/lit/ - Literature

>>4098446
MEGA's in beta. It can be bitchy sometimes. I've looked over a few complaints from a few threads and have decided to put together some tips for getting this shit to work right.

“But Frater K, why won't you make a fucking torrent?”
“Torrents are easier to track. MEGA's not. Deal with it.” ~Z

Best browsers: Chromium and Firefox. Others may crash/randomly fuck off. It's best to have a browser with default settings/no plugins. Use a temp profile if at all possible.

To avoid the problem of downloads choking in the last few moments, grab single folders/files as opposed to the whole damned collection. It's big. It WILL take you time to digest. It's over half the size of Grimoar.cz now, with a lot more “exclusive” content.

Downloading .zip files preserves the file structure.

Finally, if all else fails, clear your cache, drop it in FRD, or wait until there's less traffic. If none of these help, bitch at the developers, not me.

I'm going to give this a bump.

>>4098446

Cut the bullshit OP. What spells have you cast, did they work? What are the most powerful demons you've summoned

How will this help me in life at all it seems fucken retarded

>>4098567
it is "fucken retarded". if magic worked, we wouldn't need the internet. the world would be ruled by magicians.

is the world ruled by magicians? no, it isn't.

>>4098573


That's like saying if weightlifting worked we wouldn't need the internet. Yes weightlifting works in that it makes your muscles bigger/stronger.

You don't understand how magic works and what it's for.

>>4098567
Solar adorations, lunar adorations, Goetia, Enochian in my youth, various bits and pieces from David Griffin's Ritual Magick Manual, operations of my own design, initiations, etc.

Invocation, evocation, assumption of godforms, sexual magick, and any other mode of practice that fits my needs.

k, I'll bite for a small handful of memorable experiences:

The first time I though there might be something to the practical aspect of all this I was around 14 (I'm 26). I was an edgy little atheistic shit, but was getting interested in LaVey's psychological view of magick and concepts of "intellectual decompression", or liminality. Anyway, I get into an altercation at school with this huge redneck piece of shit and he attacks me twice; once I got roughed up pretty bad, the next I was more prepared and ended up doing some decent damage to him, and he backed off, but I was still pissed. In my anger I used a modified version of the destruction rite in the Satanic Bible, just because.

A few days later I heard at a family reunion that the target had flipped an atv onto himself just a little while earlier...so I started to delved deeper.

About four or five years ago, I needed a change in my life. I didn't care where from. I used the Goetia entity Oriax to cause this. I got a wild hair up my ass in the middle of a class at Uni and started preparing all the sigils needed on paper (I'd rather be doing this sort of thing at home with my own tools, but didn't have access.

I went out in the woods, performed the preliminary invocation of the Goetia, the charge, etc., and had a clear as day vision of the entity (Loin head, man arms, serpent body) bracing itself against two trees. I asked for something. ANYTHING to change, and wind up with more knowledge than before. Immediately after the license to depart I ran into a guy at the student center, friend of a friend passing through town selling 2-CE. I buy three hits and take them on the way home.

I study the anthropology and neurology of religion and ritual academically, so when I experienced a voice from about a foot above and behind my left ear, I took notice (often a symptom in direct information transmission). In the end I was directed outside, where things get even fuzzier, but that night something was communicating as I was coming down, I was compelled to begin the serious disciplined study of Thelema again. I've had similar experiences to this outside of drug influence (and is another example of the segue from drug to mystical state).

I've also used it to to get through court cases I probably shouldn't have.

I can give you many anecdotes about magick but that's not 'proof',

I'm far more interested in the phenomena experienced in mystical contexts, and the language game of their description, than the language game of parsing out their objective validity

>>4098612
Magick is not throwing fireballs. Sure, there are little practical things you can do; egoistic things like harming a rival or a sudden windfall, but in the end practices like this are more or less toys. They don't lead to any 'attainment'. Just lets you get through your day a little easier.

Thus, after a certain point, magick (in my opinion) SHOULD be reaching toward trancendental and transformative experiences. These practices have already helped ease struggles in my life (via the practical stuff),and I'm in the same boat as you. I'm seeking the All/One. Often, this experience takes place as a physical, face-to-face encounter. See Levinas' "Totality and Infinity".

>>4098446
Thank you Frater K! I was one of those who recommended you stick around.

