/lit/ - Literature

>>4333426
They got to the party first, sorry. Also, they're the ones who make the decisions.

literature is a social construct

oppression and racism and sexism

>>4333426
>99%
F. Did not show your work.

These questions are why we can't have nice things.

Stick with your stereotypes people.

define 'great literature'

You're a white male in a culture of white males. Of course you're most familiar with the efforts of white male. Ask someone in China what the ten greatest books of all time are, you won't see a white guy's name on the list.

>Replying to troll threads

WHAT LANGUAGE PABLO?

>>4333426

I've been trying to get into books written by women and blacks.

It seems black literature is mostly not always but mostly about class and racial tension.

I just can't relate and it makes me uncomfortable.

Also there needs to be more literature written by eastern Asians.

I only know of a few authors.

>>4333463

And don't respond with Tao Lin.

>>4333463
>It seems black literature is mostly not always but mostly about class and racial tension.

Yeah. they're boring as fuck too.

Seriously. read one. read them all.

>>4333460

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/world/asia/popular-books-in-china.html?_r=0

chinese people are plebs

>>4333426
-> http://i.4cdn.org/lit/src/1386116447144.jpg

>>4333463
>>4333473
Pathetic

*99% of great literature you know is written by white males

Races with the best literature.

Europeans > Jews > East Asians > Arabs > Indians > sub-saharan africans > australian aboriginals

>>4333475
That's globalization for you. If the Americans consume it, then it must be good.

They're the dominant voice for obvious reasons in the high modern era (roughly 1800-1950) unanimously considered the peak of literature and art on this board.
In the era soon to come there will be great authors of all races

>>4333450
butterfly pls go

>>4333481
I'd say the people writing endlessly writing books about how oppressed they were are the really pathetic ones.

>>4333488

>implying abbo scum can read let alone write

I'm not even Australian and I can tell you those apes are lower than our blacks in America.

>>4333475

>beststelling foreign titles
>foreign

>>4333494
>In the era soon to come there will be great authors of all races

>>4333502
>implying white Australians can read either

>>4333488

>jews above east asians

The Diary of Anne Frank is good but come on. There are plenty of Asian books better than it.

>>4333502
I know. That's why they're in last place.

I think the only abbo books that exist are ghostwritten, and about the same crappy pity story we've heard over and over again.

>>4333496
It's more than one person Jewman. For every one that leaves another two pop up, so on and so forth. Soon, we'll all just be butterflies flitting on the winds of 4chan.

>>4333507

u fuckn wot m8 i'll kick u in ur bloody arse

>>4333509
JD Salinger was jewish

>>4333507
This is funny because Australians actually suck at reading, they rank nearly last in reading comprehension of all the english speaking countries, if my memory serves me correctly. I think Aussies just want something to feel better about.

If it was a sexism thing women would have just written under a male pseudonym.

They just don't want to try to write anything revolutionary...

>Jew books

>always about the holocaust

>Jew books not about the holocaust
>always business books on how to make and save money

>>4333519

The Asians will save them though since half that country is nothing but East Asians now.

>>4333522
ah but you've forgotten Portnoy's Complaint! Semen! Semen everywhere!

>>4333513
try n catch mi bru

>>4333496
JewmanMenorahSupreme, that's "Sarah" (I think he's English) the copycat. I posted the link to The Alphabet Vs. the Goddess.

Otherwise, I don't care for this thread.

Are there any good modern Chinese/Taiwanese authors?

Don't you dare say Tao Lin.

>>4333463
I assume you've heard of Murakami and Yukio Mashima?

>>4333498
The cure to your insecurity over being a cracker isn't to keep blaming the Blacks. Try to have the character to accept the facts.

>>4333543

Those are Japanese fool.

>>4333520
no they were oppressed by the patriarchy which made them not want to write books

>>4333426
White women didn't have the same educational opportunities for an extremely long time.

More importantly, why do the irish have such a disproportionately large representation of good/great authors?

>>4333547

oops thought you were responding to this post

>>4333538

>>4333426
You know that "history is written by the winners" thing? It's kind of like that.

