/lit/ - Literature

Lexapro.

Get over yourself and socialise.

same here, bumping bro

>>3344914
That's what I've been doing, I have not gotten better.

>>3344913
What is this for? Anxiety or depression? Is it something my body would need to get used to and become dependent on? (Mental dependency isn't a concern for me, but physical is.)

more omega 3, more vitamin d, more vitamin b12, more vitamin c, more magnesium, more zinc, more iodine.

in short, start eating healthy and do some exercise. not being deficient in any micronutrient brightens your day like you wouldn't believe.

>>3344919

Both. Yes, you will get nasty withdrawal syndrome if you come off it too quickly.

drop some acid and on the comedown read the symposium

>>3344913
don't care what psychiatrists say, that shit is dangerous

>>3344921
I have taken vitamins before but they made me feel unwell, I have assumed that it is because my body is not used to having proper levels of nutrients. No idea though.

To clarify, my main issue is the eye contact and becoming unnatural; it occurs whether I feel good or not. It feels inescapable.

>>3344928

It's subjective. It either works for you or it doesn't.

>>3344928
>>3344922
Ah, I will definitely not take that then. I was prescribed Paxil once last year by a very incompetent doctor who had to look up if it had any side effects or if it would cause withrawal.

I took it for 3 days and it was one of the worst experiences in my life.

>>3344910
>>>/adv/

>>3344935

Oh yeah, I've been there before. I had an incompetent doctor put me on 20mg of Paxil about a year ago. The first night I took it I woke up and couldn't breath.

It's a really dirty SSRI.

>>3344940
>couldn't breathe

Dear god. When I took it I woke up extremely dizzy and it felt like my skin was numb and I threw up pizza all night.

>>3344929
food>>>>>>>>>>>vitamins(except vitamin C, can't get enough of that without eating a metric shitload of tropical fruits)

the point with "food therapy" is that you must give it time. for example, omega 3 works by balancing the fatty parts of cells with omega 6, which is overabundant in western diet. that can easily take a month to happen.

don't touch antidepressant medicines, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM

>>3344944
I intend to, although I am seeking out anxiety medication as that has seemed to help. What foods are good sources of omega 3?

My diet consists of: Wheat bread, peanut butter, spaghetti with parmesan cheese, bran flakes, and a lot of water. I have been a picky eater all of my life but I have recently taken the first steps towards eating healthier.

>>3344948
your diet is pretty much what I expected, it's devoid of most of the things I mentioned.

fresh fatty fish is the best source of omega 3, if you don't have money of that buy it in a bottle, it isn't very expensive. aim for 3-4 grams of EPA/DHA, the bottle should say how much it contains per gelcap/millilitre. that alone should make a huge difference in a month or two, made for me at least. add green veggies to your diet, fruits are great, as are carrots and whatnot. potatoes have a lot of C-vitamin and potassium and are cheap as fuck. just don't buy processed ones. in fact, avoid processed food, it's just energy and nothing else.

How do you have low self-estime and narcissism?
From what I'm reading you just have aspergers or autism and you just seem to push them away due to your autism and are unable to figure out how to act correctly.
I been there so I know perfectly how you feel.
You just have to figure out those ''social cues'' through trial and error and changing different persona until you find one that you feel confortable with and others apreciate.
Shit like that can't be taugh or learned by a book but some tips from self help books are sometimes helpful.

>>3344959
I've been normal and confident in socializing in the past. These problems started 2 years ago. I know social cues very well, I just think too much about them.

>>3344957
I appreciate your advice, I'll try those.

How can you both have a low self-esteem and narcisism?

Serious question.

>>3344959
>How do you have low self-estime and narcissism?
Those are often correlated.

>>3344965
>>3344959
In fact I can still be normal and natural and confident now, but it fluctuates and when it does the rest of my time with people in that environment is ruined.

>narcissism
>low self-esteem

wat

>>3344969
Same poster. To elaborate: the narcissism stems from the low self-esteem. The most overly confident are often the most insecure.

>>3344974
>>3344967
>>3344959

It's okay to just ask once, samefag.

>>3344967
This: >>3344969

I believe my narcissism is a response to being very familiar with my shortcomings. Also I am constantly aware of my own narcissism and I feel mentally choked by it when I am with others. I don't want to speak when I think I am motivated by making others like me.

