/lit/ - Literature

I think books are a developed art. Film has been around for a short time and video games have been around for an even shorter time. There are some exceptions with films that are made and there are some exceptions for books that have been made. You find that most books weren't written for entertainment value but for literary merit, you find that most films were made for profit and entertainment, while nearly all video games are made for profit and entertainment value with only a few (Dark Souls, Spec Ops: The Line) titles that were made not for financial gain, and possess merit.

Vidya is still a rather young medium. It's also more about profit than anything else in this day and age.

>>3867631
>implying
If you don't get more out of a great book than a great game, then you have no imagination.

OP, you got me hooked. Go on.

>>3867661
pretty much this, video games and movies are just less refined as a medium. Although I would argue that there are plenty of movies with merit, but big blockbuster flicks only care about profit.

>>3867661
>Dark Souls
>not for financial gain, and possess merit

>it had a bigger emotional impact on me
it's ok, little plebling

>>3867668

I got more out of BioShock than from a number of classic books.

>>3867679

MA here. You know words that no scholar ever uses?

>entry level
>pleb
>patrician

I seriously hope people realise this board is not representative of the actual literary world, where your puerile bullshit would melt like snow in Satan's fucking asshole.

Heart of Darkness > Apocalypse Now > Spec Ops: The Line

>>3867689
Forgot to take off my stupid fucking trip from another thread.

Has anyone else here recently played Kentucky Route Zero?

>>3867689

The Hollow Men > Heart of Darkness > Apocalypse Now > Spec Ops: The Line

>>3867671
99% of books published are for profit alone

>>3867706

99% of what you do is for profit alone.

Spec Ops was a fucking terrible game with a terribly written story

>>3867706

Perhaps overstating the point a little, but the spirit of the statement is true.

>>3867661
How was Dark Souls not made for financial gain and possess merit?

>>3867719

To elaborate, we must qualify this statement with the caveat that it refers to numbers of book objects, rather than the number of distinct works that happen to be released as books.

>>3867751

Dark Souls was free. Some rich guy hired a whole team to make the game of his dreams and that's why we can all get it for free: a game made not for financial profit which possesses merit.

Wait...

>>3867711
> game
> story
Way to fucking miss the entire point.

>>3867766

Both are for fun and experience. Your point?

morrowind is like lotr on acid. it's entering another world, replete with laws, religious belief, local custom. a veritable tour de force of the genre.

most people who read books thought to be 'classics' do so to seem intelligent.

Videogames, at best, are just interactive movies -- with plots that aren't better than movies or books, but, the same plots, again... and again, and again.

People mistake interactivity [immersion] for adding depth to the story.

HEY I WAS JUST ON CRACKED TOO

>>3867782

And actual smart people don't need to do that. I got an MA in literature in two languages, and I can safely say I enjoy video games and some go deeper than certain books. That's a fact. Same with movies.

>>3867788

It's clearly capable of more depth through a proper application of that interactivity. At least for the laymen that lack the imagination for books.

>>3867788

How about a virtual reality instead of an "interactive movie"?

Immersion is important in any work of fiction. If you feel out of it, that's a pretty fatal flaw for any novel or story, unless it's postmodernism and then it doesn't matter because nothing does at this point.

>>3867791
>How about a virtual reality instead of an "interactive movie"?

The medium hasn't quite gotten there yet.

oh look a cracked article, yes this is worth discussing.

>>3867788
>he's never played Killer7!

>>3867685
>language police
it's ok, little plebling

>>3867689
Heart of Darkness is boring drivel.

>>3867820
lol

I'd rather read a carefully constructed narrative, where every plot point and interaction is meaningful, than aimlessly explore some sandbox world or 'choose my own adventure'. I don't know whether video games are art or not because I don't know how to define art, but they are certainly an inferior form of storytelling.

>>3867820
Why are you even here? You obviously have no appreciation of the written word.

>>3867835
To rave about how A Song of Ice and Fire is the best thing to happen to literature since the ebook.

>>3867833

They're not the same medium; you'd be uneducated to think otherwise.

>>3867661
Dark Souls was a sequel made with a slightly different name so that they could expand and not pay Sony money.
Spec Ops was a shitty shooter with a poor attempt at a mature story made because the team was forced to make a shitty shooter.
You are painfully casual.

the game Arcanum is as good as any novel.

>>3867858
>says someone who has not read many novels

>>3867863
wrong, I've read over twelve.

