/lit/ - Literature

>wahh feminazis and fags are ruining the world
>wut about muh straight white male identity

>>4102240
>hurrrrrrrr muh angry white male durrrrrrrrrrrrr
Do you realize how pathetic you sound?

>>4102316
being an angry white male on 4chan is undoubtedly more pathetic, at least LGBT people are born marginalized
Stirner's work influenced early feminists, at least, so maybe

>>4102322
...you don't get it, do you? Screaming "angry white male" like a retard serves fewer purposes than to terminate the discussion.

>>4102322
>angry white male
>at least LGBT people are born marginalized

HAHAHA
do you have a straight face when you type this shit?

>>4102231

From what I've read of Stirner, I think he'd cringe at identity politics because its advocates tend to conceive of themselves in terms of how many minority groups they belong to, rather than existing as creative nothings.

There are some out there that pursue the Foucauldian project of inventing new ways of being, but they seem few and far between the pre-fab LGBBQ crowd, to me.

>>4102341
yea bro, it's like the only safe place I have is the internet, I can't even walk down the street without being harassed for my delicate lily-white skin
I still remember when my parents kicked me out for being a straight white male, shit hurts

>>4102329
I wasn't the one who said it but "identity politics" is a loaded term itself

>>4102345
>advocates tend to conceive of themselves in terms of how many minority groups they belong to
nope.

>>4102352
>yea bro, it's like the only safe place I have is the internet, I can't even walk down the street without being harassed for my delicate lily-white skin
>I still remember when my parents kicked me out for being a straight white male, shit hurts
hahahaha oh my god
so how is your undergrad work going?

>>4102316
>but muh non-essentialisms. I am a special white snowflake. racism and homophiba dunn exist ergo identity politics are useless other than for tumblrnazis and otherkins

Identity politics were created by the CIA to distract from real issues like class struggle, and to divide the left into neat little demographics well-intregrated into the capitalist process.

>>4102364
Here's a hint.

I'm Pakistani. U mad?

>>4102231
Stirner would be overjoyed with women and fags and what not doing as they want, not letting themselves be limited by the values of the surrounding society.

Then he would be disappointed to see this act of liberation evolve into a new system with a new ideology and a movement. He would mock them like he mocked the humanists, since after freeing themselves from God they happily chain themselves to Humanity.

Once you submit yourself to a movement and the cause of an -ism, you're trapped again. Once you start to identify yourself with identity politics, you lose your identity. You're a servant again. Suck dicks, but don't be a dicksuckist.

>>4102364
You know that non-whites think that you are even more pathetic than your fellow whites, right?

>>4102364
You know that non-whites think that you are even more pathetic than your fellow whites do, right?

Cringe at their identity politics, since Stirnerian egoism is about the unique individual rather than a universalized queer or woman identity.

His critique of humanism can be read as a critique of identity politics.

>>4102375

This, except it probably wasn't the CIA.

>>4102360
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/lgbt/news/2010/06/21/7980/gay-and-transgender-youth-homelessness-by-the-numbers/
you can just be a fag and say they deserve it or something I guess

>>4102430

Depends. My clock says it's 6:20 pm in London. What are you doing on 4chan?

>>4102475
i can't even discern what point you're trying to make here

>>4102467
got your tin foil hats, kiddos?

>>4102505
Pakistanis don't live in America?

>>4102467
Yeah the capital minds itself and tends to its own wounds better than some CIA tub ever could, and vanity politics will go a long way in sating peoples desire for capital catering

plus CIA tends to oppress directly national threats rather than promote identity for people in the system (see those crazy fake Black Panther newspapers)

>>4102550
That was the FBI, not the CIA.

>>4102534
claiming a lack of understanding is itself a position of privilege

>>4102586

i-is this satire? I honestly can't tell anymore.

>>4102322
>LGBT people are born marginalized

>>4102435
>don't be a dicksuckist
words to live by

>>4102595
Does it really matter? There's people who actually think that it's a privilege to not be handicapped.

