/lit/ - Literature

>>4586583

Great, great book, OP, but worryingly, becoming all too relevant again.

The "deep shit" is something that plebs can into: it's about original sin.

>>4586608
Could you spell it out?
I got that the girl at the end was a new species, and, therefore, free of sin.

>>4586617

Seriously? Spell it out? You're there already, sir. You're good to go. All the rest is picking up the references to Catholic doctrine. Basically, the book appears to be anti-pelagian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagianism

...then it subverts that by suggesting that evolution trumps original sin.

>>4586641
Never heard of Pelagianism before, thanks.

What do you think about that old jew pilgrim? Who was he? Lazarus? Leibowitz? A different pilgrim each time?

>>4586654

Oh, _him_ -- he's the Wandering Jew.

>>4586660
Never heard of him either, thanks again.

It seems the book is indeed much richer than I thought.
Have you read the sequel?

Also, what's with all the Latin? Did any of you did something with that or just skipped every occurrence?

>>4586672
No, I haven't. Probably should, but I didn't think "Canticle" required a follow-up.

>>4586708
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_in_A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

>>4586708

I lack the benefits of a classical education, so _reductio ad absurdum_...

>>4586708
It's a really low brow way for people to try to read intellectual, as if memorizing a bunch of phrases in a dead language means you are smart.

>>4586788
You're just being a prick because you don't know latin.

>>4586641

>implying there is something to be at already

>>4586801

How am I being a prick? You actually think this is the very first book to do this? Well, it isn't. And every time I read one with a bunch of Latin phraseology sprinkled throughout for no reason it becomes a gratuitous immediately, and then transitions seamlessly into a vulgar display of plebianism.

>>4586802
GTFO

>>4586802
captcha: Spirit freeess

I really enjoyed this book, especially the first two sections, although a certain someone getting shot with an arrow bummed me out. Plus I know enough Latin and Catholic doctrine to get most of the sentences after some effort, so It made me feel smart

>>4586660
and he was Judas

>>4586811
Latin phraseology sprinkled throughout for no reason? WTF? It's set in a Catholic monastery, asshole, and was written before Vatican II. What do you think the liturgical language of the monks should be? Ebonics?

What do you guys make of the last paragraph? "The shark was really hungry that season" or something.

Was he implying that evolution would push the shark out of the water? I thought so, because Miller likes his cycles so much.

>>4587954
Good job overthinking things.

The last paragraphs talk about how radiation levels from the nuclear detonations are killing off most of the plants and animals. The shark is going to be hungry because the ecology is crashing and there will be less prey.

>>4587993
That's possible too, but doesn't that create a conflict with the new human species? What's the point of creating it if he makes the surface inhospitable?
The sinleass people would die just the same.

I read it when I was 16 (which sadly was a long time ago), loved it then. Will have to reread it at some point.

uppan

>>4586788
>if memorizing a bunch of phrases in a dead language
Wow, you really are an ignorant person, aren't you?

The book is based on Catholic Church and the Vatican.

FYI, Catholic texts used to be written in Latin since the beginning of the church (I'm sure even modern Encyclicals are translated and archived in Latin).
Mass used to be held in Latin until The 2nd Vatican Council (1960s).

The book is full of Catholic lithurgy, as originally written/expressed, i.e., in Latin because the priests in many orders are required to learn Latin. So it goes they'll express ideas in Latin.

It's not some gimmick, as you seem to imply. It's an appropriate resource to set the tone and the mannerisms of the people pictured in the book.

>Oh but I don't Latin.

What's next? Complaining War & Peace and other Russian books have too many French gimmicky phrases? ffs

>>4587856
>although a certain someone getting shot with an arrow bummed me out.

Yeah - that was pretty unexpected.

>>4589021
It was a bummer, yes, but totally expected considering what happened to Christian martyrs.

I liked how that seemingly simple event played in the later chapters.

>>4587932
mfw I never read the book

Loved it. Probably my favorite sci-fi book (some of Simmons is close) and one of my favorite books in general.
>>4586708
As a latinfag it was neat understanding most of it, and honestly the setting wouldn't really work right without it. You don't lose too much by not understanding it but it's necessary with the history of the church.

>>4589039
Yes, I thought that was a very neat way to connect the second and third tales, showing that he was not forgotten

>>4589039
>but totally expected considering what happened to Christian martyrs.

Come now, he was hardly a 'matyr' - just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He wasn't 'defending the faith' or being killed because of who/what he was - he just had shit luck out in the wilderness whilst traveling.

>>4589698
He didn't die for a cause, but he had a pretty shitty life because of his findings.

>>4588159
>What's the point of creating it if he makes the surface inhospitable?

Why do you think the surface is completely inhospitable? Not all life is dying off, just a big chunk of it, and the deep ocean will be essentially untouched.

>>4589698
>Come now, he was hardly a 'matyr'

Most historical martyrs weren't really martyrs either. Miller is just showing how the passage of time can sanctify.

>>4590465
Pretty much this.