/lit/ - Literature

compared to the past, we have longer life expediencies and shorter attention spans. I hate it.

There are more interesting things, like the RAF from England shooting down a German bomber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJWDl4j-wHU

>>3562190
I say you are wrong, as the continued success of amazon and gutenberg suggest

But years from now all those folks will be able to pull out their devices and show their grandkids a nice little glowing image that is sure to capture the younguns' attention for all of 4 seconds.

>>3562219
I wonder if it is possible to run away from that.
I will be very hard to raise decent children in the future.

It will soon be time for the great purge OP, don't worry.

Literature has always been in the hands of the few that mattered. From clerics copying manuscripts by hand to the future, when Ph.D.s in literature pretty much decide what will be read 100 years beyond their lives. It's always, always been like this. There were no glory days where everyone was reading masterful works and craving more.

If you think iPhone apps compete with literature, you're probably just pretending to enjoy literature.

I don't see how having a majority of people who don't read much is any worse than having a majority of people that can't read at all. The latter was true when a lot of great works were written.

>>3562245
>There were no glory days where everyone was reading masterful works and craving more.

Dostoeyvsky, Dickens, Dumas and plenty of other greats published some of their best works as serials.

>>3562263
>I don't see how having a majority of people who don't read much is any worse than having a majority of people that can't read at all.
Oh, tripfag, what a nice quote you stole.

“The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.” ― Mark Twain

>>3562278
What? I actually didn't know the quote, but whatever, it still makes my post useless because I'll never be able to say anything as well as Mark Twain.

>>3562231
"2 world wars and 1 world cup, England, England."

I'm less worried about the death of literature, and more worried about the death of imagination. I thought of all sorts of shit while riding my bus to school as a kid and just staring out the window. There is becoming less and less space to think, and that is terrifying.

>>3562269

In publications for people that could read, which wasn't a high percentage, especially not among those that weren't wealthy.

Literature was still some Patrician shit, yo.

>>3562290
And soon it will return to just that. The plebes will be to busy with angry birds to read anything and the demand for more intelligent lit will increase

>>3562190

>Mfw I read books all week at work thanks to audiobooks and modern "attention span stealing" technology.

> Mfw I breeze through at least 8 books in the past year completely at work while making money.

> Mfw I write novels in my free time, and know plenty of people who read.

> Mfw the people who don't read enough become cashiers and construction workers while I go on to do amazing things.

>>3562231
>>3562284
Do Americans have this same culture around baseball?

>>3562302
Or, rather to the contrary, the intelligent lit from these days will begin to be discovered, while that being written continues down the road of weak, pandering bullshit.

>>3562308
>audiobooks
Not even once

>>3562309
Baseball is a dying sport, we prefer our Football and basketball these days.

>>3562285
God i didn't see things this way.. This is really frightening

>>3562311
>intelligent lit from these days will begin to be discovered
Name something intelligent written after 2010

Worry about yourself.

>>3562319
Will Self – Umbrella

>>3562319
I don't know, we haven't fucking discovered it yet. That's literally the entire purpose of what I just said.

>>3562319
It hasn't been discovered yet, that's the point.
Fucking hell you moron.

>>3562322
Where do you find these? I have a pretty hard time trying to find decent modern literature because Stephen King and the like take up the attention of most lit media

>>3562323
>>3562324
Your mad is delicious.

>>3562331
*You're

>>3562324

Well, it looks like that image is becoming an obsession.
Andy Warhol feared it.
Guy Debord feared it. (See "The Society of Spectacle")

The world is nothing more than an image of itself.

>>3562331
>lololol i trol u al a clvr ruse
Responding with "Your mad is delicious" when someone points out you've said something idiotic doesn't make you less of an idiot. If anything, it compounds it for deluding yourself otherwise.

>>3562334
*Yore

>>3562331
oh, god, it seem's you've thrown me for the wool over my eyes. After all, it's completely obvious that this was a planned-out ruse and not a fault in logic which you later tried to cover up.