>>4333549
also, different cultures different strokes, neckbeard

>>4333550

Because all they do is drink and with drinking comes writing.

Bunch of drunks.

>>4333545
>facts

Your feelings don't translate into facts.

Keep crying bitch nigga. your tears are delicious.

>>4333550
Different cultures excel at different things, the irish are the exception to the Protestant literature/Catholic cinema divide

>>4333552
They're good authors, but they're still Japanese bruh.

>>4333550
all the dumb irish who couldn't figure out how to eat things other than potatoes left ireland for america when the famine happened

>>4333475
>popular
>great

Guess what's popular in the West
Go on, guess.

Now let's see how many you got right
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/bookselling/article/55383-the-bestselling-books-of-2012.html

>>4333569

Twilight, Hunger Games.

>>4333575
50 shades

>>4333569
Oh my god EL James wrote third rate smut and must be rolling in money right now

>>4333569

This is disgusting.

>50 Shades of Gray
>Bill O' Riley Papa Bear

>only books that became popular because of film adoptions Life of Pi, Cloud Atlas etc

>>4333578
>>4333575
Considering the biggest market for those books is women, this doesn't help the case that most women just aren't cut out for literature.

>>4333569
That's because in America, only old people and middle-aged women go and buy new books from Barnes & Noble. Also, e-readers are also probably most prevalent with those demographics as well. If you're on /lit/ it is unlikely you pay for books new (or at all) and so do not even factor into this list.

>>4333585

Well fuck you anon I buy books from used book stores and thrift shops.

I never pay more than 3 bucks for a book though.

>2013
>paying 30 dollars for a book

Harry Potter mofo

JK Rowling is one of the greatest female free thinkers on the planet.

>>4333590

You're a wizard Harry.

>>4333590
she's a marvelous woman, indeed

>>4333597
Not too bad on the eyes either.

>>4333597

Is Casual Vacancy any good?

>>4333606
I haven't read it, but my girlfriend wasn't really impressed. It deals with a lot of the ugly realities of the world though, so you might find it interesting enough.

>>4333603
to each his own

>>4333522
Someone doesnt like Roth

>>4333632
Her fortune makes her slightly more attractive than if she were still homeless. My standards are not high however.

>>4333545
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_writers

I was interested by your criticism about the previous post, and did some clicking around. Id say 80% of the authors (closer to 99% before 1970) write about the exact same subject matter.

>>4333590
JK Rowling was clever because she realized she could be really successful by writing magical realism for children instead of the standard fantasy fare available at the time.

>>4333643
Why wouldn't they all write about the same thing? Prior to 1970 racial prejudice was still for the most part acceptable and the South was still doing its damnedest to oppress African Americans. If you want variety, look at the white man's writings, he's never been enslaved.

>>4333463
>there needs to be more literature written by eastern Asians
The Chinese language literary tradition goes back something like 3000 years, yo, and throughout the dynasties reading and production of literature were viewed as essential to the lifestyle of the elite. Plus the population wasn't small. Basically... there's a whoooooole lot of literature written by East Asians. Like, crazy amounts.

>>4333669
Tao Te Ching is pretty good, although I'm sure it depends on how you are reading it.

>>4333669
yeah the problem is that almost none of it ever gets translated

>>4333672
The trick is to read it... backwards.

。。。名常非名可名道常非道可道

>>4333675
Well if you've got some free time, I'm sure you can learn Chinese online somewhere.

>>4333681
yeah the problem is that Chinese is hard as fuck to learn compared to pretty much any other language

>>4333554
"Winning" in this context doesn't prevent you from writing a book.

>>4333679
Interesting, I'll give that some thought.

>>4333658
>Why wouldn't they all write about the same thing?
Is this a serious question?

>>4333689
Don't, I just completely made it up.

>>4333693
You sly bastard, luckily I've already read it forwards. Good show.

>>4333658

Wow, you make it sound so simple that it makes me question if you are this stupid or just saying things without a previous reflection.

