/lit/ - Literature

Or you can try not being a faggot, up to you OP.

time to write about it bitch its your turn to make someone all sad and shit

George realizes that every action he can take is ultimately meaningless on a long enough timeline. While he finds this revelation liberating in a way, it also devastates him existentially when he realizes that action and no action will ultimately, given enough time, result in identical outcomes. “I am nothing, and I am everything,” he explains to Jerry, sadly, “but everything and nothing are effectively the same thing.”

His existential despair proves contagious when Jerry stops caring about how funny any of his jokes are, reciting meaningless and incomprehensible garbage without setups or punchlines that leave the audience confused and angry. “But this is life!” wails Jerry, to a particularly disappointed crowd. “Whether you laugh or not, you’ll still end up in the same grave!”

Kramer confuses himself for a pile of dog excrement on the sidewalk in front of the building. When a passerby treads through it unintentionally, Kramer follows the man home, repeating, “I have soiled your shoe.”

Elaine develops lung cancer without having ever done anything that might jeopardize the health of her lungs.

http://seinfelt.tumblr.com/
nihilism is not an existential quandary but a speculative opportunity

>>3830232

I already started. But it is only possible with sci-fi mixed with realism. You know why? Because I do not need to invent a dystopian future. The dystopian future is here and now. We're all fucked.

>>3830231

Go be a teen somewhere else, Slim Shady.

Now read pic related and swim in the empty world.
It's yours.

Jesus Christ, you're a fucking pseudointellectual who pretends to enjoy the 'finer' aspects of literature. You think you're somehow better than the seven billion idiots on this earth because you pursued complex reading in your spare time? Who the fuck are you, Socrates?

Stop your whining and learn how to not be such a cunt. Maybe the reason you're so disenchanted with life in general is because you have no idea how to live.

Or read some Tolstoy of Dosto.
I recommend Anne Karenina if you haven't read it yet.

>>3830227
>Hesse, Satre, Camus
>cream of the crop

>>3830253
aah 4chan

>>3830257

Yeah, teens galore.

>>3830253

Fuck off, kid.

>>3830264
Somebody's just upset that they were exposed as a whiner. I'd suggest a hobby, or some pursuit so as to further their idea of "muh existentialism".

>>3830238

Fucking hell.

>>3830244
I don't think your conclusion follows from the premise. What you're saying as I understand it is:
Since we already live in a sad state of affairs it's only possible to make someone sad by mixing realism with sci-fi.
I don't see how that would make sense at all. There are very sad realist tales being told every day. The suggestion that you can only make someone sad by giving him something he is less closely related to seems far too stretched. Furthermore, we are not ALL fucked, just MOST of us. There are still those that will leave a really pleasant life because the world has not gone so deep in the pit right now as to not allow a few privileged life to live completely pleasing lives. You could even put this frightening sight in a tale (that we still haven't touch bottom) and move someone, and make him sad and desperate

>>3830268

Upset? Why would I be upset? I am a proud whiner. There is nothing wrong with whining. It is a life choice and it is valid in the context of moral relativism. In my egoistical individualism I have chosen to be a whiny beyotch and it is as valid as you choosing to be an arrogant know-it-all teen.

>>3830227
>You name it, I read it. Hesse, Sartre, Nietzsche, Kafka, Camus
Since those are entry level, ultra-popular authors, those are not the authors you cite when trying to drive across the point that you're knowledgeable of literature and that you have read a lot. Just an observation, OP.

>>3830272
>know-it-all teen

You are aware that crying that the entire world's innocence is lost, while having not experienced the world in its beautiful entirety, is both typical of a cynical know-it-all and a disgruntled angsty teenager?

Seriously. Reading is enjoyable and all that, but to fully appreciate anything you have to compare it to the rest of life. That means going outside.

>>3830271

Basically, dystopias are portrayed as a future society ridden with dehumanization, totalitarianism, and the environment being fucked up. From this premise, I conclude that "dystopia is now", not in the future, and that the typically sci-fi theme of dystopia is not necessarily to be placed in the future because here and now we live in a dehumanized, desensitized, paranoid, controlled, and chaotic reality.

That said, the quintessential sci-fi theme of dystopia is contestable, as reality caught up with fiction.

Bluntly put.

