/lit/ - Literature

>There is no denying that buying nice clothes equals happiness

Yes there is.

You sound like a jerk.

>I save up money so I could purchase nice cars. Nice clothes. Jewelry, gadgetry, etc. I want these things. I want to look successful and I want to look self-sufficient.

I pity you if these things are that important for you.

buddha had no regrets about aging because he lived it up till 29, smoking the finest hindu kush and eating dat ass in his palace all day long.

if he was born into the lifestyle he chose to live after age 29 he'd take the opposite route and try to acquire the good things of life.
he was a pussy running away from responsibility, he enjoyed all the fruits of the ruling class but ducked out when he was getting old enough to actually do some ruling
let me fuck hot indian chicks for 30 years and i'll eliminate my consciousness with a shotgun to the face after i finish lel
jesus suffered and died for his beliefs, mohammed risked his life fighting for his beliefs...buddha sat around under some trees in a tropical paradise lecturing everyone to stop enjoying life. dude sounds like more of a nag than a spiritual leader if you ask me.
at least christianity has respect for the poor, meanwhile buddhism is just like "fuck they deserve to be poor they were probably bad in a past life or something, besides being poor isn't so bad as long as you stop wanting shit" lol sounds like some republican shit you'd hear at a tea party rally

tl;dr buddha was a rich cunt who got everything he wanted

you're either a joke or a troll

>>3404932
Nice clothes was used as a general term for materiel possessions.

>>3404934
>You sound like a jerk.

No, I sound like the majority of the Western world.

>I pity you if these things are that important for you.

You say that as if I'm obsessed with them. I'm not, but I generally want to treat myself with a nice jacket or a watch every now and again. And just the other day I realized it does bring me happiness. Not life-changing happiness, but a general uplifting feeling.

>There is no denying that buying nice clothes equals happiness.

For you, maybe.

>guys plz validate my happiness tell me im right fuck am i living wrong help

Each to their own, OP, stop being so insecure

ITT:

Wannabe teenager monks who read too many books and think they don't need anything in their lives. Besides their books, the internet and their computer, of course.

Fucking pathetic. I cant wait for all of you to grow up and realize you too will want to dress nice and drive expensive cars. It's inevitable. And it's extremely childish to assume you'll live your entire life with your parents and your books.

>>3404948
>that insecurity

>>3404944
I'm not seeking validation, merely discussion.

>>3404952
Don't think you know what insecurity means, faggot.

>>3404955
Please don't start crying

>>3404956
>still thinks passive aggression works in 2013

>>3404927
Because happiness is ultimately meaningless. Haven't you ever felt that slight sense of emptiness that accompanies happiness?

>>3404961
Are you a nihilist?

>>3404953
OK, you're superficial. We got it.

OK, you don't want us to enjoy life differently than you. We got it.

It seems like you want us to change our worldviews according to yours, so you don't feel alone in your mindset. Like you said, most people (mediocrity) are the same.

You're free. Good luck yo.

>>3404964
>seems you want to change our worldviews

Says the guy that does nothing but subtly insult me. I've never pushed my worldviews unto others, yet look at all these defensive replies I got. Whining as if I just kicked their lifestyle in the groin.

I just dont understand the point of rejecting happiness that stems from material. How is it 'superficial'?

>>3404936
>let me fuck hot indian chicks for 30 years and i'll eliminate my consciousness with a shotgun to the face after i finish lel

Wouldn't we all?

yet another troglodyte's self-reflection and lamentation about his unfiltered, chock-full teenage angst of his wretched existence in plato's cave.

>>3404965
>I've never pushed my worldviews unto others
You just implied we're childish in the OP.

>>3404970
Not really. You deliberately look for in-between-the-lines type of insults thrown at you because you're at a disagreement with me. Your mind automatically seeks to confront the presented statement instead of considering it.

>>3404968

>>3404963
No I'm a muslim.

>>3404980
>Not really.

>How can adults subscribe to the concepts of Buddhism?
> I've been highly interested in Buddhistic schools of thought in my early teenage years,
>Fucking pathetic. I cant wait for all of you to grow up and realize you too will want to dress nice and drive expensive cars.

