/lit/ - Literature

>>3462150
Thread was deleted yesterday.

Go away with your cancer.

sage

>>3462152
How is she carcinogenic? Because she is modern or female? Please try and put your personal issues aside, I want a sensible discussion.

>>3462163
Whats that op? you want a sensible discussion about this terrible author? Well go back in time to the terrible thread yesterday... reminisce about it.. Take the cocks out of your mouth too.

>>3462167
>you want a sensible discussion about this terrible author?
You think she's a terrible author? Great. Good start. Which book did you read and why did you think it was terrible?

>Take the cocks out of your mouth too.
Do I really have to? But they're so delicious.

Is this ironic or viral or what

What the fuck, why is /lit/ being invaded like this, why are you spamming her, why are trying to ruin this board

>but good sir i am simply not i am simply and honestly trying to engage in a perfectly frank and open discussion about the merits of this writer ..... xD

Mod, I beg of thee, you are our only saviour, please return.

>>3462178
Neither. I saw the thread yesterday and decided to download her book. I just wanted a sensible discussion about her without all the trolling misogynist shitposting. She seems to hold a lot of influence in the under 25's outlook, and is probably the most relevant author in our age group.

She is a very talented author, has a deliciously aggressive style, but seems to be holding herself back with her militant feminism. I decided to read her book which focuses on politics and economics more than feminism, and actually wanted to discuss her.

>>3462183
Mod is dead, remember?

Ergo, Moot is dead, and Sir Jimmy Rustles, the holy ghost, is the only possible vanquisher of this shitpost bonanza

>a deliciously aggressive style

a think it's whiny and self-pitying

she's rather attractive for a feminist

>>3462150
>Obviously she is the voice of our generation
i thought it was kanye west...

>>3462189
No, you do not. Stop advertising on this board. We're sick of these threads.

>>3462207
>>a deliciously aggressive style
>a think it's whiny and self-pitying

I didn't specifically mean the content. I meant the way she attacks issues is aggressive.

>>3462214
>>>/q/421735

I wonder about the psychology of a person from a wealthy background defecting and siding with abused and downtrodden classes.

>I've just about got to the age when some of my friends are planning to tie the most expensive of knots for reasons that have nothing to do with immigration, and while the queer radical socialist feminist in me is always primed with a lecture about the history of marriage as a ritual to secure property rights, protect the bloodlines of the wealthy and institutionalise the domestic slavery of women, somehow my sentimental side always lets me down.

>somehow my sentimental side always lets me down.

>>3462214
>>3462214
Oh, grow up. Nobody is 'advertising'. Why do you struggle to comprehend the fact that some people like modern authors? If you don't like an author just filter their name instead of shitposting. I have multiple things –Atheism, Nietzsche, Sunhawk..., – filtered and it makes browsing /lit/ so much better.

>>3462150
Where did you download it from? I couldn't find it.

>>3462225

>>3462224
>I wonder about the psychology of a person from a wealthy background defecting and siding with abused and downtrodden classes.
I guess people feel betrayed by the system, or have been exposed to particular horrors of that system.

>>3462236

Wasn't Karl Marx Jewish though? I think it's a lot easier for Jews to do this kind of thing because their Jewish identity alienates them from the higher culture of the country they're living in.

>>3462231
I do like Nietzsche. I just hate the daily teen-existentialism posts that plague Nietzsche threads. Middle-class white kids, bored buy opulent consumerism and social media, who cry about the lack of meaning in their lives and foolishly delude themselves into thinking Uncle Neetshee will kiss everything better.

>>3462150
>Obviously she is the voice of our generation
Kill yourself.

She's a mentally deranged whore with daddy issues.

>>3462189
Fuck off.

Under 25's are too young and stupid to have an "outlook."

>>3462224
Pure slave morality, friend.

>>3462256
20 yrs old and I agree. Wasn't it Aristotle that said youths such be barred from politics because they'd become too personally involved and be unable to see the bigger picture?

>>3462236
Yes, it's so terrible being born with a silver spoon in your mouth, being educated at expensive schools and wanting for nothing.

>>3462260
I think it was also plato that said philosophy shouldn't even be studied til after one turns 25

>>3462267
I haven't really studied it at all.

>>3462241
>Jewish identity alienates them from the higher culture of the country they're living in

When the communist Manifesto was published, the Rothschild dynasty was at the very top of the aristocratic food chain, and held sway over the British monarchy. The European Jews of the 1800's, outside of Russia, had a hated aimed at them, and converting Jews to Christianity was a popular past time, but they weren't quite as hated as they became in the 1900's.

