/lit/ - Literature

He hits the nail on the head again. Based fucking Žižek

My girlfriend is into getting choked.

She almost passed out last weekend and started jerking on the bed and snorting before coming round eventually. She said it was fine, but I'm pretty wary of doing it again.

>>4320984
You're oppressing her either way. Leave her.

>>4320984
Cool, dude. Cool.

Very Lacanian.

Wasn't the entire second wave feminist movement just a bunch of female students of Lacan who resented how he said that women can't communicate or know what makes them orgasm?

He kind of has a point. How often do we see depictions of female arousal made by women? Never.

Do feminists actually reject the fact that some women have rape fantasies? I think both agree that the contention is over what a fantasy constitutes, not whether the fantasies are real.

One of Zizek's best skills is setting himself in opposition to someone while saying the same thing (not surprising for a student of Stalinist ideology?); you see it when he talks about post-colonialism too.

>>4321001
Well, the female orgasm is a bit like the male nipple.

>>4321005
Feminists believe it's constituted by internalization of patriarchal ideology; Lacanians/Freudians believe it's constituted by hysteria.

>>4320975
>'If what [neurotics] long for the most intensely in their phantasies is presented them in reality, they none the less flee from it',

Is this true? I've been anxious about getting what I want, but I don't think I flee from it.

>>4321005
There are probably some feminists somewhere who do reject that - there's plenty of crazy people around, especially on the Internet. But it's not really useful or answerable to ask what feminists as a body think.

>>4321012
I don't understand.

>>4321020
Exactly.

There are some videos on youtube of Zizek's visit to India where he talked to a pressure group that fought for the rights of the 'untouchable' caste. It touched on interesting stuff on identity politics: rather than being proud and wanting to be tolerated and 'loving what makes [them] oppressed' in Zizek's words, the untouchables object to the very caste system that makes them untouchable in the first place.

I swear to god if 'The Naked Ape' was required reading for the entire human race half the stupid shit people argue over and conceptualize would disappear from existence so fast I'd have to call up X-files and report it.

>>4321035
give me the tl;dr

>>4321015
Myabe because you aren't a neurotic (someone who has disturbing and obsessive thoughts which he cannot even control).

>>4321035
>evolutionary psychology
>from the 60s

>>4321013
>internalization of patriarchal ideology
Well,on Culture and Its Discontents Freud talks about the superego being born from a long process starting with the Patriarch repressing the rest of the tribe's erotic desires, so it makes sense for the feminists to believe that (in Freudian terms).

>>4321035
Everyone agrees this is pretty updated by now. Some of Desmond Morri's thesis are very misguided.

>>4321092
>updated
outdated
fuck

Does anyone have genuine rape fantasies? I think people have "safe rape" fantasies in which there is no danger and certain boundaries won't be crossed.

As a gay I object to such fantasies being indicative of a structure of oppression because it's just as fun to be the sub as it is to be the dom.

>>4321020
>>4321021
I chucked

>>4321147
I have fantasies of dominating women and giving them the rape they always dreamed of.

It helps being not ugly, I think. And I read Anais Nin so I know how they like it.

>>4321147
I'm a girl and I've always struggled with the idea that deep down all I really need is a confident, ambitious guy to look after who will give me attention and rape/use me whenever he wants.

It's like this is what I really want, and studying etc is cool but I don't know whether I want to be an "independent female" or have just been told over and over that this is what I want.

>>4321164

Yeah and I like the same idea but from both sides. With my current boyfriend, I'm the "master" but with other guys, I would enjoy the more submissive "use me" role. Both of us want to be independent outside of the bedroom though.

Shame that he's to sub to ever dom me ;_;.

>>4321164
I am that confident, ambitious guy.

Let me fold you into my arms, babe.

>>4321164
>>4321183

This is not rape then.

It's like the guy from above talking about choking his girlfriend, it's not rape.

>>4321164
You know shit's fucked when you can't even work out if you've been brainwashed by patriarchy or feminism.

The only advice I can offer is to give that kind of relationship a try and then reflect on what it is you really a want.

>>4321193

Yeah, but I doubt that anyone (sane) wants to be dragged into an alley and fucked violently while fearing for their life and that rape fantasies are really more like the ones described.

>>4321164
>tfw no self-aware gf

>>4321193
Then no one has fantasies about true rape. It's always, I want a good looking person that I would consensually agree to have sex with, to rape me violently because I can't work out the situation in which consensual sex is likely.

>>4321164

Unfortunately, I think most women feel the same way.

The older I get, the more I've started to question what I was taught about feminism. There's something deep within me that rejects their narrative, and it seems more likely that feminism as we know it was promulgated by women who either resent men or aren't really attracted to them at all.

The problem is that its so deep in our culture now that if I say anything against feminism, I'm either snubbed or called out as a traitor to my sex. Its like this whole system has been built up to push me into a life that I really, really hate living. It'd be so much better if I could just stay home, look after a husband, and raise children without feeling guilty or getting snide remarks from "career-focused" bitches....

Now I bet 100 women are going to yell at me. :(

>>4321223
Those feels.

>>4321219
It's still wouldn't be rape...it literally stops at the 'I want...'

>>4321243

Except if you change your mind later, after it happens, when you realize it was something you didn't want. Then it's rape.

>>4321378
It's rape when the guy is ugly.

>>4321219
>>4321207
The fantasy is to make yourself into an object here. You want to be taken into a situation you have no control. Safe rape is still an illusion, not a realization of your fantasy, but a way to trick you for a moment, a roleplaying game to believe that the other is using you, while both are in perfect control. That's why they have weird safewords to make it stop and cut the spell of the fantasy. Otherwise, you'd be asking yourself whether that "no!" scream is an actual call for an end and you won't be able to engage.

This is not just about rape, but about all fantasies as well.

Say that your fantasy, sexual or otherwise, is going to materialize at your front door. Realization is just there. Now you open the door and you get the box of imagination from SpongeBob and I'll say to you all you have to do is to picture it yourself. Wouldn't it be extremely disapointing? That's why the call for an adventure in heroic stories needs to be something he stumbles upon. You cannot induce yourself into making these fantasies come true. Your fantasy is "what if that happened and I was put in this position?" and therefore putting yourself on it can't go farther than roleplaying.

>>4321223
The whole idea that it's necessary for women to pursue careers is specific to liberal feminism in capitalist society. Marxist feminists don't see anything wrong with being a house wife and focus on getting compensation for unpaid housework.

>>4321223
This is an awful age to be living in. I guess I will order my wife on the internet from Russia or China.

>>4321400
>The whole idea that it's necessary for women to pursue careers is specific to liberal feminism in capitalist society.

That's arguable. I'm tempted to say it's a flat-out canard.

Most of the early feminists were wedded to Marxist or left-anarchist movements, and preached women's liberation from patriarchal systems of oppression -- which focused on bondage to their husbands, extolled "free love," etc. Read the works of Emma Goldman.

Both capitalism and Marxism push women into the workforce, fracture the family, and promote the type of feminism we know today.

It only makes sense if you assume that every woman fantasizes about rape, and even if you do, he does not differentiate between degrees to which this fantasy is consituiave of the female subjectivity. It's bullshit. This 'reading of rape' only applies to women who fantasize about rape, so it's really not a reading of rape as such, but of a minority of rape cases. All of this apart from the fact that it's just generally wrong and Zizek a hack.

>>4321476

I've yet to sleep with a woman who doesn't enjoy being dominated. I'm sure they exist -- but I'm willing to bet they're a slim minority.

Rape seems an extreme extension of this dynamic.

In fact, second-wave feminists came to a very similar conclusion, which led some to reject sex with men entirely -- due it's essentially violent and invasive nature.

>>4321476
It doesn't matter if every girl, three, two, one or no girls fantasize about rape. You're misreading it, that's not the point. The matter he is addressing is that this fantasy itself is forbidden in our social order. And the lie that he is criticizing is that if a woman does it, it is assumed that she is internalizing the male attitude. It is only natural for our fantasies to lie outside social order, but in this stance, it is not merely neutralized through censorship, but it is made illegitimate by the judgment of another. If a woman were to say she fantasizes about rape, she will be immediately discredited as if her fantasy was not her own, but borrowed from the patriarchy.

If you want to get more practical about this, consider that a woman that is raped was not only violated physically, for she would feel extremely guilty if any pleasure is taken from it, she is taught that she can't fantasize about it. And as he said, it does not make it into a justification of rape, it is more violent, it is made shameful for the woman. That's why raped women often do not admit they were raped. In order to conserve herself as a subject, she must not admit herself as an object and the feeling of shame can only be held by a subject and she is forced to feel it, constrained on another level. She is left wondering "what have I done to deserve this?" rather than admiting herself to be the object of this violence she can't control.

>>4321476
Zizek isn't making those assumptions at all though. He's merely describing how cases of the fantasy can be explained by hysteria.

>>4321164
>I'm a girl and I've always struggled with the idea that deep down all I really need is a confident, ambitious guy to look after who will give me attention and rape/use me whenever he wants.

Funny, I struggle with the same conflict of desire and I'm a guy.

>>4321223

> Its like this whole system has been built up to push me into a life that I really, really hate living.

You mean the life of a wage slave? You mean the life that men have always been expected to live? It's like females aren't even aware of their privilege

My girlfriend has a rape fantasy.

All I know is that it gives me a confused boner.

>>4321013
>Feminists believe it's constituted by internalization of patriarchal ideology

Are there any notable feminists who suggest that rape fantasies might be due to a vestigial, evolutionary biological mechanism?

The notion that it's entirely caused by environmental factors seems doubtful.

If she's into it and she she's it with a competant sexual partner. But I think that as someone who has had rape fanisies (me being the victim), its very convoluted and accelerated from what take is actually like. Rape is so much more painful emotional than our fantasies allow us to grasp. Blue strange it is that I still desire to be dominated when I've experienced resale firsthand. ..

>>4321832
>Blue strange it is that I still desire to be dominated when I've experienced resale firsthand.

Women and men have natural roles. It's too bad the society is trying to destroy that rendering both sexes unhappy in the process.

>>4321464

I don't know the literature on these topics at all, but it would seem to me that Marxism doesn't necessarily need to be invoked in gender studies. I suppose social pressures can be created to put women into the workforce if there is a labor demand, but capitalism seeks generally to undermine full employment.

Marxism can certainly make powerful commentary on the commodification of sexuality, and frankly I see this (not feminism, not traditionalism) as the most dangerous threat to romantic love.

