/lit/ - Literature

>>4555907
>Hitler was a bad dude

>>4555918
/pol/ pls!

bumping

the rise and fall of the third reich.

took me forever to read its like 1500 pages but i know shit now.

no simple victory - Norman davies

revisionist history done right, although keep in mind the guy is a rabid stalin-baiter

Hitler escaped and is continuing his UFO spacecraft fleet and alien contact in Antartica.
Look up Admiral Bird

>>4555907
Book turned into documentary, very, very good history lesson and covers all the major events of WW2 extensively.

http://vimeo.com/59027585

>>4555907
"La mort est mon metier" is the best holocaust book you'll ever read OP

>but all I know currently is that Hitler was a bad dude
You are grossly misinformed, son.

Anyways, I have a really great and objective book by an english historian at home which I found in a bookshop on Gibraltar but can't remember it's name right now. Make sure to find a book by a renowned historian because the market is flooded with tons of shitty books by people just being in for the bucks.
Also make sure to cop a book about WWI because both are highly etangled

>>4555907
Read his book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochus_Misch

What does everyone think of The Last 100 Days by John Toland? I know it only describes the end of WWII but to me it didn't seem bias.

The current top of the line work is Evans Third Reich trilogy. Of course it will be hated by /pol/, because yes, Hitler was a bad dude.

>the holohoax never happened
>but I sure love to idealize nazi figures and hope for it to happen again!

Jonathan Littell - The Kindly Ones

thrilling novel, tons of historic facts

>>4555907
The Liberation of the Six Trillion by Shmuel Finkelstein

Read it in my Oppressed Peoples' Literature class, great book

>>4557180
Nah, you can layer on political and social context. Adolf still was a neurotic, violent piece of shit.

>>4555907
The Second World War, Antony Beevor

>>4557180
>implying hitler was anything else but evil
inb4 jew conspiracies!!1!

>>4560590
>Beevor

Isn't he notorious for being biased and pulling stuff out of his ass?

>>4560626
How can Hitler be evil when he was the greatest man in history?
Checkmate Jew enablers

>>4560626
>muh artificial good versus evil historical narrative

>>4560626
You do know that "evil" and "good" are purely relative and constructed ideas, right?
If not - why are you here?

>>4560648
>"evil" and "good" are purely relative and constructed ideas
no.

>>4560648
being responsible for a fuckload of mass killings is pretty uncool by most standards m8

>>4556535
Yess! Byrd knew - he tried to warn us

>>4560723
>>4560733
plebs get out

>>4560636
You'll hear that from Russians who deny the mass rapes.

>>4560733

yeah bro

uncool
what a shitlord

racists are pieces of shit. :C

For the basic narrative, just watch a documentary or get the TTC/Great Courses lectures or something. If you really want a book covering the narrative, a traditional straightforward one is John Keegan's Second World War.

If you want interpretational stuff, that's more difficult, because it overturns with every generation, basically. But I'd recommend looking into AJP Taylor's Origins of the Second World War, which is now a touchstone of argument/disagreement among scholars and will show you the nature of the debates over the subject. Then read a more modern synthetic thing, like Gordon Martel's Origins of the Second World War Reconsidered. Martel is a frequent editor of undergraduate-aimed materials for understanding the historiography of the World Wars.

Also note that you might want to consider learning about WW1 and the interwar period as well. (Again here the TTC series is helpful.) The reason for this is that they're often (usually?) considered as a unit, and pretty much any detailed account WW2 concerned with causation and motivation is going to talk about at least the interwar period. Also Hitler did nothing wrong.

>>4560733
>USA killed a shitton of Japs with their Atomic Bombs
>Russia commited mass rapings in Berlin
>Russia also killed several million people in Holdomor
>England: Colonialism

>Hurr durr hitlar wus da evul guy everyone else was saint durr.

Anthony Beevor's The Second World war is good as long as you don't mind very anti-USSR view.

