/lit/ - Literature

>Ghost World

mah nigga

/co/ has one as a tumblr iirc
and /co/ probably has better taste

Not a guide, but off the top of my head, some stuff /lit/ would like might be:
Understanding/Writing/Reinventing Comics by Scott McCloud
Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi
Maus by Art Speigelman
Blankets/Habibi by Craig Thompson
Black Hole by Charles Burns
Love and Rockets by the Hernandez Brothers
Epileptic by David B.
Fun Home by Alison Bechdel
Pride of Baghdad by Brian K. Vaugh
Ghost World/Wilson/Like A Velvet Glove Cast In Iron by Daniel Clowes
Jimmy Corrigan, Smartest Kid On Earth by Chris Ware
Louis Riel/Paying For It by Chester Brown
A Contract With God by Wil Eisner

>graphic novels
you mean comics?

>>4198411
That's not a bad list, for a hipster sort. Personally I'm not a huge fan but those are the sort of comics someone who likes Ghost World would enjoy.

>>4198479
Guilty as charged. That being said, the stuff by McCloud should be read by anyone interested in comics.

>>4198516
Well, yes and no. They're not essential reading if you just like reading comics. I'd probably only recommend them to someone who had an interest in the creative process.
Give me a minute, I'll put together a more "pulp" essential reading list.

>>4198536
British & Pulp essential comic reading list:
The Pro
Preacher
Kill your boyfriend
Crecy
Ministry of Space
Supergod
Arkham Asylum: A serious house on a serious Earth
Neonomicon
The Tragical Comedy or Comical Tragedy of Mr. Punch
Promethea
Murder Mysteries
We3
Ruins
The Authority (inc. Kev specials)
Transmetropolitan
Uncle Sam
The Arrival
The Boys
The Filth
The Invisibles
Hellblazer
I Kill Giants
Lucifer (Starting with Sandman)
the complete works of Moebius

>>4198553
Good list, but some of it (Gaiman, Morrison, and Moore) seem more suited to a mid-tier or even entry-level "So you like comics?" list.

Also
>no Batman Year One, Dark Knight Returns, Red Son, etc.

I'd say entry-level would be:
Watchmen
Sandman
Scott Pilgrim
Walking Dead
Fables
Plaestine
Hellboy
TDKR

More as a sampler than anything else

Why are cape comics so shit?
I read some Superman comics and a few issues of other supers, but I cringed so hard the entire time.

>>4198573
Also, you could probably put the new Hawkeye comics in a mid-tier list as well.

>ctrl-F
>no metabarons
>in incal

>>4198573
I don't disagree, but wouldn't entry-level be essential reading? I should have included Hellboy and Red Son (and The Killing Joke) but I think most cape comics only appeal to some; they're the stereotypical reason most people who dismiss comics do so.

>>4198593
I meant it more as a list for people new to comics, just to give them an idea of what they might or might not like. An essentials list without Eisner or Crumb (and a shitload of other authors I can't think of at the moment) would be kind of dumb. Likewise, I like Scott Pilgrim and would definitely recommend it to someone looking to get into comics, but I wouldn't consider it "essential reading."

>>4198611
Perhaps. I don't think I'd recommend Eisner or Crumb as they're a little niche. It really depends on the tastes of the person who's asking.

>>4198623
Maybe we're defining our terms differently. When I say "essential" I'm thinking of "classic and/or extremely influential works," rather than "babby's first graphic novel."

Which, now that I type it out, sounds kind of dumb.

>>4198630
I'm not sure how much distinction there is to be made there. Watchmen is babby's first, but it's also extremely influential.

>>4198635
Yeah, but to use the examples of Crumb and Eisner, both were very influential (Adult subject matter/underground comix and non-traditional layouts, respectively), but I don't think either would be something I'd recommend to a newbie. Watchmen/TDKR are unusual in that they can be classified as both babby's first and essential.

I might be talking myself in circles, though.

>>4198654
Yeah, I don't think we're disagreeing at any real level. I see nothing essentially wrong with the stories you're recommending, we just have different tastes.

>>4198590
>no La mia vita disegnata male

Y the last man.
From Hell.

The former is must read for any /lit/izen, the latter reads very heavily like a book.

On a lighter hearted note, anya's ghost is a great easy read.