I'm still reading Initiation to Hermetics, but it is an ongoing process :)

>>4098612
>a voice from about a foot above and behind my left ear, I took notice (often a symptom in direct information transmission)
Nothing like that happens with telepathy or remote viewing.

This guy. This guy is not a faggot.

>>4098638
I don't think I've been talking about telepathy or RV.

>>4098573
>the world would be ruled by magicians.

it already is.

>>4098619
>I'm seeking the All/One. Often, this experience takes place as a physical, face-to-face encounter. See Levinas' "Totality and Infinity".


have you tried any advaita or zen? seems like they get to the same point and are much more simple

>>4098655
I prefer Saivism over Buddhism.

>>4098446
>https://mega.co.nz/#F!ARBw0ZaR!fl307jRa_ltEFOQ7ECxwLg

holy shit, all those books!!!

but how many viruses and trojans are we gonna get????

>>4098645
Why would receiving information from different sources feel any different if it is direct every way?

>>4098661
None.

>>4098675
It's a symptom of impending religious experience in literature on the subject. It's essentially just a neurological phenomena associated with these experiences of the Other. Not to give physical validity to those experiences....or imply that all mystical experiences are due to flaw or organic defect. Controlled induction of these experiences is known; see Yoga, or the "God-helmet", so called.

On a side note, if telepathy is indeed a thing, I don't think it's as simple as some kind of mechanistic relay, or else we'd have probably caught on to it's method of action by now.

how many times have you transcended time and space?

>>4098716
I've smoked an obscene amount of DMT, if that's what you mean.

>>4098653
This.
But they're the boring ones, that's why you don't notice.

H-hey OP, are there any t-text that deal with increasing your success with r-r-romance?

>>4098703
The god helmet was supposedly used to induce telepathy. The engineer believed the mechanism involved was the same that enabled quantum entanglement, with a (currently) unknown form of error correction taking place inside the brain to "transfer"(really just keep them in synch) information between them.

is that OP in OP's pic? pretty qt

>all this bullshit
>black brother op
...worse than trying to claim a grade in the A.'.A.'.

>>4098759
Since OP is taking the name Frater I would assume it's not a female...

>>4098772
What is the A.'.A.'.? And what does a grade in it entail?

>>4098774

But OP sounds like a female from his/her posts.

>>4098777
Frater is "brother" in Latin. OP's trip is Frater K.

>>4098776
A.'.A.'. was the Order Crowley and Jones established after the Golden Dawn fell, it adheres to the formula of Thelema, the new Aeon. "Claiming a grade" is basically a horrible thing to do, you can never claim higher than probationer no matter where you are in the "grades" which are based off the Tree of Life.

I've been reading through OPs "stories" and he's completely out of left field with so much stuff and he isn't correctly working with any formulas I can see. He seems to understand it on a theoretical level but from his stories, if true, he isn't properly working with it practically. Like his Evocation story, he seems to imply he brought the actual objective spirit (which is wrong in the first place) into Assiah, I doubt that happened and even trying is very stupid. You should bring it to manifest in yetzirah and than charge a talisman or Eucharist from there, to bring the result into the physical.

I'm not a fan of talking Occult on 4chan anyway, it usually boils down to stupid ego stroking by 1 person and a few others taking their information as gold. If you want to learn start slowly yourself and definitely ignore this place altogether if you want good advice, that even means ignoring me (my last post with this trip will be thi one anyway).

heruraha.net is probably the best place to go for Thelema talk, although Jim just wants to pimp out his books nowadays you can mine the older posts for good information if Thelema is your thing. If that's too much look into doing some BOTA work.

93, 93/93

>>4098805

is there an accurate account of Crowley what he did and how he died?

how accurate is that youtube documentary on him "the wickedest man alive"

>>4098805
>'m not a fan of talking Occult on 4chan anyway, it usually boils down to stupid ego stroking by 1 person and a few others taking their information as gold. If you want to learn start slowly yourself and definitely ignore this place altogether if you want good advice, that even means ignoring me

This is the best advice most of you will ever hear on this shit.

>>4098821
>This is the best advice most of you will ever hear on this shit.

But it implies there is good and bad advise about Occult shit.

Is there a right and wrong way to read astrology and predict the future with it? No. It's just for fun.

>>4098825
>But it implies there is good and bad advise about Occult shit.
Obviously. There's good and bad advice about everything.