>>4102538
pakis live in shit

>>4103246
the privilege thing is just a check to make sure you don't say insensitive shit to people who can't really help the way they are

>>4103881
they're not really celebrated by society at all

>>4103872
if that were the case, derogatory size queens wouldn't be celebrated.

>>4103867
Pic related, it's northern Pakistan

>>4103881
also i have no idea how that relates to what i said

>>4103888
What breathtaking scenery!

>>4102240
>>4102364
>trying to belittle ones argument through extreme exaggeration while claiming absolute victory in your beliefs for which you have yet to explain (but I'm sure it's all just "so obvious" that no explanation is needed), all wraped in an emotionalized tumblr like rhetoric.

minority gay here. Go fuck yourself.

>>4104341
>minority gay here

>>4104341
all dat self loathing faggotry

Stirner is someone I've never read about, never mind reading his books.
If his writing is accessible (not-hegel) what books should I read if I want to get introduced to his ideas?

>>4103872
No, it's a debased version of calvinist thinking. If I happen to meet a person confined to a wheelchair I know that walking and running is not an option for that person and just not mention the issue.

But still, being able to walk is not a privilege.

>>4102586
>straight people are privileged because there are disproportionately more homeless fags than straight people
>men are privileged even though there are disproportionately more homeless men than women
Feminism today is the world's most privileged demographic feeling immense self-pity and men humoring them because they want sex.

>>4105138
The Ego and Its Own and then Stirner's Critics.

>>4102435
This is the answer i have been searching for all my life

>>4102240
>wut about muh straight white male identity

That's the thing though. Straight white males don't have the straight white male identity. Straight white males are free to have any identity they please - husband, father, statesman, doctor, countryman, soldier, musician, mathematician, lover, poet, orator, priest, etc.
Straight white males don't have the straight white male identity, it's non-(straight white males) that view them as that.
It's gays (not all of them) that form their identity on being gay.
It's women (not all of them, mainly feminists) that form their identity on being women.
It's black (not all of them) that form their identity on being blacks.

Straight white males are free to have a positive identity. I guess that's what all the non-(straight white male)s are calling "privilege", but you know what? You don't gain anything by robbing us of that privilege. All you are doing is spiting us. You don't become any less fanatical and discontent by trying to spread fanaticism and discontent among straight white males.

Stop being envious little shits and grow up.

Like Themistocles said to some Persian or other non-Greek nationality, when he said, "you wouldn't be famous if you hadn't been born a Greek", Themistocles replied, "yes, but if you had been born a Greek and I born a Persian, then neither of us would have achieved fame".

>>4102435
This is more or less why Stirner's philosophy is absolute nonsense.

Feminist and LGBT is maximum overspook.

>>4107477
Thanks.

>>4107502
>Straight white males don't have the straight white male identity.
ah to be this oblivious and stupid. just because something is normative doesn't mean it doesn't exist you stupid cracka

>>4107502

10/10.

>>4102352
This guy is hilarious.

>>4107506
Eh... Care to explain why? It looks pretty obvious to me, and I'm not exactly a genius.

Anyone else G and wish T would fuck off and manage its own shit?

Wtf does sexuality have to do with gender identification and mental disorders? If you even imply transgenderism is inherently related to homosexuality, they yell at you that it's a totally separate thing.

Plus they're fucking insane and have turned the movement into even more of a feminist lesbian orgyporgy.

>>4107502
but no one is trying to "rob you" of your privilege. Feminists and the like just simply don't want privilege to exist.

>>4107825
So the levelling of European man?

>>4102231
I think he would be mortified at how both movements have become sweeping paradigms that coerce MULTIPLE minority groups to submit to SINGLE ideologies, and how these movements have become consumer products through pop culture and for-profit magazines (see: Gawker).

Fortunately, we are entering/have entered the age of post-globalism, where demographics all across the board have been beaten into the ground through massive economic disparity. And when everyone is united by weariness at the price of bread and rent, identity politics start tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down...

>>4107506
Why?