>>3462274
>hated
*Hatred.

>>3462267
>plato
laughinggentlemen.microfiche

>>3462241

Marx was informed by his German identity probably moreso than his Jewish heritage so I don't think your analysis holds any water. I would also go as far as to say that jewishness and political ideology are completely independent of each other.

>>3462274
As nietzsche said, it's all rooted in resentment.

>>3462276
>is under 25

>>3462279
JIDF detected.

It's all related. Just like Freud's psycho-analysis is rooted in jewish neurosis and his own jewish upbringing, his attitudes towards his mother and father.

This isn't even viral marketing. /pol/ has been invading /lit/ for the better part of a week now and this is just a continuation of it.

Please fuck off already.

>>3462302
>Just like Freud's psycho-analysis is rooted in jewish neurosis and his own jewish upbringing, his attitudes towards his mother and father.

How, Mr Pol/, was Freud's three step model of consciousness in any way related to being Jewish? His observations of childhood imprinting, hereditary survival instincts, social condition, and maternal influence had nothing to do with being Jewish. But of course, if you know better, then please enlighten me. I'd also be interested in hearing your tinfoil theories on how Jung, the protestant raised colleague of Freud, also reached very similar conclusions about consciousness.

>>3462276
Drop the trip, faggot. Unless of course you want to be ridiculed and run off of /lit/ like the rest of the cancerous tripfags.

>>3462302

How is Freud's psychoanalysis rooted in is jewishness? Lacan's psychoanalytical method is closely related to Freud's.. is his rooted in jewishness too, despite Lacan not being jewish? How do you explain this?

Also Mod, if you are out there. Please do something about this.

>>3462339
>Please do something about this.
Do something about what? Censor an author because you don't like them, or are to lazy to filter or ignore them?

>>3462313
His Jewish mother's overbearingness made him neurotic and invent a whole psychology out of it. Also he wanted to fuck his mother.

>>3462339
Lacan's is rooted in his faggotness.

>>3462349

About the invasion of retarded racist trolls that have sprang out of nowhere to take over this board. There was actually a thread about Lacan from a graduate on here the other week, explaining and clarifying parts of his method, quoting his seminars. Contrast this with "herp Freud only thunked what he did cuz he a kike". Why wouldn't I want something to be done about it?

>>3462150
Actually we don't care about her..
She is irrelevant. And no matter how much you try make us hate love her we simply won't care..

>>3462357
>His Jewish mother's overbearingness made him neurotic and invent a whole psychology out of it.
I'm afraid you will need to elaborate further here. It seems you have shattered your previous argument, and said it was his mothers actions, nothing directly to do with religion.

>Also he wanted to fuck his mother.
That was the most articulate analysis of' The Oedipus complex' I have ever read.

>>3462370
The mod deleted the other Laurie Penny thread, and I assume this one will eventually get deleted.

Don't worry, these clowns will get bored by the end of the week and will disappear back into their echo chamber of idiocy.

>>3462374
>She is irrelevant.
Do you mean culturally? If so you are mistaken. She has a huge fanbase, with hundreds of thousands of people reading her books and articles.

If you mean the points she makes. Again, you are wrong. She writes about current social and economic issues. Protests, laws, ethical issues, civil rights, abortion, police brutality. She is one of the most prominent youths actively lashing out at a system that she feels needs changing. Just take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4szyNIrTc#t=02m54s

If you mean irrelevant to you personally, then yes, you're right.

>>3462399
You are literally one guy, aren't you? Your writing style and defense gives it away. Go somewhere else and discuss her where people actually give a shit. No she is totally irrelevant. No one gives a fuck.

>>3462379
Jewish mother, lrn 2 comphrension

Nice butthurt btw

No, /lit/ has a hate/hate relationship with her and there are far better places to discuss her on the internet.

>>3462370
This board has always been frequented by racists and browsers of /pol/

>>3462406
funny how I haven't ever seen her mentioned before this week. We don't have a hate/love relationship with her because we don't fucking care about her. Now go back to pol.

>>3462370
there were always racists on 4chan. the people who whine about it constantly are what's new.