I fucking hate this world, people can't even manage to watch films these days

>any time I watch a film with other people
>all of them are absorbed in facebook on their phones, barely glancing at the film
>"wtf that movie was sooo confusing"

How the fuck can you not be able to watch a fucking film?

>>3562343
YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN A SNAFU

>>3562348
You can't even go to a pub and talk for a few minutes without before everyone begins texting and "facebooking"

>>3562348
Your fault for bringing friends over to watch Michael Snow films.

>>3562308
>read
>audiobook

Pffft. I read movies; I went to the theater to read "The hobbit" in 3D a couple months ago.

As this thread demonstrates, people can just learn retorts by rote that imply they were right all along.

No need to understand logic or debate or conversation, no need to ever admit you were wrong - even to yourself!
Just pick the most appropriate comeback from a pre-written list and, as though it were a game of verbal rock-paper-scissors, if you've pick the right one; you win!

With such classic phrases as
- Your mad is delicious.
- Ha Ha Oh Wow
- >implying
- This is what X actually believe
- 6/10
- jimmyrustle.jpg
- Everyone above this line was trolled.jpg
and many many more!

Now YOU can always get the last word in and feel superior, no matter how wrong you were!

>>3562391
>implying any of that trolling was serious

>>3562329
Not that guy but:
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/bw

is a good source for new novels and poetry

>>3562391
sic transit gloria mundi

>>3562412
- >implying
- jimmyrustle.jpg

Are you being ironic now, then? That makes it okay.

>>3562418
It was a ruse, yes.

>>3562421
I realise a lot wasn't in this thread but it does seem to be a problem on the internet in general.
Intellectual poison.

>>3562313
>>3562382


What's wrong with audiobooks?

>>3562442
Nothing. They are great for when reading isn't possible, like when driving or listening to the missus talk about how she hates Gina at work because Chantelle was all like "OMG did you see what That bitch Gina did?" and my missus was like "No, like OMFG, tell me what," and Chantelle was all like"That bitch just was all like..."

>>3562442
I really enjoy audiobooks. Hell, it seems like a great narrator can make a shitty book into a decent one.

>>3562450
>>3562461

I agree to both, I recently started listening to them and it's almost better than reading.

What's annoying is that you require very little exposure to history and culture to hold a view as immature and naive as OP's, or this
>>3562348

Why don't you stop worrying about how much of a sheep your highschool classmates are and your middle class coworkers and read a book or two yourself? Fuck.

>>3562450

>>3562470
"Why am I the only one thinking? I'm completely surrounded by sheep!" -Everyone ever

>>3562481
See:
>>3562231

>>3562470
the thought of other people being sheep probably does come from being smug/setting yourself above them, insecurities and stuff

i still find it interesting to know if people were always like this or if things are changing?
i catch myself having arguments with myself a lot, getting annoyed that my sister is always on her phone when we are watching something and thinking this technology is bad, but then how do i know things have not always been like this

sorry for being sophomoric and probably saying something self evident

>>3562435
>Intellectual poison.

Why? It's mocking dumb things. I'm being completely sincere when I say that I believe the concept of trolling in imageboard culture and how it has developed into "ruseman" as a reaction to its dilution and how that's now being used ironically is a very postmodern thing.

I enjoy it. I think you're just looking at it the wrong way, it's not like this thread or the people they're subverting was worthwhile or "intellectual" in any way. It's nice to see people exploiting the stupidity of the posters and devolving the thread into confusion.

>>3562335
Just posting that doesn't negate the fact that what you said was embarrassingly stupid

>>3562488
Well, see, the problem here is that you're just not exposed to enough culture. These aren't new thoughts, they've been explored in all forms of art thoroughly.

And you gave very vague views on technology but yes, similar things have been thought in past generations, especially post-industrial. Culturally, the world has moved far beyond "getting annoyed that my sister is always on her phone when we are watching something and thinking this technology is bad".