>>4107825
>they're not trying to take away your car, they want to destroy all cars in the world

>>4107995
privilege doesn't really provide anything valuable though. why shouldn't it be dismantled when it's a direct byproduct of institutional oppression?

>>4107995
your usage of car presupposes
1. a car is commodity that has to be acquired with money or through criminal activity
2. if the car is acquired with money then that presupposes a non-criminal activity that would allow you to earn the money required to buy the car, that being a job
3. a job implies a form of work, which is one of the foundational values of a consumerist society (aside from, you know, consumption)
5. possessive pronoun implies a sense of belonging, something thought to be unique to an individual. that implies that the value of work settles the moral ground for being able to differentiate from the masses by the means of economical power.
6. the distribution of capital tends to be arbitrary and unequal, so by legitimizing the importance of economical power you're legitimizing the system of distribution, and thus the de facto establishment.
7. therefore, you imply that a commodity is an "everyday need" (whereas it has been marketed as a everyday need and has forced to create conditions which seem to justify this posture bt transforming the urban space or the dynamics of the work places) and questioning that idea means a violent attack on the structure of everyday life.

>>4107476
>Feminism today is the world's most privileged demographic feeling immense self-pity and men humoring them because they want sex.
>>>/reddit/

>>4107893
>sweeping paradigms that coerce MULTIPLE minority groups to submit to SINGLE ideologies
This is the main problem one can find in our society from a moral egoist perspective. All our contemporary leftish ideologies seem to be born from what was a spontaneous movement of recognition (in hegelian terms) towards the differences between different parts of our society, but ended up decaying into the same unifying tendency we can find in the general ideology of the society they started standing against to.

>And when everyone is united by weariness at the price of bread and rent
Well, this somehow seems to imply some kind of class conscience... I'd say you are overestimating "everyone" as a whole.

>>4102231
Max Stirner wouldn't feel joy because it is a spook.

>>4108020
Ok, it was hyperbole, I admit, but I felt it had to be said, because feminists say shit like that all the time and go completely unchallenged.

The point is that statistically, there are at least as many ways in which you can describe woman as having it better than men as you can describe men as having it better than women, but this seems to be almost an irrelevant to feminism's notion of privilege and gender. Or if you point it out to them they'll just claim that ever disparity that affects men is the product of "the patriarchy" (even though they never would discuss these issues if not prompted by people who disagree with them), and so the only logical choice is to support them regardless.

The fact that feminism can make a point of talking about "violence against women" as a serious issue that needs to be addressed in a culture where men are 6 times more likely to be murdered than women ought to tell you something. Imagine if there was a movement devoted to fighting "poverty against whites" that was treated with the utmost respect in social discourse, because that's the racial equivalent of what feminism is doing.

>nihilist egoist personal anarchist who advocates breaking the law and whatever sort of social morality you want when you can get away with it
>giving a shit about feminism or lack thereof

Pick one

>>4109499
>overly simplified view of Stirner
>having read him

Pick one

>>4108158
>The point is that statistically, there are at least as many ways in which you can describe woman as having it better than men as you can describe men as having it better than women
list ten of each

Why do you think men are murdered? What is it about their maleness that causes this disparity? Who murders them?

>>4108158
>feminism can make a point of talking about "violence against women" as a serious issue that needs to be addressed in a culture where men are 6 times more likely to be murdered than women ought to tell you something
The point is made because women are murdered for being women, whereas men are murdered for various reasons. It's different, and pointing the statistics out without giving any context is misleading.

And the fact that you think feminist circles don't discuss the many cases in which men have it worse makes me think that you're just observing from afar.

>>4107440
>But still, being able to walk is not a privilege.
What do you call having access to places that aren't wheelchair-accessible? You seem to have internalized some notion that privileges are inherently bad.

