/lit/ - Literature

The Bible

>>4240900
LotR

/Closes thread

>>4240909
LotR isn't a series

A Song of Swords and Japes

>>4240900
1. Gormenghast.

Discworld
Wheel of Time
Dark Tower
Keys to the Kingdom
Dragonriders of Pern
Dresden Files
A Song of Ice and Fire
Harry Potter
Chronicles of Narnia.
OZ

This is all up for dissent, but Gormenghast is the top, and the next 10 are all important fantasy series, each for its own reason. You're sure to find one or two of them that you like.

>>4240908
The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins >>4240900
not that hard to poke at peoples beliefs you jackass.

>>4240928

>>4240928
True, if a tad pedantic.

The Middle Earth Series
Including The Hobbit, the Silmarillion, The Lord of the Rings, and assorted works published by his kid.

>>4241537
lel

I want some fantasy series aimed for adults that ISN'T deep/medieval fantasy (ie GoT, LoTR)

Any suggestions?

>>4240900

Malazan would have to be one of the better fantasy series out there.

>>4242412

What is it in particular that you don't want to read in a fantasy series? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'deep' fantasy because you mention Game of Thrones which is considered low fantasy but then you mention something that is considered high fantasy.

>>4242412
gormenghast, dawg

>>4241496
Discworld isn't a series but it's worth nominating because of the writing capability of Pratchett. These are the only books that made me laugh out loud physically when reading, it's wordplay after wordplay and interesting characters and stories on top of that.

Wheel of Time is pretty up there, it got a lot of people, including me, into reading, it's like a gateway drug for fantasy, which is a gateway drug for other genres.
>>4242564
>1st book so badly written and so badly presents the series that the author has to defend his shitty writing before the book begins
no

I'm a huge fantasy fan.

Overall right now I'd say Stormlight Archives (only 1st book is out at the moment, Way of Kings) can potentially be one of the best series ever.

>>4242771

I haven't seen any of the defense you speak of. Do you have a link where I can read this?
The first book is not as fluid as his later books but to say its badly written is a little much and seems to be jumping on the bandwagon that I've seen permeate fantasy boards of late. As for badly presenting the series I would have to agree. There is so little exposition in any Malazan book, especially the first one so I can see why people would be put off.
Basically, you're a fly on the wall. No backstory, no explanation. Whether that aspect of Malazan could be seen as bad writing is up to each individual reader but if you stick with the series, you will be rewarded.

I think Everworld might be up there, in concept at least. The execution is not quite perfect, but I enjoyed it.

>>4240900
I personally like the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series. But hey, that's just me.

I really liked Piers Anthony's Xanth series. It was my first book series though, so I'm probably biased.

The bad puns actually made me laugh too.

>>4242876
How far into it? I stopped around book eighteen, wish I had stopped at seven-ish. I think it's at around thirty-seven by now.

On a side note, I can't wait for Christopher Paolini's next book/series, he showed a lot of promise in the Inheritance cycle. Well, he showed a lot of growth from Eragon, which he wrote when he was quite young, to Inheritance.

>>4242882
I ended up reading all his books during my teenage years. I always thought it was a bit creepy how he went into detail when describing the character's bodies, even the child characters.

"The Color of Her Panties" is my favorite one in the series though.

>>4242894
It was mine, too, but I was a horny pre-teen. I think if I chose now it'd be the third one, where they go back in time.

>>4242876
Christ that's a lot of books.


Has anyone published more than Asimov?

>>4242412
What exactly do you mean by that?

No magic? No epic scope? No ancient evil?

>>4242771
>Stormlight Archives
What's so good about it?

I don't read much fantasy, but I'm always willing to give things a shot

Farseer saga. Robin Hobb is the best writer of all the fantasy writers.

>>4242959

Why is she the best writer of all the fantasy writers?

>>4241545
Tolkien wrote it as one book, he had to release in three parts due to post-war paper shortages and to keep the pricing down

>>4242959

Read the first book and found it horrible boring.

>>4242949
It has power armor, prophecies, giant monsters, armies, things that would make you think it lacks in other areas, but it doesn't

the story is engaging, the characters are great, the world is complex and you want to find out more about it

Sanderson is usually just passable and gives you an entertaining story set in an interesting world, but this is another level for him entirely.

>>4242959
See this is one series that excells in one aspect, feels.