>>3462370
>>3462370
>Contrast this with "herp Freud only thunked what he did cuz he a kike". Why wouldn't I want something to be done about it?
This is a fallacious argument. You seem to be insinuating that I, a long time contributor to this board and OP of this thread, have anything to do with the moron saying 'Freud only thunked what he did cuz he a kike'. I too, am annoyed at the invasion from other boards. Which is why I am disappointed at the shitposting ITT by you and others, who refuse to discuss the merits of a brilliant young author.

>>3462401
>You are literally one guy, aren't you?
Yes, you dumb fuck. Look at my OP post. I am one guy who downloaded the book and came to a literature board looking for a discussion. Your insistence that this thread is a 'raid' is just stupid. Also, I can also spot the majority of your shitposts too.

i like it wen david starkey whoops dat ass

You can tell this is a troll thread because it started with a ridiculous sweeping statement
>Obviously she is the voice of our generation

>>3462150
>Okay /lit/, I know you have a love/hate relationship with Laurie Penny
It's not even been a week yet, you can't categorise a relationship this early on.

>>3462419
Your writing sucks donkydick. Back to pol you fucking tard.

>>3462424
And as we all know, that accolade belongs to Tao Lin. There is nothing more relevant to today than his meta-ironic-hamster-narratives.

>>3462419

I'm not insinuating that, *lights up a cigarette*, maybe in another world, this thread could've gone better. could've... not happened the way it did *exhales* I would've just hidden it and moved on.. but as it stands, I used your thread to let out some anger at the invasion. I'm sorry it had to be that way, OP.

Maybe I'll buy you a drink sometime, kiddo. Put this all behind us.

>>3462176
>Which book
She's primarily a journo. Most of the current New Statesman journos aren't that great. Many of the former too. C'est la vie.

I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the Tao Lin threads.

>>3462444
>I miss the Tao Lin threads.
You're gonna regret saying that then when Taipei gets released and the entire board turns into one giant 3-month Tao Lin thread.

>>3462444
Have you caved in and ordered Shoplifting yet? I can distinctly remember thinking "this is the dumbest crap ever" when excerpts were first posted here, and then one day, hearing him say "the next night we ate whale", everything changed. I had become a Tao Lin fan.

>>3462435
>She's primarily a journo. Most of the current New Statesman journos aren't that great.

She writes for the Guardian, the Independent, Vice and a few others. With the guardian, I think she's been heavily influenced by Charlie Brooker. I don't know if you're a fan of his, but he has the same cynical narrative style.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentiree/2006/sep/22/arts.visualarts

>>3462453
>the next night we ate whale
Tao stole that repeating the last line over and over gimmick from from Woody Allen.

>>3462460
I wouldn't compare her to Charlie Brooker atm. Vast differences in quality. Then again, the first thing I read from Brooker were his "TV go home" bits, and those were written when he was older than she is now.

>>3462467
The idea was taken from a blogger in fact.

>>3462460
>Vice
Easily the worst publication on the internet. It's fitting she works for them (Tao Lin did as well - also fitting).

Listen, cynicism achieves absolutely nothing. An individual much smarter than Penny could ever dream of being once said that the cynic knows the price of everything but not the value. This couldn't be a more fitting description for Penny. She doesn't have any real idea of what the actual value of what she thinks she's fighting for is. She's a 26 year upper-middle class white girl born into privilege. She was born in London and grew up in Brighton for God's sake. What sort of real or accurate lens on the world could she truly have? What does she know about living under absolutely penurious circumstances where the only thing you learn to value is your next meal, instead of valuing things like hair dye or e-ciggarettes or Game of Thrones or whatever other cultural horseshit she's blathering about today? What does she know about real female oppression, the kind that manifests itself in the form of girls' schools in Pakistan getting massacred by Islamists? We're talking 6 year old girls getting beheaded. We're talking about the same culture Penny defends. What does she know about any of this?

I don't know any good writer in history that loved hanging around with mobs.

>love/hate
>love

What?

>>3462522

>>3462460

Except Charlie Brooker is thoughtful, considered, intelligent and worth paying attention to.

>>3462419
>who refuse to discuss the merits of a brilliant young author.

lel, fuck off retard. Your judgment that she is brilliant is entirely your own opinion, that no one else here shares.

