagues for the natives. And equating malaria to smallpox is just stupid.

I wonder if he even read the book, seeing as his counter-argument for the 4th point (why didn't the Europeans hunt their animals to extinction?) is brought up and answered in the book itself.

>>4589138
*some parts ARE oversimplified

>>4587390
>"it's ALL environment and natural resources"
He doesn't say that. Did you read where he offers an explanation for why Europe colonized America before China did? Protip: it's not environmental.

>>4589138
That "/pol/ post" is a stolen Amazon review.

>>4588865
lmao yeah the llamas thing made be bust out a hearty gut laugh.

>>4588865
Llamas are overtly addressed in the book anyhow.

>>4589200
Also, domestication vs. taming are generally the terms used, also the the terms used in the book in relation to zebras.

It's pop-science but well written, fun to read, and make some good if grossly exaggerated points.

Most importantly quoting it is the best way to troll your academic friends in anthropology and the like since Jared Diamond is incredibly hated by professionals in the field for, well, not being one himself. Most of the criticism is unwarranted since Jared Diamond made it very clear that his goals were not scientific but political.

Also /pol/ hates it but they take it way too seriously.

>>4589172
I just assumed it was /pol/, but now at least the fact that it was well written makes sense

>>4587503
Sorry, I was away.

Here's the sauce:

http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/8958

>>4590009
It's not Guns, Germs, and Steel they want an apology for, tho, which also mentions them profusely.

>>4590017
Reread the post that said they wanted an apology. I said he wrote "a book about it," not that it was the same one.

>>4587501
Read The World Until Yesterday. He heavily implies exactly what I said. And read the article mentioned here: >>4590009

>>4587393


but they do need our white dick.

or rather, over colonialism would be an improvement over the current system of financial imperialism/debt peonage.

>>4590263
The financial imperialism/debt peonage is a result of foreign intervention.

What they need is for everyone to fuck off.

>>4587546

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

At times white men have been the most efficient, however over time non-whites have caused far more suffering(particularly China). Everyone is just as bad as each other, and your rhetoric would not exist if white countries had the same level of low hospitality as those belonging to countries of other races.

>>4587761
I once whipped it out at a party.
I was thoroughly humiliated by an Asian chick, with the implication that I was racist.

Never read a non-fiction book since.

>>4590398

>>4590398
Are you talking about "Guns, Germs, And Steel" or your penis?

>>4590398
>I was humiliated by a chick

you are a social retard

I read the first half, got the jist of it and picked up A Primate's Memoir - which is much more entertaining.

Excuses for Niggers by A Jew

>>4590635
>>>/pol/

>>4589138
You have a yellow belly.