/lit/ - Literature

'Merica happened, fucking Commi.

get your head out of your ass

A lot of the transformation to 'mainstream fiction' (at least that's the term I'm going to use for the sake of this post) came before WWII. I think it was the Education Reform Act of 1870 in the UK that made education a requirement until the age of 14 but it was that kind of progression in the lower classes that led to a downgrade in the standard of literature which was then seen as strictly by and for the intelligentsia (who at the time quite commonly had very Nietzschean views concerning their superiority). This downgrade of literature to accommodate for the upgrade in lower class intelligence kick started popular fiction, books such as Sherlock Holmes were introduced and the Newspaper become an everyday household purchase.

Apologise for any mistakes, it's 2AM and I can't sleep.

Psst. You only remember the good writers of yesteryear because they're the only ones that have endured. In 100 years nobody will have ever even heard of Ann Coulter, E.L. James, Stephen King, and whoever else you listed.

>>3664834
I really need to practice my ability to use grammar at 2am. Just say if you aren't following what I typed.

>>3664834
>it was that kind of progression in the lower classes that led to a downgrade in the standard of literature

What the fuck are you talking about you classist British piece of shit. Literature was bretty good up until WWII. Leave it to a Tory to shit on free-public education.

No but seriously, I don't think you're entirely wrong. The ignorant masses do tend to govern demand, hence quality of literature. Hence why YA is doing terrific right now, because a large chunk of the book buying audience are teenage girls.

Hey...I think we're on to something here mate.

Literature became worse, because the standards of the target audience declined.

But will you agree with me, chum, in that the standards of the "masses" has significantly dropped since WWII? I think so. You can see it in music too.

The natural progression of popular taste?....

>>3664834
>>3664839
>>3664847
I guess we can look at it like this graph

Please don't pretend that shitlit is anything new under the sun. If anything it's simply because it's easier to market.

lrn2penny dreadfuls.

>>3664860

You didn't finish it.

>>3664877
>>3664838
>>3664823
Why do buttmad liberals always do this? "Literature was always shit so therefore enjoy the worst literature ever produced"

What you butthurters don't seem to understand, is that Dickens novels sold so well that it's comparable to King's success percentage wise (I think).

Therefore, King of late 20th century, is what Dickens was to late 19th century.

Therefore, the quality of literature has drastically worsened. Yet you butthurt hispter roach nazi-liberals still insists "herpa derpa literature was always bad uehhueheuhuehheueh".

Hoenstly, I swear all you guys do all day is 420.

>>3664886

>>3664886

>saying that you should bear in mind that there has always been shit = YOU MUST ENJOY SHIT FOREVER BECAUSE BAD IS RELATIVE AND YOU MUST READ IT OR YOU WILL BE GULAG'D

Why do buttmad "patricians" always do this?

Guys seriously I'm going to say it once more then go to bed.
Mainstream fiction appeared when education of the 'masses' appeared. Before compulsory education very little percentage of people could read. Once compulsory education was put in place a market opened up for plot-driven literature.

Night guys, pls stop arguing over stupid shit

>>3664898
Your buttmadness is so showing lol.

le hipster nephew rage! (lol)

>>3664886
so? There were also a thousand penny dreadfuls that sold like hotcakes and were lost to who gives a fuck.

I think it has more to do with the rise of the cinema.

>>3664905

>defending elitist literary views
>calls me a hipster

'k

>>3664905

>DFW for your hipster nephew
>Coraline for your genius niece

9/10 trolling by that store.

>>3664904
>plot-driven literature.
>implying Dickens's work wasn't plot driven
When he was writing he didn't publish novels he published his works as serials, he was literally the Georgian-Victorian equivalent of a comic book artist. Plot driven=/= Badly written

>>3664905
Is that Infinite Jest I see for your hipster nephew?
I wonder how many ate that bait

>>3664905
Yay! I see IJ peeking at me on the right :3

>>3664934
Whatever makes you feel better about not reading it...

>>3664803
You just said WWII happened you idiot

>>3664803

>The WWII happened.

