/lit/ - Literature

most of those are cliches and should be avoided anyway. tumblr is fucking retarded though

>>4119508

It's a blog that focuses on diversity and writing, while professing a love for fantasy novels.

>Wow this is so bad, I can't believe it!

No shit.

I like this article so far. Reading further...
>It should be fucking titled how to make your writing as bland and boring as fuck.
I disagree with you.
I do see these things as very bad pitfalls.

>>4119513
I think the justification to some of the rules are oversensitive drivel, but they are without a doubt cliches to be avoided.

>>4119508
I dislike tumblr social justice as much as the next guy, but wow.

I really want to see a sample of your writing if it's truly that reliant on stereotypes and cliches.

>Reading a blogposts by some feminazi unironically.

>>4119508
>in spite of xir disability
>who finds xirself
>xir

What the fuck.

>>4119508
Most of these points actually make sense though.

>>4119520
>using the term "feminazi" unironically

go to bed rush limbaugh

>>4119518
lol I don't fucking write shit.
I agree a lot of them are shitty cliches but to call them offensive is just retarded.
anyway cliches are fine in moderation imo.

That writer is racist as fuck.

>>4119524
some of them sort of do if you take away their twisted logic but some of them are just truly baffling.

>>4119508
>Native Americans aren't born with a magical connection to Mother Earth

Shut your fucking whore mouth, yeah we are.

>>4119529
Which ones do you have a problem with?

>>4119523
It's 'gender neutral'

>tumblr
>feminism
>how to write fiction
>mfw

>>4119531
There's already two gender neutral versions of his/her: their and one.

There's no need to make up alien words with the letter x to distinguish gender neutrality-- unless you're stupid.

>>4119508
The title should have been "everything offends me and I'm always right".

>xe

Stopped reading, closed the window, restarted my browser to make this comment, deleted my browser's history, deleted my browser, whiped my hard drive, drove over my computer, smashed the microwave and turned it on with my head near it to induce amnesia, gave myself an enema, jumped under a train.

>>4119543
stop samefagging

>>4119549
you stop browsing tumblr

Okay, it trails off a bit at the end. But except for that - which of these are you really going to fucking defend? Which of these is essential to good writing?

Set aside the politics of it for a second, most of the shit that's there is just bad fucking writing. You disagree with her political stances, but let's not blow that up into anything it's not. Seriously, you're really going to defend giving a white character a weird-ass ethnic name to make them seem special, or using undifferentiated cliches when making your characters, or what? What are all these things that you want to do that this piece is saying you shouldn't do? If you really want to write a piece that looks like the thing she's talking about, you're probably a really fucking awful writer.

Just fucking substitute "shitty" instead of "offensive" and move on. Or better yet, don't read dumbass tumblrs for the purpose of getting yourself all worked up, you dumb motherfucker.

>>4119508
>Seeing a post on tumblr
>It's stupid as fuck
pick both

>>4119557
You're right anon. I overreacted a lot of these are just shitty writing but I still think their reasoning is off. Either way you've made me calm down and see sense so thanks. Threads over. I will delete it in a few.

>>4119549
do you even know what that word means? you're the same shithead that posts this in every other thread and has no idea what samefagging is.

>>4119572
Now this, this post is funny.

>>4119508
What's all this "xir" and "xe" shit that I'm reading?

>>4119577
It's an attempt at a gender neutral pronoun. Instead of using "he" and/or "she", which are obviously gendered, or "they" which is (arguably) grammatically inaccurate, it's an attempt to just make a new word.

>>4119577
It's a gender-neutral pronoun/possessive that was invented recently. Basically, it's used by politically-correct people who want to avoid being biased for a certain gender but somehow don't know that "they" can be used in this manner.

>>4119579
If they used 'they' (lel) it wouldn't be as poignant.

It's like 'look at me, I'm egalitarian'

>>4119579
>>4119582
I don't think "they" is a totally elegant solution to the issue either, though. I don't think there is an elegant solution. English is just kind of not great at doing this.

>>4119578
>>4119579
That's ridiculous. Please tell me that this isn't catching on.

>>4119585
No.

