/lit/ - Literature

Not really its true but that doesn't mean you can use it liberally.

>>4311231

Is that your challenger?

>>4311231
Just FYI I work in a mental home so it's my Jon to be a sadistic asshole and I do have to be physical sometimes. Idiots have an overly romanticized view of violence and power because they've never been a part of it.

>>4311232
What?

>>4311228
this is the worst quote ever

>>4311233

I think you don't understand what your original purpose was, friend.

>>4311236

It's awesome, but clearly not for plebs. It doesn't have much bling to it, so you can't show off with it to other pleb turds. Too bad for you.

>>4311238
"Original purpose" what do you mean? I've always been a nice, understanding person. When someone is extremely upset they become irrational and you have to restrain them.

Maybe you think that I enjoy it? No, not really, it's just what's do.

>>4311236

Show us a better one.

>>4311246

You said it was your Jon to be a sadistic asshole. Restraining someone and being a sadistic asshole to them are two very different things.

>>4311247
I pooped a gloop and named it slothcrap.

>>4311243
>doesn't agree that this is a super badass quote like I know it is
>pleb
yup, I'm on /lit/

>>4311246
>Maybe you think that I enjoy it?

Sadists enjoy inflicting pain on others, if you don't, you're not a sadist, and if you don't, why use the word to describe yourself in the first place?

>>4311250
You don't understand the relativity of it all, dude. Some f these guys are addicted to cigarettes. We limit how often they can smoke, because otherwise they will chain smoke a whole pack. When I'm not giving them cigarettes, it's a form of sadism because I have to put them in pain.

>>4311252

Stop trying damage control, pleb, you've been flushed out.

>>4311254
Because much of life in a mental home is paradoxically satisfying on a savage level, when you dominate other people you feel powerful. It can make you irrational.

>>4311257

Sadism is when you enjoy it. If you don't, it's not sadism, because you do it for their own good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ

>>4311259

You must have a really low self-esteem to derive any sort of pride or power feeling from dominating mentally retarded and crazy people.

I feel sorry for you, bro. I dominate elephants for a living and even then I don't feel that sort of power-tripping.

epic edginess /b/ro

>>4311258
sure thing, kiddo. I know it's a super tough amazing quote from a sci-fi(lol) book that can never be trumped.

>>4311228
"Who live by the sword, perish by the word." Gospel According to Matthew, that's the deep answer to your quote but no one seems to find it interesting except me.

>>4311265

>sci-fi is silly!
>kiddo
>lol

>>4311268

It goes well with it. Soldiers know what's coming to them. It's part of the deal.

I think it sounds dumb considering that we all will die eventually. The power to make the inevitable happen is kinda pointless .

>>4311263
I've done animals before too bro, it's just different with humans.

>>4311273

You obviously haven't experienced 40 years in slavery and daily rape.

>why so dumb

Anyway, guys, none of you, almost, are showing me better quotes.

Get to it, dense motherfuckers.

>>4311247
There are no good quotes. Quotes are for people who can't think for themselves. Express your own self instead of hanging onto others doing it.

>>4311277

>so it goes

>>4311277
Tell me about your 40 years as a sex slave.

Fearlessness in those without power is maddening to those who have it

"The power to cause pain is occasionally useful as a type of negative reinforcement to correct counterproductive behavior, but tends to be less useful in general than using rewards to reinforce positive behavior, the power to kill and destroy is almost never useful and even if you have it, should be played down and used only in extreme circumstances, since it leads to fear and insecurity which can stifle innovative thinking and lead to avoidance behaviors, escape and defensive compensations and paralyze productive thinking, whether you can kill or not,you are always subject to those who can, though of course it will almost never be in anyone's best intersts to kill you, since it puts them in danger of retributive consequences, negative publicity, legal responses and the effort and resources wasted in doing it my not be recoverable., also, many people and institutions will be readily available to support defend and rescue you"

FTFY

violence is the first recourse of the incompetent

“Love is a trick played on us by the forces of evolution. Pleasure is the bait laid down by the same. There is only power. Power is of the individual mind but the mind's power is not enough. Power of the body decides everything in the end and only might is right.”

