/lit/ - Literature

Thought it was stupid, I mean, why bitch out like that?

I don't see any problem at all. Your life is probably totally void of meaning. Either kill yourself or don't.

I actually read The Myth Of Sisyphus and decided to not do it. I don't know, I'm still depressed and all that but death is inevitable. I could at least try to make it okay while I'm here.

>>3657629

Is your life any more meaningful?

I have told myself that no matter what events, I will not turn to suicide. I want to see what will happen next, not step out of the theater after a sad or exhausting scene.

That is for me though. Should others do it? I wish I could say no, but I am not them. I can not speak for them. I am not their voice. Suicide, in both act and principle, is a personal question, one that only they can answer.

>>3657635

Camus was right. The only justified reason not to kill yourself is that it will cause suffering of others.

Do you guys think suicide is a cowardly act or morally wrong?

I'm reading some Schopenhauer now and he writes:
"Thus we hear that suicide is the most cowardly of acts, that only a madman would commit it, and similar insipidities; or the senseless assertion that suicide is 'wrong', though it is obvious there is nothing in the world a man has a more incontestable right to than his own person."

>>3657621
"Le suicide est le dernier acte par lequel un homme puisse montrer qu'il a dominé sa vie."

"Suicide is the last act through which a man may show that he dominated his life"

-Henry de Montherlant

>>3657651
Nonsense. Any "suffering" someone's suicide causes others is totally imaginary at best and selfish indignation at worst.

>>3657621

Suicide is soooo 10 years ago.

I frequently think of removing my eyes in the name of eroticism. But that isn't suicide. I haven't done it yet.

>>3657658
Why would one care about causing suffering they'll never know about since they're dead?

Camus sounds very christian in this one.

i always wanted to hang myself i just dont know when, i was thinking like 35 so i can have peaked creatively but not quite become washed up yet

>>3657658
>>3657664

What Camus is really writing though isn't that it just causes suffering to others, but that one should continue to live as a rebellion to the absurd. That is to say, one shouldn't give up in light of the meaninglessness of life but persist in living as a form of rebellion.

>>3657652
>there is nothing in the world a man has a more incontestable right to than his own person."
>>3657653
>"Suicide is the last act through which a man may show that he dominated his life"

I've considered it in different ways for so long now.

I don't really know how it started, I think I started thinking about suicide just to find out why I wouldn't do it.
Sadly, I didn't find any answer why not to do it, and I've struggled with finding meaning in anything the last year or so.

The only reason why I don't kill myself at the moment is because I know I will die later anyway, and that comforts me somehow.

>>3657659
>says sage
>doesn't sage
Son, you fucked up

>>3657674
« Il y a plus d'élégance, quand on se retire du monde, à s'en retirer sans le blâmer. »

"There is more elegance, upon leaving this world, to leave it without blaming it."

>>3657621
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Manual_of_Suicide

>>3657674
« La mort la meilleure est celle qui nous plaît. »

"The best death is the one which pleases you."

>>3657691
>There's always a way out.

Yes, that way is called suicide.

>>3657658
elaborate please

“Suicide may also be regarded as an experiment -- a question which man puts to Nature, trying to force her to answer. The question is this: What change will death produce in a man's existence and in his insight into the nature of things? It is a clumsy experiment to make; for it involves the destruction of the very consciousness which puts the question and awaits the answer.”

>>3657652
It's cowardly, you're just refusing to see outside of the stress-fueld tunnel vision for your real options. There's always a way out.

>>3657652
Depends on the context I suppose. Let's take a man who has contracted a highly contagious disease, but has learned that if the host dies, the disease dies with it. While it is not known if it is terminal, this disease in particular is very painful. Doctors are still trying to find a cure. One day, it is discovered that the man has killed himself.

Cowardice? Maybe. Perhaps he could not bear the pain any longer. Or is it bravery? The disease died with him, so did he not just spare many others from the pain? We do not know his reasons, it could have been either. We may chide him for weakness or praise him for his selflessness, but we can not know which, if either of those reasons are true.

>>3657694
Sure thing smartass.

Suicide is wrong because what if everyone killed themselves when they were sad?

Then there wouldn't be any people around to kill themselves!!!

>>3657680
>>3657686
I think that it is necessary to have wished for death in order to know how good it is to live.

All the people saying they either never thought of suicide or see it as cowardice (where the first kind is the worst), never realizes what it means to live, what it actually means to BE.

Fucking dasein and all those wegsein philistines.

I've seriously considered it at a somewhat bad time in my life, when I was utterly alone and had nobody to talk to. However, I realised that even though I didn't have much reason to live(at that time), I didn't exactly have a reason to die either.

Plus, since I don't believe in any form of afterlife I thought to myself "I guess even this depression ridden life is better than having nothing right?"

So I kept on living and life eventually got better.

>>3657708
People don't have to be sad to kill themselves.

I think there are some people who don't understand the absurdity of suicide.

> It is more likely someone will die from suicide than from homicide. For every two people killed by homicide, three people die of suicide.

>>3657718
I was just oversimplifying Kant's argument against suicide

I used to think I was suicidal but it was total bullshit

>meaning of life general
lol what

The thing about suicide that confuses me is why everyone doesn't do it. I don't understand what the point of living is.

> The spring months of March, April, and May have consistently shown to have the highest suicide rate, 4-6% higher than the average for the rest of the year. Christmas season is actually below average. Some studies suggest greater seasonality in suicides in rural rather than urban areas

>>3657734
Most people don't like the idea of being dead

>>3657734

Following your logic, what's the point of dying?

>>3657727
I am a man of a simple mind.

>>3657740
>being dead
wut

>>3657734
>Only optimists commit suicide, the optimists who can no longer be...optimists. The others, having no reason to live, why should they have any to die?

I have considered it, but I always reminded myself that pain is ephemeral.

>>3657716
I'm glad to hear that.

