/lit/ - Literature

>>4503184
Hell yes, Vonnegut's best book.

Someone rate my entry-level pleb taste.

>>4503275

2/10 book

0/10 taste

The Heart is a Lonely Hunter

>>4503184
I think Slaughterhouse-Five is much better. >>4503275
Good stuff. >>4503271 I found this really boring.

Always will be my favorite.

Really annoying fanbase though

>>4503416
Fanbase has nothing to do with the work anon, I hope you feel the same way.

Hard to pick a favorite, but I have deep-seated respect and admiration for "V."

It's totally jaw-dropping to think Pynchon had finished it and published it by age 26.

>>4503442
Great book, though I like some other Pynchon more.

I will probably get shit for this from some but Infinite Jest is my favorite, apart from being a brilliant novel it rekindled my love for books and helped me to get over some personal problems, sounds sappy I know.

Probably The Brothers Karamazov or maybe even Jane Eyre

My favorite is the waves by Woolf

>>4503184
7/10
>>4503275
8/10
>>4503302
8/10
>>4503381
8/10
>>4503416
6/10
>>4503470
8/10

>>4503481

> listening to Pixies, Swans on youtube
> the waves
> "it's just waves you fucking retard I.."
> glance at bookshelf
> "oh lol I guess it is 'The Waves'"

>>4503494

P.s is it really so great? I loved mrs dalloway, to the lighthouse, orlando and some essays. I have the waves and the years on my shelf unread atm.

>>4503184
10/10 because also my favorite book

>>4503512

Lotta kids on this board lol

>>4503499
:D
Most of all it's just different. To me it is the culimination of Woolf's technique[approach].
Since you are already familiar with her style you will be well prepared for it.
If you loved her work you will probably love this one as well, it's just more Woolf.

>>4503515
>book has accessible prose
>SHIT BOOK GO TO BED KIDS

>>4503518

>>4503534

Accessible prose and hopelessly childish and juvenile perspective.

>>4503518

I read this in French when I was younger, but failed to see why it was good. I barely remember anything from it, just someone in New York and another in a jungle and someone getting shot in the belly or something.

Should I reread it? Pitch it to me.

>>4503578

>accessible prose

Is that a bad thing?

>complicated prose

Is that a good thing? Do people write to be understood, or to be thought as too far above common understanding?

A genius makes complicated things accessible, a hack makes simple things look complicated.

>muh super edgy take on narrative processes

Hacks. If you got shit to say about narrative processes, write a fucking essay about it. If you got a good story to tell, tell it.

>>4503203
10/10
>>4503271
9/10 muh aldous Huxley nigga

>>4503871
My favorite is brave new world

>>4503275
high school/10
don't really mind it being your favorite, as long as you read other stuff

>>4503416
what's wrong with the fanbase? I like it, although I'm not part of any clubs or bullshit like that.

>>4503686
>Is that a good thing? Do people write to be understood, or to be thought as too far above common understanding?
some great books have complicated prose. It can be a weakness, but it can also have better rhythm, etc. Also, some ideas can't be expressed in simple terms (e.g. a Riemannian manifold)

>>4503915

You can explain complicated things in a simple way, which will still require sophisticated words and such.

You can explain simple things in unncessarily complicated ways. People who seek complexity for complexity's sake are hacks.

It shouldn't be more complicated than it needs to be. You can have rhythm with kids' words, diction isn't a parameter for this.

>>4503915

Then again, I found Moby-Dick to be written in a very accessible manner but realised lots of people thought it was complicated.

I found Pynchon obscure, more than complicated, and I can't say I like this sort of bluff too much; it's just like Lost or Prometheus. it's not smart, it's just bluffing, pretending to have something to show by not showing it and making people want to see something that doesn't exist.

Loved this novel

>>4503950

Ya lol Joyce and Woolf were such hacks lolol

Go back to your catch 22, vonnegut and salinger please. The Great Gatsby is really going to blow you away when you read it senior year of highshool lol

Hamlet

>reading books

plen

>>4503203
The Invocation to Light is one of the most brilliant and complex sections of literature I've ever read.

>>4503275
Very funny. Strange that none of his other stuff was up to par, though. Required war reading.

