/lit/ - Literature

I can't disagree. Even if I might have made the point differently.

The idea of needing some sort of prescribed gender construct to "define" you is lame.

The point that it is, in actuality, these age-old stereotypes about patriarchal dominance and masculinity that are holding back and punishing contemporary men is a good one. The feelings of powerlessness or emasculation are caused by the breakdown of these stereotypes and ambivalence on the part of people struggling to resolve a new identity without them while still somewhat yearning for them.

British newspapers are a joke. Might as well be reading the latest propaganda North Korea is churning out to their defenseless public.

>>3765145

In comparison to what? american newspapers? lel

>>3765150
>'mur'c'n newspapers

So didn't she just imply in almost every paragraph that the stereotypes are a positive thing, but somehow still ends up thinking it is a bad thing? Does she never wonder why it is that the traditional roles are as they are? That they worked best?

And since when did some random labour MP get to tell me how to live my life?

Oh God is just realized: 'patriarchy' is now being used in the media. Oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck.

>>3765158
>Oh God is just realized: 'patriarchy' is now being used in the media. Oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck.
wowitsfuckingnothing.wav

I predicted all this shit years ago. With the breakdown of monogamy, a significant portion of men are left mateless and directionless. This is because women are naturally hypergamous and polygynous. The latest census data must have been really shocking if even card carrying feminists are starting to take note of the problems facing modern men. Compared to women, we're undereducated, underemployed, undersexed and killing ourselves at an unprecedented rate -- yet still popularly portrayed as oppressors. Some patriarchy, huh?

>>3765165
I have it listed in my mind as in the lexicon of tumblr feminists only, so it being used in the public media makes it seem (to me) that they are influencing the mainstream.

oh gee, another victimhood cult

can't get enough of those

>>3765172
>I have it listed in my mind as in the lexicon of tumblr feminists only
so you're a retard? good to know

>>3765158

Its a comment article, what did you expect? discourse analysis?

>>3765141

True, I would argue it is impossible for us to move beyond gender constructs in contemporary society. The question is more a case is how you define them.

So I ask you /lit/ how do you define yourself as a man? Can you do it without reference to age-old patriarchal stereotypes?

>>3765172
dumblr whales are just indoctrinated idiots. they're not the enemy. the whole feminist institution is basically committed to gender warfare. it has no place in the 21st century. any reasonable, critically thinking person should drop the feminist banner like it's hot and realign as an 'egalitarian' or something instead.

>>3765184
>it has no place in the 21st century. any reasonable, critically thinking person should drop the feminist banner like it's hot and realign as an 'egalitarian' or something instead.
LOL, yeah, right, 21st century is about honesty and peace and love and shit. Not exploitation of the gullible and self-aggrandizement. Get a load of this guy.

>>3765181
I have only heard them use it, so please explain why it is retarded for me to reach the conclusion I did.

>>3765182
No, but some pretext of making some sense would be nice.

>>3765182
Stoic, "breadwinner", leader, self-reliant


>>3765189
Or rather, claiming who is the biggest victim here.

>>3765171

>men are lonely and undersexed
>women are over sexed polygamists
>each is 50% of the population
>dat logic

Does she ever actually tell us what she thinks masculinity is all about in her opinion, did I miss that part? Or is her point that true masculinity is about not conforming to what we think masculinity is?

>>3765193
>Or rather, claiming who is the biggest victim here.
Pfffft, so what. People get killed to have their monies taken and voices silenced. Playing little vitimhood games isn't shit in comparison.

>>3765196
While I do not know how true it is, a smaller proportion of men having sex with a larger proportion of women is a statistical possibility.

I need more manly pursuits. I think the only manly thing I do is take walks in parks and woods and sometimes go offtrail.
Watching sports is stupid. Worshipping cars is dumb. Playing video games is for children. What do manly guys do that isn't stupid and an entire waste of time?

>>3765193

>without tiered patriarchal tropes
>bread winner

>>3765203
Hunting, reading (this is fucking /lit/), walking/hiking, camping

>>3765205
When did I claim to be without tiered patriarchal tropes?

>>3765193
maybe you should try and get out of your basement once in a while if tumblr is your only source of "feminism"

>>3765203

thatsthepoint.jpg

>>3765189
my point is that here in the first world there are no longer any institution barriers against women. in fact, our education systems are proven to give an advantage to girls and positive discrimination in universities and the professional world is rife. yet feminists still bandy outdated and outright doctored statistics in pursuit of gaining even more social advantages. it's malicious and it's negatively affecting our boys, as the most recent statistics show. reasonable and intelligent people should be redirecting their gaze towards promoting harmony and real equality between the sexes rather than continuing this atmosphere of hostility. tangible institutional oppression is gone, now we need to adjust to that.

>>3765196
Do you understand what polygyny is, you moron?

>>3765203
Hunt shit, it's delicious.
Build civilizations.
Destroy civilizations.
Fuck women.

War is like the ultimate man's passtime. You get to shoot at shit, hang with your friends, rape women as you plunder cities, etc.

>tfw you'll never be a roman legionnaire enjoying the spoils of a newly sacked city

>>3765210
and how does your snarky remark dismiss the validity of tumblr are a representative of feminism, faggot? see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil

>>3765207
I said not stupid. Killing animals to amuse yourself falls under the stupid category.

>>3765214

I don't think you understand the term institutional barriers.

>>3765210
While I admit getting it from tumblr is a bad idea, it does seem to be where most of the nuts come from. Also>>3765219


Hell, there was even something about "which type of feminist are you" in last weekends times, so perhaps I don't get it all from there after all. It seems to have well permeated most newspapers, bar the torygraph.

>>3765221
I cook them and eat them afterwards. Still not high brow enough for you?

>>3765217
No. Get your heteronormative definition of manliness out of my face, damn heteroscum.

>>3765214
And my point is why do you think rational arguments matter here, where they definitely don't matter in any other political issue? Why single out and criticize the sociopathy of feminists when there are countless other groups that do the same?

First world problems...

>>3765228
In the 3rd world, they have proper feminism, where they are trying to end domestic violence.

>>3765141
Do even have a penis?

>>3765150
>implying americans have newspapers

they put excerpts at the bottom of our french fry containers.

>>3765224
>>3765219
You both are retards. Please don't post about feminism until you're willing to let go of the convenient strawman you enjoy to make out of the feminism you find from tumblr.

>>3765242
>didn't even bother to read

>>3765222
women are not institutionally disadvantaged any more. the wage gap has been eradicated (though feminists often still cite figures from the '80s and '90s) and there is nothing preventing women from climbing the professional ladder any more. feminism at this point is in overkill mode, which is really harming men, as the latest data shows.

>>3765141
>The idea of needing some sort of prescribed gender construct to "define" you is lame.
This. It's like nationalism, a cheap ego boost and identity construct for weaklings.

Tired of hearing what women, trannies, and feminine gays think men should be like. It's like listening to self-described "nice guys" talk about women. People who hate something don't get to decide what it should be.