>>4311228
>The power to cause pain is the only power that matters
>the power to kill and destroy
two entirely different arguments
>if you can't kill then you are always subject to those who can
really? how am i subject, in any aspect of my daily life in the privileged western world, to someone with the power to kill? what relevance does 'killing power' have to my world?
>nothing and no one will ever save you
what is government, what is law


>deeper and more emotional
If you've never read anything deeper or more emotional than Ender's Game then you must be very young or very ignorant.

“Can’t repeat the past?…Why of course you can!”

>>4311243
How is it awesome? It's the plainest thing one could ever say. It has nothing profound to it, all it says is: "we al animal now dawg"

>>4311277

>>4311282
On the one hand, I support you on asserting that quoting too much without saying something yourself is being a parrot. But on the other hand, some people have said certain things so accurately that it is relevant to use pick their words as bird flying and catching in the air some grains which is a good metaphor to represent "thinking", it is used by Montaigne, especially. (God! a quote!)

>>4311228
What is hell? I maintain that is the suffering of being unable to love.

I have the passion to understand people. (JPS)

Doesn't that quote completely contradict Ender's state of mind by the end of the book, meaning that you learned absolutely nothing from reading it?

>>4311307
>"we al animal now dawg"

the typo somehow made this more accurate.

>>4311332
>implying it wasn't on purpose

>>4311308
>some people have said certain things so accurately that it is relevant to use pick their words
I disagree. If you understand something, then you can express it according to your understanding. What someone else express can never substitute your own expression when it comes to your own understanding. If you think it can, it means you don't really understand what you're trying to say.

>>4311345
I figured it was. I'm just being a pedantic fucktard pls ignore.

>>4311350
>Implying I could commentate on the human experience like Shakespeare, family like Faulkner, or absurdity like Vonnegut.

Your arrogance is unbecoming.

>>4311359
Perhaps not, but their expression doesn't reflect your understanding. You are the only one who can express your understanding. To quote means to leave the explanation to someone whose understanding is not the same as yours, meaning you pass on something you don't understand yourself, which is reckless, lazy, and disrespectful, because you're essentially lying to others while avoiding to find out the limits of your understanding.

>>4311389
My understanding isn't limited to my word-crafting. I don't see why you would think so.

>>4311389
This is ridiculous logic and you should feel ashamed for spouting it as if you're making sense. Apply this to literally anything other than quoting a book and see how it sounds.

>>4311395
I'd be happy if you could use some examples of what you claim, since you're taking a contrary position.
>>4311394
You mean that you can understand what someone else said like it was you who said it? How can you verify something like that?

>>4311282

>books are for people who can't write books themselves

>movies are for people who can't make movies themselves

You're fucking stupid.

>>4311531
Are you suggesting that reading is only the memorization of passages of text?

>>4311287

I was a child mercenary in Africa, then prisoner of war. I was raped daily for 20 years. Around age 35, they stopped the sexual assault but I still worked in a labour camp.

I don't think you believe so that's all I'll say.

>>4311291

Not bad.

>>4311296

And the last of the sane.

>>4311304

Your world is a bubble made by countless murders. You're just too sheltered to see.

>If you've never read anything deeper or more emotional than Ender's Game then you must be very young or very ignorant.

Let's see what you've got: give me your list of deep and emotional novels. I sure can read some good stuff from your list.