>>4503302
Didn't like it as much as some of his others. Check out the Red Cavalry stories

>>4503310
Probably in my top 10. Absolutely loved it. You read any of her other stuff? Try In Dubious Battle

>>4503442
Maybe the best "first novel" ever.

>>4503518
Loved it.

>>4504038
Didn't like it. I feel like Schultz was still developing his style. Pity about the novel that was never uncovered -- might have been great.

>>4504038

I wouldn't pick Schulz as my No 1, but that fact that you did makes me think that you read other good stuff. Who are your other favorite authors?

RIP in piece david

>>4503950
>I found Pynchon obscure, more than complicated, and I can't say I like this sort of bluff too much; it's just like Lost or Prometheus. it's not smart, it's just bluffing, pretending to have something to show by not showing it and making people want to see something that doesn't exist.

You don't understand his writing, but rather than admit you had difficulty understanding a book and suffering an injury to your pride, you are naturally more comfortable making the claim that there is nothing to be understood; doing this will maintain your inflated sense of self-worth, at least until you encounter another work of art that you don't understand.

>>4504363

>Hamlet
>favourite book

>>4504446

That said, his last two were kind of weak, bub. (and this is coming from someone who thinks Pynchon is for beginners who haven't gotten to Gaddis yet...)

>>4504422

I don't have a favorite book, but that is definitely the best Faulkner and he is definitely the best English speaking writer, so it must be close, at least.

>>4504055
10/10

Mine until now.

>>4504355

If you were right and sure of it, why be so insecure?

>>4503950
this is the second time i've heard this kind of comment regarding prometheus? what's the issue people take with that film? when i watched it, it was a bit slow and pretty boring, but there didn't seem to be anything confusing in it. like, maybe it doesn't tie things together in the way that your average disney film does, but you can project most of that story back and forth, and a big evil that's hidden under the surface is not a new concept, it's pretty much the basis of lovecraftian horror.

one of the big lessons you're supposed to take from the po-mo scene is that the desire to know can be just as powerful, maybe even more powerful, than actually coming to know. you're supposed to play with the web of possibilities, that's most of the fun--and it should be fun. if you say "well there's no way to know for sure, therefore i will not even try"--that's fine, you're allowed to do that if you want--this is all still only entertainment--but that sort of defeatist attitude does mean you end up missing out on an experience than other people aren't going to miss out on. personally, i think if you can draw nothing from these kind of unclosed stories whatsoever, that's an indication that you either 1) spoiled the book for yourself before hand by reading other people's opinions or wikipedia or 2) you completely lack imagination--and neither of these are failures of the book itself.

>>4504446

What makes you think I don't understand Pynchon? Why do you take such pride in understanding a text? The point isn't whether I understood or not; I'd have very little to say about Pynchon if I hadn't understood his writing. Not liking something doesn't mean you don't understand. I understand Communism and I don't like it either. It isn't that complicated, you know, Pynchon. Only relatively smart people think it's much to be proud of, and I personally think it's pretty shallow and stupid to take such pride in understanding an author. Who does that?

>>4504518

We're not thinking of the same things about Prometheus. I don't mind mystery, I quite like it, but I felt like Prometheus capitalised on its holes rather than its story. The whole plot felt like a first act rather than a full movie. Once done, apart from the characters and their behaviour, and some technical stuff, I felt like I couldn't judge the movie because I'd have to wait and know more. I sure had fun writing endless threads about the movie, figuring out how the black goo works and all, and that was good, but that's not exactly part of the movie.

As to Pynchon, himself saying he has no idea what he meant in some sections because he was high on drugs at the time doesn't exactly make me feel like there's much worth to it. I may be wrong, but that's from the author's mouth. If you know better than Pynchon himself, maybe you should check that ego of yours.

>>4504516

Insecure? Wat?

>>4504556

When someone challenges something I'm pretty sure about, my reaction isn't insults and scorn and other insecure reactions like that, so I'm curious as to why you're insecure.

hey guys should i read the snopes trilogy

>>4503905
>don't really mind it being your favorite, as long as you read other stuff
otherwise you'd mind?

>>4504567

> presuming your conclusion like that
> you are x because I react differently

So you're just really stupid then? Hey good luck on the book report though, grade ten is tough!