>>3765242
take your meds, kid

Lifting, Greek ideal nigga

>>3765251
none of those groups hate men. they hate being victimized by men hence get to decide how to change the behaviour of men to stop that oppression. enjoy your fake victimhood.

>>3765233
this.also.happens.in.the.first.world.
>which is what makes these discussions about feminism on her so incredibly frustrating
>>3765216
polyandry is where its at..
>lets start la commune y'all

>>3765246
>nothing preventing women from climbing the professional ladder
glass ceiling does

>>3765261
>all dose generalisations

>>3765261

Yeah, and nice guys don't hate women. They just hate being victimised by evil bitches who only go for jerks.

Take it elsewhere, Tumblrina.

Honestly , I can't take woman seriously. Have nothing against them though.

>>3765247
Actually, society having expectations of citizens is a good thing. So while >muh country better than yours is bad, a strong culture is not. The same applies to gender roles.

>>3765262
Yes, but I must admit most of what I see (and I know this is a bad excuse) is not of the actuallysomethingthatneedsworryingabout tier, as domestic violence is.

>>3765269
how do you make up so stupid an analogy of nice guys being "victimized" by people not wanting to date them? damn you /pol/tards take stupidity to a new level

>>3765274

It's like you don't even understand sarcasm. Are you (trigger warning: ableism) autistic?

>>3765276
> (trigger warning: ableism)
Good one, anon. Got me good.

>>3765210
My source of feminism is Daly, Dworkin, Solanas, Gerhardt, Steinem, etc. The women who wrote the feminist manifestos and lectured to impressionable girls at university, basically the women who set the agenda for all subsequent feminism. Man haters, all of them.

>>3765273
I don't think you grasp that good/bad thingie. Simply stating something is either is ridiculous. Do I really have to explain why?

>>3765276
>post a stupid, get called out on it
>I was just being sarcastic

>>3765264
it doesn't exist any more. it's a chimera used to wheedle more social advantages for women.

>>3765287

>It's like listening to self-described "nice guys" talk about women

So desperate

>>3765284
>is either is ridiculous
Please, do explain.

>>3765273
isn't it funny that something that doesn't affect you ever in your life by virtue of being a man is actuallysomethingthatneedsworryingabout?

Stop with this stupid argument already.

>>3765290
where's the sarcasm in that when self-described nice guys bitch about women left and right?

comedy gold sources for feminism:
>tumblr
>freethoughtblogs
>skepchick
>Atheism+ forums
>youtubers like Sarkeesian or ThosePeskyDames
>others

so don't you dare fuckers say I base my opinon on just tumblr

>>3765298
why not base it off a book

>>3765298
don't forget jezebel

>>3765291
Well I'm not interested in your personal values, and simply their existence isn't going to persuade me either way. You stating them is pointless from my point of view.

>>3765301
The same reason you will not base my opinon of communism on the works of Marx and Engels but on the leadership of the USSR, NK, Cold War era China and central Europe, etc.

>>3765297

That was a contextual clue that ought to have led you to a reinterpretation of my position re. their "victimisation" as it compares "nice guys" to something I quite obviously see in a negative light

>>3765290
its more like listening to stock brokers complain about their wives

>>3765292
>as domestic violence is
My point was that is was something that needn't to be worried about. Sorry for the confusion.


>>3765307
I really do not understand you now. You say this is bad, I say this is good. You tell me it is not, I ask why, then you tell me that me stating personal values will not change your opinion.

Help me out here, eh?

>>3765289

>2013
> believing that we live in a totally gender equal society

I wish it were true anon, but it ain't so, try leaving the white middle class male bubble sometime

>>3765320
My point is all of the problems women face is "something that needn't to be worried about" by virtue of you being a man. So your opinion on what women "need to be worried about" is pretty worthless.

Women should check their privilege. And I don't like how feminists are taking the latest data that shows how disadvantaged men are in many ways and twisting it to suit their own agenda. "Men are unhappier than women? Men are under-performing in school and not being attaining higher education? Men are more likely to be unemployed and homeless? The patriarchy strikes again! Support feminism! Death to masculinity!"

>>3765228
Just because the problem is limited to first world doesn't invalidate it. This phrase that everybody uses is so meaningless and stupid.

>>3765320
You trollin' me bro? Maybe you have a fundamentalist background that makes it diffucult for you, but values are like assholes, everyone has one. Why the fuck would you state your values, it's not like your interlocutor doesn't realize you have them. Stating something is bad or good is not an argument, it is absolutely redundant.

>>3765326
Oh ok, that's fair enough. Though it does also apply to OP's article.

>>3765323
>I wish it were true anon
Why would you ever wish that? All you are doing is giving group for nothing. You people are so naive.

>>3765327
how does supporting feminism lead to or affect the happiness of men, their suicide rates, their underperformance in education, homelessness?

>>3765338
giving ground*
i need rest

>>3765323
Provide some figures or something or I'm just going to assume that you're clinging onto your victim complex because you don't want to relinquish any of the social advantages women have in today's society.

>>3765331
You made a statement, saying what you thought, I made one, saying that I thought about what you thought. It is now your turn to make a reply to what you think of what I said.

This problem is meaningless and useless. Hell, just man the fuck up.

>>3765336
I didn't say it did. That was the opposite of what I said. I complained that feminists like Diane Abbott and Laurie Penny were taking statistics that show men are disadvantaged and somehow twisting and misrepresenting them to make it into another feminist issue about "hyper-masculinity" and other misandrist buzzwords. However, it is clear that the educational system privileges girl over boys and this is probably the source of some of these problems in the male community.

the idea of social justice boggles my mind
so there is a group that demand something from you
not only you aren't getting anything in exchange but even if you comply you will be antagonzied forever and your status of an antagonist exploited further

why the fuck would you EVER take part in such a deal?

the 'nice guys' are legit fucking retarded

>>3765364
I don't think you know what SJ means

>>3765357
Here's a part of the problem right here.

Guy's who cares? I hate feeling pressured to act masculine. By any standard, I'm either equally feminine and masculine or I lean towards femininity. Masculinity sucks and the idea that it's a requirement for society to work smoothly seems baseless. One can perform the required tasks of their gender without conforming to the image.

>>3765369
enlighten me

>>3765372
How do you define "the tasks of the genders", then?

>not all men WANT to be breadwinners!

Bourgeois feminism is the worst. Oh my god.

>>3765338
>>3765341
>>3765364

Ayn Rand readers spotted.

It's ok, I understand how rough it is for your brilliance to be constantly stifled by middle school.

>>3765372
Yeah, who cares about suicide rates and educational under-performance and underemployment and homelessness and medical neglect and judicial prejudice? Men deserve it for their brutish patriarchal ways!

>>3765377
Having kids. Possibly harsh manual labor jobs that women as they are aren't capable of performing, though I suppose with the advancements in robotics that this may become obsolete.