> Hegesias (320-280 B.C.) was known as the “Death Persuader” or the “Advocate of Death” and belonged to a minor school of Greek philosophy named Cyrenaics which advocated an early version of hedonism. Hegasias' lectures prompted so many listeners to commit suicide that he was forbidden to speak.

>>3657751
>pain is ephemeral.

So is life.

>>3657747
You know what I mean

>>3657708
Killing yourself isn't justified as an emotional act, only as a well thought out and rational one. If you do it because you're 'sad', that's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

>>3657755
Life is the least ephemeral thing I will ever experience.

>>3657762
>Life is the least ephemeral thing I will ever experience.

Except much of what you experience will live on well after you've kicked the bucket.

Your life isn't special, and it's probably too long in any case, whether you kill yourself at 20 or 110.

>>3657757
>permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Stop using this phrase, it doesn't make sense. Would you prefer a temporary solution to a temporary problem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_suicide_attempt

I thought about it, but realized even suicide is just a way to increase your income.

Schopenhauer was right guys, futile gestures.

You aren't tired of life, you're just poor.

>>3657621

Suicide is really pretentious. A suicider assumes he knows what life is all about, how the universe functions, and that his time here for some reason doesn't matter and he should end himself.

A suicider thinks he's figured it all out. The most ignorant position to take and act upon.

>>3657767
It's all relative. Why would I willfully end the only permanent thing I have? Why would I kill myself when the world can be so wonderful?

>>3657742
Because then you don't have to suffer. Don't have to worry about the mad scramble for the basic resources to keep yourself alive. It's ultimate peace.

Who was that philosopher who decided to kill himself after he finished his Phd dissertation which was basically a treatise on pessimism and suicide lol

he had integrity, in a way

>>3657774
Why worry about those things anyway?

>>3657772
>Why would I willfully end the only permanent thing I have? Why would I kill myself when the world can be so wonderful?

Your life is not permanent, and life isn't always so wonderful--as we all know.

>>3657768
Yes, I would. If I have a headache I take a pill which will leave my system in a matter of hours. I don't chop off my head.

> Monday appears to be the day on which most suicides occur. Saturday sees the fewest.

>>3657777
We've been over this. Relatively speaking my life is permanent.

>>3657775

>>3657772
>Why wouldn't I kill myself when the world can be so terrible?

>>3657771
I thought /lit/ agreed on suicide being too absurd to be talked about like this.

Suicide is not an event in anyones life, you do not experience death, theres nothing to be said about it.

> One suicide victim who committed suicide by jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge left behind a note saying: “I’m going to walk to the bridge. If one person smiles at me on the way, I will not jump.”

>>3657787
>Suicide is not an event in anyones life, you do not experience death

>conflating the act of killing yourself with the state of death itself

learn to proper semantics

i was psychologically and phyiscally abused as a child and now i'm depressed and suffer various mental problems.

what's the point in living like this? i will probably kill myself by the end of the year.

>>3657776
Because if I don't, I will starve and become homeless.

The big fear - yes it is a fear, a taboo - of suicide in today's society is only a judeo-christian construct and not a value based on "natural morals" or logic.

In fact, it is one's highest right to deny this existence that he did not ask for.

>>3657792

maybe it would be best to live in the present and love yourself, instead of dwelling on the past and hating yourself

but I have no idea what you are feeling so ya, good luck

>>3657775
The one who did a dissertation as a suicide note?

It's online, I read the last couple of pages where it gets really surreal, as he says "before i end it, i want to ...".

>>3657797
Got a link to that dissertation? Sounds mad interesting.

>>3657795
>In fact, it is one's highest right to deny this existence that he did not ask for.

Yep, the world needs less dumb people

>>3657791
I'm sorry, I meant death itself.

The act of committing suicide is not absurd in any way, although it's a very violent event. I would go with a gunshot, I fear pain, and medicine can fail on you.

>>3657797

No. That guy is an amateur.

I'm referring to Carlos Michelstaedter
>>3657785

I see no point in living, what makes you think I see a point in dying?

>>3657803
>The act of committing suicide is not absurd

It's just ignorant and dumb.

>>3657809

How is it ignorant and dumb?

>>3657812
>How is it ignorant and dumb?

refer to
>>3657771

>>3657621
"Hara-kiri is a very positive, very proud way of death. I think it is very different from the Western concept of suicide. The Western concept of suicide is always defeat itself -- mostly. But hara-kiri sometimes makes you win." -- Yukio Mishima

>>3657816
http://stagevu.com/video/xvfenhvyksio

>>3657806>>3657799

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. This is what I read the last part of this:
http://www.suicidenote.info/ebook/suicide_note.pdf

>>3657809
Slicing your own wrist without any positive meaning to it is dumb yes. It hurts and theres blood everywhere.

If you do it to kill yourself, and you do it succesfully, it's absolutely absurd.

>>3657803
>go with a gunshot
ever read sorrows of young werther? That was based on a dude who took, what, 12 hours to die after he shot himself in the head

>>3657813
you make unknowable phenomenological claims.
Plenty of people act probabilistically, it's arguably the only way a posteriori decisions can be made

>>3657792
http://www.constitution.org/rom/epicdisc1.htm#1:01

Time to take control of what only you have control over bro.

a canvas needs to be painted by a human to be a patining. just because human intervention is required does not mean that the painting isnt real. the earth still revolves around the sun, but the painting lovingly exists, doing its best to defy the absurd.

>>3657824
I would like some sort of contraption, where i end my life in a fraction of a second with the push of a button.

A little research and the proper gun would fill this need, although some sort of overdose on powerful anesthetic(?) would also do the trick. I would need proffesional help with the medicine, but I think I could manage to get a gun big enough to remove enough of my brain to kill myself intantly

>>3657651
>The only justified reason not to kill yourself is that it will cause suffering of others.

So it's perfectly acceptable for a person with no family, friends, any social connections, to go to a secluded site, or out in the middle of the ocean and tie a concrete weight about their legs and drown themselves, to rot away and never be found nor cause grief to anyone?