I really hope a WWIII starts soon and the entire population of earth gets wiped out.
Or the radiation slowly kills us while robbing us the ability to multiple like vermin.

>>4560636
Beevor is a superb popular historian due to his prose and narrative aspects.

As an academic writer he is not the best of all time, yes. He has clear biases and opinions; most historians do.

>>4560811
And yet still Hitler killed more of those people for pettier ends.

>>4555907
If you can read spanish, get "Todo lo que debe saber sobre la Segunda Guerra Mundial" by Jesús Hernández Martínez.

>>4560811
The French also committed mass rape in Berlin, especially the African part of their army.

And as well as the atom bombs, let's not forget about the Bombenholocaust.

The Allies were no less 'evil' than the Axis.

>>4560835
Stop seeing the world in black and white faggot that's all what I ask for

>>4557190
there is no english version

>>4555907
Check your uni library for : "Hitler Attacks Pearl Harbor: Why the United States Declared War on Germany" by Hill because it's expensive for what it is. Then maybe "Who Financed Hitler: The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power" by Pool. There are of course the contributions of David Irving's which get flack for his political affiliations and historical revisionism, I haven't read much by him but quite a few of his books, from what I know, have lauded scholarship. Also, "Gruesome Harvest" a book about the post-war repercussions Germans faced.

>>4560648
You do know that all human notions are purely relative and constructed ideas, right?
If not - why are you here?


fucking retard

>>4560886
you are a huge faggot if you believe nazis crimes can be relativised

>stop seeing the world in black and white
lol this must be the worst argument from someone trying to sound intelligent
r u american?

>>4560911
You sound like someone who hasn't looked much into the topic.

>>4560878
>implying there was anyone left to rape in Berlin after the Red Army had its vengeance

>>4560912
You sound like an American who doesn't know shit about what happened in Europe

go back to ur bacon

>>4560916
>implying you can't re-rape someone

>>4560919
Europeans tend to be in a worse position on that front, with the amount of book banning that goes on.

>>4560926
lol

>>4560911
>you believe nazis crimes can be relativised
Where the fuck did I do that you fucking retard.
Saying other people commited crimes as well is not relativising?
Are you some kind of butthurt Pole? Or maybe a Jew?

Jesus Christ

>>4555907
Battles? Forget it, man. Read the literature.

August Kubizek's memoir about the young Hitler.
Mein Kampf.
Albert Speer's memoir.
I think Churchill wrote a history of the whole thing.

Mini history of the Far Eastern front:

Japan started its industrial revolution from scratch in the 1870s, conquered Taiwan from China in 1895, south Sakhalin and Port Arthur from Russia in 1905 (the first major defeat of the white race by asians,) and conquered Korea in 1910. They has serious ambitions and everything seemed to be falling into place.

China was a mess in the 19th century. The Qing Dynasty couldn't keep foreigners from taking Hong Kong, Qingdao, Port Arthur, Macao, Taiwan, etc. The British mopped the floor with them when the Empire tried to stop them dealing drugs in China; the continued on dealing afterwards. The Qing were fucked and the common people hated them. After they were booted off the throne, China fell apart; it had gangsters and warlords and different republican and communist factions vying for power. Japan took advantage of that and seized Manchuria in the 1920s. Manchuria is fucking big, man. That's like seizing France.
By the 1930s they were in a full scale war with the rest of China. They wanted it all.

The US was starving Japan of oil imports, so they were already behaving in a hostile manner. The Japanese overestimated their power and initiated hostilities.

Germany was allied to Japan, and declared war on the US because they were supporting the UK so heavily that it was only a matter of time; may as well act like they were spoiling for a fight, was Hitler's view.

>>4560942
did i mention anything about other people? did i say that i condoned their actions?
you wanted to be edgy there; first mistake

I never understood why the japanese didn't attack USSR instead of the USA

>>4560943
Source on Germany declaring war? The December 11th speech is well-known to have not been intended as a declaration of war by the Germans against the US.