At that point Gilgamesh sat down, weeping,
his tears streaming over the side of his nose.
"Counsel me, O ferryman Urshanabi!
For whom have my arms labored, Urshanabi!
For whom has my heart's blood roiled!
I have not secured any good deed for myself,
but done a good deed for the 'lion of the ground'!"
Now the high waters are coursing twenty leagues distant,'
as I was opening the conduit(?) I turned my equipment over
into it (!).
What can I find (to serve) as a marker(?) for me!
I will turn back (from the journey by sea) and leave the boat by
the shore!"
At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
They arrived in Uruk-Haven.
Gilgamesh said to Urshanabi, the ferryman:
"Go up, Urshanabi, onto the wall of Uruk and walk around.
Examine its foundation, inspect its brickwork thoroughly--
is not (even the core of) the brick structure of kiln-fired brick,
and did not the Seven Sages themselves lay out its plan!
One league city, one league palm gardens, one league lowlands, the open area(?) of the Ishtar Temple,
three leagues and the open area(?) of Uruk it encloses.

>>4311307

I'm focusing more on what it means that the quote itself.

You guys are staring at the finger when someone shows you something. This is why you fail at being God-tier tasteful patricians.

>reads a quote
>stares at quote
>pleb-tier shitass fuck

>reads a quote
>stares at meaning and implications
>Patrician-core elite master

>>4311539
How did you end up posting on 4chan, if I might ask? Pardon I just don't think I've run across anyone on this site with a history like that.

>>4311313

>being unable to love

It has many advantages. To quote Lewis, "There are only two places where Love can't hurt you: Heaven and Hell."

I get chills.

>>4311329

Maybe it does. The quote isn't from the end of the book. When Ender says/thinks this, he is none too happy about it.

Think being attacked by Nazis and realising that nothing short of brute violence can defend yourself against those who count on brute violence to fuck you.

>>4311350
>I disagree. If you understand something, then you can express it according to your understanding.

Sure, but that's for people who think ego is more important than substance. Why recraft a sentence that does the job just as well? For ego's sake? Thanks, but no thanks. I don't read or think to stroke my ego or yours.

>>4311359

Seconded.

>>4311228
the quote has angsty teen written all over it. not only do you like it but you think it's the deepest thing you've got?

oh wow it's a doggie dog world. people act cut-there-oats. so sad.

>>4311577
>Sure, but that's for people who think ego is more important than substance
In short, a person should never speak a word of his own, he or she should only use quotes? Then he would be less egocentric? Never one use an expression of his or her own? What about physical expression? Should they never make a movement they haven't copied from a Bruce Lee flick?

>>4311589
reaching

>>4311607
No, he's directly stated that if someone has done something "better" than you, then to do it any other way is arrogance.

>>4311538

Absolutely not. I don't even see why you'd say that.

>>4311559

Not very complicated. I saught asylum in another country, got it, started studying, found a job as a teacher, discovered the Internet, found 4chan, checked it out, appreciated the smart (albeit sometimes retarded) and stuck around.

>>4311584

Yeah yeah yeah... I didn't ask to hear how butthurt you were, but I am interested in better quotes, so if you're going to shit on that quote, provide a better or shut the fuck up.

>>4311611
or originality. call it arrogance only if it doesn't work. duh.

>>4311628
No, he's said nothing of the sort.

Serious question: why does Ender's Game trigger such insecurity in so many of you?

>>4311700
elaborate? I think the consensus here is it's a pretty good story, kind of juvenile but not too badly told, and a good example of the author's work, and the genre at the time it was written. Nobody thinks it's the bible, or subversive, or a manifesto on life or anything.

Just a fun read with a little depth and a bit trite at times.

>>4311228
>"The power to cause pain is the only power that matters, the power to kill and destroy, because if you can't kill then you are always subject to those who can, and nothing and no one will ever save you."

I bet you cut yourself at night too.

>>4311228
>I challenge you to find a deeper and more emotional quote.

''With great power comes great responsibility''

Now scram pleb.

>>4311729

It's deeper than you seem to realise. You're probably white, sheltered, and you hate your parents.

"When I look up, I see people cashing in. I don't see heaven or saints or angels. I see people cashing in on every decent impulse and every human tragedy."