>>4110200
does my wife's whining and bitching, hence shortening my life at least 10 year (yes, that much, I swear) count as murder?

third wave feminism is an elaborate capitalism apologia

let it burn

>>4110310
>class is more important than gender, lgbt rights is CIA incognito, they aren't worrying about rill problems

>>4110200
>list ten of each
Beggars can't be choosers, so have four disparities that harm men instead:

>A new study by Sonja Starr, an assistant law professor at the University of Michigan, found that men are given much higher sentences than women convicted of the same crimes in federal court.
>The study found that men receive sentences that are 63 percent higher, on average, than their female counterparts.
>Starr also found that females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html

>Males were nearly 4 times more likely than females to be murdered in 2008
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

>Men accounted for 63.7 percent of the adults who used emergency shelters or transitional housing over a 12-month period.
http://humanneeds.vcu.edu/Page.aspx?nav=29&scope=0&source=13

>Men accounted for 92% of workplace fatalities in 2012
http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0011.pdf

>>4110329
>>class is more important than gender

Uh, yeah. Anyone who disputes that is an utter moron.

Of course, most feminists are comfortably middle-class at worst so it's not in their advantage to be class conscious.

>>4110208
>The point is made because women are murdered for being women, whereas men are murdered for various reasons. It's different, and pointing the statistics out without giving any context is misleading.
MUH VICTIMHOOD. And every time a white guy is murdered, it's for his whiteness, whereas black people get killed for various reasons.

>And the fact that you think feminist circles don't discuss the many cases in which men have it worse makes me think that you're just observing from afar.
Sarcastic condescension like "What about teh menz?" doesn't count.

>>4107502
>That's the thing though. Straight white males don't have the straight white male identity. Straight white males are free to have any identity they please - husband, father, statesman, doctor, countryman, soldier, musician, mathematician, lover, poet, orator, priest, etc.

>Men do different things, therefore they are not playing a role dictated society
>When non-white men and white women do different things, that doesn't count because they are playing a role dictated by society

>yfw feminism is bored white women trying to blame their lacking the will necessary for self-definition on men just as a rebellious teenage blames her parents for ruining her life

>>4110208
>The point is made because women are murdered for being women, whereas men are murdered for various reasons. It's different, and pointing the statistics out without giving any context is misleading.
Men are still being murdered, you idiot. You can't wave away that fact.

Imagine if someone were to say something like this: "It's impossible to blame the sky-high black incarceration rate on racism. Black people are incarcerated for real reasons, such as doing drugs or killing people, both of which they are more apt to do. The lack of a black presence in higher education also stems from the choice of the blacks to do crimes and take drugs than study. In fact, most universities give heavily prefer black applicants, even if they have lesser test scores, grades, and extracurricular activities."

That's what you're doing.

>this thread

>>4110866
Which society? Or are we taking the view of the world that feminists so distain, which is Judeo-christain American ethnocentrism?

>>4110874
I have no idea what you are saying. Your example doesn't make sense and I'm not sure what it is trying to prove.

>>4110874
First and foremost, your example makes no sense whatsoever. Second, high rate of black incarceration does come from racism if you go look deep into it because, contrary to what your average 4channer would say, black people do not have a magical gene that make them steal, do and deal drugs and other crimes and stay away from education.

>men are still being murdered!!
But it is absolutely NOT gender-related. Men are murdered by other men because men are more involved in crime and other shit.

See, imagine a black guy being murdered because he is a drug dealer. That's the "men being killed" part.
Now imagine a black guy being murdered because he's a black guy (or any other thing or assumption connected intrinsically to his being black). That's women being murdered.

Or are you going to blame the fact that more men are incarcerated on misandry and the fact that we live in a matriarchal society? Because if you do there is no salvation for your soul.

>>4110858
>MUH VICTIMHOOD
>MEN ARE BEING KILLED MORE
>B-BUT ITS A FACT THEREFORE ITS NOT VICTIMHOOD
>WE'RE ~REAL~ VICTIMS

Puh-lease.
Also, yeah, I was not talking about jokes about men who think they have it bad. There are some real concerns about men. The fact that you insist on your uneducated opinion leads me to believe that 1- you have never talked to a real, actually female feminist (observing males such as myself do not count) and 2- you have zero critical sense and let yourself get carried away by either the opinion of your peers or by your shallow, misogynistic emotions. Either way, you are dumb and you have no place in /lit/ and you're probably one of the stupid pretentious assholes who only read good books to feel superior towards other people.