These kinds of things never catch on, because it's really hard to fuck with language.

>>4119584
It's better than the xir bullshit.

>>4119584
"They" is the correct solution, though. It's recorded as a gender-neutral singular pronoun from like the 1600s on.

>>4119587
I agree, I agree, I'm just saying, the impulse of being unsatisfied with 'they' as a gender-neutral singular pronoun is one that I think is reasonable.

>>4119588
It's still fucking inelegant. However long it's been attested for, it's still going to be inelegant. "They" is fundamentally the plural pronoun and using it as the singular pronoun is a kludge.

>>4119586
At least there is some comfort in these troubling times where fat emo girls writing shitty poems about menstruation is considered beautiful. Where I (the single white 23 year old) can't write write anything because its so sexist and racist and I'm an oppressor.

>>4119591
Oh, shut the fuck up, and just stop going on tumblr. If you can write, no one gives a shit. Stop blaming people for your own problems.

Isn't "olive" used to describe white Mediterranean individuals way more than "chocolate" is used seriously to describe those of African descent?

>>4119508

>Openly admitting to being a social justice blogger

I don't think I've been able to discredit someone that quickly. Fantastic.

>>4119508
It sounds like this person really really hates to kill a mockingbird

>>4119594
Yeah, but that's different, because Mediterranean people eat olives all the time.

Fucking olive-eaters.

>>4119596
it sounds more like this person hates attempts to create self-published versions of To Kill A Mockingbird set in generic fantasy worlds with female protagonists and RPG-party character dynamics. that's what most of her points and her criticism and especially her language is really applicable to (note especially the TV Tropes language, talking about the "aesop"). she's talking about shitty original fiction and nanowrimo novels. honest to god.

>>4119597
So the solution is to give black people chocolate.

It's not all bad, but I agree with OP that some of it is a little off.

>The problem is that food-colored skin is a phenomenon mostly limited to dark-colored complexions.
This just isn't true. All too often do I see writers refer to white skin as "cream-colored" or similar, food-related similes. It's just an easy way to create visual imagery. It's a little bit of a cheap tactic, but it certainly has nothing to do with racism.

>Written accents are offensive because they essentially tell the group whose accent is being written that “your way of talking is weird; my way is normal.”
Again, bad cliche, wrong justification. Most of the time an overdrawn accent is used not to be offensive, but to show a character's difficulty of adjusting to unfamiliarity. They're not necessary by any means, but calling them out as offensive is the wrong way to get them to go away.

>there’s really nothing more shallow or superficial than trying to make your character stand out by giving xir an “exotic” name instead of giving xir a memorable personality and story.
Barring the author's horrible unnecessary use of "xir" in place of "them", this is just stupid. I've yet to see anyone appropriate just a name from a culture without explaining the reason for it through backstory. She's getting mad at something which is a non-issue when worthwhile fiction is discussed.

>The second type is the character who has amazing skills or abilities because or in spite of xir disability.
This bitch is hatin' on Daredevil. That's not cool.

>And whatever you do,NEVER give your character a mental illness just to make xir more “interesting,” because that’s ableism.
So what's a valid reason to give a character a disability? Should we just avoid giving them any distinguishing features/flaws at all and let them all be cardboard cutouts?

>Asking a woman why she’s still single if she’s so attractive.
And doing the same to men is okay? This isn't even about writing anymore, fuck this.

>>4119605
>implying most cocoa isn't grown by black people

>>4119508
>People can not have accents because it's offensive.
O perfect world, where everybody uses complex words and rhymes with perfect accent!!

or a dystopian universe where people who don't speak fluently are murdered

>>4119620

And they're too poor to actually eat it.

It's a fact that delightfully illustrates the state of our world.

>>4119590
But when referring to a hypothetical person, what's the problem? A person can only exist in the particular, a non-specified person is not a person at all, hence there is no problem in referring to them as "they."

God, I am so sick of reading about how someone has "olive-colored skin".

Seriously, STOP WRITING ABOUT OLIVE COLORED SKIN! ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OLIVES ARE GREEN!