Also, has anyone else noticed that gender studies/feminism/seuxality are absolutely dominated by LGBT and women?

It makes sense that these individuals would gravitate towards a more serious study and analysis of the social conditions that spawned their particular identities, but doesn't this create a serious problem for the field?

>>4320975
>trying to philosophize a conclusion to a question best addressed by social science
god, philosophers are such blowhards.

>>4321854

Philosophy doesn't really have boundaries, although I get your point.

>>4321164
As a confident a man, I don't think you, as a woman, should even be allowed to speak on this subject. As a woman it's your role to be modest and submissive. When you go around saying things like this:
> really need is a confident, ambitious guy to look after who will give me attention and rape/use me whenever he wants
You leave the impression of immodesty and sexual perversion, something that would scandalize any man that you were with. What you ought to have said is, "I want an upstanding, responsible man to be the partner whom I have children and raise a family with".
Saying that you want to get used/raped is exactly the kind of mentality that leads to the Burka and the barbaric muslim view of women in general.

>>4321852
>Also, has anyone else noticed that gender studies/feminism/seuxality are absolutely dominated by LGBT and women?
yeah all the normal people are out fucking each other or doing real jobs

"Fantasy" and "Subjectivity" aren't at the "core of our being" as that degenerate Jew Freud and his offspring would have you believe.

>>4321831
Thats one of the core points of Psychoanalysis, sexuality is something build, there is not a gen that makes you "submissive" or homosexual, or makes you digg fat girls, lick boots, or any weird fetish.

>>4321871

Oh boy. It's troll-o'clock already.

>>4320975
The small excerpts of Zizek /lit/ posts makes me think he's retarded. The parenthetical at the end is about the one sentence which would get a stet for even an online publication. I deeply hope this man is only ever quoted from his blog, drunk posting at 3am to fans, whenever he is referenced here.

At "standard feminism" I assumed there were no goalposts in Eastern Europe, so they are where one says they were whenever ones says they were, but anyone who has seen Escape to Victory or Két félidő a pokolban knows Poland's shithot and willing to break arms over football.

>This is like saying that Jews fantasize about being gassed in the camps
This is like saying neither Žižek nor feminists know what stalags are.
>mfw 50 Shades of Grey is the Stammlager of civil rights era feminism
>mfw I had no face because it melted in the glorious symmetry of the Jewish reaction to privilege and duty imbalances

The dumb'd down Freud would have been insulting even if I hadn't learnt from /lit/ it is a key underpinning of many of his arguments. Saged because I have nothing valuable to say outside of pop phenomenon. Good thread for that. Someone do let me know if it's a drunkpost.

>>4321917

I hope this was a drunken post anon.

You wrote like more words than Zizek and you managed to say almost nothing.

Congrats.

>>4321938
Rum posting. It makes me want to hug you not no u anon so it's all good.

>>4321843
Can this be proved empirically?

>>4322621

Pregnancy... varying genitalia... varying strength...

comparison with closely related species...

Yes it's full-blown fact, insofar as anything can be full-blown fact that is established empirically.

>>4322629
You brought up unhappiness. Can your prove that empirically? I don't think you can...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

>>4320988
lol no im not fuck you

>>4322645

>>4321147
I do.
Would never act on them, though.

>>4321771
This is a good post

>>4322891
Please don't make ironic posts on /lit/. Thank you!

>>4322900
it's legitimately good though

>>4321001
>How often do we see depictions of female arousal made by women? Never.

What fucking planet do you live on?

>>4322917
no

>>4322965
you must be womea

>>4322974
u must b low thinking

disagree :: label u member of ppl i dont like :: i win argument

I'm not the biggest Zizek fan but this seems at least partially correct

>>4321164
i got a boner while reading this

>>4321216
take it back to r9k

>>>>>>>>/r9k/>>>>>>

I seriously don't get why there's such a brouhaha over this concept. Some women have a fantasy about "being raped," just like some men have a fantasy about "being whipped."

This doesn't make actually raping a woman okay, nor does it say anything about how a woman responds to being actually raped. Just as it's not okay to run up to a guy who has BDSM fantasies and actually whip him in the middle of the street, nor does his fantasy imply anything useful about how he'd react to such a thing.

Some women with rape fantasies want a romantic partner who is strong and who will make decisions for them, etc. Others want to live independently and pursue a career or whatever, to be equals in their romantic relationships, and so on. The rape fantasy says nothing about the rest of the woman's psyche w/r/t to these issues.

Obsessing over this kind of thing is the surest sign of insecurity, for everyone involved.

>>4321223
>>4321164
>working for a living and being independent is hard. I would trade it in if I could be dependant on someone in exchange for willingly submitting a portion of my freedom to them. You know, like when I lived with my parents.

Wow, shocker.
It's like I'm really reading 50 Shades of Grey.

All Continentals that are not Heidegger are terrible hacks who say things they desperately need to be meaningful but actually aren't. Case closed.

>>4323033
>>4323033
>>4323033
Winner winner chicken dinner

>>4321868
>>I'm a girl and I've always struggled with the idea that deep down all I really need is a confident, ambitious guy to look after who will give me attention and rape/use me whenever he wants.
>Funny, I struggle with the same conflict of desire and I'm a guy
is this supposed to be satire?

>>4323033
>Some women have a fantasy about "being raped," just like some men have a fantasy about "being whipped."

False equivalence.

You're implying that equal numbers of men and women are inherently masochistic. That's simply not the case.

From an article in Psychology Today:

"From 1973 through 2008, nine surveys of women's rape fantasies have been published. They show that about four in 10 women admit having them (31 to 57 percent) with a median frequency of about once a month. Actual prevalence of rape fantasies is probably higher because women may not feel comfortable admitting them.

"....Sixty-two percent said they'd had at least one such fantasy.... When asked about being "overpowered by a man," 52 percent said they'd had that fantasy...."

(http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201001/womens-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean))

On the contrary, almost all evidence points to the relative rarity of male masochism.

Arndt, Foehl and Good (1985) found that 33% of women and 50% of men had sexual fantasies of tying up their partner.

Hunt (1974) found that 5% of men and 2% of women reported they obtained sexual gratification from inflicting pain.

http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/paraphilia/sadism.htm

>Obsessing over this kind of thing is the surest sign of insecurity

The irony is that women "obsess" over rape FAR MORE than men. Most romance lit is replete with rape scenes, BDSM, female submission, etc. A contingent of the feminist community has now worked itself into such a frenzy over rape that they've accused Western men of perpetuating an entire social system that promotes "Rape Culture" -- in which men are supposedly applauded by their peers (??) for forcing themselves on any unsuspecting female victim who dares to "express her sexuality."

Here's what I think is really happening: A generation of women have benefited materially and socially through feminism, and are now in positions of independence -- yet they still find themselves unable to shake fantasies in which they submit to the same sex they've been told (or forced) to compete against.

The result? The steady rise of BDSM fiction like 50 Shades of Grey, plus anger directed toward those who constitute the focus of their desire.

>>4323313

The studies re male masochism are admittedly weak, but only because I couldn't find much research done on the topic.

That said, the most generous estimates show that around 10% of men engage in BDSM. Even if we said that ALL these men were masochists, the percentage of women who fantasize about being dominated still greatly outweighs the men who fantasize about the same.

>>4321190

I know you're trollin' but it still made me cringe.

>>4321223

>There's something deep within me that rejects their narrative
>deep within me

Fucking pleb.

>>4321223
Wow, I hope this post is real.
I've been looking for a date on OkCupid for the past few weeks, and what I saw was pushing me close to renouncing love entirely.
It's nice that there are people in the world who want exactly what I want. I hope I find one someday.

>>4323313
>women "obsess" over rape FAR MORE than men.

Rape happens to women FAR MORE than it does to men, and the perpetrator is always male. It's like weird.........

>>4323313
>in which men are supposedly applauded by their peers (??) for forcing themselves on any unsuspecting female victim who dares to "express her sexuality."
That's not even close to what people mean when they say "rape culture." What literature have you read about it?

You're also equating masochism with a rape fantasy (and more, equating actual masochism with fantasies of rape), or the anon you're responding to did and you continued it. In these that very hard to extrapolate what women mean when they say they have rape fantasies, much less what that information actually means.

>>4321223
Tell me, are there any women out there that would be totally fine with working and letting me be a househusband? I'll raise kids too, anything to get me out of working.

>>4322999
Zizek is by no means the smartest or most profound critical philosopher. The reason he's great is that he doesn't mind being seen as creepy or sexist and will talk about the most perverse shit with no filters, and it's always at the very least, insightful.

>>4323313
>You're implying that equal numbers of men and women are inherently masochistic. That's simply not the case.
I think he's more just implying fantasy =/= reality.
But for a more equivalent analogy, how about this: I'd wager a majority of people fantasise about being famous, but that doesn't mean they'd be happy if their personal lives were suddenly published in national news.

>Here's what I think is really happening: A generation of women have benefited materially and socially through feminism, and are now in positions of independence -- yet they still find themselves unable to shake fantasies in which they submit to the same sex they've been told (or forced) to compete against.
I'd essentially agree with this.
It's just a confusion about one's place in society. A man's role hasn't changed much, but women are in limbo. Some say to be completely independent, some say to be completely subservient. Some say to cover up, some say to own your sexuality.
And the dependant and independent roles both have their own freedoms and drawbacks, making them both somewhat appealing. For someone independent, indulging in a fantasy of rape grants an illusion of freedom from responsibility. And for someone dependant or subservient, a fantasy of power grants an illusion of freedom to choose.
But ultimately, it's just that; an illusion. It's always completely under the fantasiser's control. And someone having a fantasy is not at all equivalent to another human being, unpredictable and uncontrollable, taking it upon themselves to bring that fantasy to life.

It's little different from the mentality behind the excuses people make for themselves in every day life; 'I can't lose weight, it's genetics, not my fault,' 'I can't help but submit to this strong man, and if I happen to enjoy it, it's not my fault.'
It's just an indulgent escape from the mixed signals in our society.