Try reading Don Delillo's White Noise. It's an accessible, intelligent postmodern book that's still relevant to the contemporary world. I don't know much lit commenting intelligently on the internet, which is a pretty unique element of our world, but there is a ton of net.art.

>>3562515
>I don't know much lit commenting intelligently on the internet
you might want to check out this new, revolutionary author named TAO LIN
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307950174/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0307950174&linkCode=as2&tag=taolintumpre-20

PURCHASE HERE
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307950174/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0307950174&linkCode=as2&tag=taolintumpre-20

>>3562492
You're not considering the full effects of irony. It's a great technique in moderation, but unfortunately it's so simple and easy to use that too often people end up relying on it when they don't have anything better to say. Not only does it stunt the development of other possible creative aspects, but consider the following: a small community where everyone is hyper-ironic will basically lead to the complete reversal of the group philosophy. In other words, complete irony leads to complete hypocrisy.

Actually, I don't know how much you know about /fit/ culture, but the whole "SS is a troll" troll might make the perfect example. SS is the starting strength program for powerlifting, and people constantly argue about its roots; some believe it is a valid lifting program, while others believe it was first suggested to newfags as a troll and that the results it offers are sketchy.

Not that I read much of him, but I read somewhere that DFW explored these ideas in great length (the ones on irony, I mean. There is no evidence to support that Wallace did squatz & oatz). This is just my personal opinion on the matter, though. I can't speak for what he actually said.

>>3562525
there he is; ban him!

>>3562525
Tao Lin doesn't comment much on the internet. Alt lit's grown out of the internet and heavily influenced by it the same as net.art, but does not really turn it's attention towards it. Still, his body of work does definitely touch on lots of modern topics and represent a specific perspective that's relatable to a large part of this generation.

I know you're taking the piss but I sincerely enjoy him.

As if the Youth of today were not faced with enough of a grey ocean they must tread beyond to engage in a proper book.

It is true what the Scholars say: if you do not read (at least 800 pages of Literature and/or Philosophy per fortnight [and no--Twilight, Left Behind, Tuesday's with Morrie, Tom Clancy, The Kite Gatherer, Jack Reacher books, 97% of religious themed folderol, science fiction/fantasy, Harry Potter, etc. most certainly do not rise above the level of American Idol]) there is, frankly, no discernible difference between you and a a hopelessly illiterate child who cannot distinguish a proper Encyclopedia from a nasally extracted mucous remnant.

This photograph, as far as I am concerned, is virtually a Mathematical Proof of society's Cultural and Literary Terminal Cancer. I suspect these these "Smart" telephones (you see? they mock you with the very name!) will soon cease to be electronic and move more into the realm of biological sciences. They will become symbiotic parasites that you simply attach to your face that fill you with dopamine, maple syrup, and mediocrity. A never-ending source of mediocrity right into your very endocrine system and a modicum of the Soul a user may have left.

I tried to use a Hi Pod once. It was utterly atrocious. 5 minutes of attempting to reread my favorite translation of The Aeneid and a torrent of involuntary stomach acid forced my valve open. I vomited without cessation for the better part of a half hour.

I weep, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, I weep.

>>3562691
>I sincerely enjoy him.
May I ask why? I very much like his early work, but everything starting with Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy is, at least to me, pure junk.

The internet has lowered my attention so much. I need immediate gratification in all things now. I can't even watch movies anymore without pausing periodically to receive some information morsel off the internet. I can only imagine what the internet is doing to people who don't know what its like to live without it.

>>3562714
>This photograph, as far as I am concerned, is virtually a Mathematical Proof of society's Cultural and Literary Terminal Cancer.

Oh my god I can't stop laughing

>>3562714
>today in English IV honors, we read Brave New World

>>3562714

Go to bed John Kennedy Toole

>>3562739
>honors

Boy, I wish

>>3562714

Ignatius Reilly pls go 2 bed

>>3562739

If you're actually not getting that...just...wow.