"Hitler Attacks Pearl Harbor: Why the United States Declared War on Germany" deals with this question.

>>4560951
how would they get to moscow

>>4560963
the germans would get to moscow

>>4560943
I guess I should add that Indonesia was owned by the Dutch, and Indochina by the French; Japan seized these areas too in 1940, so they had already cast their lot with Germany by doing so.

What beats the fuck out of me is why the US got involved via their support for the British. Why support the UK? I can only call it Anglo-Saxon brotherhood, even if both parties pretend to have nothing in common.

>>4560968
so what would be japan's role
bombing siberia where no one lives??

>>4560969
Commercial interests.
This and the fact that Germany's side was clearly more threatened to the global balance of the world; the US always wanted secured trafic and peace to get more money in.

>>4560977
threatening*

>>4560971
not bringing the USA into the war :^)

>>4560957
No source, I just picked it up somewhere by osmosis.

However, I did find this on google a few minutes ago.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/hitler_declares_war.html
"In this way the sincere efforts of Germany and Italy to prevent an extension of the war and to maintain relations with the U.S.A. in spite of the unbearable provocations which have been carried on for years by President Roosevelt, have been frustrated. Germany and Italy have been finally compelled, in view of this, and in loyalty to the Tri-Partite act, to carry on the struggle against the U.S.A. and England jointly and side by side with Japan for the defense and thus for the maintenance of the liberty and independence of their nations and empires."
December 11. Sounds fairly unambiguous, unless I'm missing something? Tangentially speaking, that fucker must have had quite a set of lungs.

>>4560919
>Europeans
>Knowing shit about ww2

Because if we want to get a good history lets ask the least impartial people, right?

>>4561006
>jewish virtual library

Not saying that the site is void of unbiased material, but it's pretty clear that the contributors of this domain name wont go out of their way to amend historical misconceptions. As for the speech, remember it is translated from the original, which may or may not present problems. Even if the best translation seems aggressive, on December 12th German officials clearly stated that the speech was not intended as a declaration of war in any capacity. Additionally, my understanding is that Americans at the time actually believed that Germans had played a role in the attack on Pearl Harbor, with eye witness accounts dubiously claiming that German technology had been seen in the sky. It was also believed that the Japanese were incapable of this scale of attack, this was an obviously racist belief and was unfounded. Obviously, no one believes this today and we instead opt for the December 11th declaration story.

The following link is poorly formatted and lacks the clarity and depth of the book I mentioned but it introduces some of the key problems with the theory of a German declaration: http://www.shafr.org/passport/2002/jun/hitler.htm

>>4561037
>believing history is made of impartial facts
what r u, 12 yo?

and fyi, best historians have always been Europeans, whether you like it or not.

>>4561052
> Ibn Khaldun
> European
checkmate atheists

>>4561043
This makes some interesting points. Fair play for pointing this stuff out.

>>4561037
Know any Eskimo historians?

>>4561052
>believing the european teaching of WW2; especially to plebs, is worth considering

>>4555907
The Rise And Fall of The Third Reich
If you know nothing about WW II it will be pretty a pretty enjoyable read for you(assuming you're interested in it).

>>4556515
>its like 1500 pages
Nigga plz. Try reading Winston Churchill's 6 volume, 12 book series on it.

>>4560648
+1

>>4560969
>Why support the UK?
Let me help you with this question. From what I can see, the entire reason America started getting involved in the war was because of a deal initiated in late 1940 for the acquisition of 6 islands by the United States in exchange for 50 Destroyers being shipped to Britain, which at that time they desperately needed for the tough Battle of the Atlantic ahead. But notably, the reason why this exchange was so intelligent, well-calculated, and significant, is because Britain gave away islands for the US to occupy military bases on. These military bases, some of which were very close to Europe indeed, were to be occupied by the United States navy, airforce, and even military. They killed two birds with one stone: got 50 destroyers and got the United States involved a little bit. After that, Churchill sent Roosevelt an elaborate letter in December 8, 1940, detailing the financial difficulties of having to continually pay the United States for arms and ships to ship across the Atlantic to be used in the naval battles, which were very heated indeed. To this effect, on March of 1941, Roosevelt signed into effect, the land-lease bill which loaned to the production of naval and weaponry forces, not to mention even aircraft production supplies, to Britain until after the war was over.

