/lit/ - Literature

read a hundred more books, come back

real books, not a hundred the wheel of time books or whatever

>>3350994
o-okay... th-thanks /lit/

>>3350994
Oooh tripfag I can't wait until you post a positive remark about a pleb book and get caught up in your own snobriety. I'll be waiting...

>>3350990

Joyce is cryptic and obtuse on purpose. If you want an easier time of it maybe try reading an annotated edition?

>>3351004
>positive remarks
>on /lit/
Gonna be a long wait friend

>>3351004
i'm not a tripfag, newfriend.

i've posted several positive remarks about pleb books, like piers anthony, and i participated on a cyberpunk thread. be more observant.

>>3351015
What I don't understand is why it's ok for him to be obtuse and cryptic, just because.

>>3351019
You use a trip. You're a tripfag.

>>3351027
i see you're unaware of what a trip is.

>>3351020

What do you mean, "why it's ok?" If you don't like it you don't have to read it. Writing a huge jumble of riddles indicates that he was probably someone who would come off as a pompous douche, but Ulysses is the work he made and his choices don't require justification.

isn't that kind of the point though?

>>3351030

For the record I'm not that guy, but I wanted to ascertain for future reference if you are indeed retarded.

>>3351030
Do enlighten me

>>3351003

He's right.

So many young readers leap into this work because they think it's going to give them some /lit/ cred, then they stand back dumbfounded when it completely assfucks them.

Reading is a lifelong process, stop trying to race to get to the most difficult works. Any new reader who thinks they can just leap into this level of abstraction and instantly "get" it is going to learn the hard way that they can lie to other readers about their intellectual affinities but the book itself is always the final judge.

>>3351041
>>3351042
>Tripcodes can help verify a user's identity to others, and are a type of pseudo-registration. To use a normal tripcode, place a hash mark ("#") followed by a word or short phrase after what you've entered into the [Name] field (ex. "User#password").

>>3351019
Not my job to observe your trips, fag.

>>3351050
So that is the definition of a tripfag. How are we not on the same page about this? I really want to know now?

Also, for the record, when you post 'you must be new here' you sound like an asshole.

>>3351055

This is the saddest attempt at saving face.

You got names and trips confused and he called you on it. Just cope and move on, damn.

>>3351063
How are names and tripcodes different, moot?

>>3351050

>Arguing the denotation of a word when everyone else was clearly referencing the connotation of the word.

Typical tripfag.

>>3351062

>what is a tripcode it's my first day on this site please be gentle with me

Semantics: Autism Edition.

>>3351062
a tripfag is someone with a tripcode, you would concede? a tripcode is a type of password that one puts next to one's name. but i don't have a tripcode. so i'm just a namefag.

>>3351063
I was the one who confused them. And frankly, it's a nuance I don't really care much about.

Does it mean that I can pose as him and say moronic things, though?

>>3350990
He wrote it while drunk

>>3351071
I am so new here! LOL

>>3351038
yep

joyce said a child would get the most enjoyment out of the book

>>3351072
sure, if you care that much, the demiurge identity is open to everyone.

i try to be helpful in the dēmiourgos spirit but you're free to do whatever.

>>3351044
the book being the final judge is an accurate analysis.

>>3351071
Tripfag is generally used as a slur against people who give up anonymity. The key difference between a normal poster and a tripfag is that the tripfag has selected to be identifiable. Whether that is through a trip code or just a name is irrelevant when using the term tripfag, since the connotation of the term encompasses both.

>>3351072

>And frankly, it's a nuance I don't really care much about.

Your constant replies to spin a little detail you got incorrect say otherwise. In fact it's hilarious how much you care.

david foster wallace would of wrote it better

>>3351090

>would of wrote

sdlahdqanjrwkl;nqaw;iorfhqpwirepq676qweyqwkljble7623892348-970348789

>>3351085
This is so stupid I can't....
Please let it be noted that these are the types who like to tell others that Ulysses is 2deep4u.

Here's the deal op, Ulysses was the work of an egomaniac who wanted literary immortality. He deliberately added incredibly oblique references and puzzles that'll "keep the professors busy for centuries" as he sez. To understand the references you'd need a degree in advanced obscurology and bullshitonomy, or a separate textbook-size book of annotations. Then youll see that there's no possible way it wasnt meant to be understood by the average reader. Even after reading the annotation, i still dont know what the fuck 'the ineluctable modality of the visible' is. Some Aristotelian quackery. Joyce could've written a great book for the ages, instead he wrote Ulysses.

>>3351153
hey you guys we got another genius seeing the emperor is naked, break out the cake.

>>3351157
Pls refer to
>>3351097

>>3351020
because retards have decided this is literature, therefore it's Okay

>>3351153
I may copy this so I can paste it in every JJ thread henceforth, I suggest you do the same because this: "a degree in advanced obscurology and bullshitonomy" must be preserved.