>>3867863
people that read literature jump at any opportunity to prove their superiority over the illiterate masses.

What's wrong with being able to appreciate Rome: Total War?

>>3867869
perhaps they're not jumping, perhaps their superiority is just so evident that it jumps forward of its own accord.

>>3867878
what's wrong with being a 12 year old? Absolutely nothing so long as you're actually 12.

>>3867886
But anon, I'm not a video game

>>3867892
you're not? But you're so shallow and trite?

>>3867851
I could describe a game one way to make it seem bad by listing only its shortcomings, or I could do the exact opposite. Using adjectives like "shitty" first prompts me to believe that you do not know the difference between an argument and a debate. Calling me casual is not an insult; it is a base assumption.

>>3867878
With Europa Barbarorum?

Nothing.

>>3867886
When I was little my grandfather asked me how old I was. I said, "Five." He said, "When I was your age, I was six."

Tell me your secrets, grandpa

>>3867914

Is your grandpa Korean? Or just a fungi?

>>3867914
once upon a time the world was slow to change. New things had to cross mountains, they were printed and shipped. They travelled with people by train and by wagon. They meandered and lumbered to get from the cities to country and to other cities, to change and grow. The styles of the world trudged forward slowly. This was neither good nor bad, but simply how things were.

But things change faster these days. We are left behind by fads and styles before we're barely out of the womb. The longer men live, the shorter their childhoods. So they cling and and they fight trying to be immature because being mature just never stays in style these days.

So you see, child, when I was your age I was older than you.

>>3867631

>Not being able to appreciate all three for what they are.

>>3867886
>>3867895
>>3867914
>>3867949
"Mature" is a buzzword for faggots. Do whatever the fuck you want.

>>3867964
two are great
one is a shitty video game

>>3867967
If there were a competition to develop a single post which perfectly displayed the extended adolescence of the 4chan mentality, of the pointless immaturity and the inability to connect to reality, I doubt anyone could exceed that one.

>>3867978
SO MADURREEEE :DDDD

>>3867967

"Buzzword" is a buzzword for faggots.

>>3867991
Ur a faggot, faggot.

Reading continuous narratives for extended periods of time activates different parts of the brain than reading forum posts, watching a movie, or playing a video game.

Also whoever made the OP image should be neutered.

>>3867995
Your Mom activated different parts of my brain last night

>>3867999
She taught you how to read?

There has never been a video game with artistic worth that came anywhere near good lit/film. Maybe some storylines were nearly as good as some best seller/genre fiction stuff but that's it.

>>3867995
>activates different parts of the brain than reading forum posts

First of all:

>different from

Not than.

Second of all, what fucking parts are you talking about? No. Fuck off.

in so far as video games have good story, the game play adds nothing, in so far as they have good gameplay the story is irrelevant.

>playing vidya for a static story

>>3868010

>from, not than

Thank you.

>No. Fuck off.

no u

>>3868018
This is why I like Fable III so much; the story is so deep yet so open-ended, and the moral choices are incredible, so much more complex than what I've read in some morality play masquerading as literature

are there any video games that portray moral complexity with more depth than "you harvested the little girl no bonus for u" though? my suspicion is no, not never, not ever

video games don't let people feel better than others. they don't let people seem more intellectual or cultured than others.

>>3868050
>Fable III so much; the story is so deep
nope nope nope nope nope nope nope

>>3867661
Did you completely forget about MGS?

>>3868054
dat plebby syllogism

>>3868060
Y'know, MGS works because Kojima was originally studying to be a director; so, he actually knows how to structure and write properly.

Though, he's fairly a one-trick-pony.

>>3868071
>Though, he's fairly a one-trick-pony
You'll take that back when MGSV comes out.

>>3868071
>he actually knows how to structure and write properly.
>Kojima
Fucking what? This comes from a MGS fan and this is simply not true. While he has some decent ideas, most of the time it's lost behind layers of EXPOSITION and PLOT talk. He is near insane when it comes to having as much contemporary political issues as possible in the game. What you get is a disjointed story that is filled with useless sections, overdrawn cutscenes and melodrama. While I generally like MGS games and I find the stories to be fun, I wouldn't say they hold much merit.

I will admit though that MGS2 is genious, although flawed, in that the story of MGS2 can only be told through a videogame.

>>3868074
Monosodium glutamate 5?

Fuck, I didn't even like the first four. Yuck.

