/lit/ - Literature

Please, share.

not OP, but
whether any of our interactions mean anything in the Grand Scheme of Things is inconsequential because our minds are sculpted to perceive our lives as the ultimate occurrence. by acting on egocentric desires and seeking beauty and love and good vibes we are contributing to the progression of the universe and beyond. just by respiring and taking up space, we’re bestowing our essence upon the globe(etc). perhaps everything means nothing beyond a certain point. perhaps our contributions only function as fuel to the cycle that will eventually kill the human species. can you imagine a higher motive? what else is there but our own experience and the cyclical nature of time? even if you believe in a god, what is your god working to achieve? what happens when every human on earth has been converted and there are no more wars or conflict or hate? do we all live in heaven forever, wasting away with no ambitions? (humans conceived religion and heaven as an answer but no one seems to accept that eternity in heaven with nothing but bliss would be the quintessential example of existential boredom. i’m putting this in parenthesis because i don’t want to offend anyone but it is the absolute truth so im not closing them. i know that the purpose of life is not necessarily to accomplish something hugely interpersonal, but to absorb every bit of greatness created by microscopic reactions you can and to expose the beauty in that greatness to someone(even if that someone is just yourself). termination of something colossal leads to the inception of something equally as colossal and if that doesn’t motivate you to live big than i’m not sure what will. my thoughts developed as i typed this but i’m not erasing anything so embrace the contradiction abound.

love, thoughts have power, and what you do today will show up in some form in the future

not OP btw

it´s somethihg like trippping on lsd?

>tfw everything is finally sliding into place

some people are meant to have a great life and some are not. only you will know which you will have.

>>3797436
i don't think i've met anyone who doesn't think they're meant for something more than the people around them.
everyone is equipped with a superiority complex that originates from the insight they have into their own thoughts.

>>3797405
>whether any of our interactions mean anything in the Grand Scheme of Things is inconsequential because our minds are sculpted to perceive our lives as the ultimate occurrence.

secularists say the darndest things

I hope all this bleak literature is saved so that happier and freer ages can look back on it and laugh.

>>3797456
>secularist
i think religion is crucial in society. it maintains the complacency of people who would otherwise run amok if they weren't influenced by the word of their deity. but i don't think religion is necessary or helpful in philosophy.

>>3797465
>i think religion is crucial in society
I think it's crucial to people.

>>3797433
top tier movie, anon

>>3797474
for hope?
are you religious? if not, elaborate

>>3797478
>for hope?
no, religion doesn't have much to do with "curing the fear of death", though a lot of its detractors, who want to make it out to be a mere "comfort" for the weak and afraid, often say it does.
religion is crucial for living a happy life, there are many reasons why but I think the most relevant at the minute might be that it liberates you from the merely secular take on life which often collapses into despair about "meaninglessness", or "we're all just animals, what does it matter anyway?", or "we'll be extinct in the future, and nothing will be remembered", or "there are trillions upon trillions of planets, we are barely a speck, we barely matter at all", or "I exist only to work and to consume", or "all of my actions are governed by biological imperatives and psychological phenomena that I cannot escape", and so on.

>>3797456

>Secularist

Have you ever heard of Taoism, judy?

>>3797505
you wouldn't here Laozi saying that shit.

>>3797496
>religion is crucial for living a happy life
bold statement
>it liberates you from the merely secular take on life
ok, but you're implying that such liberation is good
>which often collapses into despair about "meaninglessness"
the key term is often. religious devotion often ends in despair too, since then you need to assume there's something directing things consciously and you still can't understand why the things that happen happen. they are just different kinds of despair, you are either the kind that has one, the kind that has the other, the kind that fluctuates or the most fortunate kind, the one that doesn't despair much at all

>>3797496

If you feel despair about those thoughts, you are a weak loser. If anything it's liberating to feel like you can just be a human doing whatever makes you happy.