>>4323450
>In these that very hard to extrapolate
*In surveys like these it's very hard to extrapolate

>>4321870
>implying LGBT people aren't "normal"

>implying women aren't "normal"

geez you sure are some kinda stupid huh

>>4323767
>LGBT people
>normal
lold

>>4323780
inorite? quaffhaw

>>4320975
Quoting Freud like he is somehow still relevant. pleb

>>4323817
>referring to relevance like it's somehow still relevant

plea9-y9rf-h238tyehfd9y2834-1yyuy11h3208yQ#0Q#&%

>>4323767
lbgt is not normal, by default

>>4323843

>mfw T has been forcibly latched onto LGB by L for no reason
>mfw T is going to drag LGB down to the briny depths of social ostracism and permanent Otherness with their constant freakshow bullshit
>mfw we almost got the normies to be cool with LGB

We almost had a good thing there, making straight people think homosexuality/bisexuality is an orientation rather than a perverse fetish that naturally makes someone a walking sex act. Good thing we welded a bunch of suicidal permanently roleplaying fetishfags on drugs to the movement.

>>4323455
househusbands are so hot they're like Robert Walser, they renounce to everything about power without noticing it

more bullshit arguments

>>4323899
Yeah, this is really weird to me. Of course, it makes more sense when you realize that all of these 'liberation' movements are built on intellectual foundations creation by straight, white, male Jews, for whom the world can apparently be divided into "oppressed" and "non-oppressed" people, with all the people in each group being fundamentally similar.

>>4323440
The most disturbing fact about rape: it's usually somebody close to the victim (male or female) and when you know that, you understand that "rape fantasy" has nothing to do with rape. It's really just a fantasy.

>>4323960
But then and there's that in Iran - like, Iran Iran - transgenders are entirely tolerated; they have the best treatment of transgenders there of any nation. Yet, within the same country, people are lashed, literally lashed, for being in the LGB, but then, no, T wants to just hook onto our group and ride us into legitimacy, which is justified by no other premise than our sharing the adjective 'queer'.

>>4321223
This sounds like a clever troll to play into the anti feminist faction of /lit/

If so, well done.

>>4324003
>no-one can hold a sincere, intelligently constructed opinion that differs from mine without being a troll
>why do I have no friends? ;(

>>4320993
¿Looc? Edud, :O. Looc?

>>4323173
What you're linking to is satire but what you're greentexting, which has nothing to do with what you're linking to, is not satire. Colour me confused, tbh

>>4323173
>is this supposed to be satire?

What lead you to that assumption?

>>4323440
>Rape happens to women FAR MORE than it does to men

Incorrect. Its just reported more by women.

Rape is often used in prison and warfare as a way to demoralize and emasculate men. Its even suspected that the number of men rape is triple that of women. Most rape statistic come from a flawed and biased study done in the 70s using leading questions meant to incite public outcry.

Stupid here.
Can someone explain to a layman what Zizek says about rape?

>>4324394
> Rape is often used in prison and warfare as a way to demoralize and emasculate men.
> Between 0.7% and 3.6% of American prisoners reported being sexually victimized

>>4324525
>reported being sexually victimized

>reported

>reported.

Hobbled your own response.

>>4323899
>making straight people think homosexuality/bisexuality is an orientation rather than a perverse fetish
so a man being gay is just a fetish for cock/maleness, right? i've been saying this for years but people always attack me saying "NO IT'S MORE THAN THAT, I CAN LOVE MY PARTNER!". but i can love a man too without wanting to have sex with him, but apparently that doesn't compute for society. fuck you gayfags for taking away man-love from us straight dudes.

>>4324531
What else would you base your reports of male rape then? Hearsay? Anecdotes? American TV series?

>>4324537

Clinical evidence. Rape damages tissue.

People that seek medical attention don't have to tell HOW they got hurt. In Fact in many african countries, to report male rape would result in the victims execution.

>>4324542
> Clinical evidence. Rape damages tissue.
But since you haven't actually brought up any reports that specify these, how are we supposed to trust you?

>>4321035
this is what /pol/ actually believes

>>4324394
You are stupid.
And i don't even like any kind of feminist.

>war
You are implying that in a war men are being raped while women aren't.
By common sense and experiential and historical and statistical we know women are being raped in war.
We don't know about men, most logical reasoning says that it probably occurs in men too (during wartime) but significantly lower than females.
Unless you have some kind of reliable data.

>prison
Sure lots of dudes get fucked.
Am sure women too get abused but they can't get raped in prisons as much
because the lack of actual fucking males.


Now the embarrassing fact:
War and Prison are extreme environments and today constitute a fraction of the population.
But isn't even about the number of the population but also the circumstances.
Not only it is pointless to argue extreme environments but even we argue on those you're still lagging in comprehension of your own argument and the general ITT.

The question being who gets raped more in a country under "normal" circumstances is women.
The question being who rapes more is again males.
Just because males have "pride" or whatever to not report doesn't mean shit.
Many women don't report as well in fear of shame and the attachment to it.

I still think feminists should die but you're not defending anyone here, just attacking reality instead of women/feminists/whatever you think is that you're attacking to.

Again, you are stupid.

>>4321223
> The problem is that its so deep in our culture now that if I say anything against feminism, I'm either snubbed or called out as a traitor to my sex.

oh my god it's like you're literally retarded

> It'd be so much better if I could just stay home, look after a husband, and raise children without feeling guilty or getting snide remarks from "career-focused" bitches

you poor oppressed suburban woman


You understand the majority of women STILL DO THIS?

>>4324550

This read like a woman wrote it.

There are actual studies and numbers to validate my claim.

>talking about feminism on 4chan
>expecting anything other than greasy neckbeards projecting their sexual frustration onto a social debate

ya blew it

>>4324553
>le white knight XDD
Fucking 15yos

Show me the studies.

>>4324553
>I don't hate women! I'm just telling the truth!
>This read like a woman wrote it. (because women are stupid, and so are you)

uhhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh

>>4324553
>it's all in the numbers
>didn't post numbers

yeah, nice numbers, faggort

>>4324558
>le white knight XDD

I get the feeling you don't know what that means.

>>4324561
The response I received to my initial post was largely conjecture and heavily rely on emotions.

It is not sexist to assume a first world white woman is making this 'rebuttal'

>>4324552

You seem angry, madam. Please stop posting until you're off your period.

>>4324564

You have the internet, and google. Not my job to look it up for you.

>>4324570
>>4324566

>It is not sexist to assume a first world white woman is making this 'rebuttal'

actually it totally is, but feel free to never leave the fantasy land you inhabit where you can just say how the world works and expect it to be true or accepted by anyone at all (this place being your mother's basement)

>>4324550
>Am sure women too get abused but they can't get raped in prisons as much
>because the lack of actual fucking males.
afaik a large degree of prison rape is done by guards, particularly to prisoners in solitary confinement (these cases don't get reported, since the only people they can report it to are the guards)
most people who talk about prison rape don't actually care about prisoners though

>>4324572
Pathetic, you rave about something with your only weapon some numbers and you cop out using the losing strategy of "geegli it"

>>4324566
>I get the feeling you don't know what that means.
You're too stupid to understand simple things, let alone read between the lines.
Go die you emotional sack of useless shit.

You came made an argument i made a lengthy post addressing your points and your reaction is one of a person who doesn't know what he fights for, only that he fights.

>>4324570
epic :)
maybe you should stop posting until you deal with your own emotional problems w/r/t women

>>4324585
>Go die you emotional sack of useless shit.

i love it when MRAs fight eachother

the same hypocrisy and lack of self awareness on both ends, like a colostomy bag being squeezed into another colostomy bag, back and forth forever

>>4324557

>implying feminism itself isn't an ideology originated on sexual frustation
le penis envy face.gif

>>4324585

Man, you're autism and rage are off the charts!

People will speak of your but made with awe and wonder!

>>4324598
This can't be true

>>4324603

Mother of god....

>>4324603
>more inclusive and less discriminatory findings
How can a fact be discriminatory???? omfg

>>4324597
>goes further and further away from the argument using buzzwords and whatnot
Let me ask you one last time.
Can you back up anything you said?

Don't use the "google it" argument.
The burden of proof is not on me, you were the one that stated a claim, i made a counter claim base on common reason and you implied that common reason is wrong because of studies.
I await the studies but i see none.


Again, everyone can come here and make a grand claim and say "google it".
Dropping words like "some studies" mean nothing.
Obviously it's your poor intuition and not based on objective reality.

>>4324610

>Trying to muscle in on people over the internet

>Being this mad.

I gave up having a reasonable exchange with you when you told me to go die.

Please keep spooning yourself massive scoops of shit pie.

>>4324594
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1C5xJ6jnoE

>>4324617
I told you to go die BECAUSE you were refusing to give any sense.
Just read your previous post.
And now you're using such petty excuses to avoid the argument.
Why do you even bother getting in these kind of arguments?
How old are you?

>>4324598
>>4324603
>>4324606
>>4324607
samefag
are you angry no one is validating your misogyny

>>4324626
>she doesn't know how to check for samefag
>2013

>>4324626

Dumb ass can't read the register.

I'm the one that said.

>mother of god...

You fucking retard.

>>4324623

Older than you apparently.

I'm not the one getting raging butthurt on the internet.

Ah, jeez, look at the time. I have real things to do with real people.

Night son.

>>4324626

kil yirsell

>>4324627
>>4324631
there's like five people on this board at any given time, I don't really care what the register says
please do not come here again

>>4324579

Why are you upset about being identified as a woman?

I'm not sure how that's "sexist."

>>4324618
>someone points out a theory that has been defended by several academics during decades
>"oh, you must be le joking, this is le absurd!"
women in charge of logic

>>4324589

Oh, I'm fine with women. I just don't like shrieking feminists.

Nobody does.

>>4324659

>Gets caught in a lie

>Can't let it go and blames other anons for their mistake.

>Deflecting is a woman and autism trait.

Which are you. Granted both are about the same.

As a man, you feminists should know that you're never going to convince us in large numbers of anything. If you really believe in that stuff you should focus exclusively propagandizing women and get a gun.

>>4324626
You know emotions are running high when three people come at you for calling samefag.

>>4324664

"Are you a woman who's on the losing end of an argument with a man, and can't think of any possible way to rebut the facts he's accurately asserted? Don't worry! All you need to do is act cutesy, giggle, and change the topic to something absurd -- pretending like you weren't interested in seriously arguing in the first place! It works every time."

>>4324667

This.

>>4324592
You speak of awareness but yet, you lack one.
Let me guide you through logic.
1. A person kidnaps and keeps the victim locked
2. Police finds out, get the criminal and keep him locked in prison

WTF THE POLICE ARE SO HYPOCRITES THEY'RE DOING THE SAME THING
OMG SO LACK OF SELF AWARNESS.