To OP, I really don't know. The argument that black people didn't have access to education makes total sense, but what about women? If someone is willing to give a thoughful, non-reductionist answer to OP's question I would be grateful.

Women tend towards being great only with heavy amounts of social support. Of course that leads to group think and lack of innovation.

>>4333696
You do realize that racial oppression played into the content of African-American writings, correct? I wasn't trying to give an entire portrait of why black writings address the same subject, but trying to give a rebuttal to those who seem to be butthurt that African lit. largely addresses oppression, racism, and prejudice. Tell me oh smart one, what is the true reason white people are so much better than everyone else? Where did I go wrong in my judgment? How am I to sleep at night because I don't live up to your standards of intelligence? Also, how is your political science degree coming along?

>>4333691
It's a fair point. If we're talking African-Americans, then experience of racism and having a black identity is an absolutely massive part of their culture, and you'd expect a lot of writers to focus on that- particularly as early African-American literature was presumably closely linked to civil rights movements. If you've got what it takes to write a novel and you/your family/your 'people' are being oppressed in some big stupid anger-provoking way, chances are you'll write about that oppression.

Plus of course once a few of these books appear reader expectations and market considerations kick in, and the whole racial angle will be exactly what publishers are looking for. It's possible that the greatest middle-class-Jewish-American-intellectual novel of all time was written by a black guy in the 1950s, and it rotted away because dammit, the public wants to hear about the black man's struggle.

>>4333701
>they've been oppressed, so the only thing they can write about is oppression
do you seriously not understand why this situation is retarded?

>>4333696
Women didn't have access to education either, perhaps?

>>4333426
They've been the only holders of career freedom and general privilege for all of history - 99% of great lit to date has been written by white males because 99% of lit written has been by white males

>>4333704
It sounds silly because you're exaggerating. Here >>4333643 someone (you?) put it at 80%, and that's an entirely random guess based on a wikipedia page of doubtful usefulness. Oppression is a huge deal, so it's a huge deal in their writing, yes. But it's not literally 'the only thing they can write about' - as is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, in more recent years, as oppression has lessened, African-American authors have written about a wider range of subjects.

>>4333704
I don't recall saying that is all they write or could write about. However, a demographic's literature is going to address the issues that are most pertinent to its community at large. Prior to 1970, the African-American community was still largely oppressed, so their focus was mainly on the prejudice, racism, and oppression they faced which is why these topics were prevalent in their writings and given the most attention then and today. Would you mind giving me more insight though on your part, instead of resorting to simple insults? I might have been rude in my initial reply and I apologize for that but you are offering no sort of point in contrast to mine.

>>4333705

Nah, at least not in the US. Women's rates of college attainment are related more to career expectations than oppression.

http://www2.econ.iastate.edu/classes/econ321/orazem/goldin_college.pdf

>>4333711
>>4333721
I just have issues with the notion that someone could ever be ok with an entire race of people writing about one thing. Once it is clear that none of this is happening, I'm fine with y'all.

>someone (you?)
nah it was another poster.

>>4333707
>because 99% of lit written has been by white males

But that's fucking wrong.

> unanimously
lol nope

>>4333734
I'm not okay with it, but that is/was the state of it unfortunately at least in the majority. I'm not entirely certain on the state of contemporary African-American lit., however I'd be interested in seeing if it has changed at all or if they are still trying to address the issues of the last two or so generations. The African-American community did have to address those issues in their literature prior to 1970 at least because they needed to utilize every avenue to challenge racial oppression. That which is heralded as "classic African-American lit" largely deals with all the aforementioned themes because that is what was needed to be seen by both those within the community and out.

Alexandre Dumas?

In any event, I think black people in America should be more cohesive. They should set up their own publishing houses and such, and print out their own books, whatever it may be. I doubt every black person is walking around thinking only about being oppressed. They are human beings and are capable of telling stories, so maybe that's where they should start.

>>4333797
Keep dreaming, faggot.

>>4333797
You do realize that everything you just said, is not particularly the case anymore. There were and probably still are black publishing houses. There are African-American writings that encompass more than the subject of oppression. Are you American? Do you hate black people? They aren't ignorant fucks, no more than any white person.