Please leave at once.

>>4110946
It's pretty obvious. You're trying to claim that people who are on the losing end of a disparity are really the ones who are better off, and it makes you sound like a tool.

>>4111007
>Or are you going to blame the fact that more men are incarcerated on misandry and the fact that we live in a matriarchal society? Because if you do there is no salvation for your soul.
see >>4110847, men receive higher prison sentences for the same crimes than women do, and are more likely to face charges when they're arrested for the same crime as a woman. That might have something to do with the higher male incarceration rate.

>>4111007
>citing facts is a victimhood complex
>baseless claims that women are murdered because MUH MISOGYNY isn't

>>4110208
>The point is made because women are murdered for being women, whereas men are murdered for various reasons. It's different, and pointing the statistics out without giving any context is misleading.
Except that men are, statistically, the target of genocide most of the time solely on the basis of being a male.

>>4111007
>But it is absolutely NOT gender-related. Men are murdered by other men because men are more involved in crime and other shit.
>See, imagine a black guy being murdered because he is a drug dealer. That's the "men being killed" part.
Now imagine a black guy being murdered because he's a black guy (or any other thing or assumption connected intrinsically to his being black). That's women being murdered.
>2013
>being this certain of causation
Go read some Hume or Popper.

"you are more than a male, but you are also a male; but humanity and masculinity do not express you exhaustively, and you can therefore be indifferent to everything that is held up to you as ‘true humanity’ or ‘true masculinity.’"

Identity politics confirmed for spooks.

>>4113448
Spooks confirmed for spooks.

>>4111574
lol

>>4111007
>But it is absolutely NOT gender-related. Men are murdered by other men because men are more involved in crime and other shit.
>See, imagine a black guy being murdered because he is a drug dealer. That's the "men being killed" part.
>Now imagine a black guy being murdered because he's a black guy (or any other thing or assumption connected intrinsically to his being black). That's women being murdered.

>implying men aren't drug dealers because of gender roles they are made to perform

It's exactly the same mechanism as any oppression of women due to gender roles. If you assume that if women suffer from the results of inhabiting specifically female identities in our society and fight this suffering as an injustice, you logically have to grant men suffering from the results of inhabiting specifically male identities in our society the same treatment. Otherwise you are a bigot and/or retard.

>>4113462
oh wow. really? how about making any sort of point?

>>4113477
That was a point. Stirner was an irrational that considered reason a spook. Everything being a spook was just a spook of Stirners imagination. He's like Ted Bundy without the charm.

>>4113497
>can't grasp the maximator

You're not fooling anyone, wikipedia skimmer.

>>4113522
He's Ayn Rand without the moral compass, his philosophy is rationalized barbarism.

>>4113538
Not even close. Try reading him.

>>4113553
It's Might Makes Right, the worldview of tyrants and an idea much older than Stirner. He was just an apologist for slavers, as were his intellectual heirs like Benjamin Tucker.

>>4102475
and 95%ish percent of the homeless are MALE. But you don't point that out because it doesn't fit with your neat little narrative.

>>4102505
he's probably a Paki in England.

>>4113587
yes. LGBT youth getting kicked out of or fleeing their homes is totally comparable to a contextless statistic.

>>4107440
it is a privilege, but so many people have it that having it doesn't make you much more priviliged than average.

The "privileged" discourse is the single biggest example of intellectual sloth and dishonesty there is.

>>4113655
oooh boy, someone hasn't kekked their privs today, here, i'll do it:

intelligence priv: check
not a bore priv: check
white: check
privileged: check
can spell correctly: check
straight: check

well well well, my priv-o-meter indicates that you are 'privileged as fuck', and should immediately start flagellating yourself. also, check you dual dubs priv, pooplord.

