/lit/ - Literature

>>3922002

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

>>3922002

>>3922010
His character in the Shining is also acceptable.

>>3922002
H. H.

>>3922077

He's hardly likeable. L only went that way because she wanted the D.

Well, he's creepy and he's spooky.

>>3922086
The entire novel is an effort to present himself as sympathetic. It sort of works.

But yes, Lolita was clearly asking for it. What a whore.

>>3922089

I don't know, I was creeped out from start to finish. Couldn't even beat off about it half the time.

>unsociable
antisocial m8

also, good/bad character dichotomy? srsly? outside of heavy handed sci fi/fantasy most characters are a bit more complex.

>Raskolnikov

>>3922002
Rorschach
Magneto
Tyler Durden

Quickest to my mind

>>3922131

>>3922002

>>3922010
No way, man. McMurphy is a good guy and highly likable. He is an outlaw, sure, but not vile, he doesn't want to harm anyone.

Anakin is an interesting character exactly because he could be so good and yet turned to be so evil. He is on the brink and so there is this tension around which way he will incline and how much that would interfere with the order of things. A man who was killed by Darth Vader, as sugested by Ben Kenobi, except he is also Darth Vader himself. Of course, Star Wars is quite beautiful in theory and neckbeard manchildren fantasy in actuality. Not to mention the whole prequel trilogy obliterated the mythos surrounding Vader's origin.

There are several characters that are anti-heroes or questionable in their moral codes. But I can't think of anyone right now that matches Anakin's position as a "mutilated" man (as described by Campbell), the good son who turns into this obscene powerful evil father.

Dr. Jekyll is probably the most well known character with that latent vileness. Also from Stevenson you have the character of John Long Silver who is a good man, but a traitor, an evil pirate, but a friend. I love his role in the story and highly recommend Treasure Island.

>>3922087
Not to mention he's mysterious and kooky

the dad in as i lay dying.

>>3922121
>antisocial
damn, you're right

I mean characters that you know will become twisted or are going to commit a vile action but they behave normally during almost the entire story.

Gatsby

>>3922002
>that image
It's like poetry

>>3922206
Anse? Because he appeared to be acting retarded during the entire book but at the end it appears he used everybody to get what he wanted?
Makes sense.

Tony Soprano immediately jumps to mind

>>3922002
Punpun?

Obama

>>3922326

>>3922326
>>3922386
/lit/: Japanese soap-operas.

>>3922265

This, actually. Fucking great character.

>>3922361

>>3922002
Godwyn from World Without End

>>3922182
Honestly, Star Wars is just awful at dealing with moral issues. Any ethical complexity that develops feels like a reactionary response to the criticisms of simplicity that were levelled at it, rather then an honest attempt to create something compelling.

Anakin's character arc is:

- Goody two shoes punk kid.
- ???
- Edgy brooding teenager.
- Psycho who tries to claim that him killing off a heap of Jedi, including innocent children, is just a different point of view and OK from his perspective as long as it's done in the name of 'love'.
- Evil lord.
- He truly loves his son and sacrifices himself, so he's a good guy again at the last moment.

>>3924053
It's a black and white myth. There is no attempt at moral complexity.

Raoul Duke

Henry Chinaski

Captain Beatty - Fahrenheit 451

I just remembered another one: Jason Compson IV in "The Sound and the Fury".
You never suspect he's a bastard until he starts narrating his chapter.

>>3924087
I don't think so. There is such attempt. And there is a background that allows for more than black and white morals. There is failure though.

>>3924053
Yeah, I totally agree, but keep in mind that all came much later. Forget the prequels.

Darth Vader is an evil lord (black and white, not round at all) who killed Luke's father in the name of the Emperor. Obi Wan is a master of an ancient group of warriors who fought for good. We then discover Vader is actually Luke's father. How could that be? How could he be Kenobi's friend and become such vile general to the point of attacking his own son? What could he possibly experience to cause such confusion? And then his son presence is the one thing that rendered all that politics and apperances useless.