>>3657850
Yes.

Commiting suicide is permanent, Death is permanent. Life is temporary.

I can't decide on anything, so for the time being I'm gonna go with the decision I can change not the one I can't.

>>3657691

That makes the baseless assumption that all people who commit suicide are those 'suffering' from depression, hardship or otherwise.

Consider that maybe there just is a complete lack or desire to want to live.

What say you then?

>>3657792
try something radical. Something of the same extremity that habituated the negativity. Finding what that is, is the hard part, particularly when depression makes you lethargic. For example, creative outlets are great, but you would be hard pressed to start and finish works, and may be overly critical.
I could also suggest to get big into logic, like in a Kantian sense. Feelings and Logic aren't a dichotomy, but some hardline logic, on somewhere in the ballpark of existentialism and significance, can bring you to these mantra like clauses about suffering, experience and significance that, in times of mental distress, can bring relief.
I guess it's all easier said than done. But try something radical.

>>3657716
good for you man. this is will stick with me.

>>3657658

It causes suffering through inconvenience maybe?

>>3657621
>Have you ever thought about suicide, /lit/?

often

>What kept you from going through with it?

50% drugs 50% "it would be a bummer for my family."

I have been a hundred times on the point of killing myself, but still was fond of life. This ridiculous weakness is
perhaps one of our worst instincts.
What can be more absurd than choosing to carry a burden that one really wants to throw to the ground? To detest,
and yet to strive to preserve our existence?
To caress the serpent that devours us, and hug him close to our bosoms till he has gnawed into our hearts?

>>3657667

>peak creativity
>35

Some of the greatest works of men have come about in their more advanced years nearer the ends of the life.

If you're so concerned about 'creative peaks', the idea of bringing about some creative work, then it's best to persevere as long as you can and not set some arbitrary time limit.

I have considered it. Reading Pessoa and Scopenhauer helped me a lot. Now life is otherwise the same, but I learned to not attach with the suffering parts of life.

>>3657826
>you make unknowable phenomenological claims.

it's implicit in the act itself, it's like someone who decides to burn all books and never read or think again.

I think about suicide daily. I never do it because I believe that if I was really willing to end my consciousness I would be completely unconcerned with what happened to me in life, and I could live the "the world is now your oyster" argument, which never happens, and I find myself getting anxious about driving down a new road or what my waitress thinks about me. Also, I'd feel bad for what it would do to my family.

>>3657855
>maybe there just is a complete lack or desire to want to live.
>What say you then?

They should go on testosterone and get healthy. Clearly they have physical impairments that are creating some sort of chemical imbalance.

Having no desire to live isn't caused by some neat perspective or understanding of reality, it's caused by chemicals in your brain being impaired from their normal healthy function

>>3657771

I think it's rather more pretentious to hold such presumptuous notions of what a person who commits suicide is really thinking or feeling.

>>3657781

A product of the mon-fri work week?

>>3657802

...

>>3657795
i don't understand what you mean by "judeo-christian morals and unnatural." what are "natural morals" but morals constructed by humanity? what are "judeo-christian morals" but the same thing? how can morality be unnatural?

as an atheist, i consider judeo-christrian contributions to the discussion about morality at least worth listening to, rather than completely rejected just because i'm too cool to believe in a bearded god.

what does /lit/ think of war and peace regarding this issue?

>>3657911
"judeo-christian morals are* unnatural"

>What is the meaning of life, it's all useless because we die
>let's kill ourselves because we are afraid of dead
Existential crisis in a nutshell

>>3657839
>I would like some sort of contraption, where i end my life in a fraction of a second with the push of a button.

A gunshot to the medulla oblongata?

Hanging (if done right) is also apparently rather instantaneous.

>>3657882
>it's like someone who decides to burn all books and never read or think again.

>one needs to read books to think

An illiterate person is just as capable of thinking, logical thought, and coming to his own philsophical interpretations of the world. Even debate and through speech if you're worried about the transmission of information.

>>3657918

>(if done right)

That's the problem.

You see, hanging should break your neck by dislocating vertebrae and instantly kill you but it's rather hard to do(especially by someone who has never done that before) so most people just end up choking to death, which is not that pleasant.

>meaning of life general
>suicide
what are you 12?

>>3657891

Interesting.

Do you think that 'non-medicative' therapy doesn't work then? Or shouldn't be used?

Taking pills to 'fix' the problem, why not brainwash them? Or lobotomize them? They'll be happy then.

The real question is why shouldn't a person be allowed to realise their own demise on their own terms? Why can't society structure itself to allow for this?

We already allow for euthanasia clinics in certain parts of the world (albeit at a certain age or if having a terminal illness).

>>3657940
No. Are you?

>>3657929

point is he's ending his journey and quest for knowledge/wisdom by committing suicide

A person who kills themselves is implicitly saying he's figured it all out and there is nothing that can change his mind.

Or he admits he's ignorant and kills himself out of pure ignorance.

>>3657943
>Do you think that 'non-medicative' therapy doesn't work then? Or shouldn't be used?

Both have their functions and places.

>The real question is why shouldn't a person be allowed to realise their own demise on their own terms?

Because this assumes people are always clear headed and never make bad decisions. It also assumes some sort of magical free-will that escapes the bio-chemical causal chain.

If you give someone enough alcohol and adrenaline they're gonna make some really stupid decisions. Similarly if their body has an internal chemical malfunction they could also make terrible decisions.

>Taking pills to 'fix' the problem, why not brainwash them?

Depends how effective the pill is and the side-effects. It might be worth it if the pros outweigh the cons.

>>3657911
Morality as an absolute is fundamentally unnatural as proven by the lack of universality of morality; it is man-made not innate, except if you want to argue that God wrote the Bible, et cetera.