>>3462522
She can know its horror because it's outside of her own experience. Some people are cowed, they acquiesce to these things, until a voice which understands its abhorrent nature, precisely because the voice's owner is not acclimated to it, convinces them that it is as repugnant as it feels. This isn't always the case of course, but my point is that what you're talking about isn't always the case either. You're coming from a very cynical perspective yourself, and you've sized up her cost and discarded what value she might have. According to you, she achieves nothing, and you've certainly achieved nothing by tearing what possibilities she might have down with your cynical disdain.
Vollmann's of the same stock, different generation, and look at what he does to compassionately and gracefully depict humanity in many types.
Sure, middle-class melancholy is getting pretty damn old, but it's part of the American literary tradition, and it has its niche. "There's nothing left to explore here! It's so done!" is the tired cry of a tired imagination. It's entirely possible that by learning the misery even during the best of things, we can also investigate suffering during the worst, and happiness during the worst being explanatory about happiness during the best.

What does she have to offer aside from uninteresting rehashings of feminism and leftism?

Sincere question.

>>3462522
>Listen, cynicism achieves absolutely nothing.
She doesn't actively engage in cynicism. She has cynical slant in her writing, partially modelled on HST's political commentary. She's critical of certain ideologies and cultural issues, but often says things like "I'm a desperate optimist, because people are, when you get down to it, amazing." Being cynical towards something negative is often more effective than ignoring it to focus of the positives of the contrary stance.

>She's a 26 year upper-middle class white girl born into privilege. She was born in London and grew up in Brighton for God's sake.
As am I. Born in London and raised in Brighton that is. Though I'm also an 18 year old upper-middle class white male born into privilege.

>What sort of real or accurate lens on the world could she truly have?
Are you saying that someone born in London and raised in Brighton, or someone with wealthy parents are barred from obtaining any knowledge of the world; of studying history, economics and politics; or visiting, as Penny does, multiple regions of the world where human rights violations and mass demonstrations are taking place?

Look, I'm sure you are a 50year old war veteran that travels the world, constructing orphanages in third world countries, single handedly fighting oppressive regimes, but the notion that parental wealth or geographic location automatically disables people from obtaining a world perspective is fictitious.

>>3462522
>We're talking 6 year old girls getting beheaded
hur hur hur

>>3462591
>Though I'm also an 18 year old upper-middle class white male born into privilege.

Stopped reading there.

>>3462591
>Though I'm also an 18 year old upper-middle class white male born into privilege.
All the qualification one needs to feel they can talk on anything, to be young, rich, and dim.

>>3462594
It's a better magic trick than pulling a coin from their ear, that's for sure.

>>3462453

OK, this has become a full rage-you-lose thread.

>>3462590
Take a look at the clip there (>>3462399) She writes a lot about issues like that, about Libya, Greece, Cairo, Wall street. She dives straight into protests and riots to report on them. It's not just leftist feminism, though even her feminist articles can be fairly grounded. She just flew to Ireland, where abortion is illegal, to get involved in the protests there; fighting, obviously, on the 'pro-choice' side.

>>3462595
>>3462596
I only included that to see if it would discredit my opinion.

>>3462603
>OMG JOKE POEMS THAT'S SO PLEB TO LIKE THOSE
Read more, fuckwit.

>>3462591
>18 year old upper-middle class white male born into privilege

It shouldn't matter that this is what you are, but it does. Now I see why Penny is at your level. I don't have a problem with you reading her but there are infinitely better people out there debating history, economics and politics. Penny is like, and it physically pains me to say this, entry level.

>>3462608
>I only included that to see if it would discredit my opinion.

>>3462612
>If I post reaction images it's just like I have an argument!

>>3462610
So it's worthless to find young contemporary authors and see how they develop over time?

>>3462619
yes

>>3462609

Just curious, what is your age? Late teens/early twenties? I'm starting to think Tao Lin's fanbase in generally in this area. I'm 19 myself.

>>3462610
As far as I can find, there is nobody else out there young enough to be relatable to, and willing to jump right into the heart of these things to report about them.

> "I'm a desperate optimist, because people are, when you get down to it, amazing."
>I'm a desperate optimist

She's a desperate a lot of things. My impressions of her are as of a young person that desperately wants to believe that she has a grasp on things.
People are not amazing when you get down to it. When you get down to it people are varied, but a young girl who's surrounded by wealth and educated, interesting people with a desperate desire to believe something might come to that false conclusion, that people are amazing. The problem is that she claims to represent the less-fortunate, and the less-fortunate are not amazing people at all - they are egotistical, loutish, impolite and generally unpleasant, and as someone who's met my fair share of less-fortunate people, and can say that I would have very much liked to have been surrounded by wealth and culture from birth, and think its absolutely disgraceful how she shows no gratitude towards the culture of the rich which she has benefitted from, and chooses instead to rebel against her upbringing like a stubborn child. As a person who has met my fair share of less-fortunate people, I can tell you these people would disregard this woman out-of-hand as a stuck-up lesbian bitch, but she would speak on behalf of these people as though they had elected her.