1. Guy makes claim that men get raped more
2. I make a detailed post tackling his points, his reasoning is so beyond logic and reason, it makes me go a lil ad hominem but still maintain my eye on the subject matter and the reasoning behind it

3. He evades the point by any means, using couple of words as response and insults accompanied by no reason or studies or anything whatsoever

4. It is obvious that his argument is based on MUH MALE OPPRESSION because he talks about ANYTHING but the case in point.
5. Which makes it obvious that he is basing his opinion purely on emotional factors which generate his
wishful thinking
6. I get frustrated and call him an emotional sack of shit

OMG SO EMOTIONAL SUCH SELF DELUSION HYPOCRITE HE WAS EMOTIONAL THE WHOLE TIME TOO

No honey, it is called fucking disgust
>emotion
Go pick up a neuroscience book and try to define emotion, you'll find almost everything can be interpreted as emotion.
Even our motives goals and aspirations and every single action.
Sure, go and have emotional background to an argument, but if an argument contains nothing BUT emotional justification then the argument IS emotional.

I'am getting to old for this board.

>>4321164
Hey, I'm the person who wrote this. Wasn't expecting so many replies.

I'm a guy

>>4324689

Shame so many good women have been led into lives of abject misery and childlessness by a cadre of bitter lesbians.

>>4324695
I lack one awareness? what?

you are and likely always have been too much of a shitposting neckbeard not to post on this board

>>4324672
What lie am I caught up in? When there are three posts in two minutes responding to the same post in the same style I'm going to accuse it as samefagging. It's even more suspect when two of them mention checking for samefagging on a board full of dilettantes with no technical skills.
please do not come here again

People are getting exalted! Yes!

>>4324703
is this a real post? Are you a real person saying this? I know 4chan is filled with some really frustrated neckbeards but this is a little much.

>>4324708
I think it was sarcasm. I hope it was sarcasm.

>>4324708
Teenage girl detected.

You'll realize that "muh independence" isn't what women think it is

>>4324705
>please do not come here again

So butt mad you are.

And your failings of detecting samefaging are shameful at best.

Are you really this autistic?

>>4324708

I've got disappointing news for you, miss:

This opinion isn't exclusive to 4chan; it's not an unpopular sentiment.

>>4324702
And I'm the Queen of Mars. I'm posting from my orbiting Death Station right now.

>>4324714
>autistic
>man who samefags reactions to pictures of a feminist video game reviewer

>>>/fit/23840158

go there and be awful neckbeards, not here. They're even talking about the children's board game Warhammer that so often shits up the front page here.

I have to assume there's a strong correlation between antifeminists and sweaty neckbeards rolling dice

>>4324729
>ridiculous ad hominem emotional attacks
>hating someone for liking a board game

Feminists, ladies and gentlemen.

>>4324704
>I lack one awareness? what?
I take it, English isn't your native language.

>you are and likely always have been too much of a shitposting neckbeard not to post on this board
Do you really not understand the post?
The hypocrisy analogy?
The meaning of emotion in such hypocrisy?
The pseudo-double standards?

What exactly is it that you understand or don't understand?
I am willing to elaborate, but if you react so negatively on anything you can't understand then it will stunt your intellectual growth.

>>4324708

"OMG, Mom -- come quick! People aren't following the feminist narrative that I've been brought up to believe! It's like they have opinions that aren't approved by the New York Times! It's times like this I wish I had a biological dad to hold me...."

>>4324731
>>man who samefags reactions to pictures of a feminist video game reviewer

Wrong again.

I'm the guy who responded to the one where a tumbler feminist was saying science was keeping women down.

Anita Sarkissian has already been successfully marginalized by most of Youtube.

>>4324734
I was ridiculing them for wasting their youth on a childish fantasy game, I don't hate them for it.

My issue with them (and you) are the held beliefs "there are no good women in australia, europe or america" or "I hate sluts but not in the sense that I couldn't start a relationship with them" or that we're in a "fucking retarded hedonistic age"

Those are pretty pathetic things to think and say

>>4324740
ok

>>4324704
>>4324708
>>4324729

Is anyone counting how many times the word 'neckbeard' is used in this thread? HUEHUEHU

>>4324735
I take it, you don't, understand,, how commas work, ?

>>4324745
Hmmm, I'm pretty sure you just pulled all of the statements in quotation marks out of your ass, because I can't any of them in this thread.

I'm not sure if this is a case of projection or strawman, but either way, you're an idiot.

>>4324729

>go there and be awful neckbeards, not here.

Why do shrill feminists always tell people to leave /lit/ -- as if they have some proprietary claim on this board?

They've gone from a group who insists on acceptance and inclusion from men, to a group who actively seeks to exclude any man who doesn't give lipservice to their perverse ideology.

>>4324755

GO BACK TO >>>/POL/, SHITLORD

>>4324754
>reading comprehension

>>4324754
>what is a paraphrase
i wonder if all the accusations of autism ITT are projection too

>>4324736
>It's times like this I wish I had a biological dad to hold me...

>>4324761
truth hurts, doesn't it?

>>4324745
>I was ridiculing them for wasting their youth on a childish fantasy game, I don't hate them for it.

>ridiculing them

>ridiculing

I wonder if feminists know how much money it cost to play a table top game. I mean, its quite a big investment of time and money, to buy a 2" tall figure, clean it, paint it, and learn to play it.

Or is that their problem?
That the men are using money the feel better spent on women? That the man's time should be devoted to them?

Is this the REAL issue? That women and feminists are gold digging vampires?

So in the end they attack the hobby or entertainment of a group of men because its seen as counter productive to an agenda that caters to their fussy needs?

Man, this only makes me hate women more.

>>4324754
it was a reference to
>>4324729

>>4324775
>muh power fantasies

funny that you make yourself more pathetic in order to feel empowered

>>4324766
Here's the difference, and pay attention because I'm providing you with a lesson in English free of charge.

Double quotation marks, i.e., these funny symbols: " ", indicate a /direct quote/ from someone, as in, something that has /actually be written/ by someone else.

If you'd like to do a short paraphrase feel free to use single quotation marks, i.e., these almost-as-funny symbols: ' ', or, really, anything but double quotation marks.

>>4324782

Power fantasy?

Where? In the game?

Its a game about giant robots and victorian style troops fighting. I dont' play to win, I play because it looks cool. I apprciate the time, and art put into the images and setting of the game. I get just as excited about losing a game as I do about winning.

Also I didn't pick up on table top gaming until I was in my late 20s. Prior to that most of my activities were outdoors stuff, like hiking and mountain climbing.

What are you even playing at?

>telling people to go back to "x" board
>accusing people of being neckbeards
>straw man and ad hominem rampant
>posting pictures of crazy feminists and pretend all women think this way
>both sides being this autistic
This is some /b/ tier shit. Someone euthanize this thread already

>>4324775
>So in the end they attack the hobby or entertainment of a group of men because its seen as counter productive to an agenda that caters to their fussy needs?

Doubtful. My grandfather had a ton of hobbies -- as did many men of his generation -- and while my grandmother didn't understand them, she certainly didn't belittle them.

In fact, she regularly praised my grandfather's cleverness and ability when it came to the delicate hobbies he enjoyed, including model ship building. Even today, she'll go on at length about how skilled he was.

The difference, in my opinion, is that there was never this overwhelming sense of COMPETITION WITH MEN which is crammed down the throats of young women today.

In the past, women could openly admire a man's strengths and interests -- without feeling the neurotic pressure to "one up" them or (if the hobby was something they had no interest in doing) belittle them.

This gets at the root of feminism. It forces men and women to compete with one another -- rather than compliment one another. And it makes both sexes miserable in the process.

>>4324775
>being proud that you value expensive objects more than fellow human beings
embarrassing

>>4324813

All I got out of that was your grandmother was a good person.

though I do agree there is some bizarre feminist notion that women should try to 'out compete men'

>>4324736
This might be the single best post I've read on /lit/.

>>4324775
> That women and feminists are gold digging vampires

Ah you seem to have a very nuanced and deep understanding of feminism, I am defeated in this duel of words good sir, you have uncovered the truth! *tips fedora*

>>4324818

You what you need to play a table top game?

Other people.

I'm usually sitting around a table with between 3 and 6 friends. two of which are women.

We shit talk, we describe how a play would have looked in a movie, and we heckl who ever hasn't finished painting their figures.

Sounds pretty social and involved with 'fellow human beings' to me.

>>4324784
except they are direct quotes from the other thread

>>4324837
Which apply to the people in this thread how, retard?

>>4324833
>*tips fedora*

Nope.

Lost my virginity when I was 16.

That was about 15 years ago.

I sometimes wonder what /lit/ would be like if it wasn't the feminist harpy lair of 4chan.

>>4324852

it was glorious for a time.
Books were talked about. Ideas debated.

Twas a golden age!

>>4324833
it's funny how feminists never really have any arguments aside from shaming tactics, non sequiturs and ad hominems. they're like this annoying bitter female version of a neckbeard (or an emasculated clueless idiot thinking standing up for "female causes" will finally get him laid) spewing fire in all directions, the fire is so strong and the stench so bad that eventually most everyone gives up and accepts living in a world dominated by feminist agenda where these harpies have managed and continue to wreak havoc on normal well-arranged humans walking the scorched earth.

My god... Why did I read this entire thread?

>>4324857

Sounds like paradise.

Tell me: were people constantly told to "go back to /pol/"?

>>4324835
I play Warhammer too, I just don't see the money I spend on Warhammer as specifically taking away from money I spend on women and it's a little weird that you do. I don't think feminists equate care for people with care for objects.

>>4324852
you mean if some people here didn't hold radical views like "women shouldn't be encouraged to be homemakers by default
or "saying all western women are sluts is sexist and bizarre"?

well let me show you the wonderful paradise of >>>/pol/

>>4324866
women are objects though

>>4324866
>I just don't see the money I spend on Warhammer as specifically taking away from money I spend on women and it's a little weird that you do

I'm actually addressing a well document phenomena where women will see mates their engaged with as exclusively a means to act out agency.

Its a cave man era notion that a woman uses the man as an extension of her own resource. If she feels the mans use of those resources are not to her ends she will punish and admonish him.

>>4324872
>>4324865

Too perfect.

>>4324872
>"women shouldn't be encouraged to be homemakers by default

No one in this thread has said this.

But since you brought it up. Get back in the kitchen. That sandwich isn't going to make itself.

>>4324865
>>4324872

>>4324872
>men shouldn't be encouraged to get jobs by default

>>4324894
I know right.

