/lit/ - Literature

>>4048345

same as everyone else, i suppose. it's a movement, not an abstract concept

after modernism

Andy Warhol shits in a jug, you say "I don't get it", several homosexuals titter smugly about your naivete vis-a-vis the nouveau avantgarde, an elderly French woman with a pipe and her humanoid tangerine friend say "c'est juste votre opinion, mec" repeatedly, a feminist lesbian dyke couple sues you for alimony, and western society collapses

>>4048373
>Andy Warhol shits in a jug
He made a bunch of paintings with piss
They're okay

>>4048370

avant garde

>>4048384
>They're okay
For me to poop on?

>>4048384
They aren't anything.

Deconstruction. That's it.

>>4048401

>>4048373
If that's what it took for western society to collapse, then maybe it didn't deserve to live?

Dead

>The postmodern reply to the modern consists of recognizing that the past, since it cannot really be destroyed, because its destruction leads to silence, must be revisited: but with irony, not innocently. I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and knows that he cannot say to her ‘I love you madly’, because he knows that she knows (and that she knows he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say ‘As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly’. At this point, having avoided false innocence, having said clearly that it is no longer possible to speak innocently, he will nevertheless have said what he wanted to say to the woman: that he loves her in an age of lost innocence. If the woman goes along with this, she will have received a declaration of love all the same. Neither of the two speakers will feel innocent, both will have accepted the challenge of the past, of the already said, which cannot be eliminated; both will consciously and with pleasure play the game of irony… But both will have succeeded, once again, in speaking of love.

>>4048846
I like it

A collection of individuals more obsessed with trying to distinguish themselves than create something of value.

That is of most post-modern writers, the few great ones break boundaries just to find new ways to express things. A lot do it because they want to be unique.

"Meta" wankery that may or may not actually add something to the story.

Why are the threads the same fucking sophist 19-year old fedora bullshit every single god damn time I check to see if /lit/ isn't total trash anymore?

>>4048345
“If what's always distinguished bad writing--flat characters, a narrative world that's clichéd and not recognizably human, etc.--is also a description of today's world, then bad writing becomes an ingenious mimesis of a bad world. If readers simply believe the world is stupid and shallow and mean, then [Bret] Ellis can write a mean shallow stupid novel that becomes a mordant deadpan commentary on the badness of everything. Look man, we'd probably most of us agree that these are dark times, and stupid ones, but do we need fiction that does nothing but dramatize how dark and stupid everything is? In dark times, the definition of good art would seem to be art that locates and applies CPR to those elements of what's human and magical that still live and glow despite the times' darkness. Really good fiction could have as dark a worldview as it wished, but it'd find a way both to depict this world and to illuminate the possibilities for being alive and human in it.

Postmodern irony and cynicism's become an end in itself, a measure of hip sophistication and literary savvy. Few artists dare to try to talk about ways of working toward redeeming what's wrong, because they'll look sentimental and naive to all the weary ironists. Irony's gone from liberating to enslaving. There's some great essay somewhere that has a line about irony being the song of the prisoner who's come to love his cage… The postmodern founders' patricidal work was great, but patricide produces orphans, and no amount of revelry can make up for the fact that writers my age have been literary orphans throughout our formative years.

We enter a spiritual puberty where we snap to the fact that the great transcendent horror is loneliness, excluded encagement in the self. Once we’ve hit this age, we will now give or take anything, wear any mask, to fit, be part-of, not be Alone, we young. The U.S. arts are our guide to inclusion. A how-to. We are shown how to fashion masks of ennui and jaded irony at a young age where the face is fictile enough to assume the shape of whatever it wears. And then it’s stuck there, the weary cynicism that saves us from gooey sentiment and unsophisticated naïveté. Sentiment equals naïveté on this continent.

You burn with hunger for food that does not exist.

A U. S. of modern A. where the State is not a team or a code, but a sort of sloppy intersection of desires and fears, where the only public consensus a boy must surrender to is the acknowledged primacy of straight-line pursuing this flat and short-sighted idea of personal happiness.”
― David Foster Wallace

>>4048345
The foetid arse trumpet of the Devil's own whore.

>>4048373
i'm really digging this post

>>4048373
that was acerbic poetry

Post-modernism should have been the expected result of the art movements from the prior centuries. I believe like many abstracts and/or avant-garde pieces the concepts and theories of postmodernism are marvelous in design yet flawed in presentation.

>>4048970
DFW really was an ovrwordly faggot, and I don't even mean that in a hateful way.

> Implying the essentiality inherent in the english term 'post-modern' can be adequately described as being a description.

Here goes:

What happens when the government installs bourgeois shills in universities to prevent class struggle and encourage mindless consumerism without offering any way out.

Also, Proverbs for Paranoids: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.

Thanks, post-structuralists!

>>4048345
The construction of a metanarrative which is founded on the rejection of all other metanarratives.

>>4048373
>>4048894
>>4048897

Postmodernism isn't always avant-garde. In fact, avant-garde is rooted in modernism.

>>4049759
what does derrida_eat_chips.jpg always sound more tiresome than alienated wage labour?

>>4048345
The referral of the book as a material object, not a vessel for storytelling, the text as words on a page, and the author as a presence.

>>4052019
thanks Deleuze!

>>4048345
postmodernism in what?

Postmodernism is:

-Even I could do it
-But you did not

>>4053875

Shut the fuck up.

Okay?

Anti-Enlightenment.
Go ahead, argue against me, you all know that it doesn't matter anyway, because my opinion is just as valid as everyone else, and that objectivity can't be applied here.

>>4048373

Thank you.

>>4048373
Pretty shitty society if it collapses when someone does something 2deep4u. I didn't know it was so easy.

>>4054564
>it doesn't matter anyway, because my opinion is just as valid as everyone else
>>>ledit
>>>Tumblr
>>>Any other hugbox