/lit/ - Literature

The real Boy who Survived should have been Neville Fatass. Dumbledore said it was Harry just to gather attention away from him.

Not making already edgy children's books into even edgier shitfests is hardly what I'd call leaving out development of characters and plot.

In the 6th book Dumbledore is killed. Why would a masterful and all powerful dark wizard be bent on the destruction of a young, amateur boy barely able to perform an unforgivable curse, when his apparent arch-rival had already been killed?
The stupid thing is, We know Voldemort desires magical blood purification (i.e. the destruction of mud-bloods).Yet, he actively seeks Harry, to destroy him? Why bother? Why not just go do what he came back to do? Not all mud-bloods live at Hogwarts. There are other magical schools as introduced in the fourth book.

Harry couldn't find Voldemort if he was given a global Marauders Map so I can't see how he could stop him.

Voldemort is a poorly thought out character who is clearly developed on the fly.

>>4586331
Interesting idea that could have been a humbling experience for Harry. Just one thing, how would you explain Harry's stupid scar and Neville's lack of one?

All that sort of thing is best reserved for later books. The books of Harry in his youth should be children's books, his adulthood should be more adult. Thus Harry should grow up to be paranoid (understandable) to near Rorschach dimensions, yet also pained by his loss of the spotlight and so constantly trying to get public attention. Ron stays in the same poverty as the rest of his family, and largely appears to have no future, which makes Heroine regret marrying him somewhat; she finds Harry to have grown very physically attractive and charismatic, but his histrionics and paranoia make him uncertain to her sexually. Ginny's relationship with Harry deteriorates until he ends up hitting her, which causes him to be consumed with guilt and begins to drink. Eventually some major politic figure decides she can use Harry as a pawn, and plays into his fantasies or something like that, and that is where the intrigue starts.

>>4586315
Do you pick on all the books you read for things the author "should" have done or is it only a children's/Ya book?
There is a lot of moral contrast with Harry, you just have to look a little deeper than him not using unforgivable curses, instead of his harmless disarming and stunning spells (which helped him kill You Know Who). Harry did use Sectumsempra against Malfoy.

It's hard to say what I see as mistakes because they're children's books, the same rules shouldn't apply for them or else we would have to be critiquing goosebumps, Roald Dahl etc. I think J.K could have added a bit more info about then Time Turners.

>>4586378

Harry got his when his parents dropped him on the sidewalk.

Neville has a scar, but it's on his butt.

>>4586382
Any further development of this series by Rowling might sate fans thirsts, but would feel like a major cash in.

>>4586374
Isn't it obvious? Voldemort was extremely powerful and extremely vain. His ambitions and life were destroyed by a child, he was humiliated.

Revenge is an extremely common human phenomenon and is used a'lot in literature.

Imagine the biggest bully in school, being beaten by the most puny pre-schooler. The bully can't lose face to his peers, he needs revenge.

>>4586382
Harry hated the spotlight from book one.
>>4586406
I'd love it if J.K did adult prequels.

>>4586406
>but would feel like a major cash in.
who cares?

>>4586436
He seemed to get quite a kick out of his popularity in sports. I think it would be more likely for Harry to have acquired a taste for attention, even if he didn't realize it until it was gone. How you are at eleven is a lot different from your twenties.

>>4586315
Why do all characters have to be morally gray these days? Goddamn it, fuck that bullshit.

>>4586374
>Yet, he actively seeks Harry, to destroy him? Why bother?

Because there was a prophecy that the only person capable of defeating Voldemort was Harry, and vice versa.

Everything else about the prophecy had been proven correct up to that point, so Voldy had no reason to believe anything otherwise. He thought by eliminating Harry he'd essentially be immortal and unstoppable.

>>4586315
>Harry should have utilized the unforgivable curses. At the very least he could have managed to successfully use the Cruciatus curse
Actually it seems out of character and odd that in book 7 harry uses the same unforgivable curse like 3 times in one hour (the one where you control other people). More curses would seem out of character and dumb.
>He should have cast the killing curse on Bellatrix during the fifth book after she killed Sirius and allowed Voldemort's verbal taunts to sway him. Then perhaps gone missing after Dumbledore's and Voldemort's duel. This would have been a turning point in his character and left readers questioning whether he had turned or he would be punished in the next installment. Instead he casts a half-hearted Cruciatus curse that doesn't work, and is not even acknowledged in future books.
Actually it is mentioned in 6 when Harry is trying to do the same thing to Snape.
>>He should have cast the Killing curse during his final battle with Voldemort. He killed his parents for Christ sake. Instead he (and the rest of the 'good guys') is insistent on using harmless disarming and stunning spells on deadly notorious mass murderers.
Wow that sure is super stupid that they live in a peaceful society. To all of the sudden have the good guy kill volde because he was mad would have been once again uncharacteristic and d-u-m-b

>>4586356
Yeah, OP the place where people post bad fan fiction greentext out of the blue is >>>/co/

>>4586454
Because saints aren't at all believable.

>>4586315
There is a website for people who write edgy fan fiction, OP.

Harry should have ridden giant eagles into Voldemort.

>>4586331
>The real Boy who Survived should have been Neville Fatass. Dumbledore said it was Harry just to gather attention away from him.

Well that's incorrect. The prophecy said that the person who would inevitably be the downfall of Voldemort is the son of a couple he kills, and the people that fell into that category were Harry and Neville. It didn't matter which one he went for, the same shit would have happened and Voldemort would have been fucked regardless.

>you only now realise Harry was a snivelling, pathetic little boy until he went to the school and was seen as famous
>if Neville had the scar and the reputation, he would have basically turned into what Harry became by the end of it, and Harry would be the pathetic loser who goes back to an abusive foster family

Neville ain't shit in the HP books, he just had the POSSIBILITY of being the shit.

Why didn't they just shoot Voldemort with a gun? Plothole, Rowling.

>>4586516
no shit retard, they were talking about what SHOULD'VE been in the books

holy christ you just jumped at the first sign to show off your extensive potterlore didn't you, you fucking sperg

>>4586478
>To all of the sudden have the good guy kill volde because he was mad would have been once again uncharacteristic and d-u-m-b

Except it wouldn't be. The whole "you can't kill one guy, even though it's saving potentially hundreds of thousands of people" is absolute bullshit, and is the view of idealistic left wing morons.

The death of Voldemort and the splitting of Harry's soul into two would be a COMPLETELY appropriate price to pay to save the thousands.

Hell, DUMBLEDORE HIMSELF makes the call of using Harry knowing full well he'll probably die just so he can get rid of Voldemort. It's an acceptable cost, and just because his ghost takes a 180-spin in opinion is just Rowling's view of "NO KILL, THAT'S BAD" coming through.