It has few action scenes in either of the books, but you don't care

I thought to myself what's with this writer, it's excellent but it's too much about people's emotions without much adventure, then I found out it's a woman, and it made sense.

Very good books, I just prefer Way of Kings because it has all the elements, even if it won't excell in any aspect except for maybe creativity and world-building, and even there you can bring up other series like Wheel of Time that would surpass it, but only in one particular regard.

I didn't care to finish the trilogy about the liveship traders though, so she's not THE best in my mind, probably because of the focus on teenage girls fucking around with dresses while their families are going bankrupt but farseer trilogy is one of the best things in the genre that I've experienced so far.
>>4242829
It's in the preface of later Gardens of the Moon editions, where he defends the first book for being the opposite of a hook for readers.
There are books where there isn't any exposition and you go with the flow, they don't need to be this horrible an experience, and they are cohesive from the start.

>>4243003

Another series I want to recommend although I doubt people will praise it much is Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. It's similar to LOTR, if you like LOTR you'll probably like this, only this has a main character translated into a world like that in LOTR, and he does horrible shit because he doesn't believe in its reality. It's a very introspective series that's written in archaic language, probably to seem like a geniune chronicle, but I enjoy it immensely and all the horrible stuff that people overcome in it, all the people that sacrifice for love, it's beautiful even if it's super dark and not a cheerie adventure like the Hobbit.
Reading this series where people from our world who have horrible things happen to them (disease, social isolation, parents suicide, parents death), and eventually overcome them and save the Land made me cope with seeing my mother pass away from cancer less than a month ago. It's not just a fairy tale, it's people battling the evil inside of them and resisting despair, which is physically present in the world where they are sent, real or not.

>>4243003

I found Gardens of the Moon quite enjoyable and I'm currently up to Memories of Ice and it's now my favourite fantasy series. I don't see how you could find it horrible really but each to his own.

>>4242992

Because the prose is superb and occasionally universally poignant. She writes like a poet, with excellent timing, subtle and profound in turn at the right moments. And even though it's one of the beautiful things fantasy can do, it's rare to find a fantasy writer who has something relevant to say about life in general rather than just about their fantasy universe. Hobb writes relatable characters and broadly applicable themes.

>>4243003

I just finished the first book of the Liveship Traders, years after reading the Farseer books. I sort of liked the sparsity of action in the Farseer books, because it made the lives of the characters seem more real and the action that did occur seem more intense. And when there was action, people got hurt. When characters slaughter armies of (insert fantasy minion here) every few chapters, there's no real sense of danger or accomplishment.

As for the Liveship Traders, I liked the shifting viewpoints. Reading Malta's chapters in book one was painful, but at the same time enjoyable to see how she can write from even insufferable perspectives. It's like if we'd have more than a few paragraphs of Regal's perspective in the Farseer trilogy. She shows her villains as stupid and flawed but still human and perhaps redeemable. We'll see if I can finish the trilogy, but I like it so far.

>>4242412
You could try 1Q84

>>4243116
Infact 1Q84, would be up there on my list. I really spellbinding series, although much different from the type of fantasy you guys seem to be talking about

Black Company

>adults who read fantasy

>>4242884
Are you serious

The last book in that series was an absolute trainwreck

>>4243185
Aren't you a big boy for not doing so.

Congratulations.

>>4243118
>really spellbinding series

Into the trash it goes!

>>4243185
>adults visiting 4chan

>>4243223
FOR YOU

>>4242412
Keys to the Kingdom,
Modern Times, Lots of WTF Geography,
and a little bit of steampunk.
Or Dresden Files,
But the downside is those aren't aimed toward Adults.

You might have a hard time of it finding one, Because most of the ones that are original and not based off of LOTR tend to be aimed toward YA or childrens.

>>4243250
>>4243223
>>>/tv/
>>>/out/

I really didn't like Malazan. I gave up half way through the second book when I realized that I just didn't care about any of the characters at all. I get that it's probably a valid technique to almost never explain anything and have the reader figure out all the details of the world, but I just didn't enjoy reading it.

>>4242579
Game of Thrones is a medieval setting, I'd think. I'd like something in a modern setting, particularly with some magic realism.