>>3351222
my bad, forgot to unfag my trip.

>>3351222
By all means. Im on my cell so i can't

>>3351004
He's a namefag.
A tripfag uses a tripcode.

>>3351153
>Even after reading the annotation, i still dont know what the fuck 'the ineluctable modality of the visible' is.

Instead of turning to a book of annotations for this, you should try an English dictionary. This might also solve a lot of problems the OP is having as well. You can read Ulysses just fine without understanding all the references. It sounds like you guys just don't understand the words and how they form a sentence. As was said early in the thread, reading more will help. Try again in a year or two.

If it weren't for Ulysses we wouldn't have Star Wars.

>>3351250
I'd be really amused to see you defend this statement.

>>3351257

Not him, but Obi-Wan pulled some Stephen Dedalus shit.

>>3351250
would you care to explain your peculiar point of view??

>>3351249
>implying im not already obsessed with looking things up in the dictionary and know what those individual words mean.
If i didn't know what they meant i wouldn't have them memorized

>>3351279

Then what's the problem?

>>3351285
Ornery sabbatical corner

You know what these individual words mean, right? But together they make no sense. I might have had a reason for putting them together like that, but i wouldn't expect you to magically understand.

>>3351292

Let's take it one step at a time here.

>Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.

>ineluctable
Adjective
Unable to be resisted or avoided; inescapable: "the ineluctable facts".

>modality
Noun
A particular mode in which something exists or is experienced or expressed.

>of
Preposition
Expressing the relationship between a part and a whole: "the sleeve of his coat".
Expressing the relationship between a scale or measure and a value: "an increase of 5 percent".

>the
Adjective
Denoting one or more people or things already mentioned or assumed to be common knowledge

>visible
Adjective
Able to be seen.

>Inescapable suchness of things.

Are you getting caught on the "modality"? It's not some mind-blowing 3deep5u sentence, it's just part of Stephen's little thought experiment. It's certainly quite the little phrase, I think of it as made to shock the reader from the transition between the simple style of the first two chapters and the more convoluted style of Stephen's consciousness. A minor background in philosophy would certainly help you get through Stephen's pretentiousness, but really, just knowing the words will get you through the chapter.

>>3351312
You forgot that modality also refers to the physical senses, e.g. the visible modality. You defined the words, but you failed to come up with a conclusion or interpretation about what they mean together, same problem as mine, only you seem blind to it.

>>3350990
>currently on page 20
>tfw I often find that I have no idea what is going on
Hahahahahahahaha just wait until page 200!
Or even 400! Wait until page 400!

>>3351312
>Inescapable suchness of things.
So why not say that instead of being pretentious about it?

Joyce is wank

>>3351312

>>3351347
I'm sorry, what did Joyce say? I believe it was his character who said it. Do you discount the role of pretentiousness in character development?

>>3351292
>ornery sabbatical corner
>together they make no sense
>implying that's not the place in kindergarten where the timeout chair is located

>>3351292
I only read the first three words of your sentence earlier and I took it to mean that your post was a post, remote to the public opinion, in which you grumpily undertook a topical digression of some sort.

I didn't read it in full until I read >>3351365, who is in my opinion 100% correct, if in a different sense.

>>3351365
lol. I was expecting someone would try to make sense of that

>>3351365
So..is Ulysses just a mental exercise to make sense of what Joyce put together? A sort of puzzle where meaning and vocabulary are the pieces that need to be deciphered before putting it all together?

15/10 now I know why it's elder god literary work

I'm currently on page 70 and I think this shit is fantastic, though I only get about 75% of the stuff what's going on. Much more problems does Pynchon's V. cause to me at the moment. I'm halfway through and I often don't have a fucking clue where the characters are, which year it is (although it's often indicated) and how I have to imagine them and the scene in which stuff takes place. Was this mindfuckery intended by Pynchon or am I doing it wrong?

>>3351020
i think he means, why is it that joyce can do this and his work is hailed a masterpiece, whereas anyone else can do something similar but it's just pretentious shit

>>3350990
If you want to get into Joyce read Dubliners. IMO it is very understandable and fantastic.

Just remember, it can always get worse

>>3351775
What is that? Make it stopppp.

>>3351775
I was waiting to find ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ somewhere on that page.

>>3351775
Very readable - the literary exercise of that section is actually quite refreshing on future reads.

So... what's GOOD about Ulysses except for how oh-so-clever it is?

>>3351925

Because Ulysses always makes me think of the lines from the introduction to Stoner, which quote John Williams saying:

"As if a novel is something to be studied and understood rather than experienced."

and

“And literature is written to be entertaining?” Wooley suggests again, “Absolutely. My God, to read without joy is stupid.”

>waits for people to call John Williams pleb

>>3351925

It's quite funny.