>>3765359
>>3765348
>>3765375
>>3765377

>>3765359
I don't know why the idea that patriarchy can hurt men is so oblivious to you. Why are men too proud to go to homeless shelters? Why don't men seek help for mental illness instead of suffering in silence? Why can't men learn to share their emotions with others more often? etc etc. Dismantling allows men to act in ways, maybe 'feminine' like seeking assistance, that are beneficial to themselves instead of "manning up" or whatever bull.

>>3765391
wrong

did I demolish your worldview now, runt?

>>3765396
None of that has anything to do with whether or not someone behaves in a way stereotypical of their gender. I'm saying as a man, I dislike the expectation that I'm suppose to act in accordance with societies standard of manliness.

>>3765383
I don't want to be a breadwinner m8. Fuck that shit.

>>3765383

Laurie Penny is one of those "Prostitution is a choice because it's my body!" types.

Despicable.

>>3765400
the thing is, there is no 'patriarchy'

bundling up tons of different issues, not necessarily directed connected, under a single buzzword meme doesn't shape reality

>>3765377

Well that's the question isn't it, how do you define masculinity without resorting to patriarchy?

What OP's article is highlighting is that many cannot move beyond these outdated ideals nor can they fulfill them. As a result we get angry, disenfranchised and, dare I say it emasculated, young men.

>>3765371
Why is that? Beeing a man is best thing ever. Why would you even feel pressure about it? IMO dont giving a fuck is a part of being manly.

>>3765409

Work is one of the most enriching experiences for all people.

>>3765416
>the thing is, there is no 'patriarchy'
lol

>>3765421
Did your boss require you to memorize that?

I want a woman to dominate me. I'm shy. How else am I supposed to survive as a shy male?

>>3765417
the solution is simple
you guys give too much power to language, you mistake the map for the territory

it doesn't matter AT ALL that you purposefully bundle a bunch of complex real life issues under one banner

defining masculinity is useless and so is defining patriarchy

those labels are tools in power games and political bickering, not accurate description of reality

>>3765417
Really? Only there was another articles saying how the result was "hyper-masculinity" (if anyone could find it, I would be obliged).

>many cannot move beyond these outdated ideals nor can they fulfill them
But why are they outdated? What is wrong with them? What is wrong for treating biologically different genders differently?

>>3765427
Not the guy, but he's right, seeing an end result is worth it.

>>3765409

Most people don't want to be breadwinners, but if they don't work, they can't pay the rent. Laurie Penny's bourgeois upbringing is pretty obvious in this article, where she thinks that work is just a fun hobby for people and that if men don't want to work they don't have to.

>>3765426
off to >>>/x/ you go

>>3765427

It's the basis of Marxism m80

>>3765292
>isn't it funny that something that doesn't affect you ever in your life by virtue of being a man is actuallysomethingthatneedsworryingabout?

Seriously? Men make up almost half of all victims of domestic violence, and unlike women, they don't have shelters, support organisations, or a sympathetic police force and justice system to help them deal with it. If anything it's a bigger problem for men than women.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

>>3765441
you belong on >>>/pol/

>>3765406
Those are the issues at hand, though. Do you think Laurie Penny and Diane Abbott's diatribes about "hyper-masculinity" are sincere attempts to address and correct those issues, or merely feminist spin?

>>3765438
>Not the guy, but he's right, seeing an end result is worth it.
True, but most jobs nowadays don't allow the worker to see the fruits of his own labor. Most workers get paid the same whether they work their ass off or slack off.

>>3765440
But if the woman wants to work, then why shouldn't we be fine with that? I'd be more than happy to be a stay-at-home dad.

>>3765452
not really, I am a liberal voting social democrat

and you, dear moron, are a conspiracy theorist nutcase

>>>/x/

>>3765438
>What is wrong for treating biologically different genders differently?
learn what the difference between gender and sex is, pick up a book on feminism, and then come back

>>3765438

>biological
>gender

pick one

>>3765150
>>3765151

I don't think you've read any American newspaper.

>>3765461

We must work because there is work to be done. We owe it to our fellow men and women. To each according to his ability.

>>3765452
>>3765441
can we not resort to "please fuck off"

>>3765406
They were there to ensure society functioned well. That is what they are there for.

>>3765463
>>3765464
I used gender instead of sex, a slip of the tongue and you have my apologies. Now re-read my statement.

>>3765203

>>3765402

More the fact that it is beyond droll to argue with anyone who does not think that equality is a worthwhile political pursuit. Now we can argue what equality is and how it can be achieved, those are the questions around which almost all political philosophy is structured, but disregarding the equality altogether is sign that you haven't really engaged with the concept, even at the most banal and superficial level.

>>3765462
yea, patriarchy is a conspiracy theory. women are oppressing themselves. amirite?

>>3765472
yea, bilderbergers and space reptilians are a conspiracy theory. poor people are oppressing themselves. amirite?

>>3765400
OK, but this atmosphere of anti-masculine hostility that is being cultivated by feminists is more harmful to men, especially young boys in the school system. Men should be free to act as masculine or unmasculine as they feel -- that I agree with wholeheartedly -- but I don't think this is the position that feminists are pursuing in praxis.

>>3765471
what does sex and cultural creations of what it means to be a man and women in today's society have to do with one another?

>>3765472
Women are not oppressed at all, fuckwit. At least, not any more than men are.

lol

>>3765481
what does it mean to be free to act as "masculine" as you want and how do you do it without hurting women and sexual minorities?

>>3765470
How cutely capitalist. Most work doesn't really have to be done, and most industries were unnecessary from the very start. I don't owe anything to anyone. If I work, it's to maintain my own standard of living. If my wife/girlfriend is willing to do it for me, then what is the problem?

>>3765472
>women are oppressing themselves. amirite

The hilarious thing is that they are. If people want to feel oppressed, they're going to find a way to feel oppressed, regardless of reality.

>>3765494
>>3765486
>>3765479
>>>/pol/

>get on point tip

>>3765499

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

>>3765491
Um, how exactly does masculinity hurt women and gays? Actually, I find that insinuation sexist and misandrist.

>>3765485
Society created gender roles because each sex performed best in a specific way.
The reason we did not have females fighting in wars is because they are not as good at it as males, for example/
Thus, your sex defines your gender role. It makes for a more stable society.

>>3765491
Sorry, is my providing you with a home and care too oppressive for the sexual minorities?

>>3765499
yeah, send a liberal social democrat to /pol/, you are grasping for straws you fucking tool

>>>/x/

>>3765499
>feminist debating skills

>>3765481

You miss the point, it isn't anti-masculine but rather that they are taking issue with the definition of masculinity. They are not arguing against masculinity per se, but rather for one that is, in their eyes, not so toxic.

>>3765509
domestic violence, rape, gaybashing, the list could go on...

>>3765517
see >>3765509

>>3765517
And messing up a generation of young boys in the process, as the latest statistics would indicate.

>>3765524
gaybashing?

>>3765513

>this is how it has always been done
>so this is the best possible way that it can be done

please Confucius impart more of you wisdom to us

>>3765524
>it is masculine to beat your wife
Sorry, but what the fuck?
>it is masculine to rape
Sorry, but what the fuck?