>>3404961
If life is not about happiness that what is it about?

Please don't say "its about nothing".

>>3404985
>>How can adults subscribe to the concepts of Buddhism?

That was a genuine question.

>> I've been highly interested in Buddhistic schools of thought in my early teenage years,

That was a genuine statement.

>>Fucking pathetic. I cant wait for all of you to grow up and realize you too will want to dress nice and drive expensive cars.

You do realize that is not me, correct?

i reckon i reject most material wealth so far in life

all i spend my money on is alcohol and trips overseas to fuck bitches from all over the world

OP what do you want from me?

>>3404986
It's not about nothing, but it is about no thing.

Except the Dalai Lama does not in any way reject material wealth. He rejects superficial luxuries, but he is guaranteed to get the best health care money can offer, has power, influence, various places of residence, influential friends, travels the world, has access to all books and sources of knowledge he might need and a lot of foolish followers.

If that isn't material wealthy I don't know what is. He's in no way different in his hypocrisy than the Pope.

And please realize that most wealthy individuals aren't superficial idiots who like to flaunt their richness either. They too value the real wealth over the petty superficial consumerism needs of the common folk. Those who spend extravagantly are but a tiny minority.

>>3404996
The dalai lama is a western puppet, funded and used by the west to annoy china. I can only look on in amazement at the stupidity of westerners, who take every inane comment from him as something profound, when all it does is confirm to the agenda of the western ruling classes. For example, he frequently says things about religion being bad and how we should all join together, typical feel good meaningless claptrap.

>>3404991
He wants your acceptance and acknowledgement. He needs someone to tell him that he's right.

>>3405000
Nope.

These psychoanalysis retorts you keep throwing are cute, though.

>>3405001
You want us to validate your view of the world.

Because daddy didn't give you enough attention as a child.

>>3405005
v
>>3405001

Keep at it. I'm sure you'll hit a nerve.

>>3405009
>>3404991

when did /lit/ become so full of faggots arguing over the interwebz

you're a child if you interpret "detachment" as purely monetary. buddhism isn't about laziness or refutation, it's about accepting how shit is and not freaking the fuck out about stupid shit all day. Also, the Dali Llama isn't king buddhist, try reading someone other than an old tibetan refugee for a change. like hesse, or somebody with an asian name (for that authentic experience). you need to open your mind, but if you're convinced the money you spend to evade nudity is the key to happiness, the process of unlearning may take a while. gotta deprogram, faggot, or you can't learn shit

a part of me thinks that this is for sure a troll but i realize that this is only because i only engage non-retarded people with serious questions
thank you 4chan for showing why the world is a fetid turd

Well, your problem isn't Buddhism or materialism. You're buying things to make other people think you're successful and attractive. You're basically letting them control you, design your life and spend your money for you. A guy who pays a hundred dollars for a tie he has to wear to work has left the path of self-sufficiency and is becoming dangerously other-dependent for his self-image. That was the main problem with Bateman from American psycho.

Now, looking good at work, or anywhere, in order to acquire money, gain access and get the things you really do want does make sense, whether those things are better living conditions, more options, or best of all, the funds and time to pursue your own private ideas, whether its a solid gold statue of iron man or inner peace and enlightenment.

In short: working hard to get stuff you want is the trap of flesh, which while buddhism may frown on it, is probably not that unhealthy, as long as you don't take it to extremes. Trying to get stuff to impress or manipulate the opinions of others is the trap of the world, and its a totally no-winner. It involves competition for a worthless prize that expends all your resources. Think of it as a potlatch. The final trap is the trap of the devil, of course, which is the desire to greatly harm others for your own minor benefit or enhancement. This one everyone agrees is a bad thing, for the self and for society.

>>3405036

Tibet was a feudalistic shithole just a century or so ago, the Buddhist clerics reigned sovereign over the entire nation and Tibetan Buddhism was the means by which they managed to do this. It was far more literal than you are implying when it proclaimed that wealth and happiness were mutually exclusive.