>>4586527
Jeez man, fucking relax. It's a children's book thread.

>>4586529
>Except it wouldn't be. The whole "you can't kill one guy, even though it's saving potentially hundreds of thousands of people" is absolute bullshit, and is the view of idealistic left wing morons.
Historically speaking, the left hasn't exactly been pacifist.

>>4586556

I'm talking the modern "love everyone, nothing bad happens, how dare you say bad things exist, that must mean YOU'RE BAD" kind of left wing citizen, who refuses to believe that ends can justify the means because MURDER BE BAD.

> We discuss opportunities Rowling missed to develop characters and plot.

The entire franchise.

>>4586447
You think it would be likely he would lose his spot of fame though. Harry would be famous as hell until his death, books written about him, interview, studied at school etc.

Also harry felt all his childhood he wasn't good at anything. He didn't like the fame of being good at Quidditch, he liked the fact that he was good at something.

>>4586576

>>4586460
Who made the prophecy? I can't remember.

>>4586590
Old people. Ages ago.

Nah it's something to do with some people having the ability to see shit in the future, but it's rare as fuck. Remember the crazy ass divination teacher, and her prophecy that comes out of nowhere and she can't even remember making it, with only Harry there as witness? That's it.

>>4586523
That's not a plothole.

>>4586564
That's a complete generalisation. Ron's mum kills Belatrix. Peeps get killed, Voldemort gets killed.

>>4586600
Ah ok thanks anon. I like how pretty much everyone thinks Trelawny is a hack and we're made to. Believe so, then she actually does have the talent but doesn't even remember it.m

>>4586590
>>4586600
It was professor Trelawney that made the prophecy if I remember correctly, the irony is that even she doesn't realize she's a legit prophet though since she has no memories of her real prophecies.

>>4586676
Of course she has to, the prophecy was recorded and kept in the ministry of magic, remember?

>>4586492
How was Harry a saint? He was just an ordinary lazy school boy that bumbles and stumbles his way into defeating a greater enemy, with the help of more competent friends.

There's no need to make every fucking character grimdark gray morality though, that's what's really unbelievable.

>>4586682
She doesn't know that, it was recorded and archived in a top secret section of the ministry that most wizards aren't even aware of the existence of if I remember correctly.

Also I'm pretty sure Dumbledore literally says that Trelawney has no knowledge of the fact that she's a real prophet.

What would have been better is if, at the battle of Hogwarts when the Death Eaters were looming down, McGonigal went to the Room of Requirement and loaded up the whole student body with AK-47s. Due to their range, rate of fire, and ease of use they are clearly superior to wands when it comes to combat.

>>4586723
>AK-47s
>range

/k/ would like a word with you

also technology malfunctions in the presence of magic

>>4586395
There is a paradox there. How did Harry kill Voldemort using a seemingly harmless disarming spell?
Also, true Harry did use Sectumsempra on Malfoy, but that was before he knew it's effects. I think it's fair to assume he would not have if he had known.

I just see a missed opportunity to explore Harry's conflicting morality and contrast his character

>>4586750
>basic mechanical forces don't work around magic

so do doors not work around magic, either?

>>4586454
aren't we all morally grey though

I'm a humanist/feminist/social justice whatever but I also have a high tendency toward unrestricted anger that has led to me physically harming people and animals

I am not good or evil, I am both. Most people are this way

>>4586776
Something as complex as a gun would just blow up in a wizard's face, at least on Hogwarts grounds anyways.

>>4586516
Well technically Barty Crouch Jr killed Neville's parents.

>>4586785
>guns
>complex

>>4586529
Completely agree. I saw the omission of Harry's use of the spells as childish morality crap. The Potter series could have been a greatly modern philosophical outlook on morality, but it was good vs evil crap.

>>4586576

>tfw you realized hermione and harry would never hook up
>tfw they would never fight with hermione hatefucking ron
>tfw harry doesn't fuck ginny to get back at ron
>tfw harry potter isn't smut

>>4586804
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-technology+magic.html

>>4586684
Everyone likes to dabble a bit on the dark side and it would have been an interesting concept to see Harry let his darker emotions run free for a bit, or perhaps accidentally give Voldemort's influences a better handle on him.

>>4586820
>fan-written defense of a retarded, illogical plot device

Just face it, technology not working simply DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, but of course neither does magic. Point being, it's a retarded plot hole of a book series that never tried to be logical.

>>4586820
It really comes down to the mystical nature people apply to technology because they're too stupid to understand it. Guns operate on the laws of physics, for guns to not work the laws of physics would need not apply, for the laws of physics to not apply means to produce a world that cannot be understood by definition. If physics doesn't always work, why don't peoples brains shut off, why don't solid items disintegrate, how does gravity hold, etc.

It IS illogical, and some shit-tier essay won't defend it

>>4586820
You've also got the problem of how magic-users can go to the muggle world and ride trains and perform magic near TVs and have the damn devices still work, considering a TV and a train are extremely more complex than a gun

>>4586315
The entire series could have been a fantastic character study, instead it turned into a formula following, money making machine.

What this guy said pretty much. >>4586805

>>4586492

They are when convincingly made. Jean Valjean and Javert were both saints of two strongly opposed moral views, one man the reflection of the other, both working toward the same good though through different methods and thus despite their strong morality opposed, and they both were very human.

Just my two pennies.

>>4586820
I mean, we can suspend disbelief for magic, simply because it's interesting. If there were a spell that made a gun jam, that would be more understandable, but the idea that "all devices don't work near magic" just holds the most retarded implications

It never even needed to be explained, really. the explanation made the whole story worse because it encourages abandoning the suspension of disbelief for retarded "logical" copouts that make less sense than the original plot

so you guys are mad that your book was a standard book for teens instead of a crhistopher nolan book for teens? lol suck my fucking dick

>>4586846
>assaulting an illogical plot hole created in a children book, born post-twilight magical shit fest.

>>4586874
I laughed harder at that than I should have.
It's so true though.

>>4586874
It is by no means my favorite literary work. I just thought it may be an interesting exercise to criticism Rowling's decisions.

>>4586781
sounds like you're a retard with poor impulse control

>>4586892
*Criticize

My phone. Magic must be present

>>4586781
>feminist

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>>4586894
Sure, but that's beside the point. People do bad things. People do good things.

Your friends aren't purely good people, they've wronged you. So have your parents. Or your teachers. But they may also have done very good things. Things aren't black and white.

>>4586905
what's wrong with being a feminist

>>4586516
Harry's father was a complete Dick.

>>4586781
fuck

are you trying to be your own mary sue?

stop

>>4586315
I can't believe no one has said this yet.