You think this is what people who want to be masculine want?

>>3765529
straight people beating up gay men because they don't live up to their expectations of masculinity and what a man should be?

>>3765524
I wouldn't define any of those activities as a component or natural result of masculinity and I think it's sexist to claim that they are. Also, those things are all actually illegal you know; they are not being advocated by anyone.

>>3765534
you forgot gaybashing or is it masculine to gaybash?

>>3765530
The pressure to act masculine is what's messing them up, not the repression of their masculinity. If everyone could act as masculine or feminine as they wanted without sanctions, the problem would be near eliminated and most people would end up somewhere towards the middle of the continuum.

>>3765517
Who gave these people the right to define what masculinity should be?

>>3765539
Being gay does not equal being not masculine. You would insult many gays with that one.

>>3765533
>because they are not as good at the other sex as doing xyz
>because it has always been this way

yeah, naw

>>3765541
Shit, so I did. While I would say beating them up is a bad thing, society DOES make you conform to norms, as it should. See slut shaming as similar.
Way to avoid the rest of it, though.

>>3765537
this is how your posts looks like to other people:
>a huge chunk of human population (I'd wager there are about 6 billion straight people) on every possible occassion, on a spot, beat up gay males because of the single reason I hereby state:

you are fucking retarded and I despise you wholeheartedly

this is why no one takes you seriously, this is why they laugh at you beind your back

It feels good to have a strong sense of identity and knowing yourself well enough to not desire or need to be labelled.

Individualism isn't cool enough for you guys anymore? muh society muh evola muh roles muh capitalism

>>3765530
>you aren’t a person, just a statistic
fuck you

and fuck those kids for needing other people to figure out who they are for them,

>>3765534
>>3765525
>>3765539

Well their point would be that traditional masculinity promotes strength and dominance among other things which often result in violence, admittedly mostly to other young men, the point being masculinity does not promote violence itself, but that masculine traits often responsible for violence and aggression.

>>3765544
You're full of shit. "Men have the right to act as masculine as they want -- as long as it's my personal definition of masculinity." That's oppression, and it is harming our boys. They are being neglected and mistreated in current school systems and being messed up for life, but it's OK because at least the women and gay are now safe from the passive tyranny of manliness?

>>3765557

>>3765539
whether or not they're being advocated by straight men, or they're not part of the official "how to be masculine 101 handbook", they still happen daily and need to stop.
rape happens because men think they own a woman's body. domestic violence happens to keep women "in their place". gaybashing occurs when gay men (or women) aren't seen to fit the norms of their gender because they fuck the wrong one.
these are all functions of masculinity being used to oppress another group. if you can find a way to be masculine without hurting women or sexual minorities, then go ahead and do it, no one's stopping you, least of all feminists.

>>3765562
Wow, you're special aren't you? Shouldn't you be on /mlp/ with the rest of the 'differently abled'?

>>3765557
You are correct, my friend.

>>3765565
>as long as it's my personal definition of masculinity.
I didn't say this. You said this. I'm fine with a boy choosing to act masculine, as long as it's his own choice, and he's not expected to by peers/parents/advertisers.

You're now aware that the Men's Rights Movement only wants the same liberation for males from outdated social norms that Feminism afforded females, and that Feminism is actively fighting it only because most of their "liberation" for women was built at the expense of males and it would all crumble if males weren't still trapped in outdated social constructs.

Men still pay all the taxes. Men pull less taxpayer money. Women initiate 75% of all divorces, mostly no-fault. Men do all the dangerous jobs. They're 80+% of workplace injuries and 90+% of workplace deaths. A majority of the homeless. 4 times more likely to kill themselves. The majority of victims of assault, robbery, murder, domestic violence, and in America, rape. The list goes on from there.

To begin addressing that you have to start cutting into the privileges of the middle and upper class white women that compose Feminism. For example, they have less money to spend on womens-only shelters if men's shelters are allowed. (The owner of the ONLY men's shelter in Canada recently killed himself after the government mocked him, denied him money, and he had to sell his house/shelter. He was himself a victim of DV at the hands of an abusive wife.)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/28/earl-silverman-who-ran-mens-safe-house-dies-in-apparent-suicide/

>>3765553
unfortunately the majority of straight people think otherwise

>>3765575
I prefer real life ponies.
both stallions and mares

mhm stallion cock
UNLOAD

>>3765570
>they still happen daily and need to stop.

That's what the police are for.

>domestic violence happens to keep women "in their place"

Men suffer domestic violence just as much as women.

>these are all functions of masculinity being used to oppress another group.

So your response to oppression is oppression. Great.

>>3765545

Who has a right to define anything? Every definition is a battle ground yadda, yadda, yadda Foucault ect ...

>>3765554
>society DOES make you conform to norms, as it should.
why? this is pretty much the textbook definition of oppression. forcing gay people to "look and fit" how they "should" based on a heternormative ideal is idiotic and hurtful and pretty much the cause of the abnormally high suicide rates amongst the lgbt.

>>3765582
Many gays dont like feminine man.

>>3765570
>rape happens because men think they own a woman's body.
why do you share your shitty opinions when you are clearly not qualified to express them?

The males here should probably be more pissed off that we're being defined by a female writer than anything she says.

>>3765448
Indeed. And because they're a majority of ever OTHER kind of violence as well.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gender-symmetry-with-gramham-Kevan-Method%208-.pdf
Woops, turns out Feminists in academia actively distort and cover up findings, and kill the careers of anyone who doesn't do the same to perpetuate the myth that women can only be victims and men are always the abusers.

Look up Erin Pizzey, too. Founded the first women's shelter IN THE WORLD. Noticed her women were just as bad as the men, and often the initiators of abuse. Tried to talk about it. Got ran out of her own shelter, stricken from its history, harassed and threatened, and then eventually fled the country after the family pet was killed. She returned a few years later to sell a book and Feminists were waiting for her and she got worse treatment than ever before from them.

my boat isn't a she

he's a real man's man


let me show you his anchor

>>3765581

>>>/pol/

fuck off and don't come back.

>>3765578
Well, the school system is unfortunately not as liberal minded as you. Boys are being systemically emasculated in school and it's obviously causing a lot of problems. The latest census results must be really alarming if the institutional disadvantages that men face are finally gaining some mainstream media attention.

>>3765570
Tell me are you woman or troll?

>>3765592
good thing gay men don't gaybash other gay men for being feminine. that's a straight thing.

>>3765581
dude MRAs are as retarded as feminists
see the light

>>3765603
>/pol/
>in favour of such a thing as a "men's shelter"

yeah no

>>3765587
yes. saying you can't oppress other people is oppression. great logic there. all that sexism and heterophobia you must face is such a travesty

>>3765601
abuse is bad. whether you're a boy or a girl.
and at the same time
>fuck 'yer MRA

>>3765605
their fault for being a bunch of pussies and doing what they are told

>>3765196
Historically 80% of women reproduced but only 40% of men did.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=912673
http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm

Because females care mostly about status, fewer men get more women because a man that's been "pre-selected" by other women is more likely to then get access to other women. It's a notorious fact these days that women are more attracted to men that're married or otherwise spoken for.