> everyone who has ever insulted someone or said anything scornful is insecure, always

See when you make up stupid shit like this you lose the privilege to a real argument. I see this so fucking often it's unbelievable. Someone will throw out an absurdly ridiculous statement like... say "Shakespeare is bad" and then when someone else rightly calls him stupid he chimps out and is like "wut wut you can't handle being challenged? Prove me wrong, ad hominem, nice ad hominem, get a real argument". What you said is that comlicated prose (so Joyce, Nabokov, Woolf, Faulkner and Pynchon) are all hacks, a statement you barely qualified by saying that the complex prose means they have nothing to say.

Why do you expect to be taken seriously? You half threw out a shitty argument to justify an absurdly reductionist and ignorant statement.

>>4504568

Yes.

>>4504615

I made a hypothesis, that you were insecure because of your words. You keep confirming. You're either insecure or dumb. Your choice.

Insulting people isn't always insecure, but when it's online, in perfect anonymity, it is quite insecure. Why would you assume anyone cares that you're insulting someone or something? Why do you think you matter this much? If you said anything interesting, you'd matter, but insults are bland, especially on 4chan. Why come to the literature board to do what anyone can do on /b/?

I can only hope it makes you happy.

>>4504617
thanks bruh I knew i count on yall

>>4503184
Fuck that's a hard question. So many amazing books... The one that jumps to mind for me is probably Blood Meridian. I absolutely love Cormac McCarthy's prose, and that novel is amazing.

>>4504621

I called a spade a spade. You said that complex prose is for hacks who have nothin to say. That was stupid, so I said "hey that's stupid". Now you're being even stupider but forget it, all authors who write with complicated prose are hacks... You are right and the other 99% of readers who find worth and meaning in those authors are wrong.

It only took you half a paragraph to debunk a huge swath of literature and dozens of lauded authors. Good for you for being totally right and not at all stupid

> uh oh I am disagreeing with you and therefore insecure

>>4504446
This.

>>4504547
no, i'm not smarter than pynchon, but obviously neither are you if found prometheus to be incomplete. it's really really really not that deep. everything IS there. most classic literature beyond maybe the realist movement requires more power of inference. prometheus is basically at the mountains of madness-lite. if you genuinely struggle to tie prometheus together, i'm absolutely not surprised you fail to enjoy pynchon's work.

it's also sort of ridiculous to equate a statement of a lack of understanding for certain sections (from someone who jokes a lot) as a proof that everything he writes is meaningless. maybe some sections really aren't that clear, that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy trying to piece them together. (the way i've described it might sound like work, but it's not. if you're well read enough, these things should happen on the fly). i mean, to a different but relevant example, kafka laughed his ass off writing his stories, and they are funny at times, but that doesn't mean they aren't also terribly sad.

>>4504652

We don't agree on what is "complex", I suppose. I said obscure prose is for hacks, by the way.

>>4504675
>it's really really really not that deep.

But that's what I found to be wrong about the movie...

There's nothing mysterious in the movie to me. I believe I've understood everything one could humanly understand from it.

>you can enjoy piecing together automatic writing written on drugs

Sure, you can also piece together bits of dried turds shat by mental asylum inmates and you might even enjoy it, but I'd rather read a book instead.

>>4504676

> will never admit to havig said something wrong or stupid

lol I bet you think you're so smart too

>>4504055
yup

>>4504411
I'm not really well-read, it's just that in my country Street of Crocodiles is required to read in highschool, at least a part of it in my case. After reading that part in my coursebook I immediately loved it and bought it right away.
Anyway, my other favorite author is Bohumil Hrabal. I have more, but we already talk about them all the time on here, so it's pretty pointless to recommend them.
I highly recommend Hrabal, my favorite book of him is Beatiful Sadness. Closely Observed Trains and I Served the King of England are very good too.