>>3462610
>Penny is like, and it physically pains me to say this, entry level.
No, if she's entry level you get people taking away a very narrow view of debate on history, economics, politics, culture etc. I'd describe her as more of a novelty I guess. She's not the worst journalist (you'd have to sink pretty low to be as bad as Piers Morgan for example), she's just young and wet behind the ears, and as a result her writing style is still developing. Readable but nothing to write home about.

>>3462619

Did anything in my post even slightly allude to how you interpreted it? All I'm saying is you can read her if you want, but please be aware that she is completely terrible and if you are looking to her to tell you what to think, then you are in grave circumstances.

>>3462615
>he thinks there's an argument going on
Cute.

>>3462150
>amazing social commentary

>Laurie Penny (born 28 September 1986) is a British columnist, blogger and author who writes for the New Statesman. She writes from a feminist and left wing perspective.
>feminist
>left wing
>amazing social commentary

>>3462623
I'm 29, and not really a fan of Tao Lin to be honest. I don't think he's bad, but his style is purposefully irritating and he does a great job at that, but I don't want to be irritated so I can laugh at my irritation.
And punchline poems go back a long, long time, I know when I and another anon mentioned Catullus 16 it circulated for quite a bit just like Joyce's unintentionally(?) hilarious love letters.

>>3462640
yes, exactly

Laurie Pennyfags, this is a real leftist journalist. Read him instead.

>>3462640
>>feminist
>>left wing
>>amazing social commentary
Yeah, she's never going to be picked up by quality like the Mail with ideologies like that.

>>3462626

Hello.

>>3462629
I also dislike how she speaks of "our generation", as though I, being part of "our generation", want to be represented as a whining kid who can't get it easy enough.

It's pretentious when a person from a rich background wants to tell others how hard it is to be poor and miserable. What, can't the poor and miserable speak for themselves? What a low opinion you must really have of them.

>>3462629
>and think its absolutely disgraceful how she shows no gratitude towards the culture of the rich which she has benefitted from

Jesus Christ. Culture of the rich? You do realise the catastrophic global impact western consumerism is having on the world, right? The three tier production line that keeps the majority of the world poor, and a sixth starving? "Embrace the rich because her parents had money." Absolutely disgusting.

>>3462656
Owen Jones is really amazing, especially for his age.

>>3462657
>What, can't the poor and miserable speak for themselves?
That you think all or most or even a significant amount can shows how little you know about poverty.

>>3462657
>It's pretentious when a person from a rich background wants to tell others....

It's pretentious when someone will use parental wealth to disregard someone opinion, as if the 'authentic' voice from the poor is the only one capable of reporting.

>>3462641
>Joyce's unintentionally(?) hilarious love letters
Joyce and Nora were very sexually adventurous, but had to spend very long stretches apart when Joyce was travelling for work. The letters were just a way to keep some semblance of sexual intimacy going when they couldn't be with each other. Really sweet, really beautiful.

>>3462659
> You do realise the catastrophic global impact western consumerism is having on the world, right?

Exactly. What's the point of all this catastrophe if the rich - the people who are supposed to benefit from it - are reduced to whining and feeling sorry? If even the people at the top of our society don't have confidence in themselves then what are we further down supposed to think? It's hardly reassuring.

>That you think all or most or even a significant amount can shows how little you know about poverty.

Oh, I know. That still doesn't mean that there should be someone speaking for them.
To be honest I don't have that much sympathy for the oppressed.

>>3462661
Watch out, he went to Oxford too. The wealth privilege checkers in this threat will start attacking him.

>>3462676
>as if the 'authentic' voice from the poor
Check your privilege, masser.

>>3462656

really is impressive for a 12 year old boy

>>3462657

please read up a bit about power and discourse before you make yourself look really dumb again, thanks

>>3462679
So... essentially... the rich need to be happy with their lot so the poor and oppressed can feel like the global system that oppresses them and holds them in poverty has some use for someone and is therefore valid and justified?

>>3462689
Also read about privilege and the patriarchy, that's real important too.

>>3462690
Well that is precisely what Nietzsche thought.