When I read it as a kid I was pretty struck by it.

>>4311734

Basically says the same thing but not as impactful. Try again.

>scram pleb

You're quite the badass drill sergent, sir.

>>4311736
the problem wit it is it overtates, asserts without qualification and makes staements that don't follow: why would your ability to kill have anything to do with other's ability to kill you? whther you have a gun or not, somebody else can shoot you. and there's less risk involved for him if you're armed, from a legal standpoint.

I mean, the President Kennedy was one of the best armed ,most powerful guys around when one crazy guy took him out. Power and the ability to kill makes you a bigger target.

>>4311762
>why would your ability to kill have anything to do with other's ability to kill you?

In a war, or fight to the death, the only thing that will stop the other from killing you is you killing them.

I didn't think it was so obscure.

As to Kennedy, he was most likely the last line of defense against what is currently in power. First in line makes you more likely to die, but those who don't die become bitches. Most Americans are now milk cows and bitches, living lives not worth dying for. It's far worse than murder if you ask me.

>>4311738
his quote is more coherent, mature, and concise. it's also much less edgy

>>4311816

I admit that Ender's quote, out of context, doesn't sound as good as in context. I saw it before I even knew what it was from and it didn't impress me much. Read the book. Get over the free indirect speech and the proto-Internet raise to fame and you'll have a great time.

>>4311780
So dying should be the goal of the powerful? to avoid becoming bitches? And if they have power why not kill themselves, since who could prevent them?

in a "fight to the death" one person would have to die for the other to live, but I think most of us are beyond thunderdome.
and in war there are lots of ways to wwin without killing your opponent. getting him to surrender for instance, though i guess that would amke him a "bitch" or "milk cow" or something?

Also, you've categorized americans from a very narrow point of view, which most of them probably don't share. You can't expect anyone to just take your word that they should feel bad about their lives because you percieve them as less than slaves, if they think of themselves as free men and commanders of their separate destinies.

what a man's life is worth, and whether he should be pursuing power or attempting to control others instead of what he's doing depends on his own ideals, and not what you think he ought to be doing.

Also, even if you think of Kennedy as a stalking horse for a liberal power structure to hide behind or whatever, he had a lot more real power than the man who killed him did, but he still died.

>>4311831

Man... you're way off the mark, by accident or by design, I'm not sure.

You need some Hitler. Anything that isn't downright war is derived from it. You're not shooting at Chinese people but you definitely live off policies and ways to deal with the Chinese that kill many of them. No one is innocent. We all have blood on our hands, and who you don't kill with guns, you kill by buying goods, food, and etc.

Everyone is always at war. There are just more wars than you know, and the deadliest aren't the showiest.

>>4311851

This.

>any population needs to feed
>limited resources
>war is inescapable, in one form or another

>>4311228
>implying
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

>>4311867

Is war possible without an enemy?

>>4311930

No.

Will there ever be shortage of an enemy?

No.

All you need is limited resources and enemies will appear.

>>4311851
Well, that's war as a metaphor for any type of percieved conflict, not just "armed confrontation" of one nation against another in pursuit of percieved individual interests" or whatever. Your "war" would be like saying green is at war with red, sellers are at war with buyers, even gift givers are at war with those who recieve the gifts. Hell, it's broad enough to include all forms of symbiosis, from parasitism to mutualism. By your definition, two individuals who make an arrangement in which both benefit greatly are at war somehow.

And while i recognize that hitler was a powerful individual who suicided, i don't see why the goal of power should be suicide, even though "the first to die don't become bitches" or whatever. Though that might have indeed been in hit;er's mind for all i know.