>>3868090

what's wrong with you? glutamates are a delicious molecule, that make meats delicious.

>>3868098
>unnecessary comma
>eats meat

could you be anymore pleb

>>3867896
The dev-team even said it is a shitty shooter they were forced to make. Don't care about debating with you, you're a moron.

>>3868107
>hurr durr what is death of the dev-team

>>3867631

You know what's interesting that no one ever brings up about Heart of Darkness? It was heavily inspired by impressionist painters.

>>3868110
>death of the dev-team

>>3868121
Yes, but impressionism was inspired by video games so it all comes full circle.

>>3868121
really? that... makes sense actually
there's that brilliant passage where the sun rises through the mist while they're on the river

>>3867897
my nigga

>>3868127

You mean this passage?

>>3867991
faggot is a faggot for faggot, faggot >:D

>>3868110
There was (is?) only one DevTeam, and they weren't writing 'shooters'. Fucking casual.

>>3867999
>>3868002
#rekt

>>3868142
that's great, but actually reminds me more of the opening sunset on the thames

>>3868082
>flawed, in that the story of MGS2 can only be told through a videogame.
why would that be a flaw?

>>3868171
Because video games can never be art.

In my opinion, Video games are still very much constrained by technology.
I completely disagree with the comic artist's message here.
I thought that Heart of Darkness was a much better work of art than both Spec Ops: The Line, and Apocalypse Now. In my opinion, Apocalypse now is a close second, but Spec Ops: The Line is just embarrassing. From a ludological standpoint it's ludicrous. I remember at one point in the game, I was told to use White Phosphorous on a group of enemy combatants. I held the line for hours, shooting at the infinitely regenerating snipers on the rooftops. When my ammo ran out, I squad commanded my teammates to shoot, because they had infinite ammo. I eventually realized that the game was messing with me, and I looked up a solution on line.
One of the game devs said, (I kid you not): "If the player is frustrated at that point in the game, they have the choice to stop playing." That, to me, is a copout. If the devs really wanted to stick it to me, without embarrassing both of us, they should have just opened the path backwards through the level, so that I could have just walked away. If they had done that, I doubt that anybody would have taken it, and the existence of an exit strategy would give the slaughter some bite.

>>3868174
so the fact that the story is tailored for videogame is a flaw because it goes against your categorical sentence of art.... that's disappointing, I expected an interesting answer

>>3868193
Your expectations are not my problem.

>>3868199
didn't say they were, i just pointed at how much of a disappointing bore you are and how much embarrassment you cause to your mother and me. now go to your room, young man

>>3868206
YOU'RE NOT MY DAD, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE FUCKING MY MOTHER THIS WEEK DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!

>>3868181

This. The game spends hours beating you over the head for something it MADE you do. Realistically, you aren't going to walk away. You spent money on that game that you won't get back, of course you're going to see it through.

>>3868211
Yeah, there have been several video games lately that have hammered on that whole theme, and by several I mean, bioshock did that too. Which I agree is just disingenuous for a game maker, its sort of a pretension you know, reminds me of why I hate magic shows, the whole time its like "hey look over here! haha, you should have been looking over there." Its just kind of stupid.

>>3868217
>"hey look over here! haha, you should have been looking over there." Its just kind of stupid.
Unreliable narrator much?

>>3868222
Well an unreliable narrator would be just as annoying if they sprung in on you as a third act twist. I mean its one thing if we're looking through a lens of a character, its another if the author just jumps in with a "nope, i was lying to you!"

>>3867978
This.

>>3867695
How does TS Elliot have anything to do with heart of darkness?

>>3868050
I might have acceptex Fale 2 but Fable 3 is enragingly bad.

>>3868289
nothing really
HoD is briefly quoted at the beginning ('Mistah Kurtz, he dead')

>>3868050
>fable 3
dear lord do you even video games.

>>3868050
>This is why I like Fable III so much; the story is so deep yet so open-ended
Nope no-
>Filename
Oh you clever bastard.

>implying this didn't send exactly the same message in a much more coherent fashion, without being a military shooter.

>>3867631
>Colonialism is bad

Either this guy is being deliberately facile or he didn't actually read Heart of Darkness.

>>3868362
why can't it be both?

>>3868362
No shit. The Belgians makes Kurtz look small time.

I just beat the Last of Us and it has convinced me it is impossible to tell stories in vidya

>>3868369
It's hard to tailor stories that both acknowledge the players autonomy and not manage to be shit.