We have to sign up for the draft, get a job, earn 'enough' to meet women's standards, be good looking in the process, be funny, be smart, but let the women's beat on us and never defend ourselves.

No pressure right?

Also, in your free time, keep track how often women tell men to 'be a man'

Even feminists do it.

the fall of the west can be traced directly back to the rights of women.

>>4324901
men tell men to be a men more than women do, have you ever been in the army? feminists beyond tumblr are much more likely to critique these issues than anyone in the mainstream will.

>>4324811
It's impossible to have an intelligent and honest discussion about feminism and gender roles, both on the internet and in real life.

>>4324902

According to Spengler, it happens during the decline of every major culture, and results in a drastic decline in population.

"The primary woman, the peasant woman, is mother. The whole vocation towards which she has yearned from childhood is included in that one word. But now emerges the Ibsen woman, the comrade, the heroine of a whole megalopolitan literature from Northern drama to Parisian novel. Instead of children, she has soul-conflicts; marriage is a craft-art for the achievement of 'mutual understanding.' It is all the same whether the case against children is the American lady’s who would not miss a season for anything, or the Parisienne’s who fears that her lover would leave her, or an Ibsen heroine’s who 'lives for herself'—they all belong to themselves and they are all unfruitful."

>>4324914
>men tell men to be a men more than women do

AHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

LIAR!

When the Moorish king Of Andelucia was deposed, his mother said to him "Stop weeping like a woman for what you could not hold as a man!"

Women in movies, on TV and in life are CONSTANTLY telling men to 'man up'

Usually in context to something that makes the woman more money in the end.

>>4324916
You're right, and this is why feminists have seized control of the mainstream in real life. Men will always endeavour to debate honestly, openly, and in good faith, while women are deceitful harpies by nature.

>>4324901

Not a feminist myself, but when they say the 'be a man' phenomenon you are talking about is a consequence of gender structures (or as they generally name it, patriarchy), i can't disagree.

>>4324813
Femanon here, this guy gets it somewhat, the most unfortunate part of feminism as we are referring to it is how women take credit away from themselves. Homemaking and child raising are the most respectable jobs anyone can have, and traditionally women have done a far better job, but these days through the role reversal women who do it now are people who have been screwed into doing it through unfair gender roles and stay at home/single dads are seen as brave for bearing the stigma behind it.

>>4324923

"G-G-GO BACK TO /POL/, S-S-SHITLORD!!"

>>4324932
That and the fact that saying one wrong thing will result in you being demonized as a sexist or whatever. It might even end the debate there, the woman shouting, "I WILL CONTINUE TO SPEAK TO A SEXIST!"

>>4324914
of course because the army's "be a man" is actually good for the man in question.

feminism is fucking crazy and i hope to god it dies out soon. it is against nature, and places shame on women for the very things their very role in the universe. crazy, crazy world.

>>4324938
I'm a man and I would rather stay at home and play with my kids, build stuff and cook. Than making some capitalist pig rich and only get a meager compensation as my fruits. My qt3.14 gf can do that. Maybe this is why I'm permavirgin.

>>4324938

>Homemaking and child raising are the most respectable jobs anyone can have

I'm the guy who wrote that post, and I totally agree with your response.

Raising children is the most important job in society. Period. My grandmother raised four kids, kept house, cooked, threw dinners to entertain my grandfather's business contacts, kept peace within the extended family, etc. etc.

She was -- and still is -- an amazing woman. The true matriarch of our family. Everybody loves and respects her.

>>4324928
have you been in the army is what I asked
it's too bad that your only knowledge of gender is through the media and not life experience

>>4324948
except it isn't when MRAs complain about men being disposable
you can't eat your cake and have it too; masculinity and femininity are boon and bane to men and women alike (which is why it's better to use a broader framework of gender rather than idiotic boys-versus-girls shitflinging)

>>4324971
>it's too bad that your only knowledge of gender is through the media and not life experience

Projecting much.

>>4324971
I'm not a MRA idiot

>>4324970
Me too bro, I'm all for switching of gender roles as long as it means I can stay at home.

>>4324703
majority of 'good' women will obey their instincts and pass their genetics on. it's the men that we have to worry about.

>>4324974
SH WAS CLEARLY BEING OPPRESSED. IF YOU REALLY RESPECTED HER YOU'D LET HER SPEND 10 HOURS A DAY AT A MUNDANE JOB SO SHE COULD EXERCISE HER INDEPENDENCE

>>4324970
>I'm a man

No you're not, and that's why you're a permavirgin.

>>4324977
did I call you one you fucking degenerate
that doesn't change the fact that men complain about "manning up" even in situations where it might benefit them, just as women have complaints about femininity even as it might benefit them

>>4324985

>majority of 'good' women will obey their instincts and pass their genetics on

I've got some bad news....

>>4325002

This post made sense to no one.

>>4323899

lol you put that pretty well. i've been realising the same thing for a while now. homosexuality isn't an orientation, it isn't a type of person, instead it is an act, and a desire, and one that is ultimately selfish and destructive. i do not accept homosexuality, as i do not accept pleasure for pleasure's sake. that is not to say i hate those who practise homosexuality, i just think they have given their acts a comforting context that is ultimately far from the truth.

same goes for trannies, except they are 100x crazier.

our culture is a culture that promotes sick thoughts.

>>4325002
>feminists beyond tumblr are much more likely to critique these issues than anyone in the mainstream will.

>that doesn't change the fact that men complain about "manning up" even in situations where it might benefit them

>situations where it might benefit them

>might benefit them

>benefit

>issues

>>4325003
I blame society. people were never meant to put off breeding until their thirties and they built up a stable career. There's a reason you go through puberty at age thirteen.

>>4325003
How is that a problem. I love them Hispanic south American girls as well as Middle Eastern women.

>>4325018
Well of course. You know the leading cause of many problems with child development and handicaps has to do with most women having children late in life. After you hit 30 there are dozens of new risk factors for your child.

>>4324552

lol all you did was prove her right.

>>4325014
I don't understand what you're trying to highlight. MRAs complain about things like "disposability," but they also complain that women aren't letting men be men. I'm not very familiar with Men's Rights literature, but it seems like they try to embrace these contradictions by returning to tradition rather than critique the structure of gender as a whole as third-wave feminists do.

>>4323899
T is older than L, G, and B though.

Gay culture grew out of corssdressing, Stonewall was a tranny bar.

>>4325040
>T is older than L, G, and B though

Yeah, that's why in Symposium, Socrates and his buddies dress up in women's clothing instead of fucking each other.

Oh, wait.

>>4325036
I already told you i don't give a shit about MRAs. I'm poking fun at your idea that feminsits are more likely to stand up for men in those issue, but really they only stand up to the extent that it benefits them. "be a man" used from a male to male is vastly different than "be a man" from a female to a male. the former is likely going to be beneficial for a man in some capacity, the latter stems from a woman's desire for resources.

>feminists beyond tumblr are much more likely to critique these issues than anyone in the mainstream will.

That's why this is hilarious.

>>4325044
>he hasn't read Ecclesiazusae

>>4325040
everything you said is factually wrong. stonewall was a gaybar. trannies often hang out at gaybars for obvious reasons.

>>4325044
I meant in western (frankish) culture. Transgenderism was common in ancient asia too.

>>4325051
*Thesmophoriazusae
Cleisthenes is more trans than gay, despite the way modern versions portray him

>>4325029
>>4325029
>After you hit 30 there are dozens of new risk factors for your child.
why does society encourage men to pursue women of that age? why are they being used to sell anti-aging cream through the idiot box? why does society give value to people that are on their decline? I know most pre-pubescent girl children aren't mentally prepared for intimate relations but some are. Feminism creates more problems and privilege for what it's worth. It promotes equality when the honest truth is people aren't equal. Some are simply better then others. Survival of the fittest has always been the law of nature, promoting equality will only upset the equilibrium. who are you to meddle with fate? Too many people act without thinking. If you open up doors in the workplace for these consumerist fools then you're essentially encouraging them to breed.

>>4325007
>homosexuality isn't an orientation, it isn't a type of person, instead it is an act, and a desire, and one that is ultimately selfish and destructive.
pic related
if one thing is certain, T is an act and probably the most selfish and destructive.

>>4325064
>why does society encourage men to pursue women of that age? why are they being used to sell anti-aging cream through the idiot box? why does society give value to people that are on their decline?

The fuck?Anti-aging cream is a thing because old people are seen as useless and gross, so unless they're ready to kill themselves, the only thing they can do to pretend they still have a reason to live is to try and recapture their youth and masquerade as a useful young person.

>>4325064
do you live in some sort of bizarre world where feminists promote what I generally hear them refer to as "fascist beauty standards"
technology creates more problems than it's worth but that's why you're here

>>4324708

lol don't sound too shocked, lesbians and feminism have been complementary pop images for a looooong time. i can't imagine a person never having heard it before. i also ca't beluieve a person not being able to see the logic in the association.

>>4325071
>Living for appearance
That low life logic. If all you live for is physical appearance and desires you are T1 pleb. You might as well kill yourself anyways at that point.

>>4325064
T? I'm confused. What is T? Also yeah homosexuality is a choice. People go for the whole love isn't a choice nonsense. Those people literally don't understand human emotion or themselves. It is a choice, a desire. It is my choice not to fuck men. Sure I may find some men attractive, but why on Earth would I put myself so over the edge as to move to the wrong direction and deny my human completion by having a biological child of my own with a woman. Why stick my cock into a waste hole for pleasure. How messed up in the head do you have to be to enjoy that and legitimately think it is some kind of love.

Skeeves me out honestly. People will do anything to feel included, get off, or belong.

>>4325132
>>4325132
>but why on Earth would I put myself so over the edge as to move to the wrong direction and deny my human completion by having a biological child of my own with a woman.
bad genetics? It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

>>4325144
So what if you have bad genetics. You can easily find someone just as ugly as you are and compensate. When people try to live above their means it is when they become depressed and addicted to the monstrosity of aesthetic society.

Look how many great people had love on the low key side of their lives. Think of the joy they expereined without women or men or love.

The idea that love, sex, or a partner makes us happy is a manufactured idea. Not to be SJW, but it is a social construct heavily promoted by our cultures all around the world.

He hits the nail on the head again. Based fucking Jizzkek

>>4325132
1/10
apply yourself

>>4325132
you know it is possible for a man's asshole to be cleaner then a female's vagina. It's all relative. It's also possible for a guy to be more desirable then a women

>>4325168
tips tricks?