>>3462682
>Watch out, he went to Oxford too.
The issue is that she comes from a very wealthy family and went to private school, not simply that she is Oxon. Jones on the other hand is not from so nearly a privileged background. In fact, issue is too strong a word, the problem with "I'm 18, male and rich, don't try to oppress me" is that it smacks of stupidity and entitlement.

>>3462693

this, but unironically

>>3462679
>Oh, I know... I don't have much sympathy for the oppressed
Then why engage in the subject at all? Count your lucky stars and move on.

>>3462679
You're not a drone living in a hive. It is not necessary to give a damn about what the rich think.

>>3462697
No it isn't. Antithesis in fact.

>>3462679

>top of society don't have confidence

Indeed, which is why one of the many crises we are living through is that the rulers are looking more and more like they are unfit to rule.

>>3462682

>brings up ad hominem on behalf of other people

We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

>>3462697
Nietzsche admired Jesus. The issue Nietzsche had with the poor is that they had no firm believe, no morality of their own that they stood by, unlike Jesus.

>>3462697
Nietzsche was a philosopher, not a deity, just bringing up his name doesn't make people bow out of the discussion.
It's a ridiculous way of looking at human life and the scope of both ambition and resentment to expect this or think it makes sense.

>>3462698
>unironically

>>3462706
It is possible to be both confident, and incompetent and ignorant.

>>3462697
Lel, as if Nietzsche discriminated between great and lowly persons by wealth. He despised the last mannish contentedness of most of the rich as much as most of the poor. Nietzsche's philosophy concerns a spiritual aristocracy, not one of gold.

>>3462696
Owen Jones' parents were an LEA officer and university lecturer. Laurie Penny's parents were solicitors. It's not like she was surfing the crest of aristocratic decadence, while he wallowed in abject poverty. She refused money from her parents when she was old enough to leave home, and joined a burlesque troupe to support herself. She now lives on any money she can make by selling articles and books. The both ended up in Oxford with left-leaning views.

>>3462690
Here's a fable of Aesop's I like:

>THE BEASTS of the field and forest had a Lion as their king. He was neither wrathful, cruel, nor tyrannical, but just and gentle as a king could be. During his reign he made a royal proclamation for a general assembly of all the birds and beasts, and drew up conditions for a universal league, in which the Wolf and the Lamb, the Panther and the Kid, the Tiger and the Stag, the Dog and the Hare, should live together in perfect peace and amity. The Hare said, “Oh, how I have longed to see this day, in which the weak shall take their place with impunity by the side of the strong.” And after the Hare said this, he ran for his life.

>>3462709
>Nietzsche admired Jesus.

He also hated the dumb mentality that the poor and weak endorsed because of Christianity. Nietzsches Ubermensch was almost the same as Rands man of reason. He hated the poor, the weak and the religious.

>>3462705
>>3462709
>>3462719
Corruption—as the indication that anarchy threatens to break out among the instincts, and that the foundation of the emotions, called "life," is convulsed—is something radically different according to the organization in which it manifests itself. When, for instance, an aristocracy like that of France at the beginning of the Revolution, flung away its privileges with sublime disgust and sacrificed itself to an excess of its moral sentiments, it was corruption:—it was really only the closing act of the corruption which had existed for centuries, by virtue of which that aristocracy had abdicated step by step its lordly prerogatives and lowered itself to a FUNCTION of royalty (in the end even to its decoration and parade-dress). The essential thing, however, in a good and healthy aristocracy is that it should not regard itself as a function either of the kingship or the commonwealth, but as the SIGNIFICANCE and highest justification thereof—that it should therefore accept with a good conscience the sacrifice of a legion of individuals, who, FOR ITS SAKE, must be suppressed and reduced to imperfect men, to slaves and instruments. Its fundamental belief must be precisely that society is NOT allowed to exist for its own sake, but only as a foundation and scaffolding, by means of which a select class of beings may be able to elevate themselves to their higher duties, and in general to a higher EXISTENCE: like those sun-seeking climbing plants in Java—they are called Sipo Matador,—which encircle an oak so long and so often with their arms, until at last, high above it, but supported by it, they can unfold their tops in the open light, and exhibit their happiness.

>>3462724
>and joined a burlesque troupe to support herself
You might want to check your facts there.

And again, the issue is not Laurie Penny, it's the poster's attitude above who claims to be like her in everything but sex and age, and there's in fact no mention of Oxford either.

>>3462734
>He hated the poor, the weak and the religious.
Nietzsche was poor, weak and spiritual. His father was poor and religious, as was his mother, and he adored both of them. Not his sister though, and she'd probably have described herself as rich, strong and purely rational.