>>4504547
>As to Pynchon, himself saying he has no idea what he meant in some sections because he was high on drugs
Source? I'm supposed no one's called you on this.

loved it

>>4504682
> I believe I've understood everything one could humanly understand from it.
>Once done, apart from the characters and their behaviour, and some technical stuff, I felt like I couldn't judge the movie because I'd have to wait and know more.

if you actually understood the film, you'd know why these two statements are in-congruent. this is not meant to be an attack, because i think it's quite understandable if you haven't seen them (a lot of people here are pretty young), have you seen any of the alien films? because all you should need is a minor, minor knowledge of them to draw prometheus to a close.

and again, you're acting like it's all work or serious. po-mo books are fun, sad stories written for and by people who had/have grown bored with the staleness of regular literature. i don't mean to be condescending, but if it's so laborious/un-fun that these things peripheral to the book factor in so much in how you come to judge them, maybe come back to them when you've read a bit more. because the enjoyment you've failed to derive, that's not inevitable nor is it universal. there's a reason people love these things, and it's got very little to do with people sitting around wanking off at the author's intelligence--fundamentally, they present the same heart-felt stories, they just do them in ways that are irregular.

>>4504687

>lol

Yes?

>>4504702

>"I was so fucked up while I was writing it . . . that now I go back over some of those sequences and I can't figure out what I could have meant."

>Thomas Pynchon

>>4504792
That's not a source

Pynchon is excellent btw

>>4504055
Should one read the original or the revised version?

>>4504934
>That's not a source
source?

>>4504527
Unless I'm mistaken, the anon you're talking to never said anything about being proud that he understands Pynchon. This can have implications to your understanding of text, when you just invent things for your own sake.

>>4504792
Is that from Slow Learner?

les miserables, and i don't even like hugo, but there is God in that book

>>4505347
4/10
8/10

>>4505347
4/10
>>4505647
8/10

I've seen film adaptations of some of the above, so I'll refrain from rating.

>Tfw no Stanley Kubrick adaptation of Vidal's Julian.
Just coming off of Tom Jones this book gets published. Ah!

>>4505738
pretentious fuck with 0 literary knowledge that pretends to understand it / 10

I-I haven't read many books, though.

>>4505937
Guys do you consider it good? I forgot to ask. Because I had made a thread a couple of days ago, asking for opinions for books by Bucay and I got no answers.

>>4503470

I'm actually just getting to be about 2/3 of the way through this thing, and I'm loving it.

Conventional but unavoidable.

>>4505995
Nice cover!

>>4504491
Hamlet is more of a book then most of what traditionally is considered to be such and is imbued with far more real content than "books" like Catcher in the Rye or Ulysses.

>>4505995
I have this edition—such a pain in the ass to read

>cat's cradle

I know absolutely zero about Vonnegut's book but did you guys know that pretty much every human culture on this planet knows the game of cat's cradle? Even extremely remote indigenous tribes.

Probably my favorite book series of the few that I have read. Im not a very avid reader but I would really like to start reading more. What would /lit/ recommend I read?

>>4506121
>make beautiful complete works compilation for a wonderfully cheap $20
>no footnotes

Barnes & Noble are a bunch of niggers

If you haven't read this, do it.

And then read Sorrows of Young Werther and laugh.

It is kinda cliche but it was the most amazing thing I have ever read. I wanted to start all over again as soon as I finished.

>>4506146

OT, but where are people finding full covers like this (i.e., front, back, and spine)? I've seen a couple around here the past day or so.

>>4505647
10/10

Also my favorite.

>>4506542
It was just one of results on Google images. There might be a website for it but im super new here so I have no idea

>The
>Judge

>>4506563
hnnnnnng

Allow me to save this thread by saying

ASK THE DUST

>>4505006
Not same person, but The Magus is one of my
favorites (if not favorite). I first read the revised
first and later read bits of the original. I would
recommend revised, for the prose in many
spots is noticeably better and some scenes
towards the middle and end of the novel are
redone, adding a lot more emotional depth.
That said I definitely recommend the revised, which is probably all you'll find anyways.

My-Favorite-book-that-makes-me-look-cool: All the Kings Men by Robert Penn Warren

Actual-Favorite-book: The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson

Does it matter what Vonnegut I read first?

>>4506818
i read Breakfast of Champions first, which wasn't the best idea because he purposely wrote it to end several story lines of characters in other books.

In some ways it's like a "greatest hits"

I love this one.
It is like House of Leaves but less gimmicky.
I still believe that the spoilered title will be remembered if only for its experiments in graphical design.