>>3830273

I am not knowledgeable. I am a less than average intelligent guy. I never claimed to be an intellectual or bright at all. Within my limitations, those books fucked me up. Some are too bright and insightful and require heavier stuff. Some of us don't.

>>3830273
'Entry-level' usually refers to simple or easy authors, not the complexities of Nietzsche, Kafka, and so on.

>>3830253
Socrates died for our maymays

>>3830274

Son, if you only knew.

>>3830276
Ironically the current world is much more like Brave New World than 1984... we are slaves to entertainment.

Sure is allegory of the cave in here, OP

>>3830277
entry-level refers to both that and to which authors are introduced to ones first. Those are all such popular authors and are introduced at such a young age to people that it doesn't drive the "You name it, I've read it" point across (while the authors were obviously put there to illustrate said point). It's all I said

>>3830278
Being knowledgeable doesn't really require brightness in the field of literature. It's more a task of memory. But still, the observation was about this:
>You name it, I read it. Hesse, Sartre, Nietzsche, Kafka, Camus
The authors in the context are there to illustrate the phrase "You name it, I read it" and they fail completely in the task.

>>3830276
So instead you're just saying that the books can no longer be called sci-fi because they are already here. Assuming that is true then you just don't call them sci-fi, you can still write them. However, as I said, what's more terrifying is that we haven't actually touched bottom. There is still many possibilities for the world to take worse (or better) turns. As long as there are possibilities for different worlds, not in fantasy but related to reality, you can write sci.fi

>>3830291
>>There is still many possibilities for the world to take worse (or better) turns.

I am troubled by even attempting to define what is "better" or "worse". I rather remain on the definition of dystopia and how the common themes portrayed by it are already here.

>>3830227
>I had the dream of being an intellectual
Bwhohoho.

Thanks for cheering up my rainy morning, mate.

>>3830296
They can still be portrayed at different levels and varied. 1984 is not Brave New World is not Infinite Jest is not, I don't know, THX. The consequences and implications of each world are all different. I just feel that you are reducing it too much because you feel asphixia. You can deal with liberty, corruption, human nature, etc. From many different angles. The angle is what matters. Of course those themes are already dealt with, they are big themes and relevant. If you don't like the fact that you have to compete with other people because of how popular the theme is then look for a really really obscure subject and write about it. No shame in it. Finding a really obscure theme requires lot of research or being directly related to it

>thinking you have all the answers

"You're wrong." -Socrates

>>3830283
they also are in Brave New World...

>>3830309
"I drank what?"
-Σωκράτης

>>3830276
Just read Celine, he already wrote the book for you..

>>3830311
lel

>>3830311
He knows what he sippn on

>>3830227
Disillusionment is part of the journey.
And part of the cost you pay to become truly well read and not just a pseudo-intellectual. There are times when life looks bleak, but you will be able to get past it, as you gradually become inoculated to the unfortunate implications that come with various epiphanies. The young man starts out with such passion, but also with a vulnerability, the books that he reads change his entire world, they blow his mind open. Many people stop at this level. Thinking it to be enlightenment. When really it is a false enlightenment, A plateau they mistook for the top.
You must expose yourself to many viewpoints. And many unpleasant, and shocking ideas will be revealed to you, also many beautiful and wondrous ideas, but keep going, because as you go you will gain wisdom, experience and discernment, and while you will always be learning, you will be less tossed about by the new discoveries. Even when they have massive implications, you will be used to having your mind blown, and flexible so that you can alter your model of the universe/society/human nature and the way it works without feeling the emotional shock.
Then you will discover enlightenment is not about one fundamental truth, but instead about a seasoned traveler who is able to confront new facts and new connections, new paradigms with a mind that is open, yet skeptical.

You have begun to see the pain that is involved in becoming well read, but I promise you, there is joy too, further down the path.

>>3830326
Pretty much this, except, the if there is pleasure, it isn't a destination, it's walking the path.

Cause something is always gonna come along and fuck with your head. You just have to be cool with rolling with the punches.

I notice you didn't mention any analytics or scientists, OP. Maybe that's the next step for you. Seriously, I'm not saying they're better, but it might make you more interested in the world.

