/lit/ - Literature

>>3641258

And this relates to /lit/ exactly how?

>>3641258
No, but I do have emotional problems.

>>3641266

Go pay for a shrink, schmuck.

>>3641268
Just mark it eight, dude.

pacifism is for faggots and pansy-ass cocksuckers

>>3641264
>And this relates to /lit/ exactly how?
Until we get /phil/, you have to deal with the vague babby philosophy threads.

>>3641299

That's what people get for being progressive, diplomatic, non-conflict-seeking humans.

People are idiots.

>>3641304
Pacifism is not progressive.

>>3641319
And violence is?

>>3641323
Yes. Do you even recognise the importance of military matters regarding technological development? Tis by the virtues of violence that we can 4chin all day.

>>3641319

Doesn't matter.

>hey guys, let's try not to go first to the guns, eh? Let's try to be reasonable
>NO U. U COCKSUCKIN FAGET

Primitive brutes.

This topic brings me to that worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor... This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!

BANG

BANG

>a guy just broke down your door
>stabs your wife in the face
>stabs your son in the face
>stabs your dog in the face
>walks towards you and raises his knife
>I WUNT DEFEND MESELF BECUS OF IDEAAALS

>>3641328
Life is good in this society, man. Do you even adapt?

According to James Martin, when referring to the world scene of the mid-1930s in private correspondence, Tucker wrote: "Capitalism is at least tolerable, which cannot be said of Socialism or Communism" and went on to observe that, "under any of these regimes a sufficiently shrewd man can feather his nest.".

>>3641258

No.

Conflict is one of the largest sources of cultural development.

World peace would mean cultural assimilation and stagnation. Fuck the hippies.

>>3641333

This is a ridiculous example. Besides, this kind of pacifism does not exist and it is not the kind of pacifism we're dealing with. This is the kind of argument you'd expect to hear from someone with the intellectual rigor equivalent to that of a first-grader.

>>3641335

>Tucker
>feather his nest

>>3641337

>I have never heard of Gandhi

>>3641335

>>3641337
>I have never heard of Martin Luther King

>>3641337

>I have never heard of Jesus

>>3641344
>>3641347

Extreme examples. They exist, but they are not the rule. And again, this is not the kind of pacifism most people subscribe to. Most pacifists would, when pressed, defend themselves.

And don't you think that they were okay with using weaponry to fight the Nazis? Again: his 100% pacifism is simply impossible.

>>3641337

>3641337

>1337

Confirmed for edgy gamer, please leave /lit/.

>>>v/

>>3641349

>probably didn't even exist

>>3641352

I'm pretty sure that most pacifists G-man and MLK as idols, and a lot of them would do exactly as they did (that's at least my experience with pacifists, as opposed to those opposed to violence, which is not exactly the same thing).

Also the only problem with the Nazi's was that they burned books. Other than that it was a pity that they lost.

>>3641356

*pacifists have.

>>3641356
>Also the only problem with the Nazi's was that they burned books. Other than that it was a pity that they lost.

And with that you lost all credibility and everything you have said and will say can be ignored completely.

>>3641355
>Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

>>3641359

What? Why? Name something bad about the Nazi's except for their anti-intellectualism.

It goes like this

>Don't fuck with me, I wont fuck with you

>>3641345
Living in modern social liberal west europe semicapitalism is delicious. I distrust hardline leftists since they tend to force people to work even more than capitalists do. I don't get how proles can be so obsessed about work ethic.

>>3641370

Libertarian pls go

no that would be dumb since everything else in the universe would kill me without thinking anything of it.

>>3641370
But what happens when they fuck with you anyway? Do you fuck with them back? Or do you refuse to fuck with them and maintain moral superiorty?

>>3641372
>what is the social contract
>what is the golden rule

>>3641376

Locke pls go

>>3641375
>But what happens when they fuck with you anyway

You fuck them until they like it

>>3641383

>Christianity in a nutshell

>>3641384
>tfw raised Protestant

>>3641391
>tfw raised Protestant

>>3641333
Typical /pol/ fear mongering

>>3641333

I raise hands, tell him pls don't gill meh bud as soon as I ged de opportunidy I call bolice :-DDDDD

Only the warrior can choose pacifism. All others are doomed to it.