>Is there a right and wrong way to read astrology and predict the future with it? No. It's just for fun.
There might actually be, but if you're dead set on being entertained then the 'right way' is of no use to you. Go be entertained.

>>4098794
That's funny...because one of the tests for passing through a certain grade is the visible evokation of spirits.

Do tell; what about a free repository of occult books is indicative of being a Black Brother? I reference you to: >>4098619

>>4098759
That's Claudia Canuto de Menezes. She's a Brazilian and should probably be Soror Superior right now, but walked away from the formal A.'.A.'. system after Motta's death.

She wrote an obscure doctoral thesis in literature: Apologists of Mystical Nationalism: Hermeticism and the Hermetic Jesus in 'W. B. Yeats' Cuchulain Plays and Fernando Pessoa's Mensagem.

>mfw there are actually grown people on /lit/ who believe in magic

top lel

What order is David Blaine part of?

>>4099264
He's the head of Blainetology, of course.

>>4099270
I was just kidding

please don't throw put a curse on me

>>4099278
I know. Hence the joking.
Only faggot roleplayers get butthurt enough to threaten curses online.

>>4099256
Hey, I don't ask for anyone's belief. You don't have to be an occultist to enjoy some of the stuff up there. Not every scholar of Christian history and texts is a Christian themselves.

It's up to you if it's anything more than crackpot literature.

Based OP

The Yoga collection is amazing - could you point me towards more Yoga and Eastern religious, philosophical and mystic writings. Mainly Kundalini stuff. Thank you

>>4099297
Really, everything you SHOULD need is there. It gets really flaky outside of core texts and academic work.

Bump.

>>4099354

hey dude last time i asked you about the lucifers manual or something like this, i cant find it anywhere. that book is not about lucifer its about alchemy/ magick and meditation. help me find it man!

I don't care about modern ritual "magic(k)" or any of that. I'm extremely interested in the whole enlightenment deal, and a bit interested in shamanism (not just the Siberian deal; all the groups that served a similar role in early society).

Any recommendations?

I'll ask again because I didn't get a clear response in the previous thread. Where do you start? What book/authors/systems can be considered noob-friendly? I assume not all books can be understood by a newcomer, so please drop some names that I could start with.

>>4099476
Bardon.
Regardie.
Anything in Chaos (Liber Null/Psychonaut).

This collection isn't particularly for beginners, but rather intermediate folks who are trying to track down hard to find texts.

>>4099456
>Enlightenment
Rosicrucianism, Freemasonry, Neo-Platonism, etc.

>Shamanism
Voodoo/Africa file.

>>4099215
>That's funny...because one of the tests for passing through a certain grade is the visible evokation of spirits.

Sure is, but I am pretty sure you haven't attained anywhere near that grade. Have you had your Knowledge & Conversation? If not, Evoking to physical appearance is not advised.

>Do tell; what about a free repository of occult books is indicative of being a Black Brother?

I didn't say that the "free repository of occult books" makes you a black brother. I'm more or less looking at your "stories" and your suggestions in this thread.

I don't really think you're a true Black Brother as that would imply you had crossed the Abyss, or at least have your mid attuned to Briatic consciousness.

>>4099476
Liber O, Liber E, Israel Regarie's "Garden of Pomegranates", Dion Fortune's "Mystical Qabalah" and Liber ABA. for "Ceremonial Magick"/western "high" magick/whatever you wish to call it.

I just found my old Live Journal from 2008-2009. A good deal of my ritual work from my time as a Probationer is outlined, in the earlier posts a few pages back I put some of my actual journal entries up (Enochian work, pathworking, some skrying), and some treatise on beginner stuff like Pranayama:

http://fraterooe.livejournal.com/

>>4099487
I'm talking about the eastern concept of enlightenment. What does that have to do with freemasonry?

>>4099505
If you knew your syallbus, you would most certainly not imply that one must have passed K&C to evoke to visible manifestation, as that's tested at 4=7.

Sorry I'm not opening up my work for you to examine, if you'd like to arrange this, my email is in the MEGA. I was just giving some examples in my past.

It's cool, though, that you think you can judge my attainment today from two stories, both many years gone, one of which is well over a decade old.

>>4099518
My bad, I thought you meant the European Enlightenment.

>>4098732
Goetia, check Sitri. Or invoke Pan, if you're after booty.