On another note...the plant-loving Japanese? Seriously, that's a stereotype? I've never heard of it. I know of a lot of Japanese stereotypes, but "loves to garden" isn't one of them, because the stereotypical japanese person is supposed to live in a tiny apartment in a major metropolis where there are no garden plots.

>>4119766
>all olives are green.

I think using stereotypes is ok. Abusing stereotypes, on the other hand...

I'd just like to take the opportunity to defend Jake Sully from Avatar, as he's not really an example of Mighty Whitey, or at least he's a very strange example.

See, for all that he's the protagonist of the movie, HE DOESN'T ACTUALLY SAVE THE CATPEOPLE FROM THE MEAN HUMANS. His one contribution is that he acts as a beacon for the natives to rally around, but once the actual fight starts, his tactics get a lot of them killed, and the day is ultimately saved by his native girlfriend, who kills the main badguy that Jake is unable to defeat, and by the native nature-hivemind, which destroys the human army.

>>4119766
>implying olives don't turn black when they are ripe

>>4119770
Sure, not all olives are green, but saying "olive-colored", besides being a massively overused cliche, is sort of like describing someone as having "apple-colored" hair when you're trying to say "yellow".

Well fuck you! Apple colored hair might be red or green, for all I know!

>>4119774
But people don't mean "black" when they talk about olive colored skin. They mean vaguely south European.

>self righteous
>bossy

sounds like someone needs to check xer privilege. These dumb cunts are so arrogant they think they know everything.

>>4119775
>Describe your character's apple colored hair.
>Blonde, red, brown or green
MAXIMUM TROLLING!

>>4119775
What if you were to say, 'Her eyes were golden delicious'? Or, 'His cheeks turned a granny smith hue as he blushed' ?

>>4119819
His cheeks turned green? Perhaps you could say 'he turned granny smith with envy'.

>"He had intelligent eyes"

Most repeated cliché ever.

>>4119594
I've never seen chocolate used to describe a black person outside of literotica.com

>>4119584
I wish english was a gendered language like italian, french or german.

So they could argue that the fact that there are multiple chairs(feminine) and only one table(masculine) is a clear case of the patriarchy.

>Also, check out this handy-dandy list of links to privilege checklists so you can check your own privilege before writing off into the sunset.

Oh wow. I thought these people were just a /pol/ myth

>Books and bondage, Misandry&Dragons

humor is fundamentally a reaction to stress.


ergo, you will never find a funny progressive.

>>4119745
"This typically happens because the writer is white and subconsciously thinks of [their] own skin color as the default and everyone else’s as the outliers"

In here you're still talking about an hypothetical in singular while referring to its possessive in plural. It's inelegant as other anon says and even when it's hypothetical you do know the number of it

>>4119766
implying they don't come in a variety of tones. check your olive privilege

>>4119777
I don't know man... When I call someone olive-skinned I'm trying to subtly call them niggers

>>4119834
what about if you said "he had intelligent eyes but was dumb as fuck". they always turn out to be smart when they have "intelligent eyes" right?

>>4119900
>literotica.com
my nigger

>ugh really when someone tells me “you can’t do X without being offensive” I remember when my father told me ” if you speak you’re going to be offensive!”

>wow great, dad, really, that’s why I don’t speak with anyone and I live in a dark corner that’s why I haven’t been speaking with you all day

--- embersalamander

>Skin Color Only Described When Not White
But that makes perfect sense, if the story mainly involves white people. Just like pointing out that someone's bald makes sense if most of the characters aren't. Or pointing out that someone's an elf if most of the characters are orcs. Or pointing out that a rose is white if all the other ones are red. That's just how language works. You can't just point out all the "normal" things in a setting, as that would get tired fast.

Of course, if the story mainly has black characters, it would be very odd to keep pointing out that they're black, but it doesn't seem that what xe's talking about.

>Anonymous asked: "There is no way to win and keep your writing interesting. Have you ever read a fucking book in your life because I don't think I've read a single one that hasn't included at least one of these things."

Alright. Who was it?