This thread is shit and everyone who posted in it should feel bas

>>3797496
as i said, i don't consider myself secularist and i agree with you, but i have to say that opposing viewpoints are necessary and i hope the idea of secularism is never abolished because opposition keeps people motivated.
also i think atheism and freethinking are necessary and i don't see any harm in the idea of meaninglessness as long as a person doesn't stop there in their thinking. that's why i believe human's intrinsic purpose is to spread their own purpose/ideas/beauty to as many people as possible. it's like reproduction except mental and regardless of how little you reproduce, if your idea is accepted by even one person it will always exist in the human flow of thought, which is enough to impactful imo

>>3797511
> religious devotion often ends in despair too

Yes it "ends in despair", but what if it doesn't end? Devotions mean ---- not ever wanting it to end.

>>3797513
> it's liberating to feel like you can just be a human doing whatever makes you happy.

this liberating feeling that you are talking about is itself despair.

>>3797507

Just let go, Judy. Be like the moon that revolves around the earth not because it's acting in a way to revolve around the earth but because it endlessly falls toward the earth. It moves without acting. Stop trying to influence your own self and just be.

>>3797518
the fact that you see it as despair shows how poisonously solipsistic you are. appreciation of the world around you despite your own fate is not despair at all.

>>3797518

>this liberating feeling that you are talking about is itself despair.

You're insane.

>>3797518
>Yes it "ends in despair", but what if it doesn't end? Devotions mean ---- not ever wanting it to end.
read the entire message and you'll know you're reading it in the wrong context. I meant that you can't end up feeling despair while you still have devotion and faith, not despair as a result of devotion and faith ending. "There's something conscious out there directing things, everything has meaning, I must trust it but I don't understnd any of it, it doesn't make sense to e why so many innocent people die, and how you can be born full of guilt" etc etc. You see how for some that can be despair (and for others not) while there being no superior sense can be despair inducing too, but again just for some. What for you is liberating is not so for all

>>3797532
>you can't end up feeling despair while you still have devotion
god damn it! can, not can't

i want to accept that some people will have to live their lives being deceived into thinking something will happen to them after death if they live a life of complacency and adoration of a symbolic being, but my conscience won't let me

>>3797525
well you've said two different things, but they both amount to despair

>you can just be a human doing whatever makes you happy.

this is despair because as soon as you cease to do "whatever makes you happy" you are lost, and even when you are "doing whatever makes you happy" you are still in despair, because you cling to this thing desperately like a lonely man clings on to "his woman" because you know that when it leaves you that you are lost

> appreciation of the world around you

this is despair because the world is always subject to imperfection and corruption, and in trying to "appreciate it" you will always end up coming across something that throws a spanner in the works, that so contradicts your "appreciation" that you despair.
I have experienced this one personally. I once had a jolt of enthusiasm about life after coming to an "appreciation of the world", with the stark beauty of nature and with the many ripe possibilities of life, but then I saw something which contradicted my "the world is all-beautiful and all-good" approach, in my case it was a story about a boy who was a member of scientology and who was mentally-ill, and who ended up stabbing his mother multiple times partly because his scientology peers pulled him out of the hospital because they thought such medication was against their religion - I hope I don't need to detail the dreadful in that story.

>>3797514
> Feel Bas

>>3797560
there is no good without bad. appreciation of the world does not mean that it's all-good, but it does mean that it's all-beautiful. happiness is nothing without pain to put it into perspective.

>>3797560
also i think your argument would be more valid if you chose a different word than "despair". i feel no despair; who are you to tell me any different?

>>3797560
Why are you so bent on seeing despair everywhere? I rarely encounter it.

>>3797560
have you met any actual non-religious people...?
your theories are all ok but if you compared religious people and secular you would realize there is sad and happy people in both sides.

and I don't think he means what makes you happy as something instantaneous, if you like doing good to others you can spend your life doing that in a limitless project, it can not end unless you're disabled and even then you can be happy you finally get to rest without renouncing. there is a multitude of ways to be happy without believing in a god (not that believing in a god is bad either)

Enjoy the good, endure the bad, accept reality for what it is, and don't make a big deal out of anything.