>>3765606
are you a ribbit MRA?

>>3765616
the fuck is that doing on hacker news?

>muh evo psych
>muh pop culture
>muh average person and how they do things

>>3765605
It must be drastically different from when I was in school during the 2000's, because we were always encouraged to perform manly activities while being taunted or playfully made fun of by teachers if we wanted to do something else.

>>3765616
>http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm

It's always this fucking link and that guy.

>>3765182
>So I ask you /lit/ how do you define yourself as a man? Can you do it without reference to age-old patriarchal stereotypes?
A man is an individual of the species H. sapiens which has one X and one Y chromosome.

I actually think it's pathetic for someone to need a "gender stereotype" to tell them how to live. Absolutely pathetic. I really want the tone of disgust with which I would be speaking to be apparent, so I'm going to explicitly state it (www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBhR4QcBtE). We all need to find our own morals to live by. I'd be willing to bet that most of us would settle upon something very similar (although whether that's because of social conditioning and lack of ingenuity, or nature, I don't know; but I'm strongly inclined to the former).

>>3765603
/pol/ is Traditionalist. That's just as bad as Feminism. It's the same male disposability theme.

>>3765611
I'm not an MRA. I'm just saying that the MRA isn't a regressive movement. It doesn't want to "go back" to pre-Feminist times. Because it thinks that world was just as anti-male as Feminism is.

What the MRM wants is for men to be freed from outdated social constructs. Feminism USED to claim it wanted this for men as well! That "Patriarchy harmed men too"!
And then when it came time to show their support and help men free themselves from archaic bullshit they turned on them and declared men's rights to be misogynist.

>>3765625
You talkin shit about muh Baumeister, son?
Are you not aware that Willpower is the single best non-fiction book in a generation?

>>3765613
Your logic:
>some men commit crimes against women and gays
>therefore all men should be subject to repressive social conditioning from a young age

You are a fascist. We already have measures in place to prevent gay bashing and rape: it's called the police. Crime is not something that can be totally eradicated without BNW style totalitarianism.

>>3765634
>muh pop-psychology
>muh psychology
>muh evolutionary psychology
>muh pseudo-science in general

>Baumeister
Notice that's a jewish last name? you shabbos goy

>>3765619
No, i am man, just answer honestly. No offense meant

>>3765628

This guy gets it.

>>3765635
>not being forced to conform to gender norms
>repressive social conditioning
lol, what kind of logic is this

>We already have measures in place to prevent gay bashing and rape
how stupid are you? how does the police prevent rape and gaybashing? all they can do is try and catch the bastards who did it if they can even do that.
you know what prevents people raping and attacking gay men? teaching them not to be sexist, homophobic douchebags. if that's your example of a BNW style totalitarianism, then sign me up.

The arguments from feminists and feminist sympathisers ITT have been really scary. There seems to be a sociopathic lack of sympathy for men endemic in this ideology, as well as a dependence on victimhood as a sort of emotional weapon.

>>3765640
I am a man as well.

>>3765628
You think it's pathetic that people should need something to tell them how to live and say that we all need to find our own morals to live by... and then you call people who don't choose to live the way you do pathetic, almost as if you think people should let you tell them how to live.

who gives a shit

fuck people

kill them all

>>3765645
You said you advocated the outright eradication of masculinity because you felt it was inherently dangerous. It would take flat out mass Pavlovian conditioning to achieve this aim. You're insane.

The criminal system is preventative because, guess what, people generally don't want to go to jail.

>>3765628

But are there not some ways in which you differentiate yourself from those of the other sex? That are unique to you as a male, of how you live your life with a set of balls? What about how others will try to pin gender on you? As you say you settle on something very similar to the status quo, are you not just finding a clever dodge to the question?

>>3765661
>You said you advocated the outright eradication of masculinity because you felt it was inherently dangerous.
lmao. where has that been said?

>>3765645
You honestly scare me. I think you should consider taking a step back and re-evaluating your beliefs. Every fascist fuck in history has used the same logic to justify their actions.

>>3765651
That's because it's unironically Cultural Marxism. It relies on all the same tricks and foils. An oppressor class. And a victim class.
In this case, men and women.

The best rundown I've ever seen on the issue:
http://youtu.be/2LkYDpQQVJ0

>>3765676
you're an idiot. allowing people to be more free in how they express themselves or their gender is fascist as fuck? stick to /pol/ please. I pray I never have to deal with a moron as stupid as you IRL.
and here's what I said re masculinity:
> if you can find a way to be masculine without hurting women or sexual minorities, then go ahead and do it, no one's stopping you, least of all feminists.

>>3765681
>cultural marxism
>girlwriteswhat

HA! a /pol/ rat is among us!

>>3765645
>implying woman would want any of it
Woman wants to be a woman, to be feminine

>>3765681

> dismissing marxism because marxism

Could you be even more intellectually cackhanded

>>3765620
evolutionary psychology is actual science, deal with it you ignorant twat

and, the most ironic thing of all, feminist theory is not science at all

>>3765689
>m-muh broad, prejudicial negative generalizations
Marxism is hate speech. Even today, in the era of Occupy Wall Street, and even as a Social Democrat myself, I can admit there are deep ethical problems in Marxism.

>>3765685
fuck off homo

>>3765700
>>>/b/

>>3765690
Fuck you, evolutionary psychology is unfalsifiable bullshit.

"just so" stories etc

and i didn't mention anything about feminism, retard

>muh steven pinker
>muh pop-psych

>>3765683

ITT people failing to understand this simple point

>find a way to be masculine without needing to oppress women or sexual minorities

>>3765695
I doubt you even know what "marxism" is

>democrat
>aligning yourself to any of the parties

>>3765655
That's unavoidable. It's like telling someone to think for themselves. In telling them that, you make it impossible for them to do so: they can either choose to ignore your advice and not think for themselves, or choose to--on your advice--begin thinking for themselves, which means they aren't thinking for themselves because they're only doing it because you told them to. It's a paradox. At any rate, I'm not advocating people should not listen to any one else---on the contrary, I think people should listen to as many different perspectives as possible---I'm advocating that people recognise the fallacies and prejudices that plague most "socially accepted" thought (not to mention the thoughts of every single philosopher ever---it's unavoidable, really, but at least make an effort; if nothing else, your mind will be at peace when you stop consciously trying to behave in this way or that because it's "the correct way").

>>3765665
I was making a joke, giving the textbook definition of the word instead of answering the deeper question. So, yes, a "clever dodge".

My point in the second paragraph was that people should stop trying to shoehorn themselves into one pole or other of this "man" and "woman" dichotomy. I want people to live how they want to live, with no thought given to whether they're behaving in a masculine or feminine way. The sexual poles will come naturally due to the influence of hormones and gender differences in brain structure.

