/lit/ - Literature

disagree. i agree with the first statement, but i don't see where the obligation for humility comes from.

>>4216284
The "ought" was intended as a practical thing, not an ethical one. I think people perceive the arrogance and that, if you want people to see what you have to say as relevant to them and not bullshit spewed by someone who considers himself "better" than them, you should attempt to express yourself in a way that doesn't require the solving of riddles or a degree in literature or art to understand.

Symbolism is fine, and deeper meaning is fine, but if there's nothing of value on the surface, most people won't bother to dig deeper.

>>4216292
>you should attempt to express yourself in a way that doesn't require the solving of riddles or a degree in literature or art to understand.

no one does that out of mere contempt for the hoi polloi, it's just that true communication is incredibly difficult, and when it comes to truly communicating something that you yourself find difficult, then the circumlocution required to at least give you a sense of it will become exponentially more impenetrable.

>if you want people to see what you have to say

concerning yourself with mass appeal is for the marketing department to worry, not artists. as long as someone, somewhere, is able to connect with your work, it's all worth it

I don't understand the point in creating art for others. Unless money is the primary concern of the artist, they should focus completely on creating the art for themselves.

If the money is the concern, then there are formulas for what sells, and the artist's voice shouldn't influence the work that much

>>4216305
The inherent difficulty of communicating these types of ideas (especially emotions) comes from a romantic view of the artist as a tortured genius developed in the 18th century when fuckwads like Kant were trying to qualify art and aesthetics for the first time. Some asshat learned the term "qualia" and ran with it.

To all who hold this view: you're not a tortured soul alone and adrift in a sea of uncertainty, you're just an asshat that refuses to let anyone close to you so that you can perpetuate this feeling of uniqueness that you mentally masturbate to daily.

>>4216356
>The inherent difficulty of communicating these types of ideas (especially emotions) comes from a romantic view of the artist [blah blah blah]

i don't know bro, it's more of a derridaist view of communication. i don't buy your uniqueness thing, anyone who considers themselves unique would have zero use for communication in the first place.

>>4216356
Jeez, good job taking all semblance of fun or nobility out of art. You're the type of person Gaddis complained about, and Gaddis talked about this is in his books more in-depth than you or I did.

In the end, all art requires some leap of faith that it is meaningful and worth it, even if rationality dictates it's not (like Tolstoy eventually concluded, that art was meaningless). But even disregarding, art is useful as an incredibly effective form of communication between two people, the reader and the author.

>>4216377
>art is useful as an incredibly effective form of communication between two people, the reader and the author.

You know what's even more effective? Actual communication. A lot of art plays off of the communication barrier between artist's intention and audience interpretation. I've found that people understand me a lot better if I just have a regular goddamn conversation with them. But if you prefer I could rewrite my posts in the form of postmodern poetry so it's easier for you to understand my point.

I have nothing wrong with art and artists. Having faith in the art, even if it is ultimately meaningless (surprise, I'm a nihilist so this puts it on the level with every other human endeavor), is not inherently wrong. The problem comes in the form of following the stereotype of tortured artists who're unable to communicate except through their art, when it's really only them keeping themselves from forming actual relationships with others because of their mindset (another surprise, inability to communicate is a self-fulfilling prophecy).

Talk to me when you actually develop schizophrenia, or have committed murder, then we can talk tortured artist with inability to communicate through normal channels.