This sudden reinterpretation of Tibetan Buddhism is dishonest at best and in no way different from the evolution and reformation of Christianity to keep it's relevancy in these modern times, something that I'm sure most of you will be by far quicker to call out for the bullshit that it is.

>>3404927
Not sure if trolling...or just somebody pretty sad and limited

I understand the view point that material things and respect from others can be the ultimate happiness, its easy after all. I am somebody who buys a new shit just for the fuck of it and being the popular new kid in class, wasnt the worst time of my life either. Extra points for being a poor first and being able to afford the expensive shit later.

But...this all is so much more simple than minimalistic lifestyle, its just not satisfying. This are things that everybody who isnt fully retarded can achieve, how boring is that? A live based on buying new shit sure can be fun but sounds so incredible empty, I dont get how an individual could handle it for long.

>I want to look successful and I want to look self-sufficient.
Is where you jumped the ship with your whole logic. Living life so so some other faggots will acknowledge you? Thats like being cheered on by monkeys, how is respect from such empty people worth anything?


>>3404936
>at least christianity has respect for the poor
Lolwut, christinanity is pure slave morality that tells them to stay poor and work hard for their masters. I have no idea how exactly buddhism handles it, so wont comment on that.

>>3405041
/thread

Well OP, I don't have nice clothes. Rather shabby ones from army surplus and thrift store with the occasional hand me down average clothing store item thrown in. I cut my own hair, often badly. Aside from a table, chairs and a bed all my possessions fit into a large backpack or suitcase. My only luxuries are my e-reader, my phone, my computer and a stack of books.

I've taught myself to be content without cars, nice clothes, jewellery, gadgetry et cetera. I've stopped caring about looking successful or self sufficient. I do groom and exercise though. And most of my money goes towards rent and a healthy diet. Being healthy and not needing much else, I can feel really content just lying around or taking a walk.

As a result of this I can live of the scraps of hard working materialists such as yourself. I have 100% free time. I read and write and bum around as I please. I can't buy women nice things, but I can give them more undivided attention than anyone else. I can actually talk with and listen to people without being in a rush, without being mentally of somewhere else, without trying to one up them in anyway since as a pleasant bottom dweller I have nothing to prove. I live a life of such simplicity that I'm mostly free from anxiety and worry and have nothing to do than enjoy life as it comes. It's tremendously liberating to live life as if you've already arrived, as if there's nothing more to be achieved or done. I pretty much live in the garden of Eden, albeit a bit more populated and with a healthy dose of concrete. And to be honest, I'm happier than ever since I've stopped striving for silly stuff that ultimately doesn't really matter. I reject your claim that buying nice things beyond what you need brings any worthwhile happiness, since my happiness has only increased since I stopped bothering with them.

So you don't have a job, anon?

>>3405161
If directed at me: no.

>>3405161
To
>>3405119

>>3405115
>Lolwut, christinanity is pure slave morality that tells them to stay poor and work hard for their masters.

And buddhism isn't? It tells people money doesn't matter, so just accept your lot in life because the rich people are better than you because they were better in a previous life. Just accept your role in life as a slave because its what you deserve. It's a religion fit for slaves.

>>3405181
Slaves and emperors. To top of society don't have it easy accepting their role either. Actually, it's fit for everyone. Do you even Stoicism?

>>3405181
Well, as I said, I dont know that much about it but doesnt buddhism promote a rather minimalistic, "work for yourself" and "live on donations lifestyle" which is contra productive for the rulers, specially in the days of consumerism we have now.

>>3405181
Buddhist acceptance isn't so static. You should accept moving up in the world as well. Or moving down in it.

>>3405206
Stoics didn't have reincarnation as a corner stone of their belief.

>>3405119
how are you posting this if quote ' I've taught myself to be content without cars, nice clothes, jewellery, gadgetry et cetera'
gadgetry I'm assuming includes computers

>>3405264
Why would it? Computers are dirt cheap this days.