>Snape should have been Harry's father

It is one of the biggest missed opportunity and plot twister of the past 10 years.

>>4586781

>>4586922
that would...
actually be great.

>>4586910
Morality is in fact a twisted product of our own perception. What makes evil, evil? Why is it evil to kill someone? Because God said so? or it says it in a book? or a countries law states you will be punished?

This could have been explored in this series, instead it took a backseat to capitalistic cinema work.

>>4586928
I actually believe it was subliminal until I further researched online to find that it wasn't.

>>4586918
see >>4586910
It's anecdotal evidence, but it's anecdotal evidence that applies to everyone. People aren't villains or heroes.

>>4586923
If you wanna just exaggerate what I'm saying to be funny we aren't gonna have a productive discussion. I shared my situation in hopes of reminding people that maybe they also have things they do that they don't want anyone to know even if they give to charity or are kind to people or so on and so forth.

>>4586932
I am SO not here for an argument on morality. I'm here to say that people aren't completely good or completely evil and that the "rise" in morally grey characters is due to the fact that real people are morally grey.

>>4586922
I agree. The entire series' theme was spot on, which is primarily what brought it it's fame, but Rowling's execution was terrible.

>>4586938
>I am SO not here for an argument on morality. I'm here to say that people aren't completely good or completely evil and that the "rise" in morally grey characters is due to the fact that real people are morally grey.

And so it makes the character's more relatable. Completely with you.

>>4586854
There's a difference between a wizard riding a train and a wizard attempting to use a piece of technology on one of the most heavily enchanted pieces of land on the planet.

Even fucking maps don't work on Hogwarts, you think a fucking gun is going to be able to?

>>4586922
huh. guess it would make sense with him loving lily. J.K. could have made James abusive, blood-purist or maybe even a traitor.

I also think the explanation of Pettigrew and his relation to the family was shitty

>>4586948
>Even fucking maps don't work on Hogwarts
>Marauders map

Pick one

>>4586948
>train drives straight to hogwarts
>advanced clocks
>they drive a magic car there

GEE NO MECHANICS AT ALL I SEE. OH WAIT, MAYBE IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE A MAGIC GUN BECAUSE EVEN MORE COMPLEX NON-MAGIC DEVICES DO WORK IN THE MAGICAL HOGWARTS

>2014
>being fucking retarded

>>4586374
>Harry couldn't find Voldemort if he was given a global Marauders Map so I can't see how he could stop him.

This is what I've been saying since the whole time.

>>4586460
But, Voldemort is one powerful motherfucker, why didn't he just say fuck Harry and the prophecy. If any of his peers disrespected him because of it as >>4586429 said, then why wouldn't he just fucking kill them? They are already act like they're scared shitless of him anyway.

>>4586961
It's a magical map, muggle maps can't plot Hogwarts.

>>4586970
Magical trains and a magical flying car. None of that shit was operating on pure muggle tech.

>>4586979
this.
Bad guys go looking for revenge. Evil dudes are smart enough to know when to say, 'fuck this shit, I got better shit to do'

>>4586979
Because the prophecy said that neither of them would be able to live while the other still survived, if he didn't kill Harry first then he was doomed to have Harry relentlessly trying to kill him.

It was sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, sure, but from Voldemort's POV Harry was literally the only thing threatening his own continued existence.

>>4586982
So you're telling me no-one in those stupid films was ever caught wearing a watch while casting magic?
>inb4 it was a magical watch from ollivanders magical wand and watch shop

>>4586997
>films

Harry Potter is a book series m8, that's what we're discussing here.

Not surprising though that people on /lit/ like to discuss things they haven't read though.

>>4586982
THEN MAGICAL GUNS. IF YOU CAN TURN MECHANICAL OBJECTS INTO MAGIC ONES, MAKE A MAGIC GUN. THERE YOU GO, YOU'VE STILL BROKEN THE HP UNIVERSE.

>>4587043
On that note, really HP shouldn't have been set in the real world. It should have been a different world, all on its own. The whole "You're a wizard, Harry." is a gimmick anyway.

>>4586988
If neither can live while the other survives then how the fuck is Voldemort back in physical form and more powerful than ever while Harry is alive also? Both are alive and in good health for a good portion of the series. So let's put that to the side.

Now, even if Harry destroyed all the Horcruxes, he would still have to engage in physical battle with Voldemort to destroy him. He only really destroyed him because Voldemort came knocking.
Harry doesn't come across as the kind of guy who would actively seek out Voldemort just to kill him, even if he did, there's no way being the pitiful wizard he is, he could actually find him. He only desires his end because Voldemort is actively taking destructive steps (ordering the killing of mudbloods, attacking hogwarts etc)


What if Voldemort didn't even bother with Hogwarts and stuck to killing mud-bloods over in Germany or some shit. As this guy said, >>4586374 there is more than one magical school in the world. Plus, Dumbledore is dead and Snape, a death-eater (whom Voldemort trusts) is headmaster. So why bother with the place at all? Why not just order the ministry to ban mudbloods from magical learning? Why not only have one Slytherin house?

Voldemort comes off as not the brightest individual. He pretty much walked into his own death. There are more plot holes in this series than is first apparent.

>>4587051
Obviously, the modern world setting was an early concept during the 'this is a kids series' stage of writing for Rowling. Trying to get kids to believe this shit is real so they buy more.

It's the oldest trick in the book.

>>4587043
What's the point when you can accomplish the same thing with spells though in less time?

Do you even read what you write?

>>4587055
>If neither can live while the other survives then how the fuck is Voldemort back in physical form and more powerful than ever while Harry is alive also?

I didn't literally mean "neither can live", it meant that they're both so driven to murder the other that even if one just completely ignored the prophecy the other would still track them down and try to kill them, and would probably succeed since the other would be putting their guard down by ignoring the prophecy.

You know how in Star Wars the Death Star was like invulnerable except for one tiny spot or some shit? Basically Voldemort would be the Death Star here but he was trying to be a smart villain and guard that one weakness instead of ignoring it.

>>4587079
Except you fucking can you retarded monkey ape.

>>4587079
Avarda Kedavra is a six syllable word and takes immense concentration and even then it only disables one individual.
I think a gun is much more efficient, however, other destructive spells like bombarda, diffindo and the banishing spell evanesca are more efficient and only capable with a wand.

>>4587094
>What's the point when you can
>Except you fucking can

I see we're in agreement then.

>>4587096
>Avarda Kedavra is a six syllable word and takes immense concentration and even then it only disables one individual.

And Avada Kedavra is a lot harder to deal with than a bullet.

Avada Kedavra literally can't be blocked or stopped in any way if I remember correctly, the only way to avoid it is to literally dodge its path. A bullet could be stopped in its tracks and even reversed on the shooter.