'Nothing good ever comes of violence'

- Nobody Intelligent Ever

>>3641266
Me too. Let's be friends.

>>3641461
Good things come of violence, don't be silly. But wars in reality are just really fucking stupid, even if that stupidity does have some side-effects.

>>3641472

This. We should work towards world peace even though it is not achievable, simply because wars will happen anyway but it's nicer if less of them happen.

>>3641460
my nigger

>>3641472
>yeah, well, rape is really stupid but at least it does have some good things about it for one side at least

Except in war, no one really wins.

>>3641480

Except the jews.

>>3641474
I think peace can come about. Obviously not overnight, and not really in the ways most people try to achieve it i.e. taking their clothes off, or campaigning for disarmament.

Globalisation and economic integration is really the only way we can hope for universal peace. I mean, look at the EU. No country in the EU will go to war with another country in the EU, because their economies and societies are so integrated that it just wouldn't be viable. We just have to wait for that integration to be global, and then perhaps humanity can start to achieve its potential.

>>3641480
That's the dumbest strawman I've seen in my entire life.

>>3641482
I hope you don't actually believe that

Even if you don't, go back to /pol/. That kind of shit is dumb, even ironically.

>>3641483

But centralization is bad. It is much more destructive than war in itself, and it assimilates cultures like nothing else. The best we can hope for in my opinion is a decentralized world community with peace treaties (everyone has womd, so it becomes necessary).

>>3641483

That's not a strawman.

>>3641492
I see absolutely no problem with the assimilation of cultures. Nothing of any real value is lost.

>>3641488

The point is that the guys pulling the strings and selling the iron win.

"Common men fear misfortune; extraordinary men turn it to their benefit" -. Some jew

>>3641496

I mean that's like your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but it's fucking stupid and I think you should stop wasting my oxygen.

>>3641488
>not knowing what 'the jews' means

>>3641497
Well yeah. You look at the war in Iraq, and the entire point of that was basically to make a bunch of America capitalists ridiculously wealthy under the pretense of 'freedom'.

>>3641502
Not him bit what's wrong with assimilating cultures?

>>3641502
Fantastic. Why should cultures not be assimilated?

Give one logical, tangible reason that humanity shouldn't unite into one coherent nation, capable of actually progressing human culture, rather than clinging to the vestiges of long dead culture?

>>3641506

Well except for the fact that the advancement of mankind kinda depends on cultural advancement, and cultural advancement depends on cultural diversity, so if we don't want to advance ourselves no no problem at all officer.

>>3641509
liberal brainwashing

>>3641512
What?

>>3641509

Because culture is not newtonian, faget.

>>3641515

I think he meant to say cosmopolitan scum. Pretty similar, really.

>>3641510
Right. Look at the EU. How many of the countries within that have lost their culture? None?

WOAH! I guess you're wrong. Fuck off.

>>3641510
>cultural advancement depends on cultural diversity

>>3641515
>Give one logical, tangible reason that humanity shouldn't unite into one coherent nation, capable of actually progressing human culture, rather than clinging to the vestiges of long dead culture
liberal brainwashing

>>3641518

Well, mine (Sweden) has, but I guess it would have anyway.

>>3641509

Sure, it was dandy what the US did in Iraq wasn't it? Great victory for mankind and culture!

>>3641522
I said logical and tangible.

>>3641526
>cherry picking

>>3641527

Liberal brainwashing may not be logical, but it is very tangible.

>>3641526
What has that got to do with economic integration?

>>3641529
What do you mean by liberal brainwashing?

>>3641528

Okay, how about

>Chile
>Afghanistan
>Colonialism
>SK
>Japan

>>3641532
I fail to see what any of these have to do with my point about economic integration.

>>3641531
'muh equality'
'muh multiculturalism'

>>3641530

Well, I mean, it's not like they destroyed some of the oldest cities in the world and smacked up a few McDonald's instead, is it?

>>3641536
You're not actually saying anything.

I'm a pacifist reactionary.