In ancient Greece and Rome, suicide was considered as a valid option; words by Lutèce, Plutarque and others may be found about suicide, commenting it in a very positive way. Suicide may or may not be "heroic", but they tend to describe "heroic" suicide. Since I've been quoting Montherlant a lot in this thread, I will use his example: when Montherlant commited suicide in '72 at 77, this was considered by most of the french press as a noble act; an act of bravery; Montherlant left a note saying "I'm old, I'm going blind; I'm killing myself." He was mostly acclaimed for sticking to his conception of life (and death) that he described in his books and to his comments on suicide. Of course not all suicides are like this, but Montherlant wasn't sick, he was only blind in one eye and he still was popular and rich. He wasn't disgusted by the times he lived in, since he simply did not live in these times; his suicide was not an easy escape from pain of disease or sadness; he did it because he thought it was time.

>>3657960
Watch out for the new edition of utilitarianism!

I cannot see anything wrong with this kind of utilitarianism, why is it wrong? I always hear complaints about it, but rarely any logical sound one

>>3657967
i understand that morality is not an abstraction that would float around in the universe without humans, but i dont really see why thats a reason to ignore it, especially if our make-up predisposes us to acknowledge it. (of course, not everyone is perfectly created and born with this predisposition, but i claim the right to say that generally speaking, we naturally want to be moral, even though morality is entirely man-made).

that being said, how can we say that judeo-christian ethical arguments are invalid? after all, you talk about ancient greece and rome and modern france in terms of morality. in those cases, society -approved- suicide, which is to say that those societies had some prescribed conceptions about right and wrong. those were not non-moral judgments; they were entirely moral. judaism and christianity simply disagree with those beliefs. if greece, rome, and france were not non-moral, how are they more "natural" or legitimate than judeo-christian ideas? at the very least, we can say that there is an argument to be had between them. i simply have a problem with saying that judeo-christian ideas don't count while ancient greek and rome ideas do.

I pretty much hate life but I still have some hope though it dwindles bjy the day. I do think I will die by suicide. I see 2 scenarios

1. I graduate dont get a job and after working some shit retail job living my with parents I off myself

2. I graduate get a decent job and a place to myself. Its great right away then after a few years of crushing loneliness and depression I kill myself.

Has anyone seen the documentary Crumb? I am going to end up being like Crumbs brother.

Emil Cioran: "Only optimists commit suicide, the optimists who can no longer be...optimists. The others, having no reason to live, why should they have any to die?"

I will most likely earn a lot soon. I will work hard, morning to night, 6 days a week. I want my life to be like that because when I work, I don't feel happiness nor sadness. I will only have little free time so I can enjoy some stuff, more than ever.
And then I will kill myself once I reach 45 or something, because it's too pathetic. People will always look at me like a monster freak or whatever. "Ha ha, look at this fucker", yes, look at me and don't become like me.

>>3658051

. Man, to end up like crumb's brothers one has to be seriously crazy. Dont even play with somethink like that: that guys were incarnations of sadness and fear-of-people.

Why do you think is so hard to live a normal life? Seriously? Buy some new clothes, talk to your friends and go out, meet some girls. Ore travel to the country, bath in rivers, lakes...sleep on farms, or go to the sea: make some small trips on your weekends.

And if you are really a very insecure guy, read neil strauss "the game"; it may seem silly, but it will hel you.

Do anything, just dont picture yourself like one of the members of crumb family.

>>3657891


One can be perfectly happy, until someone tells him how absolutely hopeless his situation is or how he's at a lower social rank and ought be what he is not. Depression can be caused by experience as well as an innate chemical disposition. The "depression epidemic" which afflicts our society, is probably not caused by a population which is increasingly biologically predisposed to melancholy, but by a culture which stifles all that is not the ideal, yet is founded on principles of freedom and individuality.

The idea of modern psychology is that mental events have a physiological basis, but one must forget that the mental side of things still exists.

>>3658085

>friends

Who do you think I am? I havent had a friend in years. I sit on 4chan all day. The only reason I havent killed myself is becuase when I graduate I hope to move and kinda start over. If I dont get a job I will end up like that crumb who never goes outside and reads the same books over and over again until he finnaly gets the courage to off himslef

>>3658088

I think its caused by the competitiveness of modern society. I was reading something where NEETs are an actually problem in Japan. Japans education system plus their poor economic situation right now leads to people being easily discouraged.

Plus life is easier now so people can sit around all day and think about how pointless and depressing life is

>>3658096

hi wanna be friends

>>3658120

That's alright people kinda annoy me. I like talking to people kinda of get on my nerves after I know them for a while. I wish I could have a job where I travel around. I could just meet new people then move on. I think thats why I like 4chan. I can talk to lots of people but never have to get attached

I never considered it. I see no reason not to live on anymore as this is the only time I get to be experience existence. There will be no second chance at that as far as my worldview goes and it would be a wasteto throw that away.

>>3657664
Because other people who are affected by it will know it. Even after you cease to exist other people will live on and have to endure the consequences of your selfish ways.

>>3657774
Peace you don't experience. It's meaningless.

>>3658183
>implying its not the ultimate act of selfishness to make demands of others only to appease yourself even though it causes them suffering

>What kept you from going through with it?

The majority of people are cowards, they would rather continue with an existence on life support than to face and infinite nothing. Suicide is only for the brave few and the mentally ill many. The majority of people will think about it and tell others about their thinking, but of course it's more of teenage cry for attention than a thought with real action behind it. Just like the majority of people will think about how society is corrupt and worthless, and tell others about these greats thoughts but never carry them out.

I am afraid of death

>>3658096

But why don't you try to make some friends? Of course is not that simple...I myself dont feel much confortable around the majority of people, but after a while you get used to it...And altough it may seem that other people dont have anything to offer you, it is simple thinks like talk while drinking a beer.

You are problaby a nice and sensible guy (much of people that are shy are very sensible and have empaty for others), and i'm sure that a lot of poeple will like to be your friends.

If you have literature lessons, why dont you start by making friends with some of your classmates? Just try: you well see that poeple will be nice to you. And if you had a job, start to talk to your collegues...

If you want some help, I may offer you my e-mail. I will be happy to help you.