>>3830343
Continuing:

You're disillusioned now...that shit doesn't go away, it gets deeper. Clearly something resonated with you. Something about the hopelessness and how certain it feels. That got to you. You remember your first great book, the emotions it made you feel, the ideas that it helped churn out in that unremarkable brain of yours? Well in ten years it'll be like that, except you'll be thinking about today. As far as this disillusionment goes, you just go deeper into it because there's nowhere else to go. Then you emerge on shores of new paradigms, eventually. Then you keep going. Everything changes.

>>3830349
What scientists are good reads?

>>3830326
I know this doesn't add anything to the discussion, but did anybody else read that in his voice?
Just me?

>>3830303

Yeah well, I won't compete with Postman, for sure, for solely in the foreword of this Amusing Ourselves to Death he nailed it. That is not my point. My point is that what Huxley feared became true, and partially what Orwell feared as well.

>>3830326

OP here.

Wise words.

Dukkha.

>>3830353
Feynman, Sagan, Dawkins, etc.

>>3830370
ok. so what?

>>3830353

Just a note to all: this is not OP.

>>3830381

So what? Nothing. It is just something which I believe. So, I will keep on writing but not any longer in imaginary futures but on today's socioeconomic and cultural landscape.

>>3830227
ah, monsieur, i too loathe the examined life and that as one who, assuredly monsieur, is a pillar of "seen it all, done it all, read it all, <<examined it all>>." see me here now monsieur. i am the cactus too.

now, let's agree to die.

>>3830385
oh so then it was this after all...
>>3830291
>So instead you're just saying that the books can no longer be called sci-fi because they are already here. Assuming that is true then you just don't call them sci-fi, you can still write them. However, as I said, what's more terrifying is that we haven't actually touched bottom.
>As long as there are possibilities for different worlds, not in fantasy but related to reality, you can write sci.fi

just try not to say "sci-fi dystopias can no longer be written right now" because they clearly can. You just rather not do it and work within the bounderies of realism. which is a respectable decision in itself

quick, messieurs, let's turn this thread into a debate about the "literary legitimacy of science fiction" that will do justice to stereotypes of internet nerddom.

>>3830390
>>You just rather not do it and work within the bounderies of realism.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up.

I am glad we could go beyond my horrible "I've read it all" figure of speech.

>>3830396
>>messieurs

monsieurs

>>3830396
too late, already started and concluded

>>3830429
it's never too late here, monsieur, or too early.

>>3830450
it seems the other way around from this side, bud.

>>3830427
wat

>>3830454
well sure it does, body.

>>3830457
glad we understand each other, buddy

>>3830455
he's saying the plural of monsieur is messieurs (just as the the plural of madame is mesdames). not sure but I think he's right

>>3830466
Yes, monsieur ---> messieurs

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/messieurs

quick, messieurs, let's teach each other rudimentary french

1 love

>>3830478

c-comment ca va?

>>3830227
Ignore faggot authors who indulge in tragic endings just to "make a statement". It has to be quite a statement to excuse abusing your readers like that.
Be an optimist. There's no shortage of justification for optimism. Not saying there isn't for pessimism either.

>>3830227
You have long been a camel and by your explorations have become a lion. You are shaking of your burden. You are nearly done with the destruction of all silly notions about life. Your last clinging is this mourning of meaning and this disappointment. When you get over this you will reach a state where the meaninglessness it all doesn't bother you any more and you embrace it as a freedom.

You will enter the third phase. You will become Zeus the God Child, rolling the Stirnerian dice of fate to your liking, giddy with life itself without the need for external justification. Living becomes an end in itself. You will sleep sleeps of supreme innocence, and when you awaken for a cup of wine the world will smile upon you.

>>3830521
Abusing your readers? Please.

>>3830521
Have you never heard of catharsis?

>>3830521
Both are nonsensical and neither will make you happy, since once leads to bitter anticipation and the other to perpetual disappointment.

>>3830586

B-but I want meaning :(

>>3830227
But Anon, I figured this out when I was thirteen years old, having not read anything but 1984, beyond Harry Potter. We're not that clever, lighten up!

>>3830602
You'll get over it. After a while the whole idea of it becomes nonsense. What sort of meaning would you like and how would it work?

>>3830602
There is no meaning, welcome to nihilism.

>>3830586
Nothing Matters; and the fact that nothing matters, doesn't matter.

The idea that life has no intrinsic value is mitigated by the realization that life doesn't need intrinsic value.