>>4587097
can't*

>>4587088
If Harry is so driven to kill Voldemort, then why doesn't Harry use the Killing Curse on Voldemort instead of a stupid disarming charm? and how does that manage to kill Voldemort in the first place?
>inb4 when one lands a hit on the other it kills them
Then why would Voldemort bother using the Killing curse, a spell that requires immense concentration?

I don't think Harry is driven to kill him, it just doesn't seem in his character to hate, even the man who killed his parents, that much.
The strange thing is, Voldemort would know this since he frequently practiced Legilimency with Harry throughout the last few books.

>>4587103
Good point.

>>4587055
never thought of it like that

>>4587113
>If Harry is so driven to kill Voldemort, then why doesn't Harry use the Killing Curse on Voldemort instead of a stupid disarming charm?

Because Harry is literally incapable of using Avada Kedavra, that's directly stated in the books.

> and how does that manage to kill Voldemort in the first place?

Their spells hit each other and Voldemort's bounced back to him.

You guys really make it seem like you've only seen the movies.

is anyone else still wondering why harry has no pyschological trauma despite growing up unloved, neglected, abused, and IN A FUCKING CUPBOARD? srsly

also i think that having a fucking piece of voldemort's soul should have had more an effect on him.

>>4586315
Not a plot development idea, but plot holes for sure.

So the ministry of magic thinks it's perfectly okay to send someone to Azkaban or to get a dementors kiss, but yet there are rules for using the truth potion (i can't spell it but it's something like "Vertiserum"). They could easily tell who is lying or who is telling the truth by using it and save innocent people (like Sirius Black) from fates of life imprisonment or having their soul sucked out. The morality of this is crazy. I would understand that they don't want to use the truth potion because it's unjust, but isn't it better then having some innocent person get their soul sucked out?

Why didn't the sorting hat see that Peter Pettigrew is a total coward and does not have any qualities a Gryffindor should have? Why was he still sorted to Gryffindor?

So. We're supposed to believe that during Ron's first year that Fred and George NEVER checked up on or looked at Ron on the map to see that there was a "Peter Pettigrew" next to or near him? Ever?

Why couldn't Harry have "re-lived" the experience in the graveyard by means of the pensieve? The real "plot hole" part of this is that if Harry had just done this, they could have shown Fudge the scene and proved that it had happened. Clearly, Dumbledore already had the pensieve, because Harry had used it to accidentally witness the three Wizengamot's trials while in Dumbledore's office.

>>4586922
yes that would be totally original and we would never say it was formulaic.

>>4586315
Harry Potter universe needs a Human Supremacist to reenact witch hunting on a global scale.

>>4587113
Either Harry's not that much in control or he lacks the power and experience to make the Unforgiveables work properly. As an Auror, later in life, he probably was able to if he had to, but Harry didn't seem to have the heart for killing, imo. Not a bad thing, mind.

If I were Voldemort, I wouldn't have wasted my time with Harry in the direct sense: I would have used my eyes at Hogwarts to figure out who Harry's friends were and I would have murdered them all. I would have killed all the Weasleys, the Grangers, the Longbottoms, Hagrid. I would have lured Hedwig outside and I would have caught him, roasted him, and left him outside on Harry's fucking yard. I would have broken him emotionally, I would have left him isolated and alone. I would have made it known that Harry Potter wasn't allowed to have love or friends.

In this way, I would have twisted Harry into a version of myself. I would have made him paranoid and hateful.

This would probably drive Harry to kill me, but it also would have turned him into a wrathful, untrusting lunatic. Then the piece of my soul within Harry would be primed and ready to take over.

I would have been the phoenix rising out of Harry Potter ashes.


How fucking sweet would that have been?

>>4587158
More

Why did harry have to go thru the triwizard tourney just to get to a portkey? Couldn't Crouch Jr just have been all like "hey harry take a drink out of this giant cup" and skipped over the risk of having harry die during the trials, or someone else getting to the cup first?

Why did the portkey work two ways? Crouch aka Moody went through all the trouble to put Harry through the TWT just to get him to touch a stupid cup. But why did he overlook the *huge* detail of having the portkey being able to take Harry *back* to Hogwarts? Even worse why does the portkey take him back to the *front* of the maze rather than back to the portkeys original location in the center of the maze? Also, if you're able to make a portkey that works by touching it, rather than by going off at a specific time (Since this was obviously how the portkey worked in GoF, because Crouch couldn't have known exactly when Harry would get to the portkey), why didn't they create the portkeys to the Burrow like this in DH, so you wouldn't run the risk of someone missing the specific portkey time?

Why were the kids able to get to the Stone in book 1? Voldemort is supposed to have been one of the most powerful wizards of all time. The Stone was moved to Hogwarts so the teachers could protect it. Now in DH, the teachers show remarkable skill in magic (i.e. Bringing suits of armor to life), and manage to hold off Voldemort's advancing army of wizards, werewolves, and giants. Yet, in the first book, the traps they set up to keep just Voldemort out aren't strong enough to keep three first years out.

Dumbledore and Harry's adventure in the cave seems to be extraordinarily badly planned?
Dumbledore says before he and Harry set off to the cave, that they are setting off to find and destroy one of Voldemort’s Horcruxes, yet when they get to the cave, they don’t seem to think about, or know how they are going to destroy the horcrux that they thought they were going to recover. When Dumbledore is about to drink the potion, he doesn’t know what the effects on him are going to be; he could be paralysed, forced to forget why he was there. He tells Harry to force the potion down him but he gives no instructions on what to do afterwards when the Horcrux is now accessible and Dumbledore is affected in whatever way by the potion. You would have expected him to perhaps tell him to destroy it presumably with [Godric Gryffindor’s sword] that Dumbledore brought with him, but did he actually bring it? No

Dumbledore is a dick

>>4587181
My point >>4586979
exactly.

while we're on the subject: can anyone suggest to me a story somewhat similar? re: magic, 'chosen one' rising, man/boy introduced to a new world, death (and lots of it). essentially a harry potter for adults? spanks.

>>4587218

Yeah, how about--
>spanks

>>4587193
Cont.

The Seven Potters- In the Seven Potters chapter, when the Order of the Phoenix had to sneak Harry out of his aunt's house, why did six members of the Order have to drink the Polyjuice potion to become Harry? Wouldn't it have been better if Harry took the potion to become someone else? Or why couldn't he have snuck out of the house using his Invisibility Cloak?

Why was the time turner (at the end of the 3rd book) NEVER USED AGAIN for any other (serious) problem?