>>4504642
>>4506743
Fuck yeah guys, I was hoping I'd hear some McCarthy in this thread, and Blood Meridian is my personal favorite as well.

I also quite enjoyed the Road, but Blood Meridian was his opus by far. The judge is just the best archetypal evil.

>>4503381
i agree, slaughterhouse-five is amazing to read

>>4506818
Not 'sirens of titan' or 'mother night' and DEFINITELY not 'timequake' although save that one for a later. Cats Cradle is probably the literary masterpiece and cultural cornerstone, but Slaughterhouse certainly has its brilliant bits...

...Read 'Harrison Bergeron.' You can find it online and read it and be forever changed. If you can't decide wether to laugh or cry, you're right. Welcome to tralfalmadore.

Yeah.

>>4507272

This is pretty much what made me read prose. I was 15yo and had read absolutely nothing before. It was a great revelation to me that I could enjoy fiction.

>>4507326
11/10

either pic related, the waves or invisible cities

>>4503405
Muh negrito

>>4506523
I am reading this now for the first time and am enjoying it much more than I ever thought I would. I just finished Book V "Pro and Contra" and it might be one of my favorite collection of chapters in any book ever. I spent a good amount of time yesterday looking up analyses of the Grand Inquisitor. Pretty stoked to read the rest.

too late?

>>4507736

(a different commenter) The Grand Inquisitor gets treated a lot in isolation, but it has a definite place in the book as a whole. Dostoyevsky himself stated that 'the whole novel serves as an answer' to the claims made in that section. What follows in Book VI is significant, as are the thoughts and actions taken by the brothers in the rest of the book. Enjoy the rest of the book; it is a masterpiece.

>>4507433
I really wonder what makes it even someones favorite Calvino.

While it has a lot of interesting and cool things, especially some of the short stories are really mediocre for Calvino.

>>4507331
I know that feeling bruh

>>4507768
i agree with this
i think the gimmick is just really strong and it's the most famous one because muh postmodernism

>>4507816
>amous one because muh postmodernism
kek

>>4507768
What do you prefer? Invisible Cities? Marcovaldo? Cosmicomics? They all have a weak parts, but If on a Winter's Night a Traveler has a strong enough overarching narrative for those weak parts to seem unimportant. Don't get me wrong, other Calvino books are great, but I think IoaWNaT is the best of the lot.

>>4504590
Honestly, not overrated in the slightest. Time-weathered and classic. The fact that a well-known film was exhumed from this book (that was enjoyed by many who never read it) makes it hatable for some, which I don't get. Still a favorite.

Probably this one, but I'm not sure...

>>4507764
Absolutely incredible. 9/10 experience, but maybe that's because when I read it I was an edgy high-schooler.

closely followed by The Clown

>>4509735
i saw that book a Goodwill and i was like
"damn"

i love finding books i've been wanting to read at thrift stores.
i already had American Psycho and mine is better condition, but i got it in case someone wants to borrow it.
I love that book.

>>4509735
fedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedorafedora

>>4509779
I haven't read the idiot, but I've read Notes and Crime and Punishment, and I'm reading Brothers K right now. is The Idiot as good as the stuff I've read? I fuckin love Dostoyevsky

>>4509780
faggotfaggotfaggotfaggotfaggotfaggotfaggotfaggotfaggot

>>4509783
It's fairly slow, and nearly all of the focus is on relations between characters
Definitely worth a read, character development is amazing

>>4503686

>implying that literature is intended to convey information rather than to convey an aesthetic effect

Honestly, I don't mind genre fiction, or more plot-based works in general. But not all literature is plot-focused... It's retarded to claim that an artistic style should be chosen because of it's efficiency in conveying information. To what end? Most people probably don't read literature to learn shit.

That other anon was right to mention Woolf and Joyce... Maybe you don't like their work, but it's not like they were just trying to be difficult for the sake of being difficult.

>inb4 someone quotes Joyce on making Ulysses difficult enough to keep critics busy for 100 years

I feel like I can go back to this volume every day with fresh eyes, it's consistently fun to read.

>>4505647

I love this novel, but holy fuck if that chapter with the priest pontificating isn't tedious. Yeah, yeah, I know that's probably the point, but still.