>>3405264
I don't think a computer could really be considered a gadget these days. I was thinking more of expensive technological novelty play things with limited use as far as gadgets go. Computers are so wide spread, available and ingrained in our society that they are no more gadgets than cars or bikes.

>>3405291
well computers have a limited live which would put them under your 'limited use' field and also do you really need a computer? could it not be described as a 'play thing'? a local library is ,at least in the country i live in, usually consisting of a computer making self ownership quite unnecessary would it not?

>>3405301
But its a lot more conformable owning one yourself. Besides, watching porn in the library is not a thing for everybody.

>>3405311
oh you're one of those 'normal' people who doesn't masturbate in the library

>>3405314
Lets just say, I am trying...

>>3405115
>A live based on buying new shit sure can be fun but sounds so incredible empty, I dont get how an individual could handle it for long.

Please tell me what other -realistic- options there are to live the grandiose life you imply exists?

>Everyone can buy clothes.

Well shit, so what? Mostly anyone could be X if they put their mind to it. It's a completely empty argument.

>Monkeys

This is such a childish and uninformed mindset it's embarassing. You claim I'm superficial by wanting to dress nice, yet in the same breath you refer to people as "monkeys". You sound like one of those 16 year old goth kids who are stuck in their own world thinking everyone is 'inferior'.

They mistake a heightened sense of self with intellectualism and success. "I pondered life more than you did, therefore I am smarter overall".

Rediculous. Just read back what you posted to yourself and I'm sure you'll be thrown off as much as I am.

>Dont let others dictate you maaaan

Give me a fucking break. If you're so god damned independent how come you aren't wearing a trash bag and sandals made of tape? Because everyone, on some level, is dependent on others. Shaming one for going the extra mile to get a compliment or two is flat out retarded and hypocritical.

>>3405301
Outsourcing isn't necessarily preferable in a life of simplicity. Life for me is more pleasant and less complicated owning one myself. Relying on the library would only make things more complicated and frustrating. Computers fall in the category of "not really essential, but not a vain luxury" for me. I'm not striving towards the greatest austerity, but towards the equilibrium where the expended energy (or money) is worth the resulting joy.

They're also the greatest thing to happen to poorfags since welfare. Most of your communication, education, art and entertainment needs along with many other things all in a single device? Glorious.

>>3405319
>dependency being a continuum instead of a dichotomy makes the whole concept redundant so you might as well become as dependant as possible

>this thread

>>3405322
as a poorfag i approve of this message

>>3405326
>as dependant as possible

>>3405327
Ikkyu knew what's up. Dismissing luxuries but embracing the hearty pleasures of life (fucking, drinking) is the proper asceticism.

>>3404927
troll or pathetic.

>>3405331
Keep struggling in your cubicle spending hundreds of dollars on threads to cover your putty physique so you can get compliments on fabric while still being a diseased ramen eating pale mess while the poorfags are being healthy, vital, suntanned swoletarians.

Of course happiness doesn't come from within, but it also doesn't come from without. Happiness is a state with conditions in both your relations between you and yourself and you and others.

The reason people focus on the internal aspect of happiness is because people's reflexive reactions, until the person does serious introspection and social-analysis, are founded on all sorts of poorly conceived versions of cultural commonplaces. Buddhism goes too far by wiping these out and making the follower a-social, but it helps you look at them as 'objects' rather than 'me.' Also helps with preoccupation, which can seriously fuck up the aesthetic dimension of your life -- BUT

For example of the poorness of your conception, your notion that looking successful = gadgets and nice clothes is partly true, but your appearance to others is something that's much more complex than you seem to think. Y

What are "nice" clothes are, for example. The market will tell you the nicest clothes are the most expensive ones. That's true. But there's diminishing returns because you can spend, practically speaking, a limitless amount of money. The trick to it is adding more, better criteria than expense to your process. Fit, durability, function (warm for cold weather, cool for hot, etc), and whether the item is represented adequately enough in your wardrobe. The last criteria I would suggest is social setting. That's the most important one; you can look "self-sufficient" and "successful" with about ten items of well-chosen clothing providing you don't work somewhere where everybody is stinking rich or there's a culture of fashion. You don't, you're an IT guy. Go to MFA on reddit or /fa/ if you want to learn more. Stick to the basics here, and keep in mind these people do this stuff for fun and art as well as self-esteem and social position.