>>4107995
It's more like you have a car and they want cars too.

>>4110208
>Women are being murdered for being women
Uhh...

>>4113706
What, you've never seen a woman and just wanted to go murder her because she's a woman?

What kind of man are you?

>>4113581
Stirner is completely different form Redbeard apart from their disregard for common morality.

Really. Try reading him.

Feminism is absolutely necessary in less-developed countries, though.

>>4110208
he could have picked other examples other than murder. Respond to the rest of the post as well.

>>4113734
“Their unspirituality sets Jews forever apart from Christians; for the spiritual man is incomprehensible to the unspiritual, as the unspiritual is contemptible to the spiritual. But the Jews have only "the spirit of this world.”

Excerpt From: Stirner, Max. “The Ego and His Own.”

>>4113736
However, in India some gets it totally wrong by saying that tight jeans causes rape.

>>4113598
>"Patriarchy means LGBTQ people are homeless more"
>"hmmm, males are homeless in disproportionate quantities as well"
>"BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT"

>>4113736
I must disagree. Enlightened thinking is what's absolutely necessary.

For any change to be lasting and positive, we must forgo "women's rights" in favor of "human rights".

>>4113587
It's not 95% mate. You don't have to exaggerate a real disparity for rhetoric's sake, it does more harm than good in the end.

>>4113820
But the majority of homeless are women and children, fuckface

>>4114329
see >>4110847
>Men accounted for 63.7 percent of the adults who used emergency shelters or transitional housing over a 12-month period.

>>4113820
>>"Patriarchy means LGBTQ people are homeless more"
what are you talking about? homophobia and transphobia makes LGBTQ youth more homeless more.

>>4114643
I thought that heteronormativity was part of the patriarchy.

>>4114801
maybe in the most loosest, convoluted sense. but heterosexism is something different than sexism.

>>4113497
>hat was a point. Stirner was an irrational that considered reason a spook. Everything being a spook was just a spook of Stirners imagination. He's like Ted Bundy without the charm.

but that's bullshit. you clearly don't know what a spook is in Stirner's diction. There are two statements in your post

a) According to Stirner everything is a spook
b) Stirner's position is a spook itself

neither of these are true

>>4110847
The disparity in sentencing I understand; it's a case where attitudes toward or about men privilege women. Some feminists will try to tell you that this is only because men are privileged in other ways, but justifying disparities based on some sort of privilege calculus is pretty silly. A lot of feminists work against the prison system (since there are similar disparities based on race and so on anyway) but the way that men are affected is discussed a lot less than minorities or other groups that are more tasteful to advocate for.

Homelessness is something I couldn't argue for either way. Maybe homeless women are more likely to be victimized than men, but that's not a very defense for men being ignored. There should be more provisions made for all homeless people, and having specific women's shelters might do more harm than good.

I still don't understand why people point to workplace fatalities or murders, though. Men work more dangerous jobs, sure, but they're also given the opportunity to work dangerous jobs. A man who works these jobs is (ideally) not just working for himself or for his wife but for his family as a whole. The idea that this is something that needs to be resolved is sort of anti-family and too often relies on tired stereotypes about women taking men's money.

The murder rates seem to be irrelevant, at least to me. Again, why are these men murdered? It might come out of a part of their roles as men—working certain jobs, getting into violent situations and so on—but what are we to do about it? There's nothing wrong with talking about problems without obvious solutions, but it's hard to imagine there even being a solution in such a case.

>>4113797
Confirmed for knowing nothing about Judaism. That old joke about the man in a flood ignoring rescue by canoe, by boat, and finally by helicopter, because he "puts his faith in God," after which he drowns and asks God why He didn't save him for his faith, to which God replies "I sent you a canoe, a boat and a helicopter!"—this joke explains Jewish spirituality to a large extent. The reason why there have been so many Jewish doctors throughout history is precisely because God works through "the spirit of the world" rather than by miracles.

>>4113797
How does that refute anything I said?