Felix Felicis - When Ginny, Ron, and Hermione use it at the end of the 6th book they say that the death eater's curses "barely missed them". I know that Hermione says it takes 6 months to make the potion, but I presume for some price, a skilled witch or wizard could make tons of this stuff and Harry (or Dumbledore or Voldemort or Snape or Belltrix etc. etc.) could just buy some. This is especially apparent with the amount of money just sitting in Harry's vault.

How does Voldemort get his wand? he used it to kill harry's parents and tries to kill harry then I assume he takes a spirit form. Are we to infer that his wand just sits in Harry's house until he has wormtail fetch it 14 years later? No one searched the area for clues?

>>4587119
I'm the guy who originally brought up guns, and I don't think of them as an end-all-be-all. They probably wouldn't have worked on Voldemort but for all we know one shot to the head could have put him into a vegetative coma, if not just killing his body anyway. We don't know because guns are mentioned exactly twice in the entire series and only featured once, in the incapable hands of a Dursley.

If I were an auror I'd pack a sidearm.

>>4587103
Avada Kedavra can be blocked by physical objects and other people. Aim in Harry Potter, especially over long-range, isn't brought up. For all we know Avada Kedavra could work with a telescope up to one eye as a sniper spell. We don't know the full limits of Avada Kedavra but can have a decent idea of the limits of guns. It takes a trained wizard with a heart filled with hate to even be capable of casting Avada Kedavra. Even a scared and confused child can kill with a gun. Many of Africa's wars depend on that fact. I'd assume the shield spell (Protego) could probably make somebody bulletproof but they'd have to actually have it on, first. Guns would be ideal for a first-strike tactical advantage. Flashbangs and tear-gas would probably be extra-effective because proper spellcasting requires both verbal and somatic components dependent on the senses.

I don't think I'd ever write HP fanfics, but if I did they would be set in North America where wizards aren't automatically whimsical luddites. Until they can cure millions with vaccines, feed millions with breakthroughs in farming, and kill millions at the press of a button the wizarding world will always be inferior to the muggle world as a society, if not as individuals. I'd like it if the wizards would give muggles, or at least the society they created, some due respect.

Why didn't Dumbledore use the time turner to go back in time and strangle teenage Tom Riddle when he was about to do his first murder?

>>4587243
Final.

If Harry's survival is one of a kind, how do the whole wizarding, in a short time after it happened, figure out that Voldemort is "dead" and Harry survived a Killing Curse? Not much of a plot hole but, isn't it a also bit funny that in the whole history of the magical world, there is no other documented case of a person escaping death due to a loved one's sacrifice.

Why was the Ministry of Magic empty when Harry and friends got there to save Sirius? Is it just that way everyday or did the Death Eaters do this? Either way, Voldemort could just easily walk in there and take the Prophecy himself. No one would have seen him. What's the point of tricking Harry into this whole thing?

Dennis crevey in hogsmede in second year I thought only 3rd years and above were allowed to hogsmede. Colin creveys brother goes with him to the hogs head to see harrys DA meeting

>>4587256
If the casting of an unforgivable curse lands you a life sentence in Azkaban, then why wasn't Harry sentenced when he used Imperio several times within the hour on Bogrod?

>>4586315
Draco should have sided with Harry and Co.

>>4586315
it should of ended with Voldemort butt fucking Harry

>>4586982
A nonmagical map couldn't plot Hogwarts because it doesn't exist in conventional, universally standardized 3D space. At some point reality itself bends inward and Hogwarts is located in that pocket dimension. Electronics, particularly anything involving a wireless signal or computing device, would not work because magic must operate in much the same way as an EMP. Anything chemical or purely mechanical should still function. A gun should still function just fine.

The only reason for things based in science to not function at all would either be a spell specifically designed to do so or the laws of Harry Potter are similar to that of Mage: The Ascention and Hogwarts exists in a Paradigm Bubble of one of the Traditions.

>>4587133
The way Voldemort was killed in the end with his rebounding killing curse was the cheesiest family friendly shit imaginable.

>>4587292
I was disappointed that Harry never used AK. In Deathly Hallows we saw Harry use both the Cruciatus and Imperius curses, and I thought this was Rowling's way of setting us up for Harry to use the AK on Lord Voldemort or perhaps one of the Death Eaters but it never happened.

>>4587283
>should of

Learn grammar

>>4587299
>use the AK on Lord Voldemort

So guns do work

>>4587292
Voldemort's curse back-firing just made it look like Harry survived because of luck.

That's exactly why I didn't like the ending. It was like "once again Harry Potter has survived, not because of his abilities and heart, but because of sheer luck", kind of ruined the ending for me.

>>4587302

>>4587274
Kirk Rules: So long as you save everybody you will be forgiven of any past crimes and given no less than one year of full rights to sleep with whatever xeno you so choose without judgement.

Harry should have gone off and found some sweet, magical xeno-strange somewhere in the Forbidden Forest. Or banged a harem of house-elves.

>>4587133
Why is Harry incapable? Ron killed a Death Eater in the escape from Privet Drive.

Didn't seem to damage him too much.

In fact, pretty much all of the Order have killed. Remember Remus telling Harry off for being so lenient?

>>4587332
That curse can't be that bad. Aurors use it and they don't seem deranged to me. Snape has used it too but I don't see him being crazy

I would have made Ron suck less.

>>4587343
You can go ahead and split the soul as much as you like, you don't actually remove a piece of the soul and bind it to something (creating a horcrux) unless you perform a ceremony, which apparently was too horrific to include in the books.

>>4586315
Harry and Hermione should have fucked and Ron should have fought Harry.

>>4587299
I think he should have used it myself, as it was a WAR, and in war, you shoot to kill. But I can somewhat deal with him not using it, what I have a hard time dealing with is Hermione or RON not using them. Hermione and Ron had plenty of reasons (and skill) to want to kill the Death Eaters, and of course, after Fred was killed, Ron should have used the AK on DE in the great Hall, or the hallway, end of story. JKR even made it clear he wanted to kill them, he was under the cloak, how hard would it have been to use the killing curse on some of them as they left the Great Hall? After Harry was "dead" how is it even possible that Hermione and Ron don't use the killing curse, their best friend was just murdered, and the people who were apart of it are in the same Hall they are in, they should have been firing green curses. Minerva understood, she told a fellow teacher, that they would be dueling to kill, if a professor knows that, surely the trio who has spent the past year trying to destroy someone's soul would get it. But none of the trio ever used the AK, very unsatisfying.

>>4587366
How is it more evil to hit someone with the AK, than 4 or 5 stunning spells that kills them? I don't think using the AK in a war would be murder, like it would when Voldemort killed Lily and James. That would be like saying our soldiers are evil because they kill people the same way robbers kill those they're robbing.