>>3657621
The thing is that contemplating suicide is often enough to alleviate the crisis for me.

I tend to have some sort of love/hate relationship with life. There is no neutrality, I always feel the need to either rail against it or praise it deliriously.

"And were an epitaph to be my story I'd have a short one ready for my own. I would have written of me on my stone: I had a lover's quarrel with the world."
Robert Frost

>>3658246

I am a CS student. I am surrounded by uncultured neckbeards

>>3658088
>The idea of modern psychology is that mental events have a physiological basis, but one must forget that the mental side of things still exists.


Cultural and social pressures can manifest in brain damage and chemical imbalances. It's not either/or. It's really both.

It's hard to treat someone purely in a psychological way, or purely in a chemical way.

>>3658269

Now you made a good point. The fact that they are "uncultured" does not mean that they are not nice people, or that they can not be good friends. I will use myself as an example.

I work as a lawyer (I dont like this profession, but i realyzed that I would not be able to suport myself as a writer, and because of that I dicided to study Law), and my best friends are my coworkers, other lawyers. They dont like to rread much, and dont like classical music, nor classical films. They are like the majority of people: like actions movies, like the music that is playing on the radios (do you know Michel Teló and his song "Nossa, Nossa, assim você me mata?"? Well, I'm brazilian, and this kind of shitty song is wat my friends like to listen): they dont have any cultured feature.

But when I go out with them I dont talk about literature of arts; I just want to laugh, to drink, to meet grils, to talk about funny things of life, about light things. I leave literature and arts to myself. Do you see? People dont need to be like you to be your friends.

>>3658305
I'm not the guy you're replying to, but to people like him, what you just described—your co-workers as friends that you have to hide your hobbies from—is dishonest.

That's the part he can't handle. And same goes for me as well. It's a matter of how pure and strict we hold friendship to be.

Also, fuck lawyers.

>>3658229

>fighting against the innate self-preservation instinct
>cowardice when it wins

Stop being so ridiculously reductionist.

Probably will someday. I'll live and feel and try to be ok for as long as possible, but one day I will have had my fill of life and just go out quietly. I simply don't see a happy future being available. If the fates change that, maybe not.

>>3658305

You're just fucking socially dumb, that is all. First of all, you give lawyers a bad name. Those of use who love this profession really spit on the face of people like you who git here for the cash or because nothing else was there to study. The fact that you cannot find like minded people is not because of the branch you're in but because you're socially crippled. My circle is made of lawyers but not exclusively, because I understand that remaining in your own professional circle will not fulfill ALL the emotional and social needs that I have. Still, among the lawyers, I hand around with those who share the same stuff I like: opera, art galleries, and mother fucking football.

Stop stereotyping, snap up, and instead of whining do something you love. And, for the love of heaven, LEAVE mi beautiful professional A.S.A.P. You are a disgrace to our name.

And, by the way, there is nothing wrong with enjoying sometimes some lowbrow music like "nossa, nossa". I fucking dance it when I hang out with my wife and they play it in a party. ANd that doesn't make me less intellectual.

Fucking tolo coxo.

>>3658341

Shit, I must proof-read what I type before clicking submit.

>>3658325

Man, I'm a lawyer and I also dont like lawyers (but I dont like Judges the most).

I understand you: I also often feel artificial and fake when I'm talking to girls in parties, or with other people at parties. But that's something we have to learn to endure: people are not exactly as they appear in society, at parties. When you go out, you will not talk about deep things and cultural subjects: nobody talks about it at parties or social events; this, however, does not mean that people are empty or futile: the truth is that everyone wear a shell of artificiality in society, which is only broken when there is intimacy.

For example: you go out and meet a girl at a party: she will act in a certain way, a standard way of acting, that all girls usually have. But if you get her phone number and arrange a new meeting, a dinner, you're going to talk about different things: she will show that she is, indeed, a human being, and that has her peculiarities and individualities. You will see that what she was at the party she was not real.

And even my friends. They are not very cultural, but have their individuality, their opinions, their virtues.

>>3658332
>Stop being so ridiculously reductionist.

I cringed reading that.

>>3657673
you're still living though by being given life, not wanting it, but still living. how to rebel but to refuse it completely, or rebel in what way or form, doing weird shit?

>>3658341

I think it is you who gives lawyers a bad name: just by reading this short post it became clearly explicit the fact that you judge your profession extremely significant and important, and your air of arrogance and aggressiveness shows that you must always rubb in the face of others your "superiority" for being a so cultured and intelligent lawyer. But time does not usually remember the lawyers, unlike what happens with artists and scientists.

And "Nossa, nossa" is only the tip of the iceberg, my friend. You do not live in Brazil: you have no idea what exists beyond Michel Teló.

>>3658353
It's bullshit. No one should have to fake it. Some of us know we're faking it, but we still do it anyway. Goddamn life.

>>3658388

You don't know shit about me. And you know why? Because I do not post like a whiny little bitch in boards "boo hoo nobody is up to my level of intellectual superiority", when in reality you are only showing that you are a sad person who prostituted himself into a noble profession because of the cash, instead of having the balls of doing what really, really fulfilled you.

And, indeed, I no longer live in Brazil, but I lived there long enough to know that you are a whitish up-middle class spoiled brat like all the yuppies hanging around the discotheques of Rio, worried about vain things like the not-so-white Brazilians die in favelas created by the oppressive elite served by your kind.

>>3658341

Also, I produced many significant works in the field of law, even though I do not like the subject or the profession. One was highly praised: it made a plea for greater simplicity in legal language, for greater ease in the language of lawyers, judges and law operators in their resources,appeals, sentences and petitions.

The same work which required a simple and objective legal language also showed how legal issues can be worked with a magnificent and beautiful language: I analyzed the works of Shakespeare and collected the most important passages that dealt with the law, pointing out the beauty of his metaphors and similes. One of the most beautiful passages of Shakespeare about the law is the debate between Angelo and Isabella in Measure for Measure, and Lear's complaint about judges and law amid the storm.