>>3641535

What is your point about economic integration? The economic integration is a radical form of the capitalist ideology, and even if it was beneficial to those it was forced upon it would still be destroying cultures.

>>3641537
Nothing you are saying has anything to do with my point about economic integration.

>>3641540
A lot of amerifats like to call any reasonable opinions, like universal healthcare, egalitarianism, and so on, "liberal brainwashing"

>>3641547

>egalitarianism
>reasonable opinion

>>3641542
My point is look at the EU. It's impossible for any of those countries to declare war on each other, due to economic integration. Yet they all retain their culture. Eventually, as other economies grow and prosper, they'll join this economic network, still retaining their culture, and then it won't be profitable for any country to declare war on another. At that point, humanity is free to start advancing.

And anyway, you still haven't explained why the loss of 'culture' is a bad thing.

>>3641547
>oh god oh god im fucking retared hurr durr durf hurr

>>3641551
>>3641548
Then what point are you trying to make? You seem to be capable of talking only in shitty memes. Maybe if you attempted to string together a coherent sentence, people might take you more seriously.

>>3641550
The EU is failing and will completely collapse in 10-20 years. After that, nobody knows what's going to happen.

>>3641556
If you say so.

>>3641550

I HAVE explained why the loss of culture is a bad thing, but if you don't agree I'm not going to force you to. We are at such a fundamental disagreement here that I don't think there is anything we can agree upon other than our form of written communication.
Also whoah buddy look at how the EU is prospering.

>>3641562
Where did you describe why the loss of culture was a bad thing? Was it that bit where you said that 'cultural diversity was essential to cultural advancement'? Because that was kind of bullshit.

>>3641562
Also:
Nobody in the EU has gone to war with another country in the EU. That was my point. Whether or not they're doing well economically is another matter entirely, and none one really related to this arugment.

>>3641565

We disagree about it being bullshit, but saying that culture in itself has no value must be some extreme form of radical retard-nihilism. The exact same strawman can be pulled on any other value "why is human suffering bad?" (you seem like a liberal and most liberals think that human suffering is bad), why is economic growth good, why is life good etc etc etc.

>>3641566

I never said that the peace treaty part of the Union was a bad thing.

>>3641558
The Eurozone is falling apart (just look at Cyprus) and a lot of countries are getting tired of the EU enforcing its bullshit laws on everyone. The UK is at the forefront of Euroscepticism and will most likely to be the first to pull out in the next decade or so which will cause a domino effect most likely starting with France.

>>3641569
No, I value culture. I just think it's ludicrous to sacrifice peace and current and future culture, purely to preserve culture from the past.

>>3641573

France fucking loves the EU, they will be last out. I bet Germany will follow UK's lead, though.

>>3641575

And I think it's ludicrous to sacrifice local autonomy and cultural diversity in favour of centralized governance. I don't think peace in itself is bad; I think enforced peace is bad.

>>3641573
I live in the UK, and it really isn't. The BNP are a joke, and UKIP is a joke. Cameron is starting a referendum purely to ensure that UKIP doesn't get any more popularity than it does, which is very little. Any anti-EU rhetoric is just that.

9/10 British citizens are perfectly happy with the EU.

>>3641580

I think it depends on where you live and what type of people you associate with. I have heard the exact opposite from a couple of my British friends.
It's kinda like liberals in the US saying "I have no idea how bush could have been re-elected, I don't know anyone who voted for him!".

>>3641579
Well that's your opinion. However, I think you should research the unification of Germany. It's basically what's happening now, on a slightly smaller scale.

At the time they were all about particularism and nationalism, and now they aren't, because in the long-run, economic integration proved to be far better for everyone involved. That is what will happen to the world in time, and there's very little your ludicrous reactionary rhetoric can do to prevent it.

>>3641580
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscepticism_in_the_United_Kingdom#Eurobarometer_survey_2009

>>3641586
It's really not like that at all, but I appreciate your input. 4236192 plegge

>>3641576
>France fucking loves the EU
no they don't

>>3641594

They hate everyone in the EU and want them to leave, but they love the EU.