>>4587356
the series should have ended with Ron revealing he was Voldemort all along.

>>4587133
How is he incapable though?
Snape manged to cast it on Dumbledore despite not fully wanting him to be dead. He didn't hate him. Explain that.

>>4587366

Harry and Voldemort were set up as foils as each other. JKR put Lupin and other Order member's disdain with Harry's signature Expelliarmus for a reason. By the end Harry's nobility was vindicated in absolute terms. Harry gave Voldemort a choice.
Voldemort was cornered and as Harry suspected, doomed already. He gave him the chance to try for remorse or make his last mistake and seal his fate. Just as Dumbledore emphasized that Voldemort destroyed himself over time, he ended up literally pulling the trigger also.

It was a way for Harry to avoid the last moral dillema of being a murderer or victim.

>>4587392
Geez what a good message to send kids. Don't worry about facing difficult moral situations where you may have to deal with the repercussions.

You can simply avoid it!

>>4587395
/thread

>>4587392
But what else cold Voldemort have possibly done? Said "I'm out, this world-domination shit is getting too real for me," dropped the mic, and left England forever? What would he do after that?

I like to imagine him engaging in his long-suppressed secondary passion of designing theme parks.

>>4587343
>>4587347

This exactly. Killing someones doesn't do shit. How does killing a piece of someones soul not split your own? Harry, Ron and Hermione all should have split souls. Bullshit

>>4587401
Instantly thought of this from /x/ a few years back

>>4587410
10/10 would read again

>>4587418
There's more to it..

>>4587410
Mr Bones has claimed the souls of the innocent

>>4587418

>>4587420
delivery for Mr Anon

>>4587274
Why didn't Harry and Hermione cast Vipera Evanesca on Nagini at Godrics Hollow? Why did she cast Incendio instead?
Snape openly cast this spell in CoS to get rid of the snake Malfoy summoned. He did this in front of everyone. You dont think Hermione would have picked this up over the years? She knows everything else.

Why didn't somebody just use a Time Turner and go back to when Voldemort was a baby, and smother him in the crib?

>>4586523
Because guns are banned in Britain.
Surprisingly enough, assault wands aren't

>>4587436
Voldemort probably would have some sort of charm in place to counter a specifically anti-snake spell.
Incendio is perfect, who the fuck lights snakes on fire? Who would therefore have a counter in place?

>>4587443
Because the book ambiguously bans it but also utilizes it.

Protip: you're forgetting that Rowling is a shitty author

>>4587436
>>4587446
Nagini was a Horcrux. No spell works. Neville ended up killing it with the sword of Godric Griffindor which was only able to destroy horcruxs in the first place because of Basilisk venom it had absorbed.

>>4587443
Once you're back that far, you're stuck there.
Besides, the time turner could not be used to change the past, as the time travelling self exists in the same timeline as the self from before time travel. Ergo, you cannot use a time turner to kill voldemort, or else it would have already been reality.

>>4587460
Typical time traveling avoidance-of-paradoxes cliche.

>>4587460
>Once you're back that far, you're stuck there.
He's literally wizard hitler, i'm sure somebody would have volunteered.
> Besides, the time turner could not be used to change the past, as the time travelling self exists in the same timeline as the self from before time travel. Ergo, you cannot use a time turner to kill voldemort, or else it would have already been reality.
Well if somebody had had the sense to do it, it would have happened. There's no reason it wouldn't work, and the only reason it didn't happen was because Rowling made the mistake of introducing time travel

>>4587343
Exactly. Harry is a daftly incompetent amateur whose faith was placed in a foolish old man. His ideology on morals would have been his downfall if he had not kept tabs on the true owner of the Elder wand.

There would have been no other way he could defeat the most powerful wizard of all time.

>>4587460
If the time turner cant be used to change the past, then what the fuck did Harry and Hermione do in PoA? What would have happened if they didn't go back in time?

Fucking bullshit storytelling thats what

>>4587466

The way it was written, it was left ambiguous if any of the things actually happened (like Buckbeak dying) actually happened or if the kids just thought they happened. When they went back in time, it showed that none of the stuff that they thought happened actually happened at all...because they went in time to prevent it.

What a great thread. I never thought it would be able to be fleshed out so much. A lot of interesting ideas and concepts tossed around.

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed.

>>4586770
I don't think there is. Voldemort had the elder wand but harry was the master of it. When Voldemort used the killing curse, harry used expellimus, because harry was the master of the elder wand, the spell wouldn't work on harry, Voldemort's spell was backfired on himself. Harry still killed him, he just didn't have to use a killing curse.

There will ALWAYS be missed opportunities in any work of literature, from certain peoples points of view. Harry think's he may be going evil a'lot and has a lot of conflicting emotions, he isn't squeaky clean either.

>>4586516 read this >>4586791

>>4586861
I don't think it's right to say that about J.K's writing. She had a lot of passion for what she did. It wasn't just a money venture, that's far too pessimistic.

>>4586922
It wouldn't work for the series. 7 books have set up the potters and to do that would ruin the vibe.

>>4587055
Because a character didn't do what you thought is logical is not a plothole. I could follow you around for a day and find all kinds of things you "should" have done differently or better.

>>4587113
Harry KNEW he was the master of the Elder Wand. He KNEW he couldn't be harmed by it. He KNEW the spell would backfire on Voldemort. Voldemort thought he was the master of the Elder Wand and was invisible.

Did you even read the deathly hallows?

>>4587113
>, it just doesn't seem in his character to hate

What book were you reading? Harry gets mad as hell on many occasions and definitely hates people, including Voldemort.

>>4587292
>>4587299
>>4587312
I think you guys didn't realize Harry didn't need to try and use a killing curse.

I see it as clever on Rowlings part. Voldemort was tricked into thinking he was the master of the Elder Wand. Harry didn't need to do much at all because he was the master.

Harry pretty much allowed Voldemort to murder himself. That's much less cheesey and predictable than harry using a killing curse and over powering him, when Voldemort is FAR stronger.

If he did that, all you guys would be complaining about how bullshit it was that Harry somehow was more powerful.

>>4587395
No it's more like a karate technique. Use the opponents force against them by making them overbalanced.

Instead of going out guns blazing, use your brain and come up with the best outcome that feels like the right then to do.

Nicolas Flamel is a several hundred year old lich (as he essential is undying) and is of such magical fortitude to create a philosopher's stone which does not meet the threshold for breaking the law in the wizarding world. Where the hell is this amazingly powerful unbreakable character throughout the entirety of fighting Voldemort? We don't even know if Flamel is human; he may be the only human to ever figure out magical elements. Hogwarts protects his stone but he doesn't protect Hogwarts?