There's also the issue of the clothes hanging on a body, which you don't take care of. No tailoring or expense truly hides nasty skin, fat.

>>3405341
TL;DR Aristotle's Eudemian Ethics

>>3405319
>Please tell me what other -realistic- options there are to live the grandiose life you imply exists?
>implying there is THE ideal solution
Its just about what you want in the end, with the problem that most people who have fallen for consumerism let the others make the choices about what they want.

>Well shit, so what? Mostly anyone could be X if they put their mind to it. It's a completely empty argument.
Exactly because of that, such goal is empty, not the argument. Besides, being X isnt quiet as easy as getting X.

>You claim I'm superficial by wanting to dress nice, yet in the same breath you refer to people as "monkeys".
Was over the top I guess, just wanted to empathize the point, that living to get respect from people who just follow whatever is told to them is pretty faulty. How can somebody, who let other decides what he needs, respect himself? How can respect from such a person matter?

Not to forget, you started this "I am right, youre wrong." thread...

>They mistake a heightened sense of self with intellectualism and success.
Heightened sense of self is part of intellectualism Id say, now success is something harder to define. Following the ideal people set for you sure can count too but it being satisfying is an other question and if it isnt, whats the point?

>Give me a fucking break. If you're so god damned independent how come you aren't wearing a trash bag
Because normal cloths do the function better?
How did you get the idea, that thinking independent means ignoring all basics of society either way? Nobody claimed that acknowledgement from people is bad and we should live isolated. People need people obviously.

The difference is to find the balance in living your life and living a life to impress random people. Though if your goal is so cemented into getting respect from randoms, well good for you, Id rather get respect from fewer but the people who I can respect myself.

>>3405331
HA

>>3405322
mein negger

>>3405041

everyone just calm the fuck down and read Walden, keep your head between the pages, not up your own ass

>>3404927
srsly just do a few acid/shroom trips thinking about this stuff and all the weight will fall away of the illusion you ask of

though I suppose you could smoke weed to

all attempts at happiness come from within, even material ones. they are just reflections of inner desires. and really it wouldn't be a problem but in most cases, people who place such high regard on possessions are complete fucking douchebags to begin with and buying nice things amplifies the douche contained inside them.

You have nice clothes. An enlightened person has nice clothes. Both of you are happy.

Both of you lose the clothes in a terrible fire.

The enlightened person is still happy.

>>3405115
>Lolwut, christinanity is pure slave morality that tells them to stay poor and work hard for their masters.
www.southerncrossreview.org/39/wink2.htm

>>3405429
>www.southerncrossreview.org/39/wink2.h
>implying Christianity doesnt shit on Jesus´s teachings

>>3404927
All of your clothes and cars could go up in flames after you lose your job and your vapid whore of a wife/girlfriend leaves you, and judging from everything you've said you'd probably be unhappy. Even the happiness you claim to want comes from within, as does all, material or immaterial. One is just a bit harder to get rid of than the other.

>>3405430
Okay, fair enough. I thought you were saying Jesus taught the poor to be pushovers, and that's completely untrue.

>>3405443
Nah, Jesus was really cool, what they did with his words, not so.

>>3405427
>An enlightened person has nice clothes

sorry, a shitty orange robe isn't what I call "nice clothes".

>>3405457
What I mean is that you can only be at peace in certain situations, and an enlightened person is at peace in any situation.

You spend your life collecting things and running from the absence of things. An enlightened being feels no need to seek out things or to run away from them either, and is free to embrace the world for what it is at that very moment.

Amor Fati

>>3405457
>Doesn't know what a hypothetical situation is.

Didn't even read rest of thread.

You are confusing asceticism for Buddhism.

There are examples of asceticism outside of it, in other religions or with political agendas attached or even without anything of that. And there is more to Buddhism than just asceticism, so it's not as if one should disregard Buddhism entirely. There is more to life than "subscribing" to religions as if you were answering a poll.