>>4098794
>you can never claim higher than probationer no matter where you are in the "grades" which are based off the Tree of Life.
Wrong. In fact, this would counter the purpose of the whole system, as a Probationer cannot bring more people into it. The grade you were looking for is "Neophyte".

>>4098805
Heruraha is alright, but there's a lot of crazy there also.
Evocationmagic is also a good forum.

>>4099532
>as that's tested at 4=7.
And from what I hear you're expected to begin showing results in this direction at 2=9.
Can't find it in my documents though; might be wrong.

>>4099532
>If you knew your syallbus, you would most certainly not imply that one must have passed K&C to evoke to visible manifestation, as that's tested at 4=7.

I am well aware of the syllabus. Exposure to evocation actually goes as far down as 1=10, and yes, Evocation is tested at 4=7 as, and this is the important part, you are working "through" A'ayin on toward Tiphereth. Someone who is 4=7 has surely had numerous and significant dealings with their HGA (the path of Tau and the "Vision of The HGA" as shown in column XLV of 777, from 1=10 to 2=9 which in the old Golden Dawn syllabus would be 5=6, the bhakti practices in Liber Astarte, etc.) leading up to finally having their K&C in the following grades. In the Abramelin one does not tame tho demons, the beasts of the "firmament" until after the K&C.

> you think you can judge my attainment today from two stories, both many years gone, one of which is well over a decade old.

As a rule if someone is giving others advice I will be incredibly critical of them and their stories, I don't like seeing people possibly being led astray.

It's nothing against you, nothing personal, as I said you know your stuff theoretically, I just really don't advocate most of the stuff you were talking about it your stories, specifically evocation and taking 2-CE and attempting to find anything significant from the experience, which wouldn't be a good thing for others to latch onto and attempt.

>>4099736
>Wrong. In fact, this would counter the purpose of the whole system, as a Probationer cannot bring more people into it. The grade you were looking for is "Neophyte".

True, but that is within the Order. You shouldn't go to the uninitiated and start laying claim to grades (which I am not implying happened in this thread at all, I was just answering the question >>4098776 proposed). These types of unspoken rules for initiates are many, another good example is that anyone possesses the right to claim the Grade of Master of the Temple and take the Oath of the Abyss, doesn't mean it should be done, we saw what happened to Achad.

>>4099736
>Heruraha is alright, but there's a lot of crazy there also.
>Evocationmagic is also a good forum.

Evocationmagic's Enochian forum is a really good forum for anyone interested in Enochian.

Yea, Heruraha has some idiots, but most forums do. Lashtal is a decent forum as well but most of the board aren't practitioners, rather people who collect Crowley's works. The Magick and Qabalah sub-forums they added can spit up some good stuff every once in awhile, though.

This is all a load of horseshit, you know.

>>4099895
Depends on how you are looking at it. "It's all in your head...you just have no idea how big your head is."

>>4099894
Men, my problem with heruraha is Jim himself.

>>4099913
Yes I agree. As I said earlier, he seems to just want to pimp out his books these days. Ask a question and he'll just say "I covered this in 776 1/2" and he'll straight out ban you for simply disagreeing with him. I got a 3 day ban because I felt his explanation of some of the Ordeals listed in "Liber Tau" was off and I called him out on it so he basically gave the usual "this is a classroom for the CoT/TOT and I am a teacher" eplanation for giving me the ban.

>>4099956
That's why Z and I post on 4chan. We're not going to net a ban for having an unpopular opinion about Gunther, Breeze, Jim E., Shoemaker, or anyone else.

>>4099981
Shoemaker isn't too bad, nice guy in real life and very helpful especially during initiations if its your first time acting as a officer.

>>4099989
I've heard the exact same thing (he's actually nice in real life) about Dave Bersson.

Have you ever encountered the Siphra Dzeniouta, Sepher ha-Zohar, or the Idra Rabba/Idra Sutha? I'm certain that these texts cannot be found, except perhaps in a most mutilated and distorted form, on the internet. The "social sciences" recently have become acquainted with קַבָּלָה by way of psychoanalysis/deconstruction, but many of its secrets will remain such for those simply interested in analyses.

If one would be interested in this, but wanted to be taught by a real person instead of a book, what should one do? You said yourself that you are not interested in teaching people from 4chan. How can someone find groups that study these matters outside of the Internet?