Come on, Rowling, you had a chance for a surprise heavy hitter during the final battle but ya blew it.

I think Rowling making Neville the real Boy Who Lived could've turned out fantastic if she did it correctly. It would've also damaged Harry's saviour and hero complex that he got from his father massively.

>>4587886
>Nicolas Flamel
It's like you guys didn't even read the books. When the philosophers/sorcerers stone was destroyed, Flamel and his wife had enough elixer to set their affairs in order before dying.

They assuredly died in the first/second book's time frame.

>>4587898
>Harry's saviour and hero complex
He hated being known as that.

>>4586527
>extensive potterlore
>something that was very explicitly spelled out at length in one of the books

>>4587282

Woah, I forgot how pretty he turned out.

>>4587256
>isn't it a also bit funny that in the whole history of the magical world, there is no other documented case of a person escaping death due to a loved one's sacrifice.

That always weirded me out.
Like wow, a mother sacrificed her life for her child, holy fucking shit, what a shocker, why would a mother EVER think to do that?!
Or is Rowling just insinuating that baby killing is that rarely attempted in this universe?

>>4587299

I don't really remember the book anymore, but it could have easily been a bait and switch.

>>4587966
The difference is that AK isn't something that inflicts something that kills you. It just straight-up imposes DEATH on the victim. That's why it could be countered by love and sacrifice, it wasn't just a physical infliction that led to system failure and then death. Love and sacrifice isn't the kind of magic that can close a bleeding wound or make a heart start beating again, but it CAN counter a direct death curse, because they're both an abstract kind of magic effect.

>>4587999

My gripe isn't with the logistics of the sacrifice saving someone, it's with the fact that we're supposed to accept that, in every single other circumstance of AK being used, in all the however many years it's been around, all throughout Voldemort's initial reign of terror, in all the people that have ever been murdered with it whether connected to Voldemort or not, apparently not one single person EVER made the same sacrifice until Lily.

>>4587256

Doesn't Voldemort say he should have been able to recognize the old magic harrys mum used? Doesn't that imply it's been done before?

The wizards are supposed to be pretty peaceful, minus voldemort and his arsehole friends, so it shouldn't happen too often.

>>4588001
When is it specifically said it was never done before Lilly?

>>4588007

It isn't outright stated, but Harry IS referred to as "the boy who survived". Implicitly, nobody (or very, very few) survive Avada Kedavra.

>>4588001
Voldemort didn't really kill that many people, he operated on a level closer to Charley Manson than to Hitler. The HP society of wizards is extremely small in scale, all concerns are scaled accordingly, and that leaves you with fewer separate instances within a proportionally similar situation.

>>4586315
>174 posts and 32 image replies omitted
>about Harry Potter
no fucking way this is hilarious lol

>>4588019
It's not like we're talking about how good the books are. Many have read them, regardless of how we feel about them, and when someone has a question it's not wrong to answer.

>>4588019

/lit/ has been talking about Harry Potter constantly lately, it's weird.
Mostly just "why is this popular" shit over and over again, but still.

>>4588037
Well, there's been some kind of talk about Rowling in the news, she's writing something or whatever, so that may be a catalyst. Plus the whole trends move in cycles stuff. It might even be the same guy starting all HP threads.

>>4588010
It's "The Boy Who Lived".

How many situations would there be when a mother would sacrifice herself in front of her child out of love?

Voldemort says he should have recognized that magic. There are some implications there.

>>4588040
I think a sequel to her book the cuckoo's calling is coming out. I still havn't had time to read the first.

>>4588031
I love the books.

>>4588037
Actually the reason why I created the thread was I recently watched the movies again and it reminded me of just how much they left out, which got me thinking of what Rowling could have done better with the novels.

>>4588037

>>4586478
>Wow that sure is super stupid that they live in a peaceful society.
We have armies and police forces in order to deter violence before it happens and to respond to it once it has happened. Yes, it is silly that they use disarming and stunning spells on mass-murderers. A society that cannot defend itself isn't going to survive.

>>4588052
>How many situations would there be when a mother would sacrifice herself in front of her child out of love?
probably plenty, but the more important point is, how many would be offered the chance to live if they gave up the child?

the only reason voldy's dumbass had a problem is that he tried to respect snape's request and not kill her.

>>4591946
This.

The whole fucking scene is retarded. So he walks in, kills the Dad. He dead.

Walks up to the nursery where the baby is. Lily is there. OH BETTER NOT DO ANYTHING TO HERE AT ALL TO IMMOBOLISE HER.

AVARDA KEDAVRA

OOPS LOVE SPELL LOL.

Would have been nice if there was character development.

The Harry from the first book is no different from the Harry in the Hallows epilogue. He never grew or changed as a person.

>>4592162
i think he got quite a bit more angsty

>>4592142
>OOPS LOVE SPELL LOL.
heh

but yeah this anon gets it. stun that bitch on entry, kill babby, dip set, ez.

>We discuss opportunities Rowling missed

Human Resources
Being a maid
Dry goods
Waitress
English teacher in Korea
Substitute teacher
Nurse
Golfer

>>4587103
>A bullet could be stopped in its tracks and even reversed on the shooter.

Not if the person getting shot is a mile away from the shooter and it reaches him first than the sound of it, like many modern sniper rifles.

Seriously, Voldemort could've been dealt with with guns so easily.

>>4587181

Fund it.

Seriously, write it. I'd read.

any kind of path where Harry kills someone isn't good since it wasn't meant to be in his character. he's a classic boy hero- the point is that he is more merciful than he is hateful.

>>4591937
Makes me wonder what international relations are like in the Harry Potter universe.
There are extremely few wizards, and their economy is not based on resource extraction, so does area matter to them?
Do wizard states have the same borders as muggle states? Likely not, because muggle state borders change a lot and there's not much about tons of European wizard countries.
Maybe there really are just 3 schools in Europe. Beauxbaton for France, Italy and Spain (Napoleon's Empire), Hogwarts for Britain and Durmstrang for Central and East Europe (German and Russian Empires). For all we know there might just not be any wizard cities anywhere and the schools really do just represent Russian and French city state-like communities.
Is America almost irrelevant because they have no old magical artifacts and traditions? The difference between HP and the real world is, that magic is in a state of decline, so if you have no older person to pass you information, and had no-one creating powerful artifacts from half a millennium ago, you will simply never have such information or artifacts.


I like The Methods of Rationality because it's an interesting take on Rowling's universe, although it is not compatible with her canon. It fleshes out how magic and the wizard society work, but the author is very fedora and it sometimes shows (Harry has irrational beliefs about nuclear weapons and race).

>>4592196

ahahahahahahah nice

>>4591937
>it is silly that they use disarming and stunning spells on mass-murderers
It's not like we kill murderers on sight.