>>4323313
>You're implying that equal numbers of men and women are inherently masochistic.

I didn't say that. The rest of your post in pointless in that light. You completely misunderstood the main argument of my post.

>>4325088
> also ca't beluieve a person not being able to see the logic in the association.

I just want to point out, actual dykes really don't tend to give a shit what men do, because they aren't preoccupied with confusing, passionate thoughts of love and hate aimed in their direction. Associating feminism with actual female homosexuality makes about as much sense as associating chauvinism with male homosexuality.

These kind of passionate squabbles really only happen when sexual frustration is involved, whether it's in the form of "fuck you, why wont you fuck me," "fuck you, you're not allowed to fuck me," or "fuck you, _I_ want to fuck that."

The real enemy is political lesbians. Big fat fakers, the most sexually frustrated, warped and insecure of them all. Basically the equivalent of those closet homo dudes who always have to remind you how straight they are, but they don't actually know what being straight feels like and forget that one of the things about actually being straight is not having to consciously work at being straight, so it comes off as really desperate and weird and they get it all wrong.
Like that duck in Babe that tries to be useful by pretending to be a rooster, but just ends up being a massive pain in the ass because it doesn't know what the fuck it's doing.

>>4325171
>>4325168
Apply myself? Yeah let me google a letter. Why don't you find waldo in regular clothes, in New York City

>>4325181
Tru.

>>4325018
>people were never meant to put off breeding until their thirties and they built up a stable career.

People were never meant to whiz around in two-ton metal boxes on wheels and do calculations on electric boxes filled with semiconducting silicon wafers.

Times change. I think you'll agree modern society is better than some kind of Hobbesian state of nature where we have to hunt buffalo on the plains and women are continuously pregnant from the ages of 12 to whenever childbirth kills them. The fact is that low birth rates are beneficial to postindustrial society. As long as we meet replacement (2 births per couple, and we are meeting that, outside certain nations like Japan) then we're fine. The last thing we need is five billion more mouths to feed.

>>4325200
>on the plains and women are continuously pregnant from the ages of 12 to whenever childbirth kills them

Are you uneducated?

>>4325200
>The fact is that low birth rates are beneficial to postindustrial society

Then why the fuck do all our politicians scream about the need for mass immigration to, ostensibly, keep our populations growing?

Or was this a slip and are you tacitly admitting that the mass immigration agenda is about breeding out white people and not the economy at all?

>>4325212
Wh- I, what, what I meant was, uh.. wh-..

SLIDE IT

>>4325218
>>>>/pol

>>4325212
>Then why the fuck do all our politicians scream about the need for mass immigration to, ostensibly, keep our populations growing?

Not him, but I honestly don't get this.
All I know is when I was a kid, everyone said there were 6 billion people, and now everyone says there are 7 billion people.
And that sounds like a lot more people in not a very long time.

Granted, if you didn't guess by now, I'm an uneducated retard, but darn it, it just doesn't add up.

>>4325212

What are you even talking about?

I think you need to take your risperdal.

Read the whole post in his voice, hilarious.

>>4323313

Same way a lot of the most outspoken people against gays are closeted. It might be because they feel those desires often, it makes their moral sentiments more salient. Which leads one to the conclusion that Dworkin was one of the horniest feminists.

>>4321427

Maybe.

Research showed that when men are given examples of male rape, they're much more likely to swallow the rape culture line. And that's why it's being pushed so hard by feminist interest groups and showing up everywhere. That the state hasn't really cared about male rape, by definition of laws.

This however has caused mainstream feminists to swallow a line that anti-feminists like Phyllis Schafly have been pushing for decades: that men's needs aren't really being met by the state the way women's are and this is the result of feminism's biases. It's an in for men's rights to be co-opted or at least acceptable to be uttered on the left; where as social issues they always made more sense in.

Including issues like men's sexual desires being demonized, showing the hyperbole of rape culture starkly.

>>4325226
You said "the fact is that low birth rates are beneficial to postindustrial society."

I'm asking you why, if this is the case, every mainstream Western politician religiously pushes mass immigration in order to, so they say, keep our populations growing, which, so they say, is /necessary/ for the health of our economies.

>>4325233
>every mainstream Western politician religiously pushes mass immigration

I don't think this is the case. In any event, this isn't the current discussion.

You honestly sound like a paranoid schizophrenic right now.

>>4325233
>every mainstream Western politician religiously pushes mass immigration in order to, so they say, keep our populations growing

Wut?

>>4325200
not complaining about society, just saying we should be careful who we consider worthy of breeding. Eugenics isn't necessarily a bad thing, we just have to have a covert way of implementing something that controversial

>>4325205
If by uneducated, you mean formulated his ideas on how girl children were treated historically based lit recommended material, then yes, he is uneducated.

>>4325212
>Then why the fuck do all our politicians scream about the need for mass immigration to, ostensibly, keep our populations growing?
I agree, the politicians want us to keep breeding. More people they can control and exploit, realistically anon was probably right though

>Or was this a slip and are you tacitly admitting that the mass immigration agenda is about breeding out white people and not the economy at all?
oh boy, here we go

>>4325233
We can’t print more money, the money has to go around in a circle and be taken be someone else. Do you really the people in charge like the fact that we congregate to talk about these things?

>>4325240
You sound like someone with has been seriously conditioned to avoid questioning his ideology.

Look, you yourself admitted that low birth rates are beneficial for "postindustrial society."

I am asking you, then, why almost every Western nation is currently engaged in promoting mass immigration from the third world in order to keep Western populations growing larger, in order to keep Western economies healthy (this is the ostensible rationale for mass immigration, as I'm sure you're aware).

Just answer my question. You're so close to pulling the wool out from over your eyes...

>>4325257
>I am asking you, then, why almost every Western nation is currently engaged in promoting mass immigration from the third world in order to keep Western populations growing larger, in order to keep Western economies healthy (this is the ostensible rationale for mass immigration, as I'm sure you're aware).

None of this is true. More importantly, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

>>4325256
Whatever. People were not having children until they died. Learn about human history and patterns of behavior. If you wanted to have children every year all the time you are going to die. Hunter gathers and even minor farmers did not work that way.

>>4325257
>Post industrial society
top lel. That is a western thing the rest of the world is still industrial.

>>4325277

It was a hyperbole to illustrate the point. Most people also didn't hunt buffalo.

That being said, complications from childbirth have historically been the leading cause of death for women in pre-agrarian society. Even in most agrarian societies.

>>4325276
Are you serious? You don't believe that most Western countries are currently engages in promoting mass immigration?

What do you call 300 000 immigrants a /year/ in Canada and Sweden? What do you call /hundreds of thousands/ a year in Britain? What do you call /five million/ arabs in France? Somehow... not mass immigration?

And the reason given to justify this displacement of the native population is the necessity of keeping Western economies growing in order to keep Western economies healthy. This is what I was taught in high school in Canada, this is the rationale given by every mainstream Western politician to justify and defend mass immigration.

I think you may just be uneducated...

>>4325300
*Western populations growing

>>4325300
>Don't want to come up with real long term solution
>we better just keep this influx of tax payers until the bubble burst.
>Oh well the citizen all eventually suffer
>lets just delay it so much that when it bursts it is like nothing ever before.

Western Economics ladies and gentlemen. Hide the big monster in the closet until he kicks the door down.

>>4325300
A lot of people agree with you. I agree with you. I could post ten posts worth of statistics from mainstream sources that show mass immigration is being practised and all that, that it has negative consequences, blah blah.

But this isn't /pol/, and it's not even the subject of the thread. Not only are you going to get banned, you're going to contribute to the bad reputation /pol/ has for railroading every topic into "HERE IS WHY BLACKS ARE BAD".

>>4325300
>What do you call 300 000 immigrants a /year/ in Canada and Sweden? What do you call /hundreds of thousands/ a year in Britain? What do you call /five million/ arabs in France?

I call it irrelevant to the discussion of whether we should aim to have birth rates on par with Africa.

>>4325300

>>4325318
When 60% of the population of every historic Western capital is an Asian or African immigrant whose ethnic demographic is disproportionately responsible for crime per capita, something is a little weird.

>>4325314
It absolutely is relevant. Mass immigration is boosting "Western" birth rates significantly above replacement, and what's more replacing the low-fertility native population with extremely high-fertility populations from Africa and the Middle East, who are going to continue to grow and boost the birth rate. This is something that needs to be addressed if we want to keep the birth rate down.

>>4325326
>When 60% of the population of every historic Western capital is an Asian or African immigrant

That isn't even remotely true. Forget drinking the koolaid, have you been huffing bugspray?

>>4325330
It's nearing true. Have you been to major Canadian or English cities? Scandinavian or German?

The population of my city, known as a premiere hub of multiculturalism, is 60% non-Anglo-Saxon, 40-50% non-white/non-European, and getting worse. It's also notoriously ghettoized. I'm not saying it's all bad - most of my friends are non-white, and good examples of the "citizenry is not an ethnic classification" argument - but to deny it is strange. White flight is a real phenomenon.

I'm not racist, but again, to deny it is strange. There's nothing wrong with wanting to live amongst mostly Poles if you're from Krakow or whatever. You're Polish.

>>4325330
> isn't even remotely true

He's exaggerating but it's far from a major one.

London: 55% non-white

Paris: 40% non-white, 23% first-generation non-white

Brussels: 26% non-white

Berlin: 25% non-white

Madrid: 15% non-white

Toronto: 49% non-white

This is all in the space of, what, 50-60 years? And it's only the last few decades that things have really taken off. White people are being bred out of existence in their own countries, and will be a minority almost everywhere with 50 years.

>>4325338
>my city, known as a premiere hub of multiculturalism

Well, there's your problem. You're generalizing a local issue to a continental one. Even London, another hub of multiculturalism, is still 50% anglo and 60% "white." And most European cities remain quite homogeneous.

>>4325345
Keep in mind when talking about this that these kinds of demographic changes historically are fucking unprecedented. The Ostsiedlung wasn't so goddamn pervasive and it has impacted a thousand years of history. Human populations are subtle and a birthrate drop or ethnic composition of a few % historically has been incredibly significant.

>>4325350
>Keep in mind when talking about this that these kinds of demographic changes historically are fucking unprecedented

Just a couple centuries ago the Americas were 100% Native American and now they're like .1%

>>4325354

no but that's fine because white people were replacing brown people

>>4325354
This. The boogey man white supremacists are afraid of is the white man, it's hilarious.