The search for the meaning of life is made pointless by the realization that there are many meanings to life.

>>3830602
You can have meaning. It just can't be fundamental and universal, objective and derived de facto from the universe.

I think what these people want is not meaning, but validation. They want their meaning to be indisputable and inerrant.

>>3830625
That's what it comes down to.

"[Happiness is] a billboard on the side of the road that screams reassurance that whatever you are doing is okay. You are okay."
-Dick Whitman

>>3830667

Wasn't Whitman an athlete?

>>3830614

I define happiness in terms of love and love in terms of loving others and myself. So it will take a while before I sink this in.

this thread is fucking abysmal

>>3830227
Yeah I have this too and don't read much these days. A book has to really be good to get me past page 5.

Just remember lots of gloomy guts authors kept living, Celene, Bukowski, Kafka. Maybe its time you stepped up and used your knowledge and created something.

Read the start of Sexus by Henry Miller, you'll get it, thank me later, check your privilege.

>>3830678
Wasn't he an ad executive?

>>3830693
>abysmal

a·bys·mal
/əˈbizməl/
Adjective
Extremely bad; appalling.
Very deep.
Synonyms
bottomless - unfathomable - fathomless

>>3830709
>>3830693

I like it!
(pic related)

woww dis is so fassinathen wow
i say wow
pleease le people tel me the big thign
p les
albert camelel and freidrich jahookietzsche r teh begts
wiwww i am te nih
ilstits
i am the nihiltits
i have
no
tits
no tits

>>3830586
Too internalist. Adapt to the world, which is fundamentally, an enigma to be explored by humans through science and the arts. It is infinite.

Nihilists just don't know what happens when you find a stranger in the alps.

>>3830770
>Nihilists just don't know what happens when you find a stranger in the alps.

I'm a Nihilist. Yet I understand the joys of this world. It's meaningless anyway, why not have fun?

>>3830801
Have fun, but get the reference.
No point in calling yourself a nihilist if you don't know a good call back to one of the most memorable depictions of nihilists in pop-culture

>>3830801
Sincerity is what matters.

nothing you feel is actually important or serious, people crave strife so they make it up.

>>3830820

NEW sincerity.

>>3830811
Sorry man, I haven't seen the Big Lebowski.

I'll get on it, thanks for the clarification, though.

>>3830763
Internalist? Is that what they are calling interns now? First time I ever heard Nietzsche called an "internalist" - did you just finish reading Alan Watts?

>>3830844
No worries, you don't have to feel bad for missing a reference, it's just too big a temptation to see a nihilism thread and not make an allusion to the dude.

>>3830850

Dudeism has become osbolete.

Remember OP, just because you read something doesn't mean you have to take it to heart. If you read a lot of negative shit it warps your views of the world.

captcha permanent hatestun

>>3830681
No one said you can't be happy. Nihilism isn't a way of life, it's a world view.

>>3830905

I do not consider myself a nihilist. Just a random, average dude who wanders earth and starts to see more negative than positive things around him.

>>3830227
Snap the fuck out of it you big fucking baby. Control yourself.

>>3831147

What's wrong with being a big fucking baby?

>>3831149
Babies lack everything. They can do whatever you think is actually wrong and smile afterwards. Fuck em.

>>3831164

Nah, I rather fuck adults.

By the way, and Agent is on his way to your house.

>>3830227
>Hesse
>Sartre
>Nietzsche
>Kafka
>Camus

>heavy
>joyless
>dry
>filth

Did we read the same authors, OP? If you were to prompt me to name life-affirming, emancipatory, liberating and joyful authors/philosophers, they'd all be on the shortlist, excepting Kafka.

>>3831169
Wait, this wasn't supposed to happen. 'Tis is has gone all awry

>>3831188

Don't worry. It's all relative.

Would you pick up that soap for me, please?

> 2013
> Assumes being ignorant is better
> Assumes escaping the world will not turn him into a friggin bydlo
Ye creating ones, ye higher men! Whoever hath to give birth is sick; whoever hath given birth, however, is unclean.
Zarathustra

>>3830253
Thread should have ended here.

> Hesse
> gave him sads
Srsly, you should keep away from 99% of literature.
Hesse in not even trying to be depressing, he's actually trying to give people some hope.

>>3831783
Where did Harry go?