>>4100093
>93
It's not to difficult to use the internet and find some sort of instruction. The A.'.A.'. Wikipedia page has links to all extant online lineages of A.'.A.'.

Then, of course, groups like ToS or Cultus Sabbati, all have an online presence.

So do you magic-users seek something different from what, say, Zen Buddhists seek? If not, why engage in a years- or decades-long practice of study of arcane systems rather than more directly confronting the psychological and/or spiritual enlightenment you seek? IOW, why occupy yourself with shit like "angel languages" and dozens of degrees of mediated indoctrination rather than just meditating?

Not trying to sound hostile--I just don't get it, really.

>>4100410
This guy again...just also want to say thanks for supplying that huge library of materials. I'm browsing through it, and it's quite interesting. It's just hard to see what the point would be of really devoting time to this sort of study.

>>4100410
Yes and no. It depends on the individual. Yoga is core to Thelema.

>If not, why engage in a years- or decades-long practice of study of arcane systems
I hate to break it to you, but it takes WAY more than 15 minutes of work a day to get proficient with any mystical system. It'll take years and decades at the feet of a guru in the ashram just as it will take years and decades at the feet of a guru in any other context.

> rather than more directly confronting the psychological and/or spiritual enlightenment you seek?
That (should be) a direct stated aim of whatever mystical tradition you're entering, at least in the modern day.

>why occupy yourself with shit like "angel languages"
Same reason for occupation on mantra or yantra or tattvas; to help impart the focus needed to get the job done.

> and dozens of degrees of mediated indoctrination rather than just meditating?
Any ideological system is going to indoctrinate to some point. You're going to find the same things like Nath; or even Zen.

>>4100449
It's not for everyone. Some people are just fine working the exoteric practices. Some people don't need a systematized process to attain (though Divya are rare). Most of us, though, are vira, who are only going to benefit from the struggle up the path.

>>4100636
I see absolutely no point in devoting my life to a belief that has close to no guarantee of yielding results.

If magic is useful, why isn't it more widespread? We're surely going to need it if we want to combat the NWO.

>>4100659
>I see absolutely no point in devoting my life to a belief that has close to no guarantee of yielding results.
The system does not deliver results, your working of it does. It's not the hammer that drives the nail, it's your work.

>If magic is useful, why isn't it more widespread?
Centuries of reductionism, positivism, materialism, whatever they're calling it these days.

>>4100680
I should reiterate here that I'm not trying to convince anyone to actually do any of the practices in the library; that's up to the individual. My reasoning/thoughts should have zero bearing on whether or not someone wants to pick up these practices. If you're doing this stuff because some dude on the internet convinced you it's a good idea, you may want to re-prioritize.

(I'm >>4100410 and >>4100449 but not >>4100659)

>>4100636
>>4100659
>>4100685
Thanks for your thoughtful answers.

>it takes WAY more than 15 minutes of work a day
Of course I didn't imply that a path to enlightenment would take minimal effort. It's interesting, though, that you said
>to get proficient with any mystical system
because they're you're still emphasizing the system, and I would think that should be secondary--to be removed as soon as possible. But really what puzzles me is that it seems that some of these practices are so convoluted that there must be some degree to which they're complicated for complexity's sake. I suppose I'll only know for sure when my head cracks open and the Buddha comes out, though.

>>4098454

frater k you are the deepest bro

your deeds shall be remembered forever

i will not tire of speaking my thanks

>>4098657

total bro

>>4100747
The best way to live is without rules.

The best way to break rules is to know them...intimately.

I would agree that you work from your own, with no system other than your own, after a certain point.

The complexity is often a point; it's a wall for you to crash into, over and over, trying to surpass. Or a way to help develop intense, single pointed interest.

>>4099518

>eastern concept of enlightenment

thinking like this won't get you there mate

>>4100766
Not necessarily. Attainment of Boddhisattva (and the requisite cultivation of Bodhicitta) is the litmus test for Mastership of the Temple. There's a reason why we place the Buddha in the City of Pyramids.

>>4100778

Frater K, I am your deepest bro >>4100745.

What I was pointing out was that enlightenment is not an 'eastern concept'; it is a consciousness possibility, or opportunity, given to us. We can say that being human is having an opportunity to have an opportunity (to attain enlightenment), and that this state of mind comes not from a concept, in which east/west divisions are a constant.

By no means was I rendering the eastern history of boddhisattvas an innecesary plight of thought.