>>3462734
Not Christianity. Nietzsche said, "There has only ever been one Christian, and he died on the cross". The thing about "Christians", is that they act very unlike Christ.

>>3462737
Again, it's ridiculous to think this is viable. It's like beating a dog every day, feeling indignant that it doesn't let you pet it and shocked when it bites you.

>>3462762
I don't think Nietzsche is saying that the poor would cease to resent the rich, it's more that this way of life would give the rich the greatest amount of confidence in themselves to allow them to rule successfully and for a long time.

>>3462737
Well, I'm sorry, but I'm too much of an egoist to be reduced to such boot licking.

>>3462770
Well then you have two options, become one of those that are in power or replace those in power with your own institution.
It's either that or oppression.

>>3462770
Go to bed, Stirner.

>>3462737
Isn't there a chapter in Zarathustra where a guy follows him around and quotes him and Zarathustra calls him a stupid monkey?

>>3462769
You've misunderstood his point on morality in the pejorative sense. The only people who (can) increase in human excellence are those who are downtrodden, not those who are pampered. You're wanking over the idea of a last man there.

>>3462783
Yep. I'm behaving exactly like him. To be fair, I regret bringing up Nietzsche, I only wanted to use him to say that the point I was trying to make wasn't as farfetched as it sounded.

>>3462793
>I only wanted to use him to say that the point I was trying to make wasn't as farfetched as it sounded.

What? That someone born with wealth is incapable of empathizing with the poor?

>>3462737
>The essential thing, however, in a good and healthy aristocracy is that it should not regard itself as a function either of the kingship or the commonwealth, but as the SIGNIFICANCE and highest justification thereof—that it should therefore accept with a good conscience the sacrifice of a legion of individuals, who, FOR ITS SAKE, must be suppressed and reduced to imperfect men, to slaves and instruments. Its fundamental belief must be precisely that society is NOT allowed to exist for its own sake, but only as a foundation and scaffolding, by means of which a select class of beings may be able to elevate themselves to their higher duties, and in general to a higher EXISTENCE: like those sun-seeking climbing plants in Java—they are called Sipo Matador,—which encircle an oak so long and so often with their arms, until at last, high above it, but supported by it, they can unfold their tops in the open light, and exhibit their happiness.
I couldn't have expressed it better how it feels like to be an intelligent young man on the dole.

So I started reading meat market female flesh under capitalism because of all these threads, I wanted to have some idea of what they were about. And that's all I could find for free in less than five minutes. I'm about ten pages in, and I want to believe this is a very subtle joke. Like she is so over the top that I almost can't believe it's not a secret parody of itself.

>>3462797
No, this:

>So... essentially... the rich need to be happy with their lot so the poor and oppressed can feel like the global system that oppresses them and holds them in poverty has some use for someone and is therefore valid and justified?

You see, "Long Live the King" might give a peasant comfort (that he is in the service of greatness), but "Rich people are dick heads that only think about themselves" gives comfort to nobody.

It leaves the people at the bottom thinking, "so why are THEY in charge, they're no better than I am, THEY'RE JUST RICH; what's the point of a society with THESE PEOPLE on top?" Whereas the peasant knows that the King is his better and deserves to be where he is.

>>3462778
Stirner had precisely that aristocratic mindstate.

>>3462818
>You see, "Long Live the King" might give a peasant comfort (that he is in the service of greatness), but "Rich people are dick heads that only think about themselves" gives comfort to nobody.
And so we see an example of being life denying and sacrificing vitality for comfort, and its opposite.

>>3462818

this would be why Nietzsche refers to aristocrats and not rich people

>>3462813
I haven't read it, but I'd like to point out that being polemic on purpose to stop people from being all "lol I agree" and doing nothing is a pretty common thing.

As for "identifying yourself with the downtrodden and abused" when you were born wealthy, isn't that, to a degree, a sign of empathy?

>>3462813
Can you post a link?

As far as I know, it was her English dissertation that she revised and had published.

>>3462150
>a love/hate relationship
>same guy that posts LP stuff over and over
lol

>>3462847
http://www.freefilehosting.net/lauepennymeatmarketfemalefleshundercitalism2011

>>3462845
It's not really polemics, it's how purple her prose gets. I think the bit about babies being born with playboy bunnies tattooed on their eyes actually made my jaw drop in disbelief. As for the empathy thing, it comes off as very contrived when a girl who looks like that complains on the first page about not being thin enough, young enough, or white enough for society's standards.