Worth it for dat prose, doe.

>>4509735

Reading this right now. I'm not that far into it, but so far my experience hasn't really been superior to watching the film. Hoping that will change soon.

>>4506976
nabokov sucks

>>4509867
>Hoping that will change soon.
It will.
I felt the same way about the book. It seemed too much like the film for a while, but you'll soon see it gets a lot different.

I love the movie and the book, but the book is more true to the "psychopath" experience.

>>4509364
>>4506743
>>4507385
10/10

>>4503470
I wanted to get back into reading so I got this book. I think I stopped somewhere after about the 2nd or 3rd chapter. You may have just convinced me to go back and start re-reading it again.

>>4509867
Trust me, once you get into it a little bit, it speeds way up.

It really goes into his mindset and it's like you are actually reading a journal from an insane person. It's so great.

Hopscotch by Julio Cortazar.

Had the blessing of Spanish being my native tongue. This book is my literary bible.

>>4511157
great book

well except a typical american good guy mahasamatman (shortened to sam) is kind of funny

i like 'creatures of light and darkness' more though

>>4509779
Dostoevsky is always good

>>4506176
10/10 bretty good

>>4503442
Good novel. Germans in Africa was an incredible section of a book, along with the play with lesbians. Other parts were lackluster for me.

This. Great book, loved everything about it.

Between this and Franny and Zooey by Salinger

>>4512252
An incredible book but the ubiquitous french got really annoying. The Guardian's annotated books podcast does a terrific abridgement of it.
Certainly ties with Pale Fire Nabakov's best.

>>4509885
>nabokov sucks
that edge

>>4512361
>"x sucks"=edgy

In search of lost time.

It's relaxing and beautiful.

>>4512398
I just started Swann's Way and am enjoying it immensely.

How long until this thread gets prunned?
i want to keep it open to save some recommendations

>>4512398
doesn't count if you're reading a translation btw

>>4513922
Quite a while. Atleast a day.

>>4513939
what doesn't count

>>4512462
7.5/10, definitely a great story. I didn't care for the love interest part that much doe

>>4504055
This.

>>4514005
Yeah, it went downhill there a little, though I think it was the logical conclusion to have the story move forwards like that. It was the situation that really got me - Hump and Wolf and their interaction.

>>4505783
>being that mad because someone rated your book 4/10

Only people who dont read books have favorite books

>>4511986
9/10

Just finished it (in Rabassa's Translation) and it fuckn killed me dawg.

Love Cortazar 5ever

>>4514052
This.
Same with films, comics, video games, etc. After a certain point you've read so much it's hard for you to run with just a select few books as definite favorites, and when you attempt to your list would change based on mood or other seemingly random factors.
Easier to name recommendations based on something specific, such as genre.

>>4503518

so good.

>>4503184

>>4514052
This. I usually just shrug and say Infinite Jest or something, not because it's the best candidate for my favorite - it's not even my favorite DFW book - but because it's an example of the kind of stuff I like that most people know. ("The kind of stuff I like" being pomo/popomo lit, not "shit" or whatever witty DFW-bashing comment you had prepped.) If I were to say Gravity's Rainbow or J R, I might throw some people for a loop, but most decently educated people have at least heard of Infinite Jest.

>>4514406
>but most decently educated people have at least heard of Infinite Jest.
I am studying literature, and I never heared anyone outside of /lit/ mention Infinite Jest.

It's not particularly amazing, but something about it makes me want to read it every time I glance at it on the shelf.

I'm not into that rating bullshit but here's a book I really like

Also Ficciones

>>4507764

one of my top favourites as well. IMO Kundera's writing is phenomenal.

>>4507764
this is another one of those author's most famous books where i don't get why it's the most famous and popular one

>>4514480
>Look at cover
>See a bunny
>Enlarge thumbnail
>See a seal
>Blink
>See the bird that it is.
Ooch me 'ead.

>>4516087
I can't see the seal

>>4516578
The bunny's ears are the head.

>>4516087
Dammit I also thought it was some kind of seal/otter with wings.

>>4507764
I've read it a couple of months ago, it's good, but it's way less than I was expecting.

Everybody get fucked.

>>4505647
Agreed 10/10