#1 piece of advice I can give on reading Ulysses without an academic spur:

If you're having too much trouble with it walk away and read other things for a few more years and come back.

>>3351775
Perfectly readable for someone whose first language is English, or is very fluent with it.
Otherwise, no.

>>3351934
Who other than a pleb doesn't read Ulysses with joy?

Read it slowly op and never continue reading if you don't know what is going on.

You sound like you're reading too fast and continuing to read when your mind wanders. If you start to think about something irrelevant to the book, don't keep going, stop and go back, don't ever continue reading if you're lost.

READ SLOW

>>3351775
From which book is this, if I may ask?

>>3352093
A section in Infinite Jest

>>3352128
You're not fooling me, Anon, that stuff could've only been written by a brit

>>3351775
This reminds me of the time I found paperback copies of My Immortal on sale and almost bought a couple to sneak into my AP English teacher's bookshelf.

>>3351775
Gaston confirmed for Zizek.

No matter how many 20 year old dipshits come in here and say "well, I read it at 18/19/20 and I understood it perfectly", you cannot read Ulysses until at least your mid twenties. I mean, you can. But you won't get much out of it.

Only the idiots on this board would try and read the difficult books first without putting in time reading the classics. And not only the classics, but criticism and poetry. "B-but I bet I'LL get it. I'm smart!" It's not about that, you fuckhead. It's never about that.

>>3352163
>And not only the classics, but criticism and poetry.

Criticism and poetry is classics you piece of shit

>>3351775
Irvine Welsh's Trainspotting is a lot like this.

>>3352170
Do I have to draw a Venn Diagram for you? You idiots are terrible at thinking.

>>3351775
Read a clockwork orange. The three pages you're shouting "what the fuck am I reading" and by the end you're like, "oh. Of course. Droogs and the ol luna. Give er the ol' in out in out lads."

>>3352217
>Do I have to draw a Venn Diagram for you?
Yes.

>>3352163
Please be trolling.

>>3351775
It's like reading the Facebook posts of a 12 yr old nigger.

>>3352217
I was trying to out-pedant you, and it seems I won, cool

>>3352289
HAHA

>>3351312
>>Inescapable suchness of things.

That doesn't mean anything either.

>>3352280
Obviously not trolling, but thanks for your non-comment designed to offend a 13 year old girl.

>>3352294
>I won

At least you can admit that's what it's all about for you.

>>3352355
It means he's a materialist faggot.

>>3352183
As in it's written in a slang dialect? Yeah.

And OP, go away and read The Odyssey, Hamlet, Dubliners and Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man. Then come back to Ulysses, using annotations. Read slowly.

It's worth it.

I remember in High School my bitch ancient history teacher used to always mention how she had read The Ulysses by Homer as if it was some kind of great ordeal, or made her superior to anyone else in some sort of manner.

Fucking bitch, I moved out of that class.

>>3352417
Meh, older people (even just slightly older) are still of the mind that reading = impressive and doubly so for anything "ancient" or "difficult".

The person who wrote that wrote a poor paraphrase. It basically says that the visual, being a sense, gives way to subjectivity. It relies on a subtle and surprisingly complex pun to provide rationale for the claim.

This may seem obviously true to you but remember that Einstein was awarded the Nobel Prize for his work in Theoretical Physics the same year Joyce published Ulysses. Scientists, up until that point, still believed in objective truth through observation.

>>3352355
The person who wrote that wrote a poor paraphrase. It basically says that the visual, being a sense, gives way to subjectivity. It relies on a subtle and surprisingly complex pun to provide rationale for the claim.

This may seem obviously true to you but remember that Einstein was awarded the Nobel Prize for his work in Theoretical Physics the same year Joyce published Ulysses. Scientists, up until that point, still commonly believed in objective truth through observation.

>>3352426
It has something todo with tv saying how kids never read anymore. The same people that endup believing kids take vodka up the butthole think that reading will die in one or two generations at most.

>>3352426
Reminds me of this dude at college who called me a genius because I told him I read Wittgenstein. Yes, I'm a genius because I read a book.

>>3351292
they make perfect scene, old fashioned religious place of thought or sitting or worship, prejudice , tradition etc etc

>>3350990
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
16ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthur-
17nuk!

>>3352567
B-but kids do take vodka up the butthole.

>>3352584
Some older fellow walked up to me reading, in high school, and asked me what I was reading. I told him the Iliad. For some reason he was impressed.

Come on. Reading a translation of the Iliad isn't impressive. My entire class read the Odyssey.

>>3352598
Wrong book, bru.

>>3352602
don't get my imply bro

>>3352550
("Ineluctable modality of the visible"), the subject matter of the following allusions is found in Aristotle's De Anima. Aristotle taught that we are first aware of bodies through their translucence or transparency (diaphane), then through their colors.