>>3868375

Thats why the medium is flawed as a story telling medium. The problem is people dont really seem interested in changing things and the current $60 price tag limits games

>>3868375
that's why most of these new-fangled "high"-brow games are all about setting and style rather than a story with a minimal narrative.

>>3868382
That's fuckin stupid. I haven't seen a game in 10 years that come close to Thief when it comes to setting and style.

>>3868391
wut's your point?

>>3868394
If video game companies got tens of millions of dollars and hundreds of staff members, then why can't they make games better and more complex?
Did you know that all the textures in Thief were painted with oils?

>>3868402
who cares why. All that matters is they don't

>>3868402
Because they're more interested in writing games that sell than making the next Planescape Torment.

I remember reading a thread similar to this a couple of months ago, and while I was walking my dog later that night I was thinking of how I would make a video game that wasn't complete shit, and I think I came up with quite a good piece of work in my mind.

I had this idea of having a game with a shit ton of intertextuality with Crime and Punishment, where you play as a Raskalnikov-like character in a similar time frame. The main idea was that it would be a stealth game where you just break into a shit ton of houses and steal a bunch of shit, which in your mind is justified. But then your friend offers you a job, which you accept. But then while you're at the job, you just start stealing shit from the office and your coworkers until you get fired and you realize you're a kleptomaniac using poverty as an excuse for stealing stuff.

It sounds fucking retarded now that I type it out, I don't give a fuck.

>>3867631
>Why aren't you experiencing something deeper than both books and movies
I am, it's called meditation.
>tfw you are one with the universe

>>3868404
That's why most vidya, as a medium, will never become great. It's mainly business, not art.
Oh well, I'll just donate money to Toady and admire his autistic masterpiece called Dorf Fort.

Why does the copy of Heart of Darkness appear so thick?

>>3868430
because the artist never saw an actual book

>>3868430
The same reason the video game case looks so thick.

>>3868410
You're one with the universe anyway. No need to meditate.

Is this game art?

>>3868451
It's an above average fantasy story if that's what you're asking. Not that that means much in this day and age.

>>3868451
Nah, it's just a D&D novel turned into a game.

Are video games a literature?

>>3868451
No. It has artistic elements in it, though.

>>3868466
Well Katawa Shoujo is mainly text and pictures

I hate the word art.

>>3868479
I like how his argument is that his attempt at dime-store dragon statues is somehow superior.

>>3868479
Someone in the gallery had a good sense of humor.

>>3868479
I consider something art once it's been sponsored by Russia

>>3868513
I like how he seems to consider "art" to be nothing but pretentious self-gratification, and yet he doesn't appreciate the statue of a guy sucking himself off.

What the fuck is art?

>>3868513
He's just mad everyone cared more about the autofellatio statue than his.

>I could garner just as much interest being all edgy and sex-oriented, but I will be damned if I ever stoop to that pandering, subhuman level.

>>3868479
>masturbator contra masturbatory display of skill
I like it

>>3868479
How do you do that? My torso can't fold down the middle so my dick just hits me in the throat.

>>3868562
Gotta be more flexible than that.

I have a tendency to agree with OP's sentiment. For the sake of propriety, people tend to privilege the written medium over movies and movies over video games. This is an elitest, ivory-tower assumption. If you don't fall into blindly kowtowing to this assumption people won't be willing to argue with you on the merits of the disagreeing position but will rather immediately result to ad hominem attacks of "well you just have no imagination."

My own experience with text has been that most are simply not real or uncompelling, similarly with movies, and similarly with videogames. However, some of the most real experiences of my life, the most thoroughly moving, the most disturbing have been through this interactive medium. The only texts for which I can say the same are the texts I was forced to work through slowly; hence, I feel much more connection to the Iliad and the Aeneid on the grounds that I had much more intimate contact with them, being compelled to read them in their original language as a novice.

Honestly, I really enjoyed Spec Ops the Line; I also really enjoyed Apocalypse Now. When I had to read "Heart of Darkness" in a survey class, it didn't speak to me. Just another anti-imperialist narrative that has some moronic whites and odd jiggaboos. The final meeting with the book's supposed antagonist is also completely deflating.

>>3868369
I found the story compelling. I'm curious as to what exactly you found fault with?