>>3797579
>>3797577
>>3797579
>>3797577
not being conscious of your despair is the most common way to be in despair

people are in despair more than they think

>look at yourself in the mirror, see something that you don't like
this is despair. I know the response to this would be, "seeing your own faults is natural and healthy, it allows you to rectify them" but this isn't want I am talking about. I'm talking about the sinking and hopeless feeling that is very common when people look at themselves and would rather not be what the thing that they see. Even if this were healthy and practical it would still be despair, but it is often not practical at all - rather than being encouraged to "better themselves", when people see their faults they tend to want to run away from themselves into forgetful diversions; rather than being encourage to "better themselves" they often develop a kind of hatred, or at best an indifference, towards themselves, that causes them to neglect themselves.
This is all caused by the sickness in human vanity, and it's this same sickness in vanity that causes people to enjoy the suffering of others as a despairing way to temporarily forget the sickness in their own vanity.

>>3797625
and even when this sort of despair is practical and it does encourage people to "better themselves", it is still despair because it's a matter of wanting to always reshape yourself into something that you aren't, always chasing despairingly some unachievable perfection that would satisfy your vanity (your vanity, which cannot be satisfied ever). This is why even the richest men still desire more money, why the strongest men have doubts about their own strength. This is why Caesar wept when he saw Alexander the Great, because being Rome's dictator wasn't great enough for the vanity in man.

>>3797634
when he saw Alexander the Great's statue *

>There is no handed-down-from-the-gods 'meaning,' so you are free to make your own.
>Wherever you are, and whatever state you are in, the only pivotal thing that you need to focus on is doing. Always be doing. Something, anything.
Eh, that's mine anyways.

Sometimes I like to think I'm like Laozi or Zhuangzi, unflappable, unfuckwithable, content no matter what happens. Other times I feel more like a Camusian rebel, determined not to accept the world as the fucked up place it is, even if changing it is hopeless.

In reality, I don't know if I'm both or neither, and whenever I try to "follow" one of the two as a philosophical stance, I realize that I've only chosen it over the other because of some romantic idea of a rebel or a sage that appeals more to me at the moment.

But I know that since reading Camus' essays and reading the Tao Te Ching, I've been much more comfortable and happy with my life.

>>3797679
>I've been much more comfortable and happy with my life.

this too, is despair

>>3797685
If this is despair, I like it.

>>3797625
Despair (De*spair") (?), v. i.
[imp. & p. p. Despaired (?); p. pr. & vb. n. Despairing.]
[OE. despeiren, dispeiren, OF. desperer, fr. L. desperare; de- + sperare to hope; akin to spes hope, and perh. to spatium space, E. space, speed; cf. OF. espeir hope, F. espoir. Cf. Prosper, Desperate.]

To be hopeless; to have no hope; to give up all hope or expectation; -- often with of. "We despaired even of life." 2 Cor. i. 8. "Never despair of God's blessings here." Wake.

Synonyms -- See Despond.Despair (De*spair"), v. t.

1. To give up as beyond hope or expectation; to despair of. [Obs.] "I would not despair the greatest design that could be attempted." Milton.
2. To cause to despair. [Obs.] Sir W. Williams.Despair (De*spair"), n.
[Cf. OF. despoir, fr. desperer.]

1. Loss of hope; utter hopelessness; complete despondency. "We in dark dreams are tossing to and fro, Pine with regret, or sicken with despair." Keble. "Before he [Bunyan] was ten, his sports were interrupted by fits of remorse and despair." Macaulay.
2. That which is despaired of. "The mere despair of surgery he cures." Shak.


If you despair from seeing a couple flaws in the mirror you're just histrionic. Not everyone is.
Being uncomfortable with parts of yourself is not being in dispair.
Accepting you're not perfect is not despair.
Feeling a bit of emotional or intellectual pain is not dispair.
Again, not everyone is in despair even if most of us despair in one or other moment of our lives.
Religion doesn't fix despair, it only makes you despair in a different manner

>>3797688
"liking it" is part of the despair

>>3797693
Okay. How is that a problem?