I guess that even dont loving the profession I did not ashamed it: I had better grades and produced more significant works more than most of my colleagues, who loved Law.

>>3658415

This is the internet, dude. You can be Zizek for all I care.

>>3658401

You lived in Brazil? Where and why? I'm not from Rio de Janeiro, I'm from Rio Grande do Sul, southern tip of Brazil.

And it's true, I do not know you, but I know many arrogant lawyers, and your few phrases typed here showed me that you have great chanses to be a a specimen from this quite common group of people.

What I was trying to do was to help some people who appeared to be feeling sad; of course I do not have answers for everything, and I'm not a model for anything: but that does not stop me from feeling empathy for someone who appears to be suffering.

I'm too scared of death to kill myself.

>>3658401
>who prostituted himself into a noble profession because of the cash, instead of having the balls of doing what really, really fulfilled you.

Belive me, my friend, if it were that easy to feed myself, pay bills for water, electricity, telephone, with literature, I will just do it, just write: but it is not easy.

How many artists existed and still exist that needs help from others to exist, always borrowing money, begging for a room to sleep, living at the expense of others? I have dignity, and would try to never be depending on others.

I'm slowly publishing my works; maybe someday I can live on them.

You were lucky: the profession that you love is also a profession that gives you the means to survive, and even thrive. But do not think that it is so in all professions; it is very easy "Having balls" when society works in a way that favors you.

>>3658425

If you can read portuguese just give me your e-mail that I send you the work.

>>3658455
>I have dignity, and would try to never be depending on others.
You are though. Just in a different way. Independence is nonsense, there's just the question of through how many hoops you like to jump before feeling deserving of your treat.

I don't want to become skellington

>>3657635
I read Myth of Sisyphus well after my suicidal existentialist crisis, but fuck me that last line is so fucking beautiful I almost cried.

"We must imagine Sisyphus happy" just sums up the whole fucking 'life' thing so well, my god it's fantastically poetic oh god I can't stop cumming

>>3658523
cum with me brahhhhhhhhh

>>3658523
>babby's first mallcore extistentialism

>>3658508
You are the skellington already. Look in the mirror and realize that there is a skull under that layer of skin

>>3658546
>existentialism

Oh, boy.

>>3658553
oops.

>>3658523

I liked the Myth of Sisyphus but the end didnt really click for me. I just dont think I could find enjoyment out of such a meaningless life like that

At the darkest points of my life I thought it wouldn't be so bad if I died. I never thought about bringing the end about myself though.

Glad I did manage to stay alive though. Come to find out, life is fucking beautiful.

>>3658641

>life is beautiful

>>3657664
no you fuck if you die the world continues, obviously you will not feel/view/interpret again but it still exists,
some people have killed themselves after a loved one died not due to their death but because they felt that they were finally free to commit suicide

"guilt", it wont be felt after suicide
>fathers
>mothers
>husbands
>wifes
people with important social relationship are less likely to kill to kill themselves, but eventually if pushed enough they will

>>3657691
>stress-fueld tunnel vision for your real options.

sometimes there are no other options? some peoples realities can be extremely inflexible, lives become prison and suicide is a tunnel under the fence

>>3657716
This is really the only correct way of dealing with suicide.

>>3658646

>implying it isn't

>>3658673

>implying it is

It's not cowardly to think of suicide, nor is it to even attempt it. I used to contemplate suicide just about every single day. When I really sat down and thought about it though, I realized suicide isn't very coherent. It's basically ending your entire existence in order to end suffering or fix a problem. Without life, you not only have ended your suffering but also all that is wonderful. If you reassess your values and understand the root of your suffering, suffering will no longer exist. Suffering is caused by desire, so if you eliminate desire, you eliminate suffering, and thus, life has meaning through the absence of meaning. Look at the trees, look at the stars. Life is about being, not about becoming, so to worry about not becoming something you wish to become is futile.

>>3658646

I heard this movie is great, a colossal achievement. What can you tell me about it?

Why would you kill yourself if you were of sound enough mind to stop yourself from doing so? Resignation? Despair? Is this really excuse enough?

Chances are, barring speculation on the divine, you have an eternity to experience non-existence.

So why not experience existence right up to the point where you lose it to forces outside of your means to prevent? You most likely only have one chance to experience life after all. Why not take it to its furthest path possible?

“Let everything happen to you
Beauty and terror
Just keep going
No feeling is final”

― Rainer Maria Rilke

I don't have suicidal thoughts, but i do often think about if i would want to live to an age where all there is left to do is to suffer and wait for death.

I also hold the belief that men are entitled to commiting suicide since we all appreciate the right to self-determination. And if there is one asset that can never be alienated from us, it is our own life.

I feel saddened by the fact that class exists and causes so much depression and death, also among the work force of the west which has to suffer for surplus theory every time a crisis hits us. When will this wicked war of class end? Why are we utterly powerless? Please hold me /lit/

>>3658694

>>3658694

>implying it isn't

>>3658707
this baby gets it.

>>3658694
It is though. I would rather be in a state of constant agony for eternity than die. Why? Because life is all we have. Without out it, we are nothing.

>>3658694
that pic is beautiful. It's sad, but that sadness is beautiful. the fact that you can care for someone so much that you can shed tears for them is a lovely thing.

>>3658721
The fact that you will inevitably die counteracts any meaning or joy you can gain from life.

>>3658730
The fact that will inevitably die makes suicide pointless. Why not enjoy life's beauty while you can?

>>3658721
And thus as old eastern religions/philisophies have realized long ago, life is suffering. To alleviate suffering for others is enlightenment. This is not even some spiritual bullshit. The best feeling you can have which never presents itself as an attractive option is to give, to take burden. It is the most beautiful and amazing trait of the human species, regardless of darwinian explanations.

>>3658730
>implying I need meaning to enjoy either getting my dick sucked or watching a sunset

>>3658725
what the fuck man this pic is absolute 100% pure kitsch with crying eagles; it's all omg liek if u cry errytiem

>>3658730
No it doesn't.