>>3562716
He just fits nicely in my tastes. I like his sense of humor, I like that his works are injected with humor, I like that his media portrayal of himself is an extension of his works, I can relate to his anxiety, depression, his taste in drugs, some aspects of his lifestyle.

I don't really care about him in terms of literature, I look at it as one whole body of work, that includes himself as a person and his social network accounts. Kind of like Jeremy Bailey. I think what's most important is I think he's funny, that's what I appreciate the most.

>>3562755
So you're really not into his books or literature in general? You find yourself more attracted to the idea of literature and the aura of the writer rather than the actual art itself? Just wondering where you're coming from.

>Jeremy Bailey
What is a Jeremy Bailey?

>>3562770
I mean, I enjoy his writing, but I don't think it's separate from his twitter or an interview, and it's mostly for the sake of his humor. He's almost a comedian, the appreciation is really just entertainment.
I mean, I don't like all of it. A lot I'll just disregard. I like his dry, absurd style like in American Apparel and his blog essays in the style of megamouth shark, but my favorite "work" would be The Gawker NYU trespassing "tale".

>What is a Jeremy Bailey?
A Famous New Media Artist.

>>3562803
>Jeremy Bailey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Wmh7qqQgQ

>>3562803
>I like his dry, absurd style like in American Apparel
I'll grant that it was dry (boring, actually). But how was it "absurd"? I guess you and I just have different ideas of what "absurd" means.

>A Famous New Media Artist.
Can't be that "famous". I've never heard of him. (Then again I find myself repelled by artsy people and generally avoid them and their "culture". So I guess there is no reason for me to know who this guy is.)

>>3562808
Exactly what I mean. Just seems like another dopey, ritalin-addled, rich white kid that feels that every poop they plop is important and worthy of sharing with the world. Tao Lin is the same thing: just another rich, white twat. Yes, he's Asian. But like a lot of Asians in the US, they seem at heart deeply ashamed for not being white and want to desperately be white.

It's really disgusting. All these people whose lives are essentially meaningless and polluting cultural discourse with their vapidity and self-absorption.

I pray for another Vietnam to thin out their numbers.

>>3562869
>I [pray for another Vietnam

That's pretty cfuvking drastic but at this point I can't say I disagree.

Every single thread in /lit/ ends up in Tao Lin.
Go to bed, Tao...

>>3562869
That video link was my post. Jeremy Bailey is a satire of the new media art world. As you're not interested in that, I don't blame you for misunderstanding it.
I think he's relevant mainly because of his approach to performance art extending across his entire image, and the incorporation of social media, though the idea of humor being a constant element is there as well.

>Then again I find myself repelled by artsy people and generally avoid them and their "culture".
Well, I think you're projecting your own preconceptions onto the art world from a distant, misinformed perspective.

Anyways, you seriously misinterpreted Tao Lin as well. If you've no interest in contemporary culture, that's fine, but I don't see where you get off sharing your pop opinions on shit you accidentally got your hands on.
You've no idea what you're talking about, let alone what they are. Which is not something to be proud of, it's in conversation with the past half-century of culture, a direct influence in all aspects of your modern life.

>>3562338
Warhol loved it, not feared it (not that he was right)

A while back I was at the aquarium, and I see all the little kids and their parents with iphones holding them up against the glass to watch the fish. I asked myself, what the fuck happened to using your own eyes and pressing them up against the glass as close as possible to capture this amazing underwater world, at least that's what I did as a kid about 15 fucking years ago.

What the fuck is wrong with experiencing the moment, why does everything have to be captured with a shitty quality recording device, what the fuck is wrong with using your eyes? It took billions of years of evolution to get those fucking eyes, and you want to waste your most memorable experiences by recording them on a shitty phone. You have a brain, it is capable of storing memories, and you are capable of telling stories. Why the fuck go anywhere if you can download a shitty clip of everything?

The Internet is your society. Facebook is your personality. iPhones are your voice and eyes. The Car is your body. So, what the fuck are you?

>>3562190

> So this is what we have became.