>>3797693
Wow dude, you've blown my mind. How it must feel to be so enlightened.

>>3797693
then despair is cool, no?

>>3797690
>If you despair from seeing a couple flaws in the mirror you're just histrionic.

It's not that people see flaws and then despair, it's more often than not that they are in despair so that they often find flaws in themselves, flaws that they can't forgive themselves for having, and so despair further.
You might say that most people are more or less fine with who they are and manage to get along, even if now and then they have a tiny panic over some small flaw that they cure by doing something they enjoy or by talking with friends and forgetting their problem --- but this is, at least partially, untrue; most people are in despair at not wanting to be themselves, and this shows up in many ways (constantly seeking diversions and gratification, enjoying seeing the pride of others being wounded, fantasizing about being somebody else or about having fantastical qualities, wanting to forget yourself by belonging to somebody else as their lover, being envious of other people, etc.)

>>3797752
oh, and I think it worth bringing up at this point that I don't preclude myself from this judgement.
I'm in despair, which is much of the reason why I'm on 4chan right now.

>>3797752
What philosopher are you blatantly ripping this off of with no actual understanding of what the hell it is you're saying.
You're using despair as a buzzword. You aren't defining it. Most everyone isn't going to have the patience to completely disseminate what ever the hell it is you're talking about.

also, I'm pretty much just repeating this book, so if you want to read it you can probably an ebook online. It's very good.

>>3797759
>What philosopher are you blatantly ripping this off

this one

>>3797436
>tfw destined to have a shitty life

>>3797766
You shouldn't take the philosophies and beliefs from one singular philosopher and completely construct the basis of your life off of that. It's a very sheltered way to live.

Go read some Joseph Campbell.

>>3797783
lol

no one understands that just because you ignore your fate that your fate will magically change. All of the fucking retards on the net now deserve their life for better or worse. Why the fuck do I honestly care what some random jackass thinks here?

Honestly, none of you guys are refined or cultured. You are just a big heap of bullshit and you are destined for nothing. This will be the last time I will ever talk to you I bet. Furthermore, you probably will never amount to anything in life because you waste your time bitching and whining about it and judging others.

Quit judging, quit bitching and quit comparing because you know that the road to greatness is reserved for the great and you do not have what it takes to be great.

>>3797787
>All of the fucking retards on the net
>Honestly, none of you guys are refined or cultured.
>Furthermore, you probably will never amount to anything in life because you waste your time bitching and whining about it and judging others.

OK.

>Quit judging

LOL!

>>3797790
his name is the batman for a reason. Whatever my point is why the hell should I empathize with you?

Fine I'm the biggest god damn judgemental asshole out there and so fucking what? Do you expect me to pity you or sympathize with your lame ass behavior? Hell no, I could care less.

but wait I honestly do I mean just because I use the word I and then string it to an opinion means you got to think concretely about it, why not think a bit more abstractly you fucking idiot?

>>3797793
Be silent and leave, you know it's for the best and is what you intend so stop contradicting yourself and do it.

>>3797799
no, I'm the batman. You can't make me do anything.

>>3797802
Well I can do more than that apparently, I can make you do something you don't even want to do. And I'm barely trying.

>>3797807
quit trying to over intellectualize things, you will never amount to anything great by bullshitting your way to the top. Greatness comes not from imitation but rather from greatness itself. tl;dr quit copying other people bore

>>3797396
>tfw you have built the intrinsic meaning of your life

*fix'd

good for you, you now go live that life with those with whom you built it.

>>3797396 (OP)
>tfw you have built the intrinsic meaning of your life

*fix'd

good for you, you now can go live that life with those with whom you built it.

>>3797783

Struggle on in quiet desperation ;_;

>>3797784
>You shouldn't take the philosophies and beliefs from one singular philosopher and completely construct the basis of your life off of that.

I would if could.