>>4586781
>I'm a humanist/feminist/social justice

jesus christ

are those supposed to be good qualities? sounds like a bad mary sue

>>4586564
You mean the kind of people who think the American government did nothing wrong at Ruby Ridge and Waco?

Voldemort was a victim of self fulfilling prophecy.

If he had just left the Potters alone he would have easily defeated Hogwarts later on.

>>4592196
The idea that teaching is a caring profession typically associated with housewife tasks like cooking, cleaning and nursing probably explains a lot about why english nations under perform in PISA.

this is absurd.
at least half of the people here should read HP books again.

>>4594482
>I'm anti-humans/women/justice

Good Lord, are those supposed to be good qualities? Sounds like a poorly educated and emotionally stunted sap.

you guys are silly.
now I hate /lit/.

>>4588001
I remember Voldemort said that that kind of protection (sacrifice) was "old magic", and that he should've forseen that. I think it was in the Goblet of Fire.

>>4586492
Well, if you think the only alternative to so-called "gray" morality is having characters who are virtually saints, I suggest you read a bit more. This habit of dividing stories between the "good vs bad" ones and the "gray morality" ones is beyond retarded. Morality is a set of judgements first applied by the narration, and then by the readers. Those two sets of judgement can be conflicting. The narration can be ambiguous or even completely silent about the morality of the actions depicted. Hell, the narration can even be a comment on how morality works, is constructed, and evolves. Always requiring gray morality implies that you are still thinking in shades of black and white, while you could think in a full-spectrum of color. I'm all for making our aproach of morality in fiction less formulaic and more innovative, but the craving for "morally ambiguous characters" is most of the time just a bad reflex. All the more so than quite too often what we mean by "morally ambiguous" is merely "has qualities but also flaws".

>>4586985
One of the main features of Voldemort is prideful beyond reasonable. He's exactly the kind of guy who, when he thinks he has been humiliated, will be willing to seek revenge for decades and sacrifice valuable subordinates in the process. Think about Julius Caesar crying in front of Alxander the Great's statue because at the time he couldn't compare with him as a conqueror. We're talking about (at least) that level of pride.

>>4587055
>Voldemort comes off as not the brightest individual.

He's one of the brightest at magic, and is pretty cunning otherwise, but he was never supposed to be Napoleon, strategy-wise. One of the main point of the series is that Voldemort loses because (among others things) his excessive pride. There's a shitton plotholes in HP, but the behaviour of Voldemort is pretty cogent with what we know of his personality.

>>4587158
Now we're on to something

>>4587181
Unfortunately, Voldemort wasn't aware of the Horcruxe he created in Harry. He knew there was some connection between them, due to the magic Harry's mother used to protect him. But he probably didn't knew Harry was a fuckung Horcruxe.

>>4595185
Agreed. Most users seem to be giving opinions on books they read a decade ago.

>>4595116
The guy is idiot, why would he believe in some bullshit prophecy when he's already powerful and immortal. If he really wanted to kill Potters, he can just sent his minions to do it.

>>4599583
Exactly >>4586979 my point.

>>4586315
4 days, 213 replies and 34 images? wow lit

I just came to score some Emma Watson pics. Contributing

>>4600982
god that movie sucked

>>4587274
Because during 1997-1998 (the time of Voldemort's uprising) the unforgivable curses were made legal.

>Hogwarts should have had a school shooting occur in Harry's fifth year, symbolizing the death of "Old Hogwarts" and ushering in the latter half of the series, dominated by gritty realism, mental illness, drugs, murder and snogging.

Voldemort talking to Neville in the books:

>You've got pure wizard blood! We need you Neville! You'd be a great asset to our cause!

Voldemort talking to Neville in the movies:

>I was hoping for better *laughs* We'll find somewhere to put you i guess

>>4601044
Sweet. They should have gone Full-Lanza on the first years. Sandy Hook 2.0

>>4601069
Voldemort and his gang of fuckheads openly laugh at Neville's surname in the movies. Seemed like they toned done his importance from the books.

>>4601016
>>4601016
i wish that emma watsom would sucked... my balls!

An explanation for magic in general. I know it wouldn't have fit the theme of the book but I felt such a pang of clarity during the Deathly Hollows story thing where death builds a river to claim mortals but the wizards use magic to circumvent it. Truly this simple allegory is both the crux and raison d'etre of fantasy/magic.

>>4601112
Here here

>>4601086
Agreed

>>4601136
>Truly this simple allegory is both the crux and raison d'etre of fantasy/magic.
This soinds interesting, please expand. Are you saying that magic is something like technology in that it serves to postpone death?

>>4586315
>>Harry should have utilized the unforgivable curses. At the very least he could have managed to successfully use the Cruciatus curse.
Uh, he did.
>>4587103
>Avada Kedavra literally can't be blocked or stopped in any way if I remember correctly, the only way to avoid it is to literally dodge its path. A bullet could be stopped in its tracks and even reversed on the shooter.
AK's stopped by a marble statue and by Harry hitting it with a stunning spell (Battle of the seven Potters). When Crouch Jr. says there's no countercurse, he doesn't mean it's unstoppable. He means that you can't be brought back from death like you could get rid of, say, a stinging jinx.

Anyway. Where the series dropped the ball was Ron turning from 'Lazy but heroic character smart enough to beat one of his teacher's logical defence pieces' into 'Asshole'. First three books, when he gets into arguments with Hermione, he actually has a point, and the reader can sympathise with him rather than Hermione's almost Slytherin-like arrogance. After that, he drops into a bottomless pit of nastiness, turns from a feasible human being into a cardboard cutout of a mildly misogynistic dickhead.

And then Rowling STILL has him get Hermione for reasons unknown.

I'm fine with pretty much everything else (Although OotP was a disjointed mess clearly lacking a decent editor), but Ron's development was retarded and rather than supporting the rest of the series, it clashes with it and hurts suspension of disbelief.

>>4602014
Oh wow, he used Imperio. The most faggot of the Unforgivable.

And the only reason Harry repelled it with a disarming spell (not a fucking stunning spell) was because Voldemort's wand and his own were twins, hence Voldemort's need for another wand.

Agree with you on Ron through.

append "baby tier magic system for the dumb-dumbs" at your own convenience.

fucking harry potter generation.

>>4603614
He also managed to produce a successful Cruciatus.

>>4603614
Cruciatus'd one of the Carrows.

And nah, hitting the AK and producing pretty fireworks was below Voldemort showed up to take him down.

>>4603637
>"baby tier magic system for the dumb-dumbs"

>baby tier
>magic system
>for the dumb-dumbs

Fairly redundant.