>>3658341
>>3658401
>You don't know shit about me.

It is quite easy to see that you are an arrogant fagot.

Poor people that make up your social circle, they have to pretend a lot.

>>3658694
>tfw the viet kong don't even have a neat wall to stand crying in front of in an expensive suit but have to live among the ruins of the actual war

>>3658734
>Why not enjoy life's beauty while you can?
Because my inevitable death always remains with me. It's a knowledge that I can't unknow, and although it's presence fluctuates, it's always there to add a slight taint to anything pleasurable.

>>3658730
it does? Hm, I certainly don't see it that way. Maybe I'm just not smart enough.

>>3658694
Vietnam wasn't bad because of life.
Vietnam was bad because of imperialism and capitalism.

So now you know to fight.

>>3658697

I havent actually seen it. All I know is its a 9 hour holocaust docemtry and is supposed to be one of the greatest things ever made. I am getting the blu ray next time criterion has a sale

>>3658341
>2013
>liking football
You're a meathead

>>3658896
It's the closest thing I have to religion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1M730cYkic

>>3658825
So you can't enjoy a movie because it will end? You should practice some more non-attachment to get you over those hang-ups, friendo.

I've thought of suicide since I was a teenager. I can't come up with a solid argument for doing it or not doing it. Main reason I haven't done it is because I love my parents. My older brother hung himself last year and on that cold February morning when we all went to collect his things at the group home he was living in, I vowed to myself not to put my parents through that shit again. So I've probably got at least 25 years or more until they both die off and by then I'll be in my 50s so I might as well just go a little longer. That's the best answer I can give.

>>3659062

I hope this is just a joke ... but if its not, my friend, please do not think of things like that! If I can help you in any way ... even just by talking, please tell me.

>>3657754
That is awesome

When I was around the age of 19, I had left college with barely any qualifications whatsoever, (mostly due to excessive drug use and putting my social life over my studies) which left me with major depression. After getting turned away from every job I applied for, losing my childhood sweetheart due to my lack of a job and my Grandmother's death (I was extremely close with my Grandmother, she essentially raised me.) I was left in a spiralling bout of depression and drugs. Many nights I would sit on a street corner and just stare at the sky above me, thinking of all the possible routes I could have taken to avoid ending up "here". Many of these routes were suicide.

After some 6 months sleeping rough on the streets of East London, I was luckily enough to have been found with some Salvation Army volunteers. I've never really been a religious man, but the idea of spiritualism has always been and interest of mine.

To cut a long story short, I've since turned my life around, got a good enough job to be comfortable and am to be wed to my fiancée this Summer. What kept me going through my extremely turbulent life was simply staring up at the sky and imagining the possibilities of life, the very possibilities of my very existence. The very glimpse of hope that at some point, everything would be okay prevented me from just diving under a train on so many occasions.

No matter how bad things are now, or how bad they look, you'll come out the other side a stronger person. Strife and sorrow are vital emotions we must all experience.

>>3657674
>The only reason why I don't kill myself at the moment is because I know I will die later anyway, and that comforts me somehow.

Wow, this is seriously how I feel right now.

Suicide is bottom tier. I have multiple steps to descend first, such as homeless life, monastic life, asylum life, thug life, prison life, woodlife etc. There's too many interesting degeneration to be had.

>>3659565
>thug life
>a degeneration of yr current life

Struggled with it for a while but faith in God pulled me out of it. Camus also makes a very compelling argument about it from the perspective of the existential crisis; basically that man seeks to eliminate the problem of finding the meaning of life by eliminating one of the terms; life. But this does not solve the problem as there is no more meaning in death than there is in life.

Basically I'm not going through an existential crisis because of my faith, but if I was I wouldn't kill myself because that argument made me realize that there's still no meaning in suicide and therefore no point to it.

I thought of it when I was a teenager
now in seriousness
A few days ago I thought about it, but in a vengative way. I was really really angry at someone, and I thought of killing myself in front of that person, you know, blowing my brains after telling her "I blame you for everything" and I was thinking about it seriously, I was really mad and depressed and I was thinking I have nothing really important to accomplish anyway, and all that kind of stuff
Then I thought
I havent lived yet, how about going away, meet the world, go on a survival trip and if I die well, that was my plan anyways.
That very thought gave me relief.Havent done that but now I know that there is something better than suicide, by far, and it provides an escape from this monotonous living and lack of purpose.

>>3659018

You still remember the movie after it's done. The analogy doesn't quite stack up.

>>3659590

Who was the person to you?

>>3659590
>you know, blowing my brains after telling her "I blame you for everything" and I was thinking about it seriously,
ugh such a cheap way to go.

If you commit suicide it shouldnt be BECAUSE of anyone. And it definitely shouldn't be done as some tool.

It should be a willful act that is solely hoping to end your life. No alterior motives

I've entertained the notion of my own suicide for as long as I can remember, and I imagine I will for about as long as I live. I've never come very close to actually committing the act, save for the very occasional mental determination to do so which is usually dissuaded.

Basically my fear of death overcomes my apathy for life. I have no faith in any afterlife, and yet also no faith in any real purpose in living. Our culture's obsessive cherishing and special positioning of life in most of its forms (particularly humanity) is entirely baffling for me; the horror of suicide and euthanasia is to me little more than cultural baggage. Ultimately, it seems to me that what happens in life is fairly inconsequential, given the fact that everyone dies, and death is nothing; if every human were to die in an instant, every human would be instantly forgotten.

The problem is, once you take that exit, you don't get to take it back. And the thought of death as some sort of unthinking void without any experience is incredibly disquieting to me. If it were possible, I would choose a life of any kind if it could forestall death perpetually. But the fact is, that death is entirely inevitable; but putting it off seems entirely pointless. Yet why rush to something that I fear more than any other thing?

I think I'll turn it over in my head until I die.