>>4242944
No, no, all of those things are great for me as long as they're set in a modern setting
>>4243116
One of my favorite books is After Dark and somehow I haven't gotten around to reading this one. I had no idea it was fantasy actually. I'll hop to it, then
>>4243259
>You might have a hard time of it finding one, Because most of the ones that are original and not based off of LOTR tend to be aimed toward YA or childrens.
Thanks! Yeah I've been looking for a while but it always brings me to some YA paranormal romance bs on Goodreads. I'll check your suggestions out
>>4242725
Looks interesting, will read

thanks dudes

>>4243423
>Thanks! Yeah I've been looking for a while but it always brings me to some YA paranormal romance bs on Goodreads. I'll check your suggestions out
Yeah, I'd say you're going to run into a lot of YA when searching for original fantasy, but there's a difference in what you'll come across, There's the paranormal romance crap, but there's also a lot of stuff that doesn't insult your intelligence or have prose that makes you want to tear your hair out, it's just labeled YA because of tone or reading level.
And honestly, I'm not sure what to think about the classification system. As many Classics are labeled YA nowadays, Brothers Karamazov is in my library's YA section, no joke, As is a lot of Asimov, so it's a mixed bag, obviously the classification envelops a lot of pure crap like Twilight and its emulators, but we're not yet to the point where you can take the label as a sign of quality
I don't know, either, why a significant amount of the adult targeted fantasy follows in the LOTR footsteps, but I have a theory that LOTR just had such a significant impact on the genre as a whole, that it takes a while for the genre to adjust, and that YA simply burns through the concepts faster than adult fiction, and literary.

only one series I keep reading, maybe just because of the edrama the author dregs up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Nothing

>>4243191
Well it was my first fantasy series all those years ago...

You should try Johnathan strange and Mr Norell. Not a series but its about 1000 pages so it could have easily been three books. It's kind of a mix between Napoleonic history and Shakespeare style magic. A really fun and original read

the Queen's Thief

I like the Earthsea series.

>>4241496
You forgot His Dark Materials.

>>4244239
Oh god yes this forever this. When I finished reading it, I told every friend of mine for the next six months to read it.

>>4244239
This is one of the only good fantasy books ever written. I need to reread it.

>>4246367
eh

>>4241496
>>4242725
>Gormenghast

Agonizingly boring.

>>4247472
If you're 10 years old, yes.

>>4240928

Tolkiens Legendarium then you fuck, or perhaps you could be really pedantic, and call it the Red Book of Westmarch.

Anyone ever read To Your Scattered Bodies Go?

>>4241496

There's only two series in your abortion of a shortlist that belong in any top anything list, and here's a hint, it'd be top children's fantasy literature.

Redwall is the best children's fantasy series

>inb4 some smartass quip about all fantasy series being for children

It's Lord of the Rings, by the way.

It really is.

>>4243007

>That one fucker who does nothing but recommend the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

I'm going to try it, sooner or later, and if I don;t like it, you will be hearing from me.

>>4248604

Martin the Warrior may well be the greatest single rendition of the standard "slave escaping and seeking revenge" story ever written. I'm not joking.

>>4248596
Let the bodies hit the floor?

>>4248604
>>4248625
My niggas. I must have read nearly all of the books in that series, I barely remember half of them though. I only remember one about some otters or pirates or something who were relatives, I think, as the main characters and it made me feel sad, but otters and pirates are in something like 90% of the series.

>>4248625

While absolutely true, the series is still too samey to read more than three.

>>4240909
great, elitism, just what I came here for

>>4242412
>GoT
>deep

choose one

>>4242884
Christopher pls go

>>4242884

I think you mean he showed a lot of growth and promise between Eragon and Brisingr, and then threw it all away by spending 4 years writing literally the worst ending to a fantasy series (that's lest be honest, was middling at it's best) ever. It was incomprehensible, contradicted the earlier books in multiple ways, and manages somehow to be more of a doorstopper than Brisingr, without anything actually happening.

I feel like, when he looked back at his earlier books as a grown man, he saw them for the embarrassing pulp they were, and wanted to distance themselves from it so much that he had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the end by his editors. Not only that, but by trying to suddenly switch tones and writing styles, he only succeeded in producing two mediocre bodies of work (I refuse to see inheritance as part of the same series, it feels that distinct,) instead of the one halfway decent one he could have had if he stuck to his guns.

>>4243468
>why a significant amount of the adult targeted fantasy follows in the LOTR footsteps
It doesn't, you moron. You can count the number of books that 'follow in LOTR footsteps' on the fingers of one hand, and most of these books were published over 20 years ago.