>>3765701
>muh gender roles
>>>/pol/

>>3765700
You are a funny guy. Tell me did you ever fuck a woman?

>>3765695

>marxism is hate speech
>social democrat
>I don't think word means what you think it means

>>3765684
you know absolutely jack shit about her if you think she shares any beliefs with /pol/

>>3765706
>implying Social Democrat is a part in America and not the most extreme leftism people can conceive of.

>>3765683
Here is Hitler's justification for youth indoctrination programs:
>“These boys and girls enter our organizations [at] ten years of age, and often for the first time get a little fresh air; after four years of the Young Folk they go on to the Hitler Youth, where we have them for another four years . . . And even if they are still not complete National Socialists, they go to Labor Service and are smoothed out there for another six, seven months . . . And whatever class consciousness or social status might still be left . . . the Wehrmacht [German armed forces] will take care of that.”
--Adolf Hitler (1938)

All in the name of equality. You are literally using the same logic as Hitler to justify "teaching [males] not to be sexist, homophobic douchebags." Your language is just more innocuous.

I doubt even the most "masculine" among you faggots would survive overnight in a warzone in some shit hole country.

WE ARE ALPHA MALES! HEAR US ROARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>oh god girls r so gross don’t touch my virginity

>>3765719
and you would?

>>3765719
Good thing there's no viable reason why anyone should or would have to spend the night in a warzone in some shithole country.

P.S. Some fraud ideas about "terrorism" isn't a viable reason.

>>3765719
If I had time to prepare, I could. I'm certain that I have the mental strength for it, but I'm in pretty bad shape because I don't care for exercise. Maybe my mind in an athlete's body or something.

>>3765711
>woman
>woman
>woman
fuck off normalfag

>my pathetic life revolves around sex
>you

>>3765719
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>>3765726
post the bodies of /fit/ feeling kinda horny

>>3765716
Bullshit, and I've seen her channel/vids linked plenty of times on /pol/

>>3765707

This a million times this.

>/lit/

>>3765718
lol. I see we've passed Godwin's Law. end of thread

>>3765707
>muh determinism

>>3765732
>I'm certain that I have the mental strength for it
what makes you say that?

>>3765690
I recognize you. We were arguing on a certain imageboard not long ago and I've never gotten around to phrasing my reply.

Evo-psych is notorious in the scientific community for being a source of unverifiable "just-so" stories made to fit current ideas and nothing else. Even going by the argument in the paper you've linked, it isn't readily apparent that feminism should necessarily follow as a negative development as it increases selection pressures on males to innovate. Neither does it necessarily follow that the heterosexual mode of family arrangement is even the most practical given productive activity derives from the factory. The devolution of the family unit is only the latest in a longrunning trend of decentralization from kin-tribal units, and would not be happening if pressures did not exist propelling it in this direction.

Feminist theory is irrelevant

>>3765745
OH HERE COMES THIS TOUGH GUY

HE HAS YOU FIGURED OUT

DON'T FUCK WITH HIM MAN

HE'S A
>ALPHA MALE

>>3765738
/pol/ also links to feminist videos and tumblr blogs

just FYI, you brainless turd

you know nothing about her

>>3765750
>mad that i insulted his ugly youtube girlfriend

>>3765746
nah faggot, if you think you can effectively differentiate between anons you are more retarded than I thought

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ALPHA MALES!

FUCKIN WOMEN WE DON'T NEED YOU

YEAHHHHHHH LIFT IT BRO LIFT IT! HEAVIER! HARDER!

>>3765746
>Even going by the argument in the paper you've linked, it isn't readily apparent that feminism should necessarily follow as a negative development as it increases selection pressures on males to innovate.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120530172011.htm

You don't say?

>>3765751
keep digging, rock bottom is not enough for you yet, subhuman scum

>>3765743
Godwin's Law does not apply to any mention of Hitler.

>>3765757
To elaborate: Some think Feminism is just the natural progression of a paradigm core to our species for over 100,000 years that began with female mate selectivity. That Traditionalism and all similar systems up to now, including Feminism, are all a resulting gynocentrism from this development.

Here's a good rundown, but it's a rather long playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJOWMtQBIv1sFM-u8FIKZxK0_AkoBzeCV

The tl;dr moral of the story is that the progressive approach to to not let others define you, and not to define your self worth based on the opinions of others.
And it's aimed at men because they're traditionally judged by their deeds while women are imbued with innate worth so long as they can carry a child.

If you only watch one part of the playlist, make it the Janissary video.

>>3765746
>>3765757
>selection pressure
>it makes sense!
>muh mathematical modelling
>it makes sense!

evo psych in a nutshell

>>3765764
>he thinks evolution stops at the neck!

>>3765763
bullshit pseudo-science!

>it makes sense!

i don't give a shit i'll judge everybody

>look at me i got society figured out!
>muh random youtube whore advocating my beliefs
>muh rabbit hole
>muh redpill

>muh children

>>3765760
I don't really care if you think I'm Hitler. If I could indoctrinate people so they didn't feel forced to conform to rigid gender rules and not care if women or sexual minorities don't fit them either, then so be it, I'll be the tumblr SJ version of Hitler. Maybe the world needs one.

>>3765763
Woops, and by "judged by their deeds" I mean "Men are traditionally judged by their usefulness to others. Society and women, generally."

>>3765746

This. No one serious in the sciences or social sciences(or arts or whatever I hate this term) would touch evo-psych with a barge pole. It is, with hardly any exceptions, the stuff of academic hacks, "journalists", uninformed populists and those trying to push a political agenda.

Since this is /lit/ I'd recommend reading Genes, Cells and Brains by Hilary Rose and Steven Rosei.

>>3765741
Thanks.

>>3765744
I'm undecided on that one.

>>3765745
I'm highly resistant to stress and somewhat emotionally numb.

>>3765767
>he thinks he can prove it!
>he thinks that you're supposed to align your political beliefs to whatever "evolution" dictates (dawkins actually doesn't support the idea of free markets)

>>3765774
I think mental fortitude and a strong will are more important than being a lazy, emotionally crippled fatass.

>>3765772
So you could drop the God thing but not the cultural part it seems? Gotta use your evolutionary psychology to try to justify it?

Thousands of good Americans died so I can have freedom of speech. That means I can advocate, represent, criticize, and insult any opinion on the face of this Earth.

As a man wiser than me once said

"I disagree with your beliefs, but I'll die for your right to express them"

>>3765774
>I'm highly resistant to stress and somewhat emotionally numb.

Oh wow, your ignorance is showing.
we could be make this into some sort of underground reality tv
it'd be like that ninja show with those white kids wanting to be ninjas

also your original post
>string together what i read elsewhere

>>3765771
with this post you undid and kind of moral highground you so desperately tried to signal, just fyi; and i am not estimating here the truthfulness/falsity of your statements - just your retarded rhetoric

you can't have cake and eat it too

So what are you all arguing about? That man and women should have same rights? That man and women are different? Or what?