>>4325346
London is only 44% anglo, and that 60% "white" includes such groups as latin americans and gypsies.

>>4325354
>>4325357
90% of the native population was killed by diseases transmitted unknowingly by the very first European explorers. Is that their fault? They were just looking for a new way to reach India!

Leaving that aside, your example illustrates exactly why we should be wary of mass immigration, and not make the same mistakes as the Native Americans. Unless you believe in some sort of racial sin which must punished, in which case you probably see white people being bred out of existence as just "what they deserve" or something.

i think it's pretty clear that zizek is not a psychologist. fantasies aren't exclusive to rape and often, more generally speaking, what's really getting the person excited is the taboones of the act --the extreme feeling of power that comes in being able to manipulate someone else's will or to give up all of one's own. most fetishes tie in to this in some way. like you can split cp users into two main types, those who are genuinely attracted to children, and those that are just into it because it's fucked up (you can tell which is which because the latter's porn collection will have a bunch of other fucked up things). in this sense, i don't think rape fantasies are some sort of special exception.

so yeah it's absurd to say that when a person get's raped the distress is caused by a flight of some hidden desire. what zizek doesn't seem to realise is that not everyone has a rape fetish. i'm sure most prisoners who get raped don't have fantasies of being raped, but they probably don't enjoy the experience any more than anyone else would.has nothing to do with a fear of some hidden desire. and the reason actual rape isn't hot like the fantasy is that, besides the actual physical trauma and danger, the victim has zero control in that situation (unlike in your rape fantasy, where you are at some level voluntarily giving up your control).

>>4325350

The world is a different place post WWII and especially post cold war. Things move more quickly and nations are more interconnected. You can't apply paradigms from the past to today's. Nothing of the population and cultural dynamics we see today has precedent.

That doesn't say anything to whether it's "bad" or "good" -- and obviously the large levels of immigration will effect a host of economic, political, and cultural changes -- but we can't look to the fucking Norman conquest (for instance) to tell us what those will be.

>>4325354
let's not repeat the same mistake twice

>>4325363
>Is that their fault?

Imagine how bad you'd be chimping out if SARS or something started killing white Londoners en masse.

"Fault" has nothing to do with it.

>>4325371
Are you serious? I would not be "chimping out" if SARS or some other disease from Asia started killing white people (and I live in Canada, where it actually did kill a whole bunch of white people). That's ridiculous.

The fact that you believe this to be an appropriate, normal, or even reasonably expected response says a lot about the gap between white people and the rest of humanity.

>>4325363
um, i think you missed the centuries of genocide done against native americans

and the total lack of genocide being done against white people

>>4325378
Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

>(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Making major white population centres non-white is not an example of this how?

>(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Forcing white children to attend inner-city schools, or bussing black children in and forcing them to attend white schools is not an example of this how?

>>4325377

/pol/ types absolutely would flip a shit over it. Hell, they already whinge about how AIDS is a nigger disease contributing to white genocide.

>The fact that you believe this to be an appropriate, normal, or even reasonably expected response says a lot about the gap between white people and the rest of humanity.

I thought you weren't a racist?

In any case, I'm as white as they come. English, Irish, and German ancestry.

>>4325378
>and the total lack of genocide being done against white people

It's usually white people exterminating white people.

>>4325369
What if people want to opt out of being "interconnected"?

It's not about comparing invasive conquests to modern immigration policy - the Normans didn't settle in large numbers anyway. It's about looking at how minorities tend to ghettoize and stay that way for a thousand fucking years, and how even 10% of a population being "alien" is often dangerous.

Prior to WW2, British Columbians' greatest fear was the oversettlement of Japanese and Asian immigrants, who were like 2% of the population. For a hundred years this fear dominated their culture. WW2 ends, and now Vancouver is 50% Asian, and you're a racist psychopath if you mention it. We're just living in a fucking odd time.

>>4325386
Indeed, I am a racist. I don't believe I ever said otherwise. I think you'd have to be an idiot with blinders on to not be a racist in the multicultural utopias our elite have built for us.

>>4325385
>Forcing white children to attend inner-city schools, or bussing black children in and forcing them to attend white schools is not an example of this how?

Because the parents retain custody. I don't think you've understood the terminology being used.

>>4325390
>What if people want to opt out of being "interconnected"?

You don't want to, apparently. You're posting on the worldwide web, dude.

>>4325385
>>(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
um, when they force white kids to have brown parents we'll talk
you're a fucking dumbass
>>(c)
um, when white people develop life-threatening allergies to people of color which make survival around them impossible, we can talk about physical destruction

you should learn what words mean before you say them

>>4325389
well, that happens, but i was talking about his worries about the cities of europe, and the idea that whites would go the way of the native americans

>>4325390
>What if people want to opt out of being "interconnected"?

Throw out your phone, radio, tv, PC, Internet.

I hope some elite someday euthanize people like you, you are traitors to the future and the reason we can't have nice things.

>>4325396
>>4325411
Interconnected in the sense of demographics.

I don't mind talking to some guy in Japan. The reason why it's notable to talk to some guy in Japan is because he has a different culture, language, appearance, and all the million subtle differences and ancestral traditions those things imply. I just don't want my people to go turn Tokyo into a carbon copy of Chicago, or to even inject 10% Chicago-y-ness into Tokyo.

>>4325398
https://www.un.org/en/preventgenocide/adviser/pdf/osapg_analysis_framework.pdf

>Genocidal acts

>Programs intended to prevent procreation, including involuntary sterilization,
forced abortion, prohibition of marriage and long-term separation of men and
women;

Programs intended to prevent procreation would include: the state-sponsorship and encouragement of interracial marriage and homosexuality and the state-sponsored and encouraged pressure on white women to join the workforce and put off having children, or never have children at all.

>Forcible transfer of children, imposed by direct force or through fear of violence,
duress, detention, psychological oppression or other methods of coercion;

And forcible transfer of children for only part of the day IS STILL FORCIBLE TRANSFER OF CHILDREN.

>>4325369
>tfw both world wars has shattered all colective horizons

>>4325419
>iluminerti wants to make us all gays

>>4325357

I know, right? If only Native Americans had been able to keep North America. Then we'd all be enjoying the regular horrors of inter-tribal raids, scalpings, kidnappings, and other culturally rich practices that were snuffed out by the white man.

>>4325417

Talking to people in Japan necessarily leads to cross-diffusion of culture. People find the other culture interesting enough to emulate parts of it. Some enough even to emmigrate. You're being willfully obtuse if you refuse to understand this.

The cost of connectedness is multiculturalism, Necessarily.

>>4325419
are you real?

you see how much of a stretch this is right?

>>4325419

cry more

>>4325428
You can't see the hypocrisy? we genocided them and enriched their culture by marginalizing them into futureless ghosts drunk with fire-water.

>>4325419
>And forcible transfer of children for only part of the day IS STILL FORCIBLE TRANSFER OF CHILDREN.

How is it difference from forcing people to send their children to any other public school?

And homeschooling is still legal anyway.

You're beginning to come off as hysterical.

Are we being raided by /pol/ or these are a crossbreed of /pol/ and /lit/?

>>4325443

/pol/ is genociding us you guise

99% of posters here used to be /lit/ natives now it's only 42%

we need to institute a program of eugenics and restrict cross-board immigration

>>4325434
His post is what /pol/ actually thinks. It's what unregulated circle jerks does to people. The extreme outcome of confirmation bias running wild in a community, that's why I love to lurk /pol/.

>>4325419
>And forcible transfer of children for only part of the day IS STILL FORCIBLE TRANSFER OF CHILDREN.

You're categorically incorrect. "Transfer" is specifically defined as transfer of custody. Your definitions are all wrong. The charter has nothing to say about public education.

>>4325454
IGNORE /pol/tards.

>>4325419
Continuing:

>7. Evidence of intent “to destroy in whole or in part …”

>Statements amounting to hate speech by those involved in a genocidal campaign;

Tim Wise, Harvard academic:

>[To White people] Do you hear it? The sound of your empire dying? Your nation, as you knew it, ending, permanently? Because I do, and the sound of its demise is beautiful. (http://www.timwise.org/2010/11/an-open-letter-to-the-white-right-on-the-occasion-of-your-recent-successful-temper-tantrum/))

>In a non-conflict situation, widespread and/or systematic discriminatory and targeted practices culminating in gross violations of human rights of protected groups, such as extrajudicial killings, torture and displacement;

Affirmative action in every Western country gives preferential status to minorities over the native White population. White farmers in South Africa and the former Rhodesia have literally been hunted down and slaughtered by the thousands by members of the black majority.

>The specific means used to achieve “ethnic cleansing” which may underscore that the perpetration of the acts is designed to reach the foundations of the group or what is considered as such by the perpetrator group

See all of the above. White people are guilty! White people should racemix!

>The nature of the atrocities, e.g., dismemberment of those already killed that
reveal a level of dehumanization of the group or euphoria at having total control
over another human being, or the systematic rape of women which may be
intended to transmit a new ethnic identity to the child or to cause humiliation and
terror in order to fragment the group

See Tim Wise. See every white-guilt pushing leftist Academic who says white people should feel guilty for being white.

>Targeted elimination of community leaders and/or men and/or women of a particular age group

Affirmative action boots out young whites in favour of minorities.

>Other practices designed to complete the exclusion of targeted group from social/political life

The "white privilege" narrative designed to paint whites as the perpetrators of most social ills, as the historic "oppressors" who must be overcome.

>>4325439

Are you implying that a world in which whites are a marginalized underclass is preferable to the world in which we live now?

>>4325429
Can you demonstrate that?

My father is Hungarian. His father and uncle lived in Hungary under the Austro-Hungarian Empire, as merchants with massive trade and cultural contacts with not only Austria but Germany. They lived in communities with large German enclaves. None of his family, for three generations, took German or Austrian wives, despite living in close proximity to them, none of them went local, and none of them would ever consider themselves German.

And I already mentioned the Ostsiedlung - "scratch a Pole and you find a German" - where the Germans where ghettoized for one thousand years, and though their more sophisticated urban culture did diffuse to the Poles, the Poles made it their own and then finally kicked the Germans out.

Connectedness and close contact breeds cultural emulation, sure. That's why we talk about Europe, and why the Poles modeled their Slavic aristocratic country on the Roman Empire and drafted legal constitutions in the Roman & European tradition. But Poles are still Poles. You're setting up a binary distinction between isolation and contact where there is actually a gradient.