>>3868344
>>3868344
>>3868344

>>3868608
It's pro-imperialist you dumb fuck. Things Fall Apart was written as a counter to Heart of Darkness, showing that the African people weren't devoid of culture and civilization.

>>3868636
Things Fall Apart and To Kill a Mockingbird are the two most boring books I've ever read

>>3868608
>>3868636
It's neither definitively pro- nor anti-imperialist
And Achebe's objection was that HoD was racist for showing Africans as somehow inhuman and other, part of the jungle and the 'darkness' rather than people like us (though I disagree with him)

video games are boring to me, movies are usually boring to me as well unless i'm watching with someone else for some reason, books are fun and nice

Heart of Darkness is absolutely anti-imperialist. I don't think Achebe would even disagree with this; I think he might even acknowledge it in the essay (altho it's been years and years since I read it).

Achebe's problem with Heart of Darkness isn't so much with Conrad's political message as with how Conrad tells it. On a basic level, Achebe is objecting to the fact that HoD is set in Africa but uses it, essentially, as a stage setting. It's not a story about Africans, it's a story about white Europeans that features black Africans almost as props to show how bad imperialism, when in reality Africans were human beings with intelligence and agency who were also the primary victims of imperialism. It's not an African story, it's a story about some white men going to Africa, and Achebe's point is that's a depiction of colonialism that fundamentally ignores actual Africans in a way that's historically incorrect, harmful, and arguably racist. And as part of this Conrad only really depicts Africans as others and Africa as a fundamentally alien, terrifying, inhuman landscape when it's a landscape that's been home to humans and civilization for millenia.

I don't necessarily agree with Achebe's analysis - I certainly don't think it makes the book racist and I fucking love the book - but there's a lot of truth to what he says about the book.

>>3868976
Hey there were people of all races that were victimized by imperialism and colonialism. Just look at the horrible effects that still persist on the former European colonies of America, Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.

>>3869126
I don't really know or care what point you're trying to make here

but I just wanted to make the point, first, that the colonial system that was going on in America and Canada was radically different than the one that was going on in Asia and Africa, and two, that the horrible effects actually do persist on people in America and Canada, actually much worse than they do in Africa or Asia, if you actually compare like to like instead of comparing the colonized natives in the case of Africa to the descendents of the colonizers and imperialists in the case of America and Canada. In other words, the colonial system was deeply harmful and continues to be deeply harmful to the equivalent colonial groups, it's just that the equivalent colonized group is the American Indians (and to some extent, you could argue, African Americans).

>>3868976
I still think its an unfair criticism. Heart of Darkness is about the desolation of the white man's soul in the Imperialist scenario, that is what the book is about. Conrad wrote other books that where actually about black people (The Nigger of the 'Narcissus' for example). If you look at Heart of Darkness in isolation as the whole European work to ever be written about Africa or Africans, then yeah there would be a problem, but failing to showing both sides of a story in a novella hardly amounts to racism.

>>3867805
shit this was on cracked?!

well that means that it certainly isn't a topic we should discuss because it was on another website

>>3869153
it's not because it was on another website

it's because cracked is a terrible dumbass fucking site that no one should ever visit

>>3867631
Apparently you are not blessed with Divine knowledge and have to have it handed it to you.

>>3868479
>I MADE MORE EFFORT THEREFORE THE END PRODUCT IS BETTER BY DEFAULT

>>3869149
Even beyond dark Africa, though, the way Conrad critiques imperialism is that Kurtz' job causes him to "go native" where "native" means crazy. The Africans aren't really portrayed worse than contemporaries portrayed them (as far as I recall), but even when they're in the background they represent this big ol' crazytown that would make anyone a savage. It's been a long time since I've read it, though

Apocalypse Now > Heart of Darkness > that Seinfeld episode where Peterman goes to Burma > Spec Ops

also that OP pic misuses a question mark within quotation marks what's the deal with that

>>3867631
I know who makes these stupid drawings and he's a fucking idiot

>>3868636
Things Fall Apart is better than Heart of Darkness. Conrad really came into his own with Nostromo.

>>3869635
Is he only 14 years old?

Books give most room for imagination.

>>3869655
Things Fall Apart is absolutely fantastic but I'm not sure it's better than Heart of Darkness.
TFA has a lot of really striking scenes and powerfully responds to HoD, but Conrad's writing and the depth of fear and chaos that makes up the book I think make it the better of the two.
I read TFA before Heart of Darkness for some reason though, so I should probably reread it.