>>3641589

I don't think that the purposed benefits of economic integration are actually beneficial, but I guess we are just coming from two widely different directions here.

>>3641602
Read up on German unification, and then you might be able to see where I'm coming from.

>>3641609

That was 250 or 30 years ago, depending on how you count.

>>3641611
It was about 150 years ago.

>mfw left/right battle of the spooks

>>3641611
>>3641613

*150, sorry for retardation. I can't into mathematics.

>>3641323

It's led to far more progress than pacifism.

>in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

>2013
>not defining one's own values

>>3641480
>Except in war, no one really wins.

Plenty of people do actually, except those who die and their relatives.

>>3641483
>I mean, look at the EU.

Yes - look at it.

Look at what a fucking disaster it has become and how the common currency is becoming a burden and detriment to all involved.

>>3641337
You should watch Trigun.

>>3641653

Oh get out of here. We are doing great in the EU.

Well, at least those of us who are educated and work in the financial speculation sector. You have no idea how well we are doing and how fat those bonuses are.

I am buying soon another summer house in an unnamed Spanish beach town where people are swimming in debt.

Like a boss.

>>3641509
>capable of actually progressing human culture,

Do you really want to live in a world where American culture dominants completely? Because that is what will happen - one culture to rule them all and all else shunted aside or to the fringe.

Consider "globalization" and "diversity". I put those terms in quotation marks because the ideal and reality are so far apart that they're almost completely different concepts. The ideal idea of globalization and diversification is the diversification of cultural input and cultural output. That gives enough variety in the mechanical structure of society to avoid catastrophic collapse. Instead of that ideal the reality of the situation is that the culturally dominant group pushes there own output input and cultural processing methods on the the rest of the cultural sea and then passes judgement in an attempt to demonize a group of peoples for its own agenda

Globalisation is destroying every culture in the world, exploiting the developing world, and stripping Western nations of self-sustainability.

It'll eventually crash and burn and nationalism will become the norm again.

>>3641657

I'm sure your life is very fulfilling.

>>3641657
Welfare leech reporting in, doing fine as well. It's all the silly mules in between that are having a hard time.

>>3641580
>9/10 British citizens are perfectly happy with the EU.

1/10 don't want in, 1/10 want in, 8/10 don't give a fuck and just want to get on with their lives without foreign meddling from a European government.

>>3641658

This. It doesn't matter what we want/envision; imperialism will be a non-concept in the future when technological aptitude becomes so wide-spread that city-nations can self-rule without any major external threats.

>>3641660

You bet.

>>3641667

*high five*

>>3641658
I for one get a sort of perverse pleasure out of decadence and cultural downfall. Let the chips fall where they may.

>>3641682

Same here. Something must be wrong with us.

>>3641701
Ever read Sade?

>>3641727

No, but it's on my list.

Only when I smoke weed

>>3641732
Philosophy in the Bedroom is a good start since it offers a lot of libertine dialogue and reasoning. The New Justine and Juliette are more story like and fun but a bit repetitive with the potential to become tiresome.

A lot of people gravitate to 120 Days of Sodom for their first exposure to Sade, but it's the least interesting of his works. Mostly just gore and dullness and an almost mathematical implication of malevolent hedonism.

The reason I mentioned it though is because a lot of his libertine characters tend to embrace mischief for its own sake as a pleasurable pastime, which relates to the cultural deterioration as amusing sentiment. Only in this case it's taken to comical Sadean extremes with people delighting in corruption the youth, framing innocents for crimes and even deliberately planning famines for entertainment purposes.

>>3641819

Hm, I will read as per your suggestion. Have you read Les Chants de Maldoror, by any chance?

>>3641845
No, but I've been interested in it. My French has degraded to nearly non-existent levels though and in the case of translated poetry I always feel like I'm missing something.

>>3641887

But I swear I will learn french one of these years.

>>3641887
Worthwhile enough I assume then?

>>3641886

I read a translation.

>>3641890

Yes, but it would definitely be better in French.

yes, but i recognise that not everyone has that luxury.

also Ghandi is a dick.

>>3641644
mathematics would like a word with you.