>>4325458

I'm glad white people are dying out

the world will be a less whiny place

>>4325449
The funny thing is that you make a good point. /lit/ is leftist and makes fun of /pol/ for condemning mass immigration to white countries and the changes that this causes in the fabric of those countries, but then turns around and whinges about immigration from and influence of /pol/.

Practice what you preach you crybaby hypocrites.

>>4325443
/pol/ is full of worthless pieces of shit with damaged psyches whose defense mechanisms mostly involve telling themselves that they're victims and not responsible for their lives, that they're wonderful and smart and [people who aren't white men] ruined everything for them.

a central component of this idea is the idea that the /pol/ack is in fact smart. he alone knows the truth which evil forces have worked so hard to obscure. his self-esteem and ability to deny their complicity in the shittiness of their lives result from this conception of the world

naturally, as an intelligent gentleman, where would the /pol/ack go but /lit/? after all, he's actually really fucking stupid, so what's he going to do but naturally just assume books=smart. so then he comes in, shits up the board, saying things he thinks sound smart.

so goes the story of how /lit/ died

>>4325464

You act like you aren't hypocrites too in this scenario.

Go back to /pol/ if you're really so against immigration and cultural diffusion.

>>4325366
just to clarify here, i'm not siding with the feminists either. although i do think feminists are right to believe that women/minorities are still handicapped by society in many respects (this is not personal conjecture, but i don't really care enough to cover an entire body of research into prejudice for the purposes of strangers on the internet; if you disagree, that's fine, i don't give a shit) and to struggle against this problem, they do tend to go full retard in applying conscious agency where there is often (but not always) none. like as if men got together as a whole and thought, hey lets implant rape desires into women so they can be more easily crushed. fuckin lol. like zizek points out himself with the example of the lynching and the nazis, they also often fail to compartmentalize their arguments so that an affront against one aspect spreads its tendrils and becomes an affront against all aspects alike, but that's just a feature of human stupidity in general i guess.

>>4325461

>muh anecdotal evidence

>>4325473
Shhh. This is what we call cultural enrichment. You silly bigots should welcome this!

>>4325461
>You're setting up a binary distinction between isolation and contact where there is actually a gradient.

We live at the extreme end of the gradient. If you want to be able to communicate news, ideas, culture, etc. with Japan (or any other nation) at the speed of light, you've got to live with the consequences of it. We can't have a global network of commerce and communication on the scale we have today without also accepting that populations and ideas will no longer be contained to national borders.

Welcome to the information age, bro.

>>4325478
Are you trying to show us a point? This is /lit/ we already read and have informed opinions, we have chosen our side but have also read literature from our adversaries? Do you think it's random that 'libshits' are overrepresented in academia and scientifically proven to be smarter than conservatives and other racists.

>>4325612
>scientifically proven to be smarter than conservatives
>scientifically proven

You believe you're smarter... but you also believe this. The cognitive dissonance must be positively debilitating.

Also, do you think it's a coincidence that rightists were massively overrepresented in academia until the 1950s? Clearly they are right. Or maybe academia, like every other part of society, goes through trends and fads. Crazy idea, right?

>>4325488
>what is the language barrier

>>4325751

"cultural dissemination is impossible because of language barriers!" cries anon as he posts on a Japanese-style imageboard

>>4325835
I'm pretty sure that's not what he said... And I don't understand why you think that cultural dissemination is inseparable from or even normally accompanied by miscegenation. Christianity was diffused throughout the entirety of Europe without any linked miscegenation. Rome spread its cultural influence over a vast area without any significant accompanying mixing between the populations that fell under its control.

>>4325852

What part of "we live at the extreme of the gradient" don't you get?

You can't seriously be arguing that the level of cultural diffusion today is comparable to 2000 years ago. You could live your entire life as a barbarian in the Roman dominion without ever seeing what a Roman even looked like.

In a world that relies so much on the high-speed trade of ideas and goods, there's going to be a lot of intermixing of populations.

>>4325835
That's not what I meant at all.
>ideas will no longer be contained to national borders.
You just undervalue the language barrier.

>cries anon as he posts on a Japanese-style imageboard
Exchange of ideas will indeed be mostly image-based, at least until the Anglophone plague becomes pandemic, necessarily accompanied by further decay to the language and every culture it infects.

But you're right. I don't really consider myself American in any traditional sense. I'm a cultural chimera. My relationship with my nation is like that I would have with a college I was accepted to by no merit of my own. A college where I am then forced to pull for the home team and attend games, and I don't even like sports. This is why I long for the preservation of "purer" cultures like Scandinavia and East Asia, and decry any immigration to those places. Basically I'm biased/racist.

>>4325983
Why? That makes no sense at all, that global trade and fast communication is inseparable from intermixing populations. As it is, mass migration is only happening because Western governments are actively encouraging it! We have the power to control migration across our borders.

>>4325999
>This is why I long for the preservation of "purer" cultures like Scandinavia and East Asia

So you're a whiny white weeaboo, basically. Got it.

>Exchange of ideas will indeed be mostly image-based

Colossally retarded. Do you realize that Japan is a western style democracy? That the modern Chinese government was founded on western Marxist ideals? That all of industrial east Asia are western capitalists now? To name just a few of a billion examples.

>>4326040
Do you realize that Japan has become a Western-style democracy /without/ any mixing of its population? That it is still just as Japanese and racially pure as it was 300 years ago? Looks like Japan is the perfect counter-example to your claims...

Intermixing of populations is NOT inevitable, or even difficult to prevent.

>>4326040
>So you're a whiny white weeaboo, basically. Got it.
Basically.
>Exchange of ideas will indeed be mostly image-based
I meant among the bourgeois population (i.e. the one doing the most race-mixing).

>>4326073
>That it is still just as Japanese and racially pure as it was 300 years ago?

This isn't true. Japan has had large influxes of immigrants recently, of Koreans in particular, additionally Chinese and (for whatever reason) Brazilians. They're freaking out over immigration, too.

But I guess I'll never get through to someone who talks about "racial purity" and whose image of Japan comes from their cartoons.

>>4326122

>I meant among the bourgeois population (i.e. the one doing the most race-mixing).

What are you fucking talking about? If you want to discuss in terms of bourgeois/petit-bourgeois/proletariat, then the bourgeois are going to be the most educated class and the most culturally curious. They're going to be conducting the most cross-culture communication. Marxism came to China through urban Chinese intellectuals, not peasant farmers spontaneously deciding to translate Marx's Capital into Mandarin.

I honestly don't even know what you mean by cultural diffusion being "image based" anyway. That's so fucking stupid. You act like translators don't exist. And outside of America, most common people speak two or three languages.

>>4326142
>Japan has had large influxes of immigrants recently, of Koreans in particular, additionally Chinese and (for whatever reason) Brazilians.

Not the guy your responding to, but you need a citation for this claim.

The number of immigrants in Japan is staggeringly low.

>>4326142
Japan: 98.5% Japanese. 0.5% Korean.

Yeah, that's totally population-mixing right there. Undeniably comparable to the 60% white America, or the 85% white Britain.

Face it, you're just a leftist with a fetish for third-world immigrants.

Japan conclusively proves your claims about "inevitability" wrong. There is no reason to allow mass immigration to occur, especially since we can prevent it very easily. People like you just get off to the though of exterminating whitey.

>>4326142
I meant bourgeois as in middle class, which isn't generally the most educated class in America. They're also the most desensitized to cultural appropriation.

If you want to know what I meant by image-based, consider the fact that moot didn't speak fluent Japanese when creating this site. 4chan was not created based on a lingual exchange of ideas, but a visual one.

I will now stop arguing against your misinterpretation of my lazy rebuttal to an earlier point you made.

>>4326218
>moot didn't speak fluent Japanese when creating this site.

He was still influenced by the Japanese web culture of anonymity, not to mention by translations of anime. He didn't speak Japanese yet Japanese culture reached him, that's my entire point. So what are you even trying to argue? That ideas can't cross cultures because of language? Absolutely untrue. That language slows the diffusion of culture? Not to any degree that matters in such a fast paced world. Spain is more like Italy than Mexico. Mexico is more like the United States than Cuba.

>>4326244
>So what are you even trying to argue?

>communicate news, ideas, culture, etc. with Japan (or any other nation) at the speed of light
>speed of light
Against this notion. That's all really.

>>4326244
And it all happened without him banging a Japanese chick. How crazy.

>>4326274
As an addendum, I argue against it based on principle.

When you say that the language barrier doesn't matter because we live in an "fast-paced information age," you undervalue the autonomy of other cultures. We may live in an "English information age," Spain may live in a "Castilian/Basque/Catalan/etc. information age," but to say we live in a capital I "Information Age," simply signifies rampant hypermodern jingoism.

>>4326274

Except we do communicate these things with Japan at the speed of light. There is essentially zero time between a major event in Tokyo and when you can read about it on CNN.com. Tokyo's wire service gets the news out and english speaking news agencies report it to the english speaking world. The news in Tokyo gets to Washington DC just as fast as it gets to Hokkaido.

So you may as well say the anglophone world can't communicate with itself at the speed of light because some people are illiterate. Maybe that's so, but "we" as a culture in America are still instantly connected to what happens in Australia, for instance. And "we" as a culture are just as instantly connected to what happens in Japan.

This applies to broader cultural trends too. Trends in urban Japan are likelier to be noticed by hip urbanites in Chicago before they are by farmers in rural Japan.

>>4326277

moot actually has a qt3.14 Japanese gf now, or so the rumor goes.

it's certainly true that a lot of weeaboos who obsess over Japanese culture also dig their women. It's not as if moot wouldn't fuck a nice looking Japanese girl if he could.

>>4326314
Yes, we English speaking netizens may be able to read Japanese tabloids as quickly as their translated, but wide-scale cultural exchange takes more time.

And we may be connected wirelessly but that doesn't mean our connection goes much deeper than that. Cultural idiosyncrasies are overlooked in favor of Humanist ideology.

>>4326350
>their

they're* I'm fucking tired god.

>>4324695
Dude, are you drunk?

>>4323033
Voice of reason.

>>4324550
>Am sure women too get abused but they can't get raped in prisons as much
because the lack of actual fucking males.

A minor point, but there have been studies done on the number of rapes in all female prisons compared to male ones, and the available data shows about 3-4x more rape in the female ones. For some reason women are more rapey in prison than men. It may be they are more easily coerced than men.