It was basically by Churchill's persuasion this elaborate compromise existed, and without it, they would have failed to hold on against the continual naval and air warfare Germany thought was inevitably going to go into their favor.

>>4561109
>neonaziantizionistnewworldorderconspirationist

>>4561144
>posting "+1"
>on 4chan

>>4561109
which relevant third world WW2 historian would you recommend

>>4561265
Or better yet, which American one, considering America had less casualties in the war than any of the European countries and wasn't even physically involved until 43

>>4561464
Addendum: weren't physically involved in Europe until 43. They focused on Japan primarily.

>>4561464
nope, their involvement in the war obviously hurts objectivity

>>4555907
mien kampf

>>4560827
So edgy.jpg

>>4562838
Forgot my Bag of sage

>>4558539
Seconded. Probably the most transgressive thing I have ever read; makes American Psycho look like a child's book. Learned a lot of history too. I think the author spent 12 years just doing his research.

>>4560943
Fun fact: Teddy Roosevelt won the Nobel Peace prize by helping to broker a treaty between the Russians and the Japanese.

>>4560811
>usa killed a bunch of japs
>russia killed a bunch of germans
>russia killed a bunch of russians
>england killed a bunch of darkies
>germany killed a bunch of germans
Guess which two are evil.

Thread music: "We're gonna have to slap the dirty little Jap."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ0emX5RgZQ

>>4560943
>(the first major defeat of the white race by asians,)
In the modern age, you mean. Asians shitting all over whities goes way back to bronze age Greece, look up the Scythians.

>Churchill quoted 200 times in writing saying he wants to obliterate the Germans as a race
>Threw the Gallipoli detachment into a meatgrinder for personal ambition
>Orders a firebombing campaign that is much worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki in damage and casualties, with zero trepidation
>Supported Eastern European irredentism and revanchism that led to the war, felt Poland got what she deserved
>Supports massive chemical weapons policy

>Yanks almost certainly had an unofficial "no prisoners" mentality against Japanese and committed innumerable warcrimes thereby
>Develop nuclear bombs and drop them on entirely civilian-filled cities in a petty show of force against imminent Soviet interference in the campaign, and to "save the lives" of servicemen by pawning them off for women and children (for generations), and possibly destroying the planet or half of Asia in the process according to some projections
>Immediately start stockpiling chemical weapons, weaponising every strand of plague and disease they can find, literally including the bubonic plague of the Middle Ages, for the entire Cold War
>Free countless numbers of butchers and psychopaths to get at their medical records

>Russians committed systemic genocide and horrific war crimes with policies mirroring the Nazis' virtually perfectly
>Intentionally utilise psychological warfare by mass terrorising an entire people and brutalising soldiers to want to rape them out of existence as a race

>French campaign after BOTH World Wars to dismantle Germany entirely despite Bolsheviks looming just past the next hill
>Play petty power politics with Eastern Europen irredentists and revanchists as well, inevitably causing crises and breakdown of collective security arrangements that led to the war
>Complicit with Stalin in wanting Russia sliced up and demolished, which would have led to genocide and mass displacement, trivially obvious after seeing what Stalin did to conquered territories and his own people

>Japs experiment on human subjects in China for a bit, then shut down the project because it is inhumane and unbefitting a warrior culture
>Give the tools to British and French Asia to free themselves in the decade after the war's end

>Hitler specifically forbids chemical and biological warfare as inhumane and unbefitting a warrior culture
>Has exemplary, picture-perfect A+ Geneva standard treatment of all POWs except Russians

>>4562900
Scythians were Indo-Aryan, not Altaic.