But your argument is on asceticism and you could talk about that without ever even touching Buddhism.

And I really honestly don't understand how you think it is so weird to reject material wealth. You depend on yourself, if you depend on the outside to be happy you're a slave of your context, we usually project that in other things and Buddhism teaches you not to do that. Much like a fatty wants to be loved, but he thinks, without even realizing, that a bucket of icecream replaces that. There will never be enough icecream in the world to make him feel loved, so he will always be frustrated. Material wealth can be stolen or lost and your happiness may or may not go with it, depending on how you attach it to your stuff. It's really a matter of seeing things as they are, the new clothes are not what makes you feel good, even when you think you feel good as you buy them, what makes you feel good is that you connect the new clothes to an image you'll show to you and to others that will bring more love. Buddhism goes on separating these things, to treat clothes as clothes.

>>3405462
Sadness is an essential part of life.

The very fact satisfaction exists it because dissatisfaction is also present.

Both balance eachother out and are very useful traits.

To block one of the traits ruins the whole ecosystem of our minds. We become apathetic, we become static. Emotionally stunted.

There is absolutely nothing good about the sort of 'enlightenment' you speak of. Healthy humans cry, laugh, shout, and whisper.

>>3405504
>Healthy humans cry, laugh, shout, and whisper.
There's a story where one of the Buddha's apprentices dies, and the Buddha sobs. One of the other students asks "Master, why are you crying? Surely you of all people know that he was an illusion."

The Buddha said "Yes, but he's a beautiful illusion."

The problem isn't crying. The problem is retreating from the present moment into the past or the future.

>>3405504
I don't believe satisfaction exists because dissatisfaction does.

>>3405534
We only know we're happy because sadness exists.

>>3405504
you are confusing Enlightenment with nilhism .

Is a very common mistake.

>>3405545
i dont think that's true. chemicals in the brain and all. but happy has a lot of different meanings

>>3404927
>I save up money so I could purchase nice cars. Nice clothes. Jewelry, gadgetry, etc. I want these things. I want to look successful and I want to look self-sufficient. It's not the only thing I'm preoccupied with, but it's unquestionably very important in my life.

Because this isn't important at all. Once you stop taking it so seriously, you'll be able to understand

Acquiring shit to be happy is like trying to blot out the sun. Learning to be happy without that shit is like putting on sunglasses. It takes less effort and is more efficient and will probably make you a lot happier.

“The world says: 'You have needs -- satisfy them. You have as much right as the rich and the mighty. Don't hesitate to satisfy your needs; indeed, expand your needs and demand more.' This is the worldly doctrine of today. And they believe that this is freedom. The result for the rich is isolation and suicide, for the poor, envy and murder.”

>>3404936
I lol'ed.

Mindlessly indulging in material wealthy isn't what defines an adult.

>buying nice cloth = happiness
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>There is no denying that buying nice clothes equals happiness.

No, the mind creates happiness. The stoics teach this same concept. To free yourself from desire, and to create your own happiness instead of relying on external sources and material wealth, is only the noblest of goals.

>>3407120
No, that's self-brainwashing.

>>3407120
>create your own happiness instead of relying on external sources and material wealth, is only the noblest of goals.

>There is no denying that buying nice clothes equals happiness.
Nice line. would use in a book.

>not getting things and getting things are both just as good!
>losing your legs in a flood and marrying somebody are both great! do whichever!
i never did get why the buddy-ists ever bothered explaining themselves, and why they didn't just lie down and breathe hell consciously till they died.

>>3408645
>why they didn't just lie down and breathe hell consciously till they died.
Protip, that's actually exactly what they do. (Well, try to, at least. Not everybody has the balls.)

>>3408633
Homeless people use dogs to generate revenue. People are much more likely to give change so that the homeless person can feed the dog.

ITT OP tries to convince himself that 'is' and 'ought' are and always have been the same thing, because he prefers to lie to himself than admit lack of will. Some people have the balls to see through the guise. Some spineless mankeys delude themselves. To each its own.