I have no problem with your loose definition of war in accepting that "everyone is always at war" in the senmse that everyone pursues what he sees as his own interests, and decides for himself what he will do to pursue them, regardless of the intersts of others or respectful of them as he chooses, but i think you should consider the possibility that at the same time, by just as loose a defintion, nobody is ever at war, since he cannot really know what the results of his acts ultimately are or whether they benefit him ultimately in an unequivocal way. he may be fighting, but he has no idea whose side he's one, his own included, and senseless directionless struggle isn't war, by most defintions

>>4311930
by the definitions promulgated in this thread, sure: "war" seems to include anything exchanged between two people or groups, as long as they both (or one of them) has its own intersts foremost.

>>4311941
>, that's war as a metaphor for any type of percieved conflict,

No. It's not a metaphor, it's derivative of actual war. Trading with a country isn't far from fighting with it.

>>4311938
>>4311941

I love capitalism

>>4311941
>hitler was a powerful individual who suicided,

You don't really believe that, do you? Even Stalin didn't believe that.

>bunker
>20 people
>nobody has the same version

Typical Nazi covering tracks. No Hitler body ever found. He wasn't caught. Plain fucking simple.

>>4311962
not far no: but while trade is carried out for mutual benefit, where something you have a surplus of is exchanged for somthing i have a surplus of, war is seldom mutually beneficial, and often mutually detrimental, especially in the last hundred years or so.So while you can say they're sort of the same thing (or not far apart), and while war can be used as a tool of trade, and trade as a tool of war, and both as tools of diplomacy, I don't see how they can be directly equivalated, except as a metaphor.

>>4311987
no, they have his skull, in russia. DNA authenticated.

>>4311991

Easy:

>China exploits its people
>we pay China for the fruits of their abuse

China leaders are at war against their own people and we enable them, thus making us at at war with the basic Chinaman too.

>>4311994

Authenticated by whom? Trevor Roper of the British Secret Service?

They bullshitted all the way.

>one bollock theory

Come on.

>>4311999
no, they found it in the KBG restricted stuff after the soviet union collapsed, and yes there was DNA testing. As I recall though they couldnt tell if the wound was self-inflicted or also whther it might have been a brother or close cousin of hitler.

>>4312009

Where did they get the other DNA from Hitler, to compare with?

>>4311996
Again, you're using war as a metaphor, basically meaning: "we pursue our own intersts, irregardless of the interests of the chinese people, or their leaders, and the leaders pursue their own ends regardless of ours, as well as those of their peope" "war" is an okay metaphor for that, but it's not really war without "armed conflict, engaged in by two sovereign powers..." blah blah blah. calling anything else war is being metaphoric, which is perfectly alright.

>>4312010
matrilineal I think. Don't hold me to that though, I read the article twenty years ago in some physical anthropology journal or other.

>>4312017

Having people serve a life of slavery for others is not a metaphor for war, it is war. People die, people attack others, people defend themselves.

>>4312022

So they sampled his mom? How?

>bullshit

>>4312033
no, it was members of his matrilineal relatives. thats why they couldn't get any closer than brother or cousin. they didnt have a patrilineal dna sample, since his male parentage is in dispute.

>>4312043

Can you really prove anything with a relative rather than the person directly? I'm not genetician but I am skeptical of this.

>>4311966
You're so erudite

this thread is literally the epitome of everything I hate about /lit/. I'm done. Time to go to Reddit or something. Good job guys

>>4312049
geneticist. yeah, you share half your dna with your mother, your father and yoru siblings.if you have the same parents, it's pretty easy to establish that you're brothers through DNA analysis. If your cousins it might be impossible to tell to what exact degree, though. and with only half the DNA (as from one parent to compare to yours, the msot you could tell is that you were certainly at least the offspring of the mother, or of one of her siblings.

The hitelr thing could easily have been faked with the skull of any of hitler's cousins, or even an uncle or brother, though, if you're conspiracy minded.

>>4312083

>conspiracy minded
>trusting the USSR

Sorry but no. The USSR lied countless times and this was proven.

>Katyn was Nazis!
>nope, it wasn't

They made so much shit up, you have virtually no right NOT to doubt them.