>>4562942
Shit, man.
What about the Mongols? They trounced Russia and put up a damn good fight against the Poles. Aren't the Mamluks and Ottomans from central Asia? They kinda fucked the Byzzies and the Crusader states.

>>4562933
>"save the lives" of servicemen by pawning them off for women and children

Nope, even worse. There was never actually going to be an invasion of Japan.

The Americans knew the Japanese were trying to surrender at the time, but Americans were purposely vague on what would happen to the Emperor.

The Japanese knew the war was over when the Soviets invaded Manchuria, they knew the Russians would quickly take the Japanese mainland and kill the Emperor, as the quote from one of the lead Japanese politicans at the time was "they had no problem killing their own emperor, why would they have issue killing ours?"

Not a single general agreed with dropping the bombs, it was Truman alone who did it, largely because he was a racist fucktard and wanted to see the Japanese suffer (read reports on how he acted when news came back from Hiroshima, he went around laughing, saying it's a great day as the nips are burning and shaking everyones hands while everyone else was disgusted) and to show off to the Soviets.

>defending bourgeois capitalist powers because they're "better than fascists"

What are some good books that focus more on the individual aspects of the war? Like a single battle, or a soldier's perspective during his tour of duty and whatnot. Fiction or Nonfiction. Hell, I wouldn't mind reading about WWI as well.

>>4562933
>felt Poland got what she deserved
Well that's wrong. Winston Churchill said Britain would have gotten involved with the defense of Poland if the French upheld the Franco-Pole treaty.

>>4564651
Obligatory Ernest Hemingway post.

>>4564573
>using the term "bourgeois capitalist" unironically

fuck off back to the 19th century pls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEDPOPr7qiY

Best 45 minutes on WWI - II you will ever listen to.

is there anything on yugoslavia during the war? it seems to go ignored and it would be cool to read about

>>4565103
The term bourgeoisie has faded, but they haven't in form.

>>4565116
Yugoslavia during the war: 'leave me alone plz'

>>4565126
okay well what i really want to read about was the serbian conflict in ww1, that's what most interests me that i have trouble finding anything on

>>4565123
No, I mean that hatred of "the bourgeoisie" is infantile stupidity. The only thing worse than a bourgeois is somebody that complains about the bourgeoisie. If you are a prole that hates the bourgeoisie then learn your place, you dumb prole. If you are a bourgeois that is trying to incite the proles to hate the bourgeoisie then you are the scum of the earth.

>>4565116
There is very little in English, some in French I believe and quite some in Serbocroat.

Then there is John Irving's novel Set Free the Bears! which is quite a picaresque way of seeing the conflict.

>>4565137
And you are a retarded faggot. There will be a rebellion. It is literally only a matter of time.

>>4565083
International opinion of Poland's treatment of its interwar Galician Ukrainians, Germans, Byelorussians, and Lithuanians were not good. Right from 1919 on Poland was seen as kind of rapacious.

>>4565143
>There will be a rebellion.

Everyone keeps saying this...

>>4565143
Yeah, and after the rebellion the elite bankers will only seize more control; you dumb fucking proles keep playing into their hands. The Revolutionary Party is always more ruthless and authoritarian than the regime that it overthrows. Learn from history ffs.

>>4565148
everybody knows it was actually poland who invaded germany they just made up the lie that germany invaded to hide their butthurt

>>4565137
>The only thing worse than a bourgeois
You're closer to the edge of consciousness then you think.

>>4565159
cont. Marxism is just a messianic religion. It's Judaism for discarded Christians. "The Revolution of the Proletariat" is the Messiah and "Classless Society" is the Kingdom of Heaven. Stop basing your hopes and desires on this sinister plot. Marx was in bed with the Bankers ffs; socialism/communism is just the Bankers seizing absolute control. The Bankers have always FUNDED socialism/communism.
Remove the scales from your eyes.
Believe in the true Messiah, Jesus Christ, and stop believing in the Jewish fable "Revolution of the Proletariat"; it's a false Gospel.