>>3765771
> If I could indoctrinate people so they didn't feel forced to conform to rigid gender rules and not care if women or sexual minorities don't fit them either, then so be it, I'll be the tumblr SJ version of Hitler. Maybe the world needs one.

I'm serious. Listen to yourself. Your words are indistinguishable from Hitler's. In a different era, latching on to a different enemy, you would be rounding up Gypsies or administrating a Hitler Youth office. You are a fascist, and thus the enemy of a free and democratic society.

>>3765776
>No one serious in the sciences or social sciences(or arts or whatever I hate this term) would touch evo-psych with a barge pole.
this is untrue and you are an indoctrinated drone

i just came here to discuss literature

go away you filthy plebs

>>3765781
Be more clear, bigot.

>>3765782

>welcome to you first social studies class

>>3765645
Women always want the dick, ALWAYS
>mfw they claim rape to not come off as the huge whores they are

>>3765789
butthurt evo-psych major detected

these male sympathizers do more harm than good.

For example, "men have it harder than women when it comes to meeting members of the opposite sex, because the burden of approaching falls mainly on them and they have to face the possibility of rejection and the anxiety that comes with it".
This is an example of a truth that everybody knows, but everybody should keep quiet about because talking about it only does harm. This opinion leads to a mentality where men feel sorry for themselves because they have to do something so trivial as approach women, it's a "why should I have to something that my cause me harm" mentality, in other words it engenders cowardliness, laziness and recalcitrance. Men are supposed to be proud to carry these burdens, not whine about them constantly.

>>3765798
and wrong again

strike three, you are out

Take this shit to /b/. Shitty post over shitty post. Fuck your izm whatever it maybe, except for individualism and humanism.

>>3765780
I'm not fat or emotionally crippled; though I am lazy, but only because I can afford to be. I'm emotionally numb in the sense that my emotions aren't overbearing.

>>3765783
>we could be make this into some sort of underground reality tv
>it'd be like that ninja show with those white kids wanting to be ninjas
What's that got to do with anything? What I understood from your (I assume) post was that I would be spending a night as a non-combatant caught in a war-torn third world country. I'm sure I have the mental strength to survive that, just not the physical abilities. I'm not one of these fedora-wearing neckbeards who thinks he could fight in an ancient war because he can kill water bottles with a katana. Don't get me wrong; I know I wouldn't last five minutes in actual combat (although, again, that's due to lack of ability, not mental weakness), but that's not the situation that was described.

>also your original post
>>string together what i read elsewhere
What, you're accusing me of plagiarism?

>>3765782
>people criticize sexist people for being sexist
>muhh free speech

>>3765794
everything after that was created by liberal arts majors who needed to justify their degrees

>>3765801
>For example, "men have it harder than women when it comes to meeting members of the opposite sex, because the burden of approaching falls mainly on them and they have to face the possibility of rejection and the anxiety that comes with it".
>This is an example of a truth that everybody knows, but everybody should keep quiet about because talking about it only does harm. This opinion leads to a mentality where men feel sorry for themselves because they have to do something so trivial as approach women, it's a "why should I have to something that my cause me harm" mentality, in other words it engenders cowardliness, laziness and recalcitrance. Men are supposed to be proud to carry these burdens, not whine about them constantly.

>Nobody should talk about letting women out of the kitchen because women who like the kitchen now feel guilty about liking it and women who don't now stir up trouble thinking they should leave.

>>3765802

Tell us the and we'll try not to lel

>>3765808
is there some brainless-SJW equivalent of /pol/?
you definitely belong there

please mods delete this thread

not /lit/

>>3765784
yes. it's my retarded rhetoric that decided to compare myself with Hitler in the first place because I couldn't find any other thing else to say other than OMG COMMIE FASCIST!!11! U HITLER!11

And who would want to have cake and not eat it?

>>3765816
try closing the tab, faggot, it works wonders

>>3765812
>Nobody should talk about letting women out of the kitchen because women who like the kitchen now feel guilty about liking it and women who don't now stir up trouble thinking they should leave.

Exactly, a few discontented people wanting to ruin the order of things for everybody else. This is why we're lacking in traditions and ceremonies these days, because everybody is quick to voice their dissenting, snide, cynical opinion rather than bend the need and pay respect.

>>3765807
so hardcore
total recon badass
>my emotions are numb
> ~ alexander the great

>>3765816

You have a point. But at least the level of discussion hasn't be too atrocious.

>>3765820
So we've decided.
Freedom of speech is bad.

>>3765820
HA, and you know the order of things? Arrogant fool.

And you don't speak for all traditionalists. Stop misusing that term to support your right-wing beliefs.

>>3765786
kay. you keep thinking that you fighting for the freedom to oppress minorities is somehow you fighting for "a free and democratic society"

>>3765808
There's nothing wrong with criticizing sexist people.

There's also nothing wrong with being sexist

>>3765820
>Exactly, a few discontented people wanting to ruin the order of things for everybody else.
lol
I might be anti-feminazis but you just went full retard.

>>3765821
Military service isn't exactly reserved for the elite. I'm pretty sure most people would be able to hack it after training.

>>3765801
Fuck this femminsm shit but woman really have it harder due to their weaker bodies and clouded mind. Only a fool would argue that man and woman are the same.

>>3765820

Just your daily reminder. If your on 4chan you're the one traditionalist and conservatives would be shitting on.

>>3765828
Freedom of speech is a retarded term - the social mores govern what it is acceptable to say in public, you can't go around saying how wonderful it is to masturbate to images of children. The mores govern what is allowed to be said, it's just the mores are more lax in multicultural society so more is allowed to be said and so things appear to be "free".
Freedom of the press is a consistent concept.

>>3765831
>There's also nothing wrong with being sexist
except there is.

>>3765835

>>>/pol/

>>3765838
No there isn't.
The world was a better place before, when women knew their place.

>>3765836
I'm not a traditionalist in the sense that I think the old traditions are necessarily better, but I am a traditionalist in the sense that I think tradition is better than no tradition.

>>3765842
What is their place?

>>3765848
kitchen?

>>3765842
AHAHAHAHA

what a fucking messed up loser

amazing what being a virgin will do to some people

AHAHAHAH once more LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL<wbr>

>>3765830
In response to criticism of the Nazi party:
>kay, you keep thinking that you fighting for the freedom to oppress the working class is somehow you fighting for "a free and democratic society"

See how easy that is?

>>3765851
men make better chefs though. men belong in the kitchen.

>>3765837
>you can't go around saying how wonderful it is to masturbate to images of children.
yes you can, that's the whole fucking point
You little spoiled babby born into free-speech culture, you can't even fucking appreciate this grate privilage and human achievement. Disgusting

>>3765844
You're just trying to be edgy and go against the grain of these 'liberals" you have thought up with that paranoid mind of yours.

>>3765857
you sound paranoid clutching at straws like that

>>3765854
True, man invented cooking and also everything.