I think I have borderline personality disorder.

>>3344978
Talk to a psychologist, someone besides /lit/ (I mean, jesus christ, you go to these spergers for help?)

>>3344978
Are you me, OP?

>>3344975
I never truely believe that.
Although it's true that people who are overconfident seem to try to overcompensate for something, I always feel that those who are narcissistic are genuinely determined and absolutely sure about their jugement, even if it's false, narcassistic people would never admit their fault or their error.
Like self estime was non-existent for them.

>>3344981
I cannot afford a psychiatrist, unfortunately. The one I talked to previously was at a free clinic and he was very unhelpful.

>>3344985
"Geniunely"? you're headed for a no-true-scotsman argument there.

>>3344983
Would be nice.

>I lose myself and I don't know where I'm supposed to look or how long I should make eye contact.

Aww, sweetie. I bet you have loads of wonderful ideas too, but they vanish when you have to talk to people, right? Even when you do remember them, you're reluctant to say them? OP, I think your low self-esteem is just generalised anxiety. You need to take an honest look at yourself and assess the reason you have it. Does it stem from childhood trauma? Is it a fear of rejection; a feeling that what you do or say isn't good enough? Perhaps, as you described your condition as a 'narcissist,' you have a sense of superiority when alone, a feeling that you are more creative and intelligent than everyone else, but you're scared of being judged, peer reviewed and being thought of as less-intelligent than you are.

Of course, these reasons are just speculation. But you do need to try and work out the subconscious reason for it. The person recommending diet and exercise has a great point too; improving your physical appearance will give you a better self-image, and not only make you perform better mentally and physically, but give you more confidence too.

>>3344994
I can relate to everything you said. And i can't figure out whats wrong with me.

>>3344970
same feels
i haven't really figured out how to get past it.

>>3344998
>Aww, sweetie
Not OP.
But fuck you, you condescending cunt.

>>3344998
>>3345008
condescending cunt to be sure
but also onto something in the first paragraph
general anxiety comes before all these other issues

>>3344998
I am aware of everything you said, I am constantly thinking of what my subconscious state of mind and my motives. This has been a part of the issue for myself. I do not think I am more creative than everyone else, and I have long since abandoned my ideas of how to define intelligence.

You are absolutely correct about my being afraid of judgement and rejection, although none of what you have said is new to me. Thank you for your post however, the fact that I chose to respond to it is proof that I am narcissistic and want not to be misunderstood.

>>3345015
remove the >what

>>3345003
>>3344965
Pretty much in the same boat. Used to be socially skilled with no overthinking, now I somehow fell in this shithole.

Firstly, I thought it's good to experience such different worlds so I can understand things better. Now it's been more than 2 years and I want to regain my social skills.

It's hard and I don't seem to be making much progress.

>>3345015
have you considered giving up?

>>3345019
I know how this feels, very much so. The only time I feel comfortable and myself again is when I am sexual intimate with a girl, them seeing my dick is like the ultimate vulnerability and I feel they have accepted me entirely.

>>3345021
Every day.

War war war,
war against your soul
Dig dig dig,
dig your coffin's hole
Everyone must face their demons
and now the turn is yours

>>3345021
Giving up is boring.
Giving up brings a simple resolution without any reward.
Boring.

>>3345029
Giving up on trying might be helpful in your situation though

OP and everyone else who relates - how old are you?

>>3345019
for me it lasted for about 4 years before i started feeling relatively balanced again. i tried very hard to get back to normal in the first year or 2 and it only made it worse. i'm still worse overall for the experience in terms of relating to the world.

from my reading on people that have gone through the same thing it seems that there's a good few that recommend actively giving up and listening versus trying to control it and make it the way we want it to be. ego has a lot to do with it as usual.

>>3345031
21 years old.

>>3345032
Does this phenomenon have a name?
except middle life crisis

>>3345031
Just turned 20

Meditation.

>>3345010
>condescending cunt
I honestly wasn't being condescending. I'm genuinely sorry if that's how it came across.