>>4565151
>Th-the p-proles will n-never rise up, r-right guys? h-h-hehe

You don't have to have any definite political bias to know change is inherent within any system, broseph.

>>4565159
>>4565170

>>4565191
I am serious, friend. It is extremely important that you sever all ties that you have with socialism/communism and repent of ever having praised or lent support to it. It is nothing more than the nefarious plan of the psychopathic elites to create a State massive enough for them to control the population like a farm controls cattle. They use the masses' envy of the Bourgeois' wealth in an Hegelian Dialectic, "either you're on the Bourgeois side of oppression or on the Socialist side of freedom!" Hegelianism, pure deceit. Socialists claim to be liberators but they are not. Look at the Coat of Arms for Fabianism (a Socialist organization): a wolf in sheep's clothing.
"Capitalism" is not perfect but "Socialism" is worse than Capitalism. You have no right to rebel against "Capitalism", no right at all. In reality, Western Society is already 90% socialist it's just that they keep you dumb plebs begging for more enslavement by using the "Capitalism vs. Socialism" dialectic. Stop listening to your professors; they are fucking shills, false preachers.

>>4565211

>>4565211
Not sure if troll or Joseph McCarthy

Starting to think the world really would've looked better if Hitler won.

>>4565211
It's actually like I'm experiencing the red scare in the 50's.

Pls go COINTELPRO

Watch The Great Dictator.

Pretty much the whole war summed up right there.

>>4565369
>Starting to think the world really would've looked better if Hitler won

>>4565640
In no way am I a fascist, but this pic made my day.

>>4565640
you must be a pretty naive person to take this picture seriously

>>4565656
Of course I take the picture seriously. I truly want a fashist government where everything is perfect and only aryan master race is left.

>>4565664
666 get

>>4565656
Welcome to the desert of the real.

>>4565656
>I can't conceive of a society where people aren't hedonistic, selfish, useless degenerate retards

Do you ever think that's because you live in one?

Have you seen the wedlock rate since the glorious collapse of statism and rise of FREEDUM? The divorce rate? Teen pregnancy and promiscuity? Drug and sex culture, STI rates? A million other things? When you obliterate the family unit, the oikois, the smallest irreducible component of a real functioning society, and replace it with a bunch of welfare babby hyperindividuals who just want to masturbate all day and think working for their daily bread is tyranny, it pretty much directly creates the situations on the left in those pics.

>Oligarchy then degenerates into democracy where freedom is the supreme good but freedom is also slavery. In democracy, the lower class grows bigger and bigger. The poor become the winners. Diversity is supreme. People are free to do what they want and live how they want. People can even break the law if they so chose. This appears to be very similar to anarchy.

>Plato uses the "democratic man" to represent democracy. The democratic man is the son of the oligarchic man. Unlike his father, the democratic man is consumed with unnecessary desires. Plato describes necessary desires as desires that we have out of instinct or desires that we have in order to survive. Unnecessary desires are desires we can teach ourselves to resist such as the desire for riches. The democratic man takes great interest in all the things he can buy with his money. He does whatever he wants whenever he wants to do it. His life has no order or priority.

>>4565211
It's coming off a little strong but it's more or less the case.

>>4565170
You might be interested in a text called "Pursuit of the Millennium" by Norman Cohn. He details a bunch of fanatic religious groups that became more frequent with the coming and onset of the first millennium. The book suggests a connection between these proto-Marxist redistributors and fanatic religious eschatology.

>>4565715

Go to /pol/ to discuss muh degeneracy with your other disillusioned middle-class white friends.This thread is about WWII.

>>4565715
You are only finding what you are looking for. I find your fascination and sole focus on debauchery, Intriguing to say the least. You come of as a degenerate in denial.

>>4560919
Germany is objectively superior to the rest of Europe. They should be allowed to conquer it. Just look at what England has become. It's absolutely disgusting.