>>4198759
>Y the last man.
>is must read for any /lit/izen
Mah niggah

>>4198759
>From Hell
Seconding this. It's probably the best graphic novel ever written.

In fact, most of Alan Moore's stuff is great. Especially the entirety of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, if you have a passing knowledge of classic and contemporary literature, V for Vendetta, his run on Miracleman, Swamp Thing, and Supreme. There's also Watchmen but I think it only really works in tandem with Morrison's Flex Mentallo, if you want to get a sense of two diametrically opposed writers and their devices.

From Morrison, there's also We3, All-Star Superman, Animal Man, Seaguy, and Doom Patrol.

Then there's these:
>Punisher MAX
>Born
>Fury MAX
>Judge Dredd (The Day The Law Died, Apocalypse War, and Democracy are generally considered to be the best arcs; the standalone stuff is pretty good on its own, if you wanna get into that)
>Strontium Dog
>The Incal
>anything related to Kirby's Fourth World
>The Boys (skip any limited series because they're trash)
>Mr. A
>Denny O'Neil's run on The Question
>American Flagg
>Action Philosophers
>Crecy
>pretty much anything EC Comics published, apart from Mad
>Creepy
>Sgt. Rock

I understand I'm stretching the definition of "graphic novel" pretty thin, and I'm not as knowledgeable about the underground stuff, but these are all the decent-to-fantastic comics I can just list off the top of my head.

>>4198938
Also, Stardust the Super Wizard.

>>4198759
>>4198772
You're both jokes. Y is garbage and it's obvious they were just making it up as it went.

>lolzy, what if, heheh, what if, lololol the monkey poop makes him not die!!! ahahaahaha, oh my god, this is Gold.

>so gold! write this down!

Demand more from the shit you ingest, tards.

>>4198955
That's where you're wrong bucko, check those links again.

Are there any Superman stories where he doesn't fight Chtulu space monsters and isn't a government USACAPITALISMGOOD lackey? I've always felt like (certain) Batman stories are more interesting because he's just a highly skilled vigilante with a lot of toys trying to fight organised crime and keep law and order in a corrupt Gotham City, which brings up questions of due process, media manipulation, governmental corruption, fascism etc. Are there any Superman stories more like this?

>>4198985
A lot of the really early Superman comics were comprised of him just punching mobsters and members of the upper class in the fucking face. It wasn't until later that he started fighting monsters and jumping into Nazi-occupied France or whatever. Beyond that, there's Red Son and All-Star, both of which are still plagued in some way by that nebulous fart cloud of moralization and what have you.

Hey OP what makes the special edition of Ghost World special?

Regarding David Clowes: If you liked Ghost World you may also like David Boring. Ice Haven is interesting. Like a Velvet Glove Cast in Iron is a surreal nightmare, I enjoyed it.

Asterios Polyp is a good comic. Funny, interesting styles, and some feels.

>>4198985
Superman was originally created to be a Socialist's wet dream. Read Superman Chronicles vol 1, your mind will be opened to all the different interpretations of the character.

This is one of the better lists I've seen.

>nobody mentioned Daytripper yet

Read Daytripper.

It's great.

>Graphic novel
That is a term ised by fags to talk good about comics and still sound like a fag.

Two of the best comic book series I've ever read that sadly almost never get mentioned are Paul Chadwick's Concrete and Strangehaven by Gary Spencer Millidge.
I can't recommend them highly enough.

Concrete is sort of a existentialist tale of an ordinary guy that's kidnapped by aliens but returns as what basically amounts to Fantastic Four's The Thing, but in a universe much like ours that is free of superheroes and pulp like escapades. So it's more Elephant Man than a cape comic, and can get really philosophical at times.

Strangehaven is a beautiful, photo realistically drawn mash up of Twin Peaks and the Prisoner (sprinkled with The Darling Buds of May) that is still ongoing and has unfortunately been on a hiatus for quite a while now, but all signs point towards Gary finally returning to it soon and finishing it (if he hasn't already started).

As for cape comics fare goes, everyone should do themselves a favor and read James Robinson and Tony Harris's run on Starman.
Some of the best worldbuilding I've ever seen in the medium and it pays better and more genuine homage to DC's past than any author has managed before or since.

What does /lit/ think of Jack Kirby? Comics fans seem to either hold him up as a deity or think he's a hack, I personally believe he was a man with fantastic ideas that seriously needed an editor by his side.