This is all very simple.

You can't kill yourself yet, OP. You haven't read all of the good books yet.

I read John Zerzan and decided not to kill myself.

>>3659565
You can't just choose the thug life.

Think of life like an H.G. Wells novel. The first few chapters are likely to be drawn on and boring, but tge excitement may pick up any minute.

>>3658673
>that movie sucks, dude

>>3659953
for anybody who hasnt seen this, its about how life sucks for a lot of people out there

Why do i fear death, but eternal life at the same time?

Well for me I accidentally saved myself by taking four vicodin so the razor wouldn't hurt. the day before I drank plenty of fluids made sure no one was around the day of and took a razor to my wrist. I got down to the muscle and fat about three inches before the vicodin kicked in and decided I needed a nap. it takes a lot of effort to cut yourself and I had feather razors so they were damn sharp. maybe it's just my will power but it didn't seem as easy as the royal tennenbaums made it out to be

I woke up in the ER spent two weeks in a hospital came out with MDD w/ Psychosis, PTSD and Borderline.

now I'm on lithium 300 twice a.day for suicidal thoughts,
remeron 30 for depression, prazosin for nightmares and risperdal 4 for paranoia and voices. I was on valium 40 a day but my psych is anti benzo and I'm withdrawing cold turkey and I was on that dosage for 8 months.

To be honest I'm thinking of taking all my pills and see where I end up.because this.withdrawal is a bitch and I'd rather not spend the next year in pain and panic attacks.

then I think I have books unread and two friends I'd dearly miss.

>>3659625
This is me. Basically.

I was born to powerful parents. I was considered as a brilliant kid: teachers praised me, I knew 3 languages when I was 5, I loved reading and I had answer to almost everything. Almost everybody at school hated me, for some reason. They bullied me so I decided to disappear: I hid myself during recess so nobody would bully me. From that time, I never trust anybody.
I grew up and went to a prestigious university. I was the youngest one and I had the highest grades and the most acclaim from my professors. But my life is still bland. I never had any sexual desire, I had never fallen in love. I will never be as powerful and reckless as my parents. I have always been alone and I will live with solitude forever. What a shame. What a downfall. The lineage will go extinct with me.

I thought about it, but then I thought: "I have nothing to live for, yet I have nothing to die for"

>>3660170
I kind of want there to be another Spanish Civil War-type event, so I can join up as a volunteer. Then either I'll die fighting for a worhty-ish cause, or when I come out I'll have something to write about.
Syria doesn't seem like that event though. I don't know.

>>3660203
Would you be fighting for the Republic or the Nationalists? Or the anarchists?

>>3657790

>ctrl+f
>"overpopulation"
>0 out of 0 results

Fucking selfish plebs

>>3657621
What keeps me from going through with suicide? Well being a Massachusetts native the only thing more painful and harrowing than hanging oneself is trying to get a gun license in the inner city. So with those two options being eliminated I suppose I'm left with drowning myself... I hear that's a dreadful way to go.

I'm a coward. There it is. As for meaning of life well... lolz? I can't think of it as anything remotely serious.

>>3660237
I'd fight for the Republicans then get executed by the Communists[/spoilers]

>>3658709
>implying that child won't grow up to be a rapist

>>3660254
caring about overpopulation is the epitome of being selfish

>>3658740
>implying tomorrow she won't break up with you
>implying you don't move to Alaska by some sad and tragic freak occurrence and/or
>implying nuclear war won't block out the sun.

>>3658858
Why wasn't Vietnam bad because of communism? Was Vietnam bad because of differing ideologies? Was Vietnam bad because of weapons? Was Vietnam bad because of... humans?

>>3660280
Explain?

>>3658646
thanks for this title, I have no idea how I could not have ever heard about it in my life

>>3659086
you can help me with dollars, pls respond

>>3659167
fuck yeah gassed jews coming out the other side a stronger person

>>3659086
PLEASE DO NOT THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM ME!!!!!

>>3660148
what is shameful about it? shame is just another socially induced control mechanism

what makes a downfall? power is ultimately worthless, you dine with the best but die like the rest

you need some existentialism up in this bitch

>>3657658
I take it you have never had someone close to you die? Suicide is no different. The idea of a son or daughter or sibling committing suicide is one of the most painful things you can experience. This need not merely be 'selfish indignation', people do care about other though you may not believe it.

>>3660280
Explain?

A close friend's ex try to kill himself outside her house the other day because she broke up with her.

Good riddance, if he'd actually loved her then he wouldn't do such a thing to her.

>>3660291
>>3660374
Not that anon, I'd imagine it's because you value the present over the future, and no good can come of that.

Anyone ever read Minois' History of Suicide: Voluntary Death in Western Culture? Pretty fascinating scholarly work on the subject.

>Have you ever thought about suicide, /lit/?
Frequently every day.

>What kept you from going through with it?
Whim or chance: lack of adequate means, family crisis and a sense of guilt telling me to not add to the shitpile, I was even saved from hanging myself once by a jogger in a park, straight-up dangling from the bridge and the Good Samaritan pulled me up and called an ambulance.

>Did you read anything that changed your mind or something that has made you more sure of going through with it?
I'm sure there are things I've read that have influenced my view of existence as futile, brutal, and bleak, but that was really instilled in me through a bland, yet mildly shitty childhood. I agree with the various Stoics that argued suicide as a rational act in certain contexts. If your life is that displeasing, and you know there are no steps to take to alleviate your suffering, and added to this you know your suffering hinders your ability to experience happiness/joy/duty, why continue suffering?
But that's a pretty rare context to find yourself in.
In the end, I think any arguments against suicide are moot points. People who are justified in killing themselves and do didn't need arguments for or against. People who aren't justified in killing themselves and do were in no state to listen to argument for or against. Everyone else isn't really going to kill themselves.

>>3659983
>life sucks for a lot of people
>therefore dismiss life
>le egalitarian sentiment face
>not regarding the plebs as the pyramid supporting the excellent few