I was just pointing out that the phrase "eastern concept of enlightenment" is in itself an obstacle towards it.

>>4100994
As the one who said "eastern concept," I just said that to differentiate it from "the enlightenment" meaning the period of history in Europe.

Obviously there have been mystical traditions seeking union with the divine all over the world, and in fact every major religion seems to either be overtly mystical or to have a mystical subcommunity somewhere within it.

>>4098446
Why should I mess around with demons when I could just be Christian and follow the will of God? Seems like a pretty big waste of time

>>4101009

oh, ok bro, my misreading then

Frater K, do you regard Ramana Maharshi as an enlightened being?

>>4101022
If you're going to be a Christian, I hope you'll at least be Orthodox. Only church that isn't heretical in some way.

>>4100680
>The system does not deliver results, your working of it does. It's not the hammer that drives the nail, it's your work.

Well, of course, but the work itself is not really satisfying inasmuch there are no guaranteed results. That's what I meant. When you learn a language, you talk to people, when you learn how to fix machines, you fix machines, when you learn hot to put a nail on a board you learn how to put a nail on a board. All of the result of learning the craft can be foreseeable and have an empirical basis.

Magic is not empirically demonstrable. This is what I'd like to discuss with you. I am fully open to be proven wrong.

>>4100685
My reasoning/thoughts should have zero bearing

It's not every day that I stumble upon a very juicy library of occult books gathered by (what presents him/herself to be) a magician. Or sorcerer, or warlock, or mogul, that begs the question, what do you call yourself?

>>4101028
Or I could just read the word of God and pray and avoid the issue in the first place.

>>4101060
>Magic is not empirically demonstrable.
Actually, if we're talking about the phenomenology of the neurological states, these can be demonstrated, and not as madness.

Furthermore, as with any with any other system you can derive statistics from, you can at least test validity and reliability, internal and external, using the same techniques that psychology, sociology, pharmacology, sports, and economics. (Will x practice give y result given z variables?)

This is why we keep record. You're expected to map trends and findings in your own experimental work (at least in my system).

So, can these phenomena be *described* in terms of pure number? We can do that, and the stigma is lowering. Can we demonstrate anything beyond a one-to-one neurological correlation, not yet.

And even then, I'm not particularly interested in the empirical demonstration of all of this: We know that there is at LEAST an interesting phenomena happening. To me, it's the transformative experience of these mystical phenomena that are important; if the mind is capable of producing something at the scale of what's described as Knowledge and Conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel....then that's just as compelling to me as there being a verifiable spiritual force behind said experiences (which I actually suspect).

You can call me anything...I don't really care. I try not to pin myself with too many labels. It's bad enough carrying around the implied baggage of "Thelemite" without adding to it.

>>4101112

so in a way it's like self-hypnosis that brings about positive changes in yourself?

And the obscure language games involved in these practices are necessary for some reason, but not because they are invoking ghost spirits from other realms ala Dungeons and Dragons, but because they are triggering some sort of hidden sub-routines in your brain?

>>4101101

you should check out orthodox writings and their saints, they can help interpret "da wurd of god" and they have specific praying and even meditation techniques you can use

going about it on your own is fine too, but people are great at self-deception

>>4101160
>so in a way it's like self-hypnosis that brings about positive changes in yourself?
*Could be*. I'd prefer not making a judgement with any kind of concretism until more data has been gathered.

But yes; in the psychological view, that would be the gist of it. See the academic works of Andrew Newberg w/r/t glossolalia.

>>4101199
where should I look for more academic literature on this. you said you study the neurology of religion and ritual, right? can you point me to a couple interesting articles or a good journal publication?

I'm an academic in a slightly related field

>>4101214
anus.edu

>>4101160
The language and rhetoric are meant to forcibly start the process and make you learn. They shake things up and force you to re-evaluate what you thought you knew when given new information.

Basically, it is to teach you how to read.

>>4101112
So magic does not exist in and on itself, it exists only in the mental construct of the people who believe it can bring about a change... a change that first happens in the individual who then looks for external signs. Kind of like a placebo effect.

What has been the weirdest thing you've envountered in your studies/rituals? What made you go "okay, shit's getting real" (if at all)?

What would you say are the common characteristics to all the different styles of magic?

>>4101946
>it exists only in the mental construct of the people who believe it can bring about a change

like scientology?

>>4102581
Like any belief.