Have *become*.

Smart phones are great for literature. So are social networks. Literature isn't going anywhere. Popular fiction is. Literature will continue by any means neccesary; serious people will keep coming along, willing to take the time and pay the attention. And those forms which rely upon vacancy and fantasy and a lack of real imagination or moral seriousness, will lose out. Fine. I have no problem with Twilight fic pornos replacing the entire romantic novel genre. I have no problem with video games replacing the kind of movie that plays out like a video game. Meanwhile, like the Orthodox church in the USSR, literature will survive - and it's far more fun being part of a cultivated minority than a mass readership, take it from me.

>>3562714
>Writes this on the internet, the worst soul sucking contraption known to man
Stop being a faggot

>>3562869
>I pray for another Vietnam to thin out their numbers.
Just a tad mean.

>>3563227

>>3562309
>American baseball culture
>competitive
>2013 Anno Domini
No. Unfortunately, America's pastime is no longer most popular in America, and professional baseball is even less popular than other types. There are no more Mill Leagues, all the household names of baseball's past are dead, and all the modern ones have been stained by their corrupt colleagues. Also, Major League Baseball has fallen to the point where high school games and Minor League games are fun to watch than those five-hour long "baseball" commercials that they charge as much for as an NFL game, but with much less excitement. Baseball is never going to die in America, just as whiskey-drinking will never die in America. They are both part of our history. However, baseball is much less popular today than it was previously.

To the topic at hand, why does it matter if the literature is on paper? For one thing, eBooks save paper, allow for much more time to read our books, and are just generally better for reading. If you still want to have your large, physical library to read at home, that's fine too, but you can't deny the advantages of electronic literature.

>>3563229

It's a (slightly misremembered) Simpsons quote.

>>3562338
Baudrillard chuckled heartily then drank a lot and killed himself

>>3562285

Why do we need there to be lots of thinking people?

I mean, you and I, and whoever else, as thinking people? All we need is enough thinking people to earn a living from. I think we'll always have that.

This feeling of being surrounded by a wall of ever-increasing idiocy is very often experienced by self-educated people who haven't yet arrived at university. Don't worry. There are people to talk to, and plenty of them.

>>3563280
how did you get idiocy out of that
anon lamented the death of imagination

>>3563284

Idiocy = lack of imagination. Anon's worried about this. There isn't becoming less space to think. I'm not calling the anon an idiot.

>>3562269
Pick up a magazine lately?
In magazines such as Harpers, or the Atlantic, there are good stories to be found.

>>3562285
There isn't less space to think. There's less space to be bored, and that's a good thing.

People like you bemoan the world's departure from the old ways, but I doubt you'd be willing to sacrifice your phone to gratify some half-felt nostalgic sentiment.

>>3562308
>read
>audiobooks

I will never do this. Nothing feels dirtier or more repulsive to me than an audiobook.

Every time I listen to one, I get PTSD flashbacks of my entire formal english schooling.

>"Ok class, now we're going to read this passage.

>OUT LOUD"

>>3563435
There was always that guy who read at a glacial pace, wasn't there? And the girl who didn't want to be a part of the reading, so ran through her paragraph; all comprehension was lost. Bloody hell, I don't miss school.

>>3563455
NO.
THERE WAS ALWAYS THE CONSTANT HUM OF PEOPLE READING EIGHT TIMES SLOWER THAN YOU, SUBTLY STEALING THE WORDS YOU WERE TRYING TO READ OUT OF YOUR MIND AND PULLING YOU BACK TIGHTLY WITH THEIR NOOSE OF MEDIOCRITY AROUND YOUR NECK.

>>3562190
Implying I, a comp sci major, don't read half a book a day on my laptop.

>>3562190
'we have became', monsieur, bravo!

the essence of this whole post lies in this single letter a between c nd m. that is what, rather, you have became, monsieur.

>>3563476
>a comp sci major
You should've majored in English Literature. It's about as useful.

>>3563486
double degree with computer&network engineering