>>3867949
I'm pretty sure that the striving for immaturity has less to do with the fleetingness of life and more with the fact that you really do have a proportionally shorter childhood.

Of course, modern technology does play a role - rather than having a few photos/relics and the memories of conversations long past, people have their entire childhoods preserved in HD video and on the internet.

If it hasn't already been posted, why comparison among mediums is fucking stupid.
That Cracked writer is a fucking mong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SZCJUULAqw

/v/ here, Spec Ops is a terrible game with a terrible story.

>>3868469
>>3868462
>>3868457
It's usually talked about in threads like this, which is why I brought it up.

But a more relevant question then, would a book be a better or worse medium for the story told in the game?

>>3869912
This guy:
>>3869901
Posted this video about why it works only as a game on a thread in /v/ a few days back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUAh3WCmCQo

I don't agree with all the points, but he makes a good case.

>>3869687
Of course, 14 year olds are the target audience for video games.

>>3869929
For most, I must grudgingly agree. I see so much fucking potential in games, yet so much is squandered because so much of the fucking audience are either underage or morons.

That doesn't mean there aren't great games out there, though, just that they're hard to find. The Stanley Parable and Kentucky Route Zero were two games I really, really enjoyed as of late.

>>3868976


the book wouldent work if he didint write africa as an alien 'other'

thats like complaining about how melville gave extensive characterization to the sea.

>>3869923
That's actually a really good video.

>>3869911
Agreed. Fuck that game.

>>3867788
That's a bad joke. You honestly don't think that conceptual art can't be improved by interactivity?

>177 replies
really /lit/?

>>3867914
When he was a kid he wanted to be bigger. Aspirations and shit.

I feel that a Visual Novel could be the answer to this provided it were to go beyond what VN are today.

A number of games that are well told stories final fantasy 3/6, grim fandango, plans cape torment, fallout 1 and 2, chrono trigger. There're many other games that tell a story well.

I don't necessarily believe that written stories are better, but I believe that games would be a lot better if current developers behaved less like Hollywood and more like story tellers, and some of our greatest works are achieved through books. With that said, I still think that any medium can be used to convey a story. I felt I've learned some important lessons from playing video games, and had some emotional moments. If you all remember final fantasy 7, when Aries dies, who didn't experience an emotional connection there.

>>3870040
Actually, look into Ressentiment. It's a manga, but it's sort of about what OP wants. I'm still upset about the ending, though

>>3870043
>Final Fantasy III
>Good story
Entire post invalidated.

>Nearly 200 posts
>No one has yet mentioned the Mother series, which manages to tell a story and tell it well

>>3867706
Publishers push books for money. Many writers are after something deeper. Movies and video games cant even get the ok without looking at potential profit.

>>3867661
>books
>developed
Yeah, that's why it's taken until the previous decade for someone like GRRM to finally "elevate" fantasy out of Manichean morality.

Human storytelling evolved in itself. The medium doesn't matter much. What matters is how society uses and receives it. Books, radio shows, TV, movies, comics, whatever, are all just outlets for evolving human cognition.

>>3868181
But the WP scene was the central point of the story. There is no Spec Ops plot without that moment, and as a player you are constantly limited by Walker and his insanity.
I think players are too reliant on the whole "my decisions have to matter!" thing. Linear games are as good as non-linear ones.
Also, I loved how the made a subtle deconstruction of Heart of Darkness where the main hero was kinda bland, genericly good guy, and you just assume you will play him in the game when really you are playing as Kurtz. It was kinda awesome.

>>3870105
Wow, even Mokap comes in a gender bent form.

The internet truly thinks of everything.

>>3867781

its also the best game in existence

>>3870111
I'm really high and your post confused me

>>3870040
Picture books already exist. Unless you were talking about movies and TV shows, but they exist too.

>>3870105
>Yeah, that's why it's taken until the previous decade for someone like GRRM to finally "elevate" fantasy out of Manichean morality.
You haven't really read any fantasy, have you? I couldn't name one fantasy novel that had 'Manichean morality'. (And no, there is nothing 'Manichean' in LOTR.)

Admit it, the closest you've ever come to a fantasy novel is an AD&D rulebook, right?

>>3870153
I think it's you who hasn't read much fantasy. 90% of the crap I read as a kid was black and white good vs. evil bullshit.

>>3870159
>90% of the crap I read as a kid was black and white good vs. evil bullshit.
Name one, please.