>>4198570
Alan Moore's are pretty decent. That is, his works in the shittier heroes, not just Watchmen

>>4198938
>Doom Patrol
Fuck yes. Among the most /lit/ of comics as well, what with influence from Borges and Burroughs.

>>4198938
>apart from MAD
Mad was brilliant in its day.

>ctrl f
>no BPRD
come on fellas

Are the Fourth World books out of print again?

why would /lit/ have a list of comic books?

>>4199491
Is that a giant dick?

>>4199453
>Elephant Man
>Twin Peaks

I will give them a try. If you like David Lynch, you might like the comic Like a Velvet Glove Cast in Iron. It is crazy and surreal.

Good stuff so far, here are some no one has mentioned.

>Duncan the Wonder Dog
>The Nao of Brown
>I Kill Giants
>Jason Comics
>David Boring
>Batman Odyssey

>>4199619
>Odyssey
Neal Adam's Batman Odyssey?

>>4199624
Yeah, it's a Pynchonian romp through Golden Age Batman. The narrative structure is sheer madness.

Watchmen (somebody had to do it)
All-Star Superman
The Dark Knight Returns
Our Cancer Year
Runaways by Brian K. Vaughan
Spider-Man: Kraven's Last Hunt

>>4199491
It's fun pulp, as is Hellboy. But both suffer from a lack of a set direction at times, and both have become increasingly nihilistic in recent years which is a tonal shift I don't really much care for.

>>4199675
I wouldn't mind either being put on hold for an extended period of time honestly. If this meant that they'd be cancelled completely then my opinions would change but a differentiation if tone or pace, just something new in general feels like it's in order.

>>4199547
I remember not thinking highly of it when I read it years ago but to be fair, I was a bit more naive back then. Might give it another go since I remember almost nothing about it.

Anyone here a fan of Michael Zulli's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? I'm saddened a similar approach hasn't been taken with the series since, something more mature for a grown up audience in the positive sense of the word.

>>4199687
Yeah. It seems like the apocalypse has been going on for quite a while now. What begun as pulp Lovecraft seen trough a Robert E. Howard like "fuck yeah humanity" lens has since become a rinse and repeat kill 'em all.
They should either wrap things up soon or take a break from it.

>>4199619
>Batman Odyssey
What are your thoughts on Year 100?
To me it's not only a clever and heartfelt tribute to the franchise, it's also a more modern approach to it that's sadly being ignored in favor of the same old.

>>4199729
I'm not who you were asking, but I didn't really like it. I think Pope's a good artist who struggles with positioning and anatomy. Year 100 had a lot of cool ideas but it felt underdeveloped. There was so much more that could have been done with that world

>>4199758
>There was so much more that could have been done with that world
Exactly. It feels more like a demo for something that could and should be than just a simple homage. Hence my dissatisfaction that no artist or writer so far has decided to steal from it or build on it.

>>4199729
Great art, kinda weak story IMO

>>4199458
Eh, what I've read of his work hasn't been that impressive, or at least not enough to justify the deification he gets from a lot of comics fans.

>>4198460
not even trying/10

>>4200059
Will Eisner (who coined graphic novel) admitted he only used the term so he could get respect from the art community of the day and preferred the term comic.

>>4200069
>implying the origin of the word somehow has complete control over decades of subsequent meaning in the genre

>>4200096
>the genre
Yeah, you don't know what you're even talking about. It's a medium genius.

>>4200103
Touche on my word choice. My point is still correct.

>>4200107
Your point isn't correct though. There are plenty of single issue published comics which are never collected and never put in what would be considered a graphic novel, neither are most newspaper comics. Graphic novels and comics are related to each other in the sense that epics and literature are. Both terms have overlapping meanings and one is included within the other but they are not direct synonyms.

>>4199458
Perhaps the only comic book author working at the time that could be catheterized with the New Wave science fiction movement.
He was definitely more of an ideas guy than a serious writer though, but who could blame him with artwork that great during a time where quantity mattered more than quality in comics.

Pic related is from one of his more psychedelic and juvenile, yet entertaining works.

>>4200188
Oh, I've read all of his works, I know what his works are like, I was just wondering of /lit/'s thoughts on the subject matter.

I think that the Fourth World's overall plot was one of the best comic stories ever told, even if it was unfinished and needed a bundle of editing.