>>4333819
Not him, but I'd argue that because they are disproportionately affected by poverty they are thus incidentally more ignorant on average. I know that's a "racist" thing to say, but no one has a problem calling Appalachians ignorant idiots when the conditions are pretty similar, economically.

>>4333585
Why shouldn't it be the same for the Chinese as well?

>>4333819
So you're saying that there are no ignorant fucks?

>>4333824
and what about IQ differences??

>>4333797
He was only like 1/8 black. His books were also shit.

>>4333819
Sorry. I did not mean to offend. I am not an American. I was not aware black publishing houses existed.

What I am trying to say is that black people in America are being economically and culturally dominated. Things that only matter to them, is provided for them by not-blacks, who profit from it. They don't seem cohesive enough, especially since the 1970s. It isn't a level playing field.

>>4333824
Fair enough, I'd say that anon's statement was considerably more ignorant and/or racist than yours. Let's face it, Black or White in low-income areas public education is just producing a generation of ignorant idiots.

>>4333854
You can thank an over-dependance on a welfare state and a deep contempt for all things deemed intellectual (and therefore evil and white)

>>4333854
>black people are being dominated

What makes you think other groups for example whites are not? For the most part, things that only matter to them are provided by Jews

>>4333860
Honestly I'd go further than that and say American public schools in general are breeding a generation of idiots too delicate too fail but too spoiled to pass. And it's only going to get worse. Can you imagine being taught this tripe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGph7QHzmo8

>>4333854
>I am not an American.
>black people in America are being dominated
Please spare us. The average white has no social power either, it's all about money now.

>>4333862
This will become a bigger player across demographics going forward.

>>4333873
>all about money now
Don't I know it nigga.

I'm in college right now and I have a basic media studies prerequisite. The professor was talking about black representation in network television and he pointed out the TV show "Flip Wilson." He said that the show had a well integrated cast and that it attempted to just ignore race altogether. He started criticizing it though, because he felt it didn't touch on "problems in the black community." I actually thought that was really racist. Just because the show is headlined by a black guy he is morally obligated to talk about race issues? Isn't that blocking him off from doing what he wants simply because of his race? It's an example of how being overly cautious of not being racist actually makes you really racist.
The professor is Latino and proud of it, if that means anything.

>>4333911
trying to be colourblind is idiotic. your professor is right, you're wrong.

>>4333916
So a black comedian MUST talk about black issues or else his comedy isn't as good as a white guy that talks about random things?
That's idiotic.

>>4333916
>black people are obligated to talk about how black they are
Just let them be normal people, holy shit. I've had it with stupid white liberals trying to act like they're competing to see who is the least racist. This shit is fucking retarded.

>>4333911
That is rather silly. It forces all black people into one basket and forces them to only deal with "black problems."

>>4333426
first is not that the 99% of literature is written by white males, is just that 99% of literature you know is written bye white males.

second .. white people burned a looot of works in the countries they opressed.
There are also written works that nobody can read because they killed entire populations of people that used those languages.

>tfw we dont know how many Otelos, or Quijotes we miss .

>>4333911

That professor's a cunt. No one's under a moral obligation to hype problems that groups they're a part of suffer from. Those problems probably aren't even unique to them.

>>4333928
Its probably why dave chappelle was popular. He talked about black issues at times especially on his tv show but in his stand up a lot of times he just talked about things in general.

Go figure one of the better black comedians is the one who branched out of black people problems a little bit.
>then he went fucking crazy.
>oh well

>>4333964
>>>/tumblr/
>>>/srs/
>>>/somethingawful/
Take your pick, all those places might be more suited to your opinions.

>>4333964
Can you show me some of the countries that Europeans colonized that were already very literary or had any sort of established literary tradition, by any accounts? I'd imagine a lot of interesting mythology and folklore was lost, but I seriously doubt we lost someone on the level of Cervantes.

>>4333972
somethingawful has SJW?
and people pay to be there?