>>3870176
I can name several series, in fact. Most of it was Redwall, Shannara, Dragonlance and the like.

>>3867631
That image
Who is this person
I need to kill him

>Implying video games can ever say anything of value/real meaning

Jesus, that picture. I nearly vomited.

>>3870185
>Redwall, Shannara, Dragonlance
None of those are focused on 'good vs. evil'. They have characters that are motivated by something other than a simple lust for money and sex, but that isn't "good vs. evil".

Also, the bigger problem is the fact that you're a mouthbreathing degenerate who doesn't know what the word 'Manichean' means, yet still insists on using it to make yourself seem smarter.

>>3867781
this, and
>>3867858
this

This is now a /lit/ approved vidya thread, aka vidya that are on par with books in user experience.

-fallout 1 & new vegas
-deus ex
-the nomad soul
-outcast

>>3870272
No video game ever.
:)

>>3870272
>again, no Killer7
>no MGS2

how can you vidjafags be expected to be taken seriously when you leave the best stuff out

Just a question: did anyone on /lit/ play Hotline Miami? How did you like it?

>>3870272
>aka vidya that are on par with books in user experience.

what the hell does that even mean

>>3870304
I played it, I think it's awesome
I didn't like the boss fights though

>>3870311
someone trying to compare mediums of expression

I don't know whether Spec Ops had a great story because I had to uninstall it 30 minutes in. The game is just...boring.

>>3870272
Planescape: Torment

>>3870304
Overrated and repetitive. The story is lackluster, and any "deeper" meaning people have proclaimed from it isn't any new or unique -- much like most games.

>>3867716
Yes, but in comparison to other video games it was brilliant.

(Good) Literature=(Good) Film>>>>>>>(Every) Videogames

>>3870107
>Linear games are as good as non-linear ones.
Super Mario Brothers was linear as hell. But nobody cared because there was no story. I think the problem with these story based video games is that they misunderstand their medium. Being a game implies interactivity, and a story based game implies interactivity with the story. If you can't affect the story, then why bother putting one in the game anyway? May as well make a movie. Also linear and without jerking around your audience.

>>3867631
op is a faggot

>>3870574

Super Mario Brothers has a story.

Just because there aren't words coming at you doesn't mean there's no story. There is no such thing as a game without a story.

>>3870613
What's the story of Tetris?

>>3870559
That says more about the state of videogames than the quality of the game.

>>3870617

What happens when you play?

>>3868634

For one the story had nothing to do with gameplay, it is completely disconnected. The story is told using a movie. Plus during the ending I wanted to sacrifice Ellie and it wouldn't let me. I just sat there for a minute until I realized I had no choice but to kill the doctor

>>3868211
NO
The point of the game is that the player thinks that with killing his way throught an enemy army will reward him, and he will be the hero of the story, like in COD or in a lot other shooter.
The game isn't necessary blaming the player, rather the whole industy, maybe not even just games. I mean in todays market is full of fictional heroes who killed dosens of eeeevil terrorists and saved the day in the name if freedom. Walker in the game thought the exact same thing, his mission was only to find survivors and then report back and bring more people in. However, he forgets everything about this in the moment he finds the first dead soldiers, and people who look like terrorists, he thinks he will bring justice for everyone in Dubai, and he will make Konrad pay for everything, with killing everyone who stands in his way, becouse he only sees black and white. In the end he discovers that everything about Konrad was hallucination, and killig all those people was totally pointless.
sry fo mah bads engthlaish

>>3869923
>>3869901

That dudes videos suck. He is a giant faggot

>>3870728
So, it did nothing that Apocalypse Now didn't do; got it.

>>3867689
>>3867695

The Secret Agent > Heart of Darkness

>>3870741
Yeah I didn't say it was better than Apocalypse Now, or Heart of Darkness, but I do think it was really good game.

>>3867631
Spec Ops was a shit game with a shit story.
Play Doom instead. Human fights demons, human wins.

>>3868542
top lel

pic related

>>3870757

Read both. NO. NONONONONO. Secret Agent is good. But HOD is in the top 20 ever. Many people I respect think Nostromo is his masterwork though. Haven't made it to that yet.

>>3868479
I see nothing meaningful about a guy sucking himself off, in fact, it's crude and seems like something a Chimpanzee would make and then would show it off to it's friends before throwing shit at each other and doing that stupid monkey laugh.