>Redwall Series
>Discworld Series
>Narnia Series
>Middle Earth "writings"
mfw only Brits can write fantasy.

>>4249098
>Who is Michael Ende? What is "Der Spiegel im Spiegel"?

>>4240900
Can't speak for the rest of the series but Deadhouse Gates is easily the best work of fiction I've read in my life.

>>4242829
He is speaking about the foreword. The one where he defends the lack of exposition, the frantic pacing and the overwhelming information.

He's essentially admitting that a lot of people are not going to get past the first hundred pages due to his writing style. The poster you're quoting is mistaking that for admitting to being a bad writer. Said poster is an idiot.

Gardens of the Moon is a book that rewards patience.

>>4242959
I don't know about the Farseer bits, but that canon is definitely a close third after LOTR and Gormenghast

>>4242999
It's only uphill from there

Particularly the last Six Duchies trilogy and the last Rain Wilds series

>>4243185
>adults

>>4249200
I, myself, am a bit more conflicted about Hobb.

The second book of the Farseer ones (Royal Assassin perhaps?) is the one I remember most fondly. Probably because I read it as a dumb kid, barely a teenager, so it resonated with me quite thoroughly. But now, more than over a dozen years later, I can't but feel slightly weird about the book.

On some levels it was about Twilight-esque unrequited homo/beast-lust. On some it's a story about wrecking and destroying a man so thoroughly that he is happy to commit suicide and die consentingly quite a few times during the course of the books. On some it's an impressive worldbuilding exercise, though we only see glimpses of it here and there - this becomes especially appareant at the end of the second series about Fitz, which goes basically: mystery, mystery, mystery, lol here's what really went on since the very beginning, the happy? end. Also there's something I can't exactly put my finger on about her discription of the world which feels off.

She's also not as subtle as she could be or she thinks she is (unless the homolust is intententional, in which case it's mostly the PERFECT amount of subtelty, though why it is only applied to romantic implications of the forbidden variety is beyond me).

tl;dr She's good enough, has a ladyboner for gays, but she's not perfect. And it's not all uphill, rather it's like being pulled through a flat garden on a slow cart on rails while wearing sunglasses in a rainy day with a sign at the end telling you which exotic and colourful flowers you just might or might not have seen.

>>4241496
>>4243259

Please tell me there is only one poster with taste this bad who posted twice, and not two separate idiots posting this stuff.

>>4249462
>unless the homolust is intententional, in which case it's mostly the PERFECT amount of subtelty

It's very intentional. And being gay, I'm cool with that. As for homo/beast-lust, I didn't catch that. I never saw any sort of lust or romance in the man/beast relationships.

Where I really noticed the subtlety (I know, odd thing to say) is in the portrayal of magic, particularly in the first book. The first time Fitz uses the Wit you're just like, "huh, what's all this then?" What can and can't be done naturally evolves rather than anyone sitting down and explaining all of the rules of the magical system. It's a fluid part of the world itself rather than some RPG-like construct.

>>4249462
I'm not so hot on the Six Duchies aspects of the canon, I prefer the whole dragon bits, particularly how she manages to tie the most recent series in with the whole skill bit and Fitz's denouement

I keep waiting for an explicit cross over, and I'm quite disappointed that the broken pane is the closest she's got

>>4249519
>I never saw any sort of lust or romance in the man/beast relationships.

I probably read too much into that, but there were cautionary tales of witted folk leaving their husbands and wives to live with their beast and keeping a distance between yourself and the animal. When that bear thought the ways to Fitz, I now envision it as him going: nigga, you this close to spooning your dog, dog, that shit be nasty. Also there's a bit where Hobb addresses this issue by compairing their love to something platonic (I can't remeber what exactly) which felt forced slightly.

Also, I have nothing against the gays being in the story, but it was weird to not have anything happen between any of the appareant pairings. Another passage comes to mind, where Fitz quite literally freaks out when a fag (for he was quite certainly a fag, not just gay) approaches him. It's jarring in a way, this conflict between obviously rooting for gay relationships, but not potraying them at all.

>not one mention of Jack Vance, the Dying Earth, or Lyonesse

Hugely disappointing.