>>4333998
well ur jus raciss

It's not "bullshit." White males have a long, intricate tradition of literary storytelling that has been evolving for thousands of years. I mean, if you feel insecure about your race/gender's output of good literature, that's ok, but it would be in everyone's best interest if you would stop projecting these insecurities unto everyone else.

>>4333964
The evil white oppressors burned all the great works of literature? Right... keep telling yourself that.

God I hate /pol/

>>4333911
lol American academia is such shit

>>4334042
Why? Because they don't agree with you?

>>4333998
for example African countries have been writing for centuries.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1924486,00.html

But there is only one Cervantes even in the spanish tradition so I guess your doubt is fair. However we sure lost a lot of interesting works.

>>4333494
>unanimously considered the peak of literature and art on this board

Wait, really? I thought this board worshipped the later twentieth-century?

>>4333998
China. Dream of the Red Chamber and such.

>>4333426
Because for most of history they were the only ones who were educated enough to be able to write in the first place. . .

>>4334068

>latter 20th century

Man, where the fuck have you been?

Eh, before modern conveniences women were too busy with housework and what not, so men wrote the most books, period. That said, some of the books and manga that I consider masterpieces are written by women, so I definitely think 99% is a bit harsh.
But no, women are dummies, lets put down other categories of people so that we can feel better about ourselves, I gotcha bro.

99% of science and art and ethics thank you white males.

>>4334091
That is truly insulting to other cultures. You're basically saying that Confucius, Siddhartha Gautama, Dogen, Rumi, and many others were uneducated.

>>4334094
I mean, IJ, GR, and Lolita were all written post-1950, and Joyce is towards the end of the period the other guy was talking about.

>>4334111
**In the English speaking world
There, happy?

>>4334111
I think he's talking about Western literature and primarily addressing the "male" part of it, rather than the "white" part. Also, the thread doesn't seem to really be about religious works, so I'm not sure Confucius, Buddha, or Dogen are the best examples.

>>4334102
>before modern conveniences, women were too busy with housework

That is blatantly untrue. Women have been generally allotted more free time than men because of the leisurely nature of housework. Men have had to work to provide for their families.

also
>manga
lol, you seem like a really credible poster

>>4333972

>people can't change their mind
>group think is encouraged

>>4333998

The Mayan burning was particularly heinous because it also resulted in the loss of an entire form of writing, which was only rediscovered until recently. They also had a very unique view, having developed in isolation of most of the literate world.

The second worst burning was not by Whites, but by Asians in Baghdad. It ended a golden age of learning in Persia.

Ethnicity isn't particularly meaningful in understanding why book burnings happened.

>>4334110
You're welcome.

>>4333701
>>4333658
The Irish were hugely oppressed by the British. Arguably more so than africanamericans were. Yet their writers have always had a hugely diverse subject matter.

>>4333964
I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not.

I hope it is.

>>4333488
>no mention of latin americans
0/10 apply yourself

>>4334054
Don't you get it? Only HIS opinions are allowed on /lit/ you shitlord!

>>4334842
They aren't a race

>>4334849
How?

>>4334849
>categorising literature, of all the crazy things, by race

>>4334847
>the use of shitlord in a thread like this

Well I never

>>4333522
So many people forget Kafka

>always business books on how to make and save money
I have never seen these books

>>4333590

I hope this isn't true. All she did was wrote towards a demographic. When in genre fiction hasn't this been true?

>>4335306
Gee, it's almost as if /pol/ makes shit up about ethnic groups in an effort to exclude them. But that couldn't be right, surely?

>>4333529
Is your pic real?

>>4335313
Look, you're obviously the same poster as:
>>4335310

>>4335306
Der Hungerkünstler wasn't about Jewish persecution, right?

>>4333426
None've suffr'd so deeplie as the white manne; thus, these are the moste artistic. Th'onlie groupe e'er to've suffr'd the more is th'homosexualle white manne; thus, theese rite betterr e'en yett.

>those people saying that black literature are all about muh blackness and that they're all boring and the same

Seriously, how have you not heard of Machado De Assis? He's on /lit/'s exit core picture and Harold Bloom ranks him as one of the best black writers of all time.