>>4120000
my fucking god...
>So your conclusion is:
>Unless you’re offensive you can’t be creative.
>Wow, you must be such an asshole, really. I’m sorry for assuming this about you, but that’s what you’re telling me.
>I’m writing a story like this. With an asexual female PoC main character, her disabled pansexual sister, a FtM trans warrior, dragons, magic, political intrigue. While being careful not be offensive to any real life group outside of my fantasy world.
>Avatar was not offensive, are you telling me Avatar was not interesting, really?
>I have read books without these things, and the ones I’ve read, I’ve criticized and I’ve complained about.
>And if there wasn’t a single book in the world without these fucking tropes, don’t you think it’s fucking time to change that? uvu
>but no, unless we hate in some oppressed group we’re being uncreative and boring uvu
>that’s quite a bigoted point of view you have there pal uvu

>>4119999
good to know that white people are the only normal things in a setting. not problematic at all

>>4120006
I addressed that point, as you'll see if you read through the post again. A story where black people are the norm will obviously not point out that they're black, a story where Asian people are the norm will not point out that everybody's Asian, etc.

>>4119924
http://nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf

such horse shit, half the first twenty are incorrect and the rest are "yes I do live in a European country. Most people here are white".

>>4120005
>Wow, you must be such an asshole


why is she simultaneously so concerned about offending people while calling people assholes?

>>4120067
Are you really this dense?

>>4120067
and while saying she hates when someone tells her "you can't say X because you'll offend someone". This people don't really have any self-awareness

>>4120071
if i was sensitive about people's feelings getting hurt i wouldn't start calling them fuckfaces

Stopped reading pretty soon.

I rarely if ever see any of the shit this retard is talking about

>>4120011

This. You don't see books like The Color Purple constantly pointing out how black everyone is.

Forgive me for the high school example, it was all I could come up with.

>>4120106
>it was all I could come up with.


Michael Jordan's biography

>The Mighty Whitey is a white person (if not physically, then culturally)
>if not physically, then culturally

What is this garbage?

>>4119508
>http://embersalamander.tumblr.com/post/50154370885/offensive-mistakes-well-intentioned-writers-make

>(My name is Salomé, but you can call me Salo, or Ember or whatever you want)
I like fantasy literature, videogames, Roleplaying Games (especially Vampire the Masquerade and Pathfinder), and right now too many things to mention here. Just take a stroll through my blog and have a look!
Yes, I'm a Social Justice Blogger too and a Feminist. I'm really angry about lots of things. If you can't stand that the unfollow button is on the top right.
DON'T FOLLOW IF YOU CAN'T STAND BDSM OR AGE-PLAY RELATED IMAGES IN YOUR DASHBOARD.
WARNING: THIS IS A NSFW BLOG.


You expected this to be good advice?
Also most of this stuff will come naturally to any writer worth their stuff. No sterotypes? Hackneyed description (food color skin?) Non-nuanced portrayal of character? Why do we need to turn this all into muh bigotry? Because the author wants to be perceived as a justice crusader, not an artist.

>>4120117
wtf?! he's black? why didn't they mention it in the biography?

>misandry

didn't read

>>4120118
>What is this garbage?
welcome to the world of color politics

>>4119508
>because the writer is white and subconsciously thinks of xir own skin color
>xir

>DON'T FOLLOW IF YOU CAN'T STAND BDSM OR AGE-PLAY RELATED IMAGES IN YOUR DASHBOARD.
>AGE PLAY

Social-Justice, a feminist AND a pedophile.
Tumblr is a truly horrifying place.

>>4120165
seriously, at least the racist misogynistic pedophiles here don't pretend they arne't creepy weirdos

>>4120172
Please.
Nobody here is going to fuck a ten year old, call him Xir, and say it's their right as a vagina and you don't think it's a good thing for them to do only because they're really black on the inside and you're just a racist, check your privilege.

Man, there's this video, it's hilarious.
it's one of those "WHAT WOULD YOU DO?" where they hire this actor to yell at a transsexual in a diner. There are these two fat fuck tumblr chicks in the corner, glaring at the guy, but don't do anything. Then this dude comes up and tells the guy to fuck off and leave the poor tranny alone. The two tumblrettes looked so fucking stunned I started laughing. Fucking whores.

I don't know where I was going with that.