Isn't that your answer?
All the good authors (potential or actual) would have been killed, and then edgy faggots like the Beats took the mantle.

At least WW1 gave us some bad-ass poetry.

>>3664945
>All the good authors (potential or actual) would have been killed, and then edgy faggots like the Beats took the mantle.

No....NO!......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

(It's so plausible it's true)

>>3664945
>At least WW1 gave us some bad-ass poetry.
Also very true.

>>3664931
I never said anything about badly written, I never implied that's what I'm getting at. Perhaps we're at a misunderstanding here, OP has asked "What the fuck happened?!?!?" and each of us is trying to answer, yet none of know what OP has thought to happen. I assumed OP was talking about the lack of substance and prose in today's popular fiction and my own opinion is that the education of the 'masses' starting from the late 19th century has created a market for plot-driven escapist novels.

How have you interpreted OP? What is your opinion on this. I should have gone to bed but instead I find myself trying to get /lit/ to be civil.
May God have mercy on me

>>3664945
>edgy faggots like the Beats took the mantle.
It's the prerogative of current literati to look down on and dismiss what's considered new or different. The Lost Generation writers and poets where the edgy faggots of their day. What you consider to be hipster 2deep4u shit today will be considered classic tomorrow, and your impotent rage does nothing to stop it.

>>3664949
>I should have gone to bed but instead I find myself
You haven't gone to bread because the old king bitch-nigger anti-freespeecher mod/janitor is dead, and the quality posts are now flooding in.

Also, your theory is dumb, try again: 18th century literature is even worse in when considering purely plot driven/character based/terrible prose/escapist drivel literature.

Idiot.

>>3664956
lol buttmad hipster detected.

>>3664960
But please consider how small the percentage of fluent readers was before the education reforms, look at figures if you must, I'm sure they're easy enough to find even if I can't be bothered.
Care to elaborate on your point/argument without resorting to name calling and simply saying 'you're wrong'.

>>3664956

Dulce et decorum est > Howl

No contest.

>>3664949
I find the idea of blaming the "masses" to be ludicrous. Unless you come from an incredibly small minority of moneyed families you are just as much a product of the "masses" than anyone else. You ARE the mass, we ARE the mass, if anyone has to figure out the reason for the state of modern art, all you have to do is look in the mirror. Trying to pass yourself off as anything more than a Bourgeoisie psuedo intellectual while blaming the working class for the lack of "good" writers is absurd.

>>3664966
I personally believe that the upper-classes are pushing knavery on the masses in efforts to sabotage social climbers.

Think about it, people like whatever you brainwash them to like, all you have to do is bombard with repetition. It's corporatism gone made, were art is used not to elevate ideals or raise the status quo, but to keep the low "low" by drowning them in media that affirms a destructive and negative concept of self and perception of society: hence "YOLO".

Like my answer now Jiff?

>>3664967

I disagree, and I actually can't stand Howl or the beats in general. But at least Howl isn't some heavy-handed anti-war bullshit.

>>3664969
That's not what I mean to do, I'm working class and I'm not trying to separate myself from the 'mass'.
I was trying to look at it from an objective point of view but perhaps you're right in saying I'm sounding like a Bourgeoisie pseudo-intellectual.
I think my lack of understanding here is coming from the fact that I am happy with the state of literature and don't share OP's view of 'what the fuck happened?' so I'm trying to give an answer explaining why literature is how it is without knowing what it is OP thinks it is

what am I even on about
3am fuck this I'm out, come here bed
night guys

>>3664979

>But at least Howl isn't some heavy-handed anti-war bullshit.

No, you're right, it's a 2edgy4u poem about losers who burned themselves out.

I'll take my Lost Generation of people who actually suffered and endured as opposed to trust-fund kiddies 420BLAZINGITFAGET any day.

>>3664886
Dickens isn't very good so it makes sense.

The jews won

>>3664886
>Hoenstly, I swear all you guys do all day is 420.
Oh, it's you again.

>>3664803
>Heminghweigh
wow just wowsorry OP your opinion is automatically invalid.

>>3664999
yep

>>3665026
You sir are a new roach to the premises.