There's loads of other good dark-skinned authors in latin american literature.

White males don't have to deal with oppression or spend their lives struggling for any kind of social justice.

White privilege leads to boredom, coupled with heightened expectations of achievement leads to any number of existential crises, critical thought, etc. And some people chose to write about it.

>>4333426

Maybe it's because white males are the greatest writers?

>>4335342
>Seriously implying the people who make those claims even read black authors in first place

nigga, no one gives a shit about what stupid crackas think anymore. we pomo now

>>4335352
>obvious troll jpg

>>4335342
>implying /lit/ reads anything that's not american

Men > Women

Whites > everyone else

Combine the two and you get great literature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

why is every single book written about a white male about how white they are and often the privileges of whiteness? can't they write about something other than being white? are they that much of talentless hacks or what?

Because whites are the creators.

Everybody else are leaches.

Where would the world be without whites?

>>4335342

>Machado
>Black

Brazilians don't use the one drop rule.

>>4335342
>Machado de Assis
>black

mein sides

>>4333494
>In the era soon to come there will be great authors of all races

>>4335471
a paradise

>>4335471
>western canon
>highly influenced by judo mythology

Stay white!

>>4335433
>men and women
what about genderqueers and self identified ponies?
help, i am being oppressed

>>4335471
the chinese would have eventually discovered industrialism and colonized america from the west

>>4335493
why are queers oppressing me. help, my masculinity is under attack. i need sum hemmingway to cure dis faggettry

>>4335486
>judo mythology
This sounds cool as hell. Does it involve various deities repeatedly throwing each other onto mats?

>>4335502
>Anonymous
It's spelt Hemmmingway you pleb.

>>4335450
>germs
>gun
>steel
why isnt divine grace included in the list?

>yfw the greatest american author was a woman

>>4334054
Not him, but the regurgitated talking points are awful. I hate leftist feminists too, but they arent in every thread spewing their shit.

>giving Jews (who are just humans) credit for absolutely controlling the world
>give race supremacy over social and historical influence

Just shut up about it already, we all know the arguments on both sides, it doesnt need to be brought up in every thread.

>>4335502
you forgot to tell him to take off his fedora, mr cliche
>you.... are just insecure

>>4335509
>come to "le last bastion of freedom of le internet"
>complain when you dont see enough political correctness

>>4335507
Because it can be inferred from the other three factors.

>>4335450
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail
makes Jared Diamond look like a complete hack and he got butt blasted on WNF's all out obliteration on his extra flawed theory

>>4335516

>"le last bastion of freedom of le internet"

What the fuck am I reading?

>>4335516
It's more like there is too much "anti-political correctness" for stomaching. Not EVERY thread semi-related to a controversial issue needs to turn into reactionaries shitposting loudly.

>>4335551
this

>>4335524
its a great book too

>>4335516
do you know where you are? this is the "reddit" of 4chan I'm willing to put $0.50 if we ask >>4335551 what he means by "reactionaries shitposting loudly" he'd give us something about /pol/ or ancap's or lolberterians

>>4335564
indeed, their appraisal of Rome was kinda meh but it was pretty solid otherwise. what do you think about China?

>>4335577
it was ok, my favorite part was regarding the extractive nature of the Kongo Kingdom and pre-agriculture Anatolian societies.

>>4335551

Not really. Post modern identity politics is dead and in a reactionary spiral. Identity was never an accurate concern, it was just salient. Look at how liberals in California have embraced prop 209's effects on college attainment of blacks.

Look at all these sociology majors try to discredit the race that dragged humanity out of the gutter and into space.

Don't thank us. We'll turn the light on for you...literally.

>>4333426
leisure

>>4335711
"Damn jamal you got a job?"

"nah nigga i am leisurin and i get that green da first of the month."

"shiiiiit you betta be writin a magnum opus"

"nigga i aint writin shit but i do got dem magnums"

"niggy you crazy"

>>4333488
>Jews
Good at music, shit at everything else involving aesthetics.
Not sure why.

>>4335721
DKM