>>4312052
Ascot is a clear sign of false consciousness

>>4312077
>word
Time to go outside, soak up uv rays

>>4312092
It's a weird thing to lie about though. And it obviously wasnt the soviets that did the analysis, though the supplied the sample.

Is there any good reason to pretend to have the skull of hitler when you don't, unless you plan to put it on ebay? I mean there's no doubt he's dead.

Now I wouldn't be at all surprised if Osama is stuffed and mounted somewhere, or even if he wasnt really dead and they tortured him for information and then killed him, but that's as far as I'm willing to speculate. Elvis is probably dead too.

>>4311558
>quotes
>patrician

>>4312115
Fred from scooby doo has a false consciousness?

>>4312119

>weird thing to lie about

How so? How is it weird to avoid admitting defeat to the entire world? If Hitler wasn't dead, he had escaped, and that's not good news for the Allies.

>>4312150
well, defeating germany was the point. Hitler could have skipped to switzerland or somehwere and published memoirs or whatever and the allies wouldnt have been defeated. I doubt there would have been many places that would have taken him in, but a few might have. and Hitler hiding in an attic and living on handouts is as good as dead, really: he's no longer a political factor. I think "The manhunt for Hitler!" would hve been a better opportunity to keep the ball rolling than a dead hitler myself.

>>4312213

>Indonesia
100% Muslim, 100% antisemitic.

Tons of places would have taken him in.

>South America
Tons of Nazis fled there. Why not him?

>>4312233
Exactly. he ahd plenty of support and safe places to sit and send out press releases and rally support and give pep talks to followers in hiding and basically taunt the allies. But nothing. Not a peep. And while opinions differ, he didn;t strike me as the kind of caoward that would hide out and pretend to be dead to avoid possible repercussions. He'd have been making stump speeches and sending out dispatches ala Osama if he'd been capable of it.

>>4312261

Wrong.

To maintain Nazi ideals in the postwar world, you needed to be smarter. He was. He helped South American nations to become Fascist.

>>4312267
How exactly? And are they? Also, wouldnt his considerable strengths at public speaking and rallying support, his major political assets, have been a bigger help than skulking in a cave and giving advice? I mean his charisma and reputation is arguably a far more useful weapon than any insights he could have provided, especially by that time when he was pretty deteriorated.

>>4312279

He was more powerful dead than alive.

>>4312284
yeah, but we're not discussing time-travelling zombie super hitler here....

>>4311243
>Using the term 'pleb' unironically
muh sides

"Like chocolate, strawberries, and liquid carpet cleaner, too much salmon will riuin a good meal."

I will hold this in my heart always.

>>4311228
>A word to wholesalers and retailers of the Devil Girl Choco-Bar. It may seem to you the depths of marketing ignorance to state in bold letters on the package 'IT'S BAD FOR YOU', but think about it... this is a brilliant strategy in consideration of kids today; a stupid, know-nothing generation of brain-dead morons who want nothing more than to be 'BAD'. We're certain this morally bankrupt horde of 'slackers' will eat up this low-grade product as fast as you can place it on your candy counter. The sharp, up-to-date business operator will not fail to perceive the beauty - and reap the profits - in the hook 'IT'S BAD FOR YOU!'.

too near the bone
too close to home

>>4311539
pic and timestamp or gtfo you lying faggot

>>4314300

It's been 3 hours and you're digging this horrendous thread up?

"There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever."

... to those being born and to those dying
To those hoping, waiting, trying,
I warn them to enjoy this moment, this day, this year
For they'll find no happy endings here

>>4313826

Only quote so far that I deem worthy of interest.

- OP

>>4314305

I accept this as well. 1984 surprised me. I expected whining about Big Bro, I got Satan instead. I forced myself through 10 hours of reading near the end, I couldn't stop.

It scarred me forever.

>tfw you look at the book and feel genuine fear