>>4244239
clarke needs to write more novel-length stuff

>>4248617
thank me later faggot

>>4249490

The thing that annoys me is that they both recommend keys tot he kingdom (which is shit), instead of the old kingdom trilogy, which is by the same author, and is by far hi best work ever.

>>4243076
Memories of Ice is a good book. Deadhouse Gates was excellent.

What do you guys feel about the Riftwar Cycle by Raymond E. Feist?

Mistborn

>>4243166
Agreed, Glen Cook's Black Company is basically the grandfather of all the current dark fantasy, and well worth reading in itself.

I didn't like his Dread Empire series, but YMMV.

>>4249721
>tfw Jack Vance just died this year and will never write another book
The Dying Earth is a classic and hugely influential, although technically it's not truly fantasy


That said, I prefer his explicitly scifi stories like the Demon Princes.

Book of the New Sun.

The only argument that can be given against it is that it can be considered sci-fi instead.

>>4240900
The Bible
*tips fedora

>>4241496
I hated last few books of WoT. It was so fucking anticlimatic. And the ending was completely out of character for Rand. Not to mention notoriously shit writing.

I also hoped/expected that Seanchan would get their asses kicked, since their queen or whatever he title was, was insufferable bitch, but noo, none of that.

I hated the ending so much that I can't read any fantasy any more. I just expect it to turn to utter shit at any moment.

>>4240900

DUNE

>>4243185
this

Define 'best'.

>>4242894
Piers Anthony wrote a lot of pornography.
Read his Chromagic series, it's full of sex scenes.

>>4240900
This is the first time I've been on /lit/, it is literally everything the other boards said it was. Razor sharp fedoras and unwarranted pretensions that would make Lady Gaga blush.

OP the best fantasy series ever written is The Lord of the Rings, which is actually a series by any definition and if it isn't it merely admits all of his stories about Middle Earth. There's really nothing else to it, there's plenty of great fantasy but Tolkien funded the award ceremony, built the auditorium, and individually cast the statuettes which he then quite justifiably named 'Tolkiens'. To deny this would be like a religious scholar trying to pretend Christianity never happened.

So what does lit have against ASOIAF (Game of thrones)

I found them to be nicely written, but hey I'm just one guy. I'm curious as to why others did not like them. I always hear praise, but little criticism

>>4255838
it has no soul, it's all surface and no depth

>>4255816
Isn't it a sad indictment of the fantasy genre that tolkien is its best?

>>4257273
Not at all.

Lord of the Rings is really really good.

>>4255838
It's good, its complex, its too big right now to enjoy, because every retard thinks youre talking about the hbo adaptation.

When I first read them I was entertained but not impressed by the ideeas or really engaged with the characters, too many viewpoints.

I'm glad it's now popular though. It'll give my favorite books in the genre hope of getting movie or similar adaptations, butchered as they will be.

>>4257652
oh and I like his sci-fi stuff better, theyre just as grimdark but more inventive

>>4249705
>Also there's a bit where Hobb addresses this issue by compairing their love to something platonic (I can't remeber what exactly) which felt forced slightly.

Near the end of Fool's Fate, the Fool compares Fitz's relationship with Nighteyes to their own relationship as an example of how love doesn't have to be physically consummated.

>It's jarring in a way, this conflict between obviously rooting for gay relationships, but not potraying them at all.

I did wish for some consummation, but it's the world they live in. Hobb was acknowledging that gay people exist, but at the same time pre-modern cultures typically reject such feelings as unnatural and/or immoral. Fitz is definitely a closet bi though.

>>4243423
>Game of Thrones is a medieval setting, I'd think. I'd like something in a modern setting, particularly with some magic realism.

Look into Zelazny's Amber series

>>4257273
Nope. Tolkien was very well versed, a philologist and to top it off, he was an erudite that was not a snob. His works are reflections of them. They're beautifully crafted, with vivid imageries, rich folklore and deep histories. It's no joke to say that he was the peak because he deserves it.

>>4257671
>pre-modern cultures typically reject such feelings as unnatural and/or immoral

Never heard of Rome, Greece or Mesopotamia, have you?

>>4257831
the setting was medieval europe

>>4251837
Shit. I have to reread that.
Good series.

Any fantasy series that starts off being all magicky and mysterious but then later the plot reveals it to be the future and you get robots, spaceships and aliens and all the magic turns out to be due to technology?

>>4257859
Book of the New Sun