>>3462818

are you honestly arguing for a strict social hierarchy in society to provide order and harmony and whatever else

i thought this sort of thinking had been done away with in the 17th century

>>3462862
>i thought this sort of thinking had been done away with in the 17th century
If you read the section he's quoted above from BGE, you'll also find he's profoundly misunderstood what he's reading.

>>3462855
>the bit about babies being born with playboy bunnies tattooed on their eyes actually made my jaw drop in disbelief

"The sexual bodies of women are out of control. Look around: teenagers who should be drinking lashings of ginger beer and going on picnics are wearing thongs and listening to Lily Allen. Children delinquently rummage in each other’s pornographic pencil cases. Even babies are now born with the Playboy Bunny image tattooed onto their eyeballs. Their fault, the little tarts, for daring to look at the future."

No wonder she's in journalism. She's obviously honed her sensationalism skills.

>>3462871

well the quote is obviously showing that sort of though to be stupid, but then this poster seems to be all for it

>>3462855
>>3462882
Are you kidding? It's very accurate. Playboy merchandise is everywhere, and for a society that has a social stigma about pornography, it's a socially acceptable glamorization of the taboo. I'm not anti-porn, I don't even like Laurie Penny, but I can see where she is coming from with that.

>>3462797
Yes, poor people don't go on world wide tours to demonstrate world hunger and the right to show their breasts. They work hard and get an education because they don't want to relive poverty again. Either that or they become criminals, drug addicts, teen mothers or alcoholics.

The people that cunt proclaim to speak for are other slightly less rich kids who's biggest problems are what kind of macbook they should get.

again?

you wanna discuss this again?
It's like the seventh time this week. What the fuck 's wrong with you.

>and is probably the most relevant author in our age group.


oh for the love of god

>>3462926
Apparently society is well and truly fucked, Anon, and our valiant saviour comes in the form of an obnoxious British girl with bright raid hair.

>>3462936
>bright raid hair.
red

>>3462818
>"Long Live the King" might give a peasant comfort (that he is in the service of greatness), but "Rich people are dick heads that only think about themselves" gives comfort to nobody.

David Starkey detected:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XulhKT5-M

>>3462189
>without trolling misogynist shitposting
I like her too, OP, but this ship has long since sailed. There is no possibility of that happening on /lit/ until it forgets about her.

Oddly, I can deal with these Penny threads a lot better then the Bukowski threads.

>>3463047
I think it's been a whole day without one now. And yeah, Id much rather have her face thrust into my field of vision, than be forced to stare at that disfigured warthog.

>>3462957
>Based Starkey

Oh god, if he were to grace this board with his presence...

>>3462647
Chris Hedges is a slimy dumbfuck who's grows affronted at the slightest idea of any kind of violence or harshness. He's predicated his entire career for ten years on being the high priest of high-minded, squeamish, ineffectual middleclass, middlebrow liberalism. He is not a leftist in any meaningful sense and nothing he's written is of any substantial value.

TL;DR no.

>>3463047
>then

if only we were being trolled

>>3463059
I liked his book though.

This is Laurie Penny's entire knowledge of Marxism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoeMhnHUg

I love it when champagne socialists try to act like their thoughts matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojA6E3fJw&list=LLHb_3F3VcrcNYXMFy96Eg

>>3463063
I'll just post some Bukowski pictures than.

Is it odd I find her writings to be almost unreadable, but i enjoy hearing her speak? And I'd dare say I disagree with 99.9% of her beliefs.

notice how all of the New Left is basically Gramscian.
There's no real Marxists left anywhere. It's all Gramsci. Even the far right misunderstands Marxism, venting against what is essentially Gramscian thought.

>>3463088
>There's no real Marxists left anywhere

>>3463088

To us right wing knuckledraggers, it all sounds the same. All left-wing thought mischaracterizes capitalism, confusing it with corporatism. Ironically, corporatism has more to do with socialism than anything on the right.

>>3463088
Marxism died with critically theory.

>>3463100
*critical

>>3463100

Dialectical Materialism will never die.

>>3463094
>>3463102

It's amazing that Marxists sometimes look almost human in certain shades of light.

>>3463055
I really can't stand either of them. Shrill, whiny leftist or pompous, bloviating creator of pleb histories?

Christ, look at her frothing through this speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzX1pv1Ds#t=01m44s