To leave it unexplained is to allow for it to be complex. The moment they showed us that story it is the moment they killed us. But it could be alright, though it's just some ridiculous shit on top of it all.

We are side by side with Luke and Vader is his father. The reasons of our fathers will always be a powerful theme. It's like Vader was saying "you wouldn't understand...", denying to explain his past. And that is fucking interesting, man.

>>3922245
It rhymes?

>>3922002
God, look at the fucking shadow around his feet. This was from an official teaser poster for phantom menace. I seriously don't understand how the prequels managed to be so technically incompetent.

>>3924605
Even then Lucas ruined it with The Return of the Jedi, which suggests that killing his archenemy while upset will immediately make a jedi fall to the dark side.

>>3924691
What's the problem with that? The Jedi are supposed to only use their power to perpetuate peace, not for personal gain. To allow yourself to be taken over by rage and a lust for revenge would be completely antecedent to the whole Jedi schtick.

>>3924701
How is killing a murderous tyrant and restoring democracy not a peaceful goal? And even if we assume it is, why would achieving it make you want to dress in black and take over the universe?

>>3924729
*assume it isn't.

>>3924691
>>3924729
Lucas just kept ruining it. Even the original trilogy is childish as fuck. I stand by that SW is good just in theory, ignoring most of it...

Anyway, I can go by those suggestions, exactly because they are just suggested. In the original, the Force, the dark side, the jedi, those were a lot more mystic and mysterious. Maybe this responsibility to act good as a jedi is also there because it hangs on a delicate balance, something that could take over you if done wrong. There is something evil latent in all jedi. Maybe that's why Kenobi turned to a hermit, more than just to hide for political reasons, but also out of shame, remorse, caution, in spiritual seclusion not to fall for the dark side himself.

Again, none of this is well executed. The jedi and the sith are just two gangs of people from different fashion schools.

>>3924701
>antecedent
>using big words incorrectly on /lit/
>shig

>>3922242
Yeah this is what I thought of. In my high school AP lit class I wrote a paper on how Gatsby would be an unlikable guy if the reader wasn't hearing about him through Nick.

Satan from Paradise Lost maybe?
He's bad, but his purpose is good.
I'm not too sure.

>>3924790
I need sleep
>>3924729
I always got the feeling is that the motives behind an action were more important to them. The Jedi are supposed to be selfless in their duty, so it's bad to act on your own feelings even if the outcome would be good. And I agree with you on your second point, the whole thing Lucas did in the prequels where the sith was some kind of stupid evil fraternity and they had their own special lighting force just completely killed it. The dark side was supposed to just be a concept for putting personal/national gain over the peaceful well-being of 'mankind' (What word should I use when they're aliens?) and using your wisdom for evil.

PS. If you're never seen the Genndy clone wars series you should, it's the only good thing to come out of the prequels.

>>3924087
I have to disagree. Every time I have watched Star Wars I am surprised at how much I can identify with Anakin/Vader and see him as a very ambiguous character at times. The simple fact that he is commonly associated with evil and evil symbolism is not enough to say he is a black/white character, I say the mind is what actually matters.

Walter White

>>3924988
The problem is that, with the way his character is 'set up', nothing about him seems genuine at all. His love is 'course, like sand', his political ambitions are unclear and feel like excuses to fight the goody-goody Jedi and he's too much like a stupid, over confident teenager to trust not to screw over everything.

The whole "anger allows the dark side to take over" thing is really screwy, as it's unclear how anger would affect a person's motivation so much that they would 'accidentally' turn on those they care about. It feels like an attempt to write tragedy by someone who doesn't understand what motivates tragic feelings.

>>3922002
Harry Angstrom from Rabbit, Run

>>3926576
Falling to the dark side should have resulted in a stronger dedication to your side, dedication so strong you start losing your principles little by little, all the while clinging to the trappings. You know, standard Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft stuff. It shouldn't result in switching the color of your lightsaber and taking the name of your old enemy.

>>3926576
He IS a stupid, over-confident teenager (and twenty something). That's kind of the point.