>>3765834
Your ignorance is showing.

>>3765853
somehow I don't see the relation between fighting against the oppression women of sexual minorities and the oppression of sexual minorities and jews. but you can make whatever rationalizations you want if that's what get you through the night.

>>3765861
Really, where does your hate of women stem from?

>>3765842
Fun fact: the min. wage average from the 1960s would be about $20 an hour today if it adjusted to inflation like everything else did.

Why did the cost of living go up so high, yet wages did not? Many uneducated women decided to work, thus drastically lower the value of an unskilled worker.

So if women would have stayed in the kitchen, you'd get to watch tv all day and I'd be making $20 an hour cleaning toliets

>>3765835
>clouded mind
If anything, 4chan is proof that men have more clouded minds.

>>3765862
But he is right. And you are a hypocrite.

>>3765852
top lel, ding dong, top lel
Women should be and WANT to be treated as objects the one's that broke away from that constant are the ones causing everyone headaches

>>3765869
Fuck off, I'm not talking about the infantry.

>what is special forces
and you're ignorant if you think everybody or you would "hack it" in that

really, keep trying to justify how oh so superior you are to women

>>3765866
Pretty much sums it up.

>>3765872
blah blah i'm a nutcase look at me blah blah

MUH OPINION

>>3765871
No hate. I like them.

>masculinity crisis

Does this actually exist?
It sounds like a cliché invented by middle-aged men because they saw the metrosexual boyband members that are commercial products aimed at 12 year old girls.

>>3765866
gross oversimplification dude, suckers might believe you on the spot, though

>>3765878
>hurr durr i am le legion xD hurr durr

MUH GAY PRIDE

>>3765873
I am superior to you, is all.

>>3765883
It exists, but for loser young adult males and not middle-aged men.

>>3765886
i'll slit your throat and not even feel a thing

>>3765863
Yeah, your cause is always a special one, isn't it? Everyone else went too far, but in your case it REALLY IS just SO important that your actions are justified.

>>3765889
you won't feel a thing because you will long be dead from my karate skills

>>3765879
>oh baby you're such a dumb whore women never invented anything stay in the kitchen

you really got a fucked up view of relationships and society and everything really

even legitimate right-wing pundits on foxnews aren't this full retard

>>3765885
>/sp/
>/pol/

>>3765891
I'm still waiting for you to relate the two, or are you doing the slippery slope thing; that if I take away your right to be sexist or homophobic, who knows? Maybe I'll take away your right to use some logic once in a while. You, out of all people, don't need to worry about that.

>>3765897
>/b/

I thought this was the literature board.

It's not a masculinity crisis, it's a motivation crisis, and insulting us by essentially calling us "unmasculine" is just another way to make us more jaded and more unmotivated.

Hey /lit/ how come you do not realize that you have been trolled hard? I expected better of you, yet you are still feeding this troll. Don't have anything better to do ike discussing a book or something?

>>3765907
>discussing a book
What the fuck?

>>3765907
there has never been a non-troll thread you fool

you are too new for this shit

>>3765907
manure sometimes fertilizes

>>3765913
Get a life, why do you people still even come here?

I've been coming here less and less and I've noticed progress in my life due to that.

>>3765921
make me, faggot

oh, that's right, you are a limpdicked frustrated loudmouth, what a joke

>>3765905
> that if I take away your right to be sexist or homophobic,

The only ways to eliminate either of those things are mass re-education programs and the introduction of ideological indoctrination from a young age, and you have indicated by your previous posts that you understand this. I repeat, you are a fascist. You have no leg to stand on.

>Society's unwillingness to let go of the tired old "breadwinner" model of masculinity contributes to that distress. Instead of talking about what men and boys can be, instead of starting an honest conversation about what masculinity means, there is a conspiracy of silence around these issues that is only ever broken by conservative rhetoric and lazy stereotypes

Jesus Christ the arrogance of these "progressive" types. Every society til now has defined masculinity in terms of courageous, aggressive, provider, etc., and to think that this one society of ours can go against the grain of ALL successful societies up until now just because "we the future now guys xD, not like those ignorant middle agers xD!!"

I'm tired of the Middle Ages being represented as a time of ignorance by arrogant moderns.

>"One is clever and knows everything that has ever happened: so there is no end to derision."

>>3765926
>mom! more hotpockets!

>>3765933
it's not your tumblr, faggot, no need to describe your day

>>3765927
>fascism is bad and unnatural
>but sexism and homophobia isn't

what side are you even on? the fascists are the ones who are advocating for sexism and homophobia.

>>3765921
Its my first day here, i came from /fit/ there we usually argue about height and our penis size.

>>3765936
>tumblr
newfag from 2010 detected

I've been here since 2004.

>>3765928
>aggressive
>a good thing
go shit out of a window you primitive peasant

>>3765928
>Instead of talking about what men and boys can be

LIKE FUCKING WHAT?

You sound exactly like Nietzsche and the transhumanists who are tired of "mere humanity" so invent the "Overman", but aren't brave enough to actually define the properties of their Superhuman, Transhuman, only that he is of course "better".
You sound just like the socialists who are tired of "mere capitalist society" so invent the "post-capitalist society", but aren't brave enough to actually define any of it's properties.

>>3765951
>saging
>calling me a peasant

>implying you aren't being aggressive

that hypocrisy

>>3765959
#rekt

>Just under 4 hours since thread was made
>[344 replies] [32 images]

What happened?!

This is probably the fastest thread I've ever seen on /lit/.

i dont know who to believe anymore

>>3765957
You sound just like the capitalists who are tired of "mere corporatist society" so invent the "communist society", but aren't brave enough to actually define any of it's properties.

>>3765966
you can believe me

>>3765965
subject that everone has an opinion on

there are like 10 people on this board that have read a book this year

>>3765938
I haven't even taken a stance on sexism and homophobia. Why do you keep bringing that up? The reprehensible thing is your methods. And I'm not advocating for the forced re-education or indoctrination of fascists.

>>3765965
Every thread on /lit/ that degenerates into politics ends up like this. Mods put up with it because it's the only half-way intelligent conversation people ever have on this god-forsaken board.

>>3765126

Please women continue to tell us more about what you know exactly nothing about: the male experience.

Feminism is intellectual Peter Pan hood. It is a syndrome of spoiled princesses who want everyone to do what they say and comply with their demands, appropriating the masculine ideals of earner, provider, and decision-maker, while simultaneously retaining the privileges of womanhood: being protected by society, having your safety and well-being guaranteed and defended, being inherently valued as an individual rather than having to earn that through accomplishments (as men do), never having your life or material wealth be treated as a disposable asset to society.

When feminists discuss masculinity, the underlying goal is always the same: they want wp,em to appropriate masculine ideals for themselves while being able to slander men who exhibit them with impunity. The goal absolutely is a role reversal. Steinem lied.

>>3765775
Evolution is proven not to stop at the neck.
There are very clear-cut differences in male and female brains, from the womb to the grave.