A few things that I have found helpful, OP, so don't treat them as fact:
-Don't dwell on hate. If you are the person who constantly hates things; "I fucking hate christians/Justin Beiber/ X-factor/Libertarians..." Don't. Your negative image of people isn't treating what you think the problem is with them. People don't respond well to hate, so try to have empathy with them if you want to help them, or stop disempowering yourself by wasting time on them.

-Stop thinking so much. Of course, learn and explore Ideas, but if you are isolated from other people a lot, your 'internal monologue' could be reinforcing negative outlooks and self-perception.

-This sounds corny, but smile more and TRY to be happy. Embedded outlook can really work, you can mentally set up a great place to start the day and fill it full of laughter.

-Busy yourself with things. Learn about Amino acids, politics, philosophy (don't dwell on nihilism). Memorise the capital cities of the world, or chemical equations. Keep your mind healthy and active.

-Objectively look at your problems, and don't blame other people. Don't spend long looking at your problems, (you can get caught in a negative feedback loop) but don't totally ignore them either.

>>3345031
29. mental life collapsed at 24-25, after being top of the world for 3-4 years before that.

i have a good job, gf, the whole catastrophe, but not the same mind-feel-heights as before.

>>3345034
dark night of the soul is one that comes to mind

deep depression / nervous breakdown would be the clinical description.

i never felt that i'd kill myself or anything, except that every single thing was wrong in every way, and that there's no light in anything.

i think the phrase 'hell is absence of god' is in my bones now.

>>3345038
Not him, but given that I'm going through roughly the same situation I can answer to some points.

>Don't dwell on hate.
I sometimes think a bit of hate would help me, as I genuinely don't hate/get annoyed by anything. I rationalize everything as being relatively right and I don't feel entitled to judge (might be the self-esteem, no clue)

>Stop thinking so much.
This would definitely help if it was within my powers to control. I can't help but observe every social clue, every move, interpret every emotion that I can notice.

>This sounds corny, but smile more and TRY to be happy.
Been trying this for a while. I'm always smiling and laughing, but it somehow makes me feel overwhelmed by all the emotions I have to fake that I can't concentrate on saying/thinking anything meaningful and then I'm probably afraid that people would judge me as "just another pretty face with nothing to back up" - again my low self-esteem and stuff.

>Busy yourself with things.
It's a great way to deal with things from home (although sometimes I feel that it's important to think more and solve my "problem"), but my problem usually arises in social situations.

>Objectively look at your problems, and don't blame other people.
I literally always do this. It's like some kind of stoicism. Even if someone betrays me, I blame myself for trusting them, etc.

Sorry for this block of text full of self-absorption and angst. I'm gonna go take a shower.

>>3345046
OP here, those are all of the responses I would have given.

>>3345041
>good job, gf, the whole catastrophe

so, basically, you've been brainwashed by, presumably, your parents', friends' dogmatism and social constructs; who then told you to sweat your ass off all day, every day, while, unconsciously and gradually, you forgot about yourself, your own intuition by building a narcissistic shell around yourself by being the pseudo-macho-man that you are, now shuttering into little pieces and having chronic attacks of depression?

all of you, take your shit to /reddit/, /b/ or /r9k/

>>3345046
>This would definitely help if it was within my powers to control. I can't help but observe every social clue, every move, interpret every emotion that I can notice.
there's a trick to this. it requires practice and discipline. 90% of people wouldn't do it because it takes too much effort.

a lot of the problems we talk about here are related to lack of discipline. we bounce around on feels and thoughts. i know for a long time i regarded discipline as a dirty word. build up your discipline and other good mental functions follow.

if you happen to be in the other 10% here's the actual trick:
whatever you're doing do it 100% and with your whole body. give up all the other things in that instance.

>>3345065
that's in the ballpark

>>3345070
Discipline myself to not to pay attention or think of those things?

>>3345070
>a lot of the problems we talk about here are related to lack of discipline. we bounce around on feels and thoughts. i know for a long time i regarded discipline as a dirty word. build up your discipline and other good mental functions follow.

lol. just pick up stoicism or zen you fucking drama queens. discipline and 'time management' alike faggotry is for self-proclaimed, special little snowflakes; navels of the world and masturbatory business men who are borderline psychopaths

>>3345099
But I like to laugh and have fun with others.

>>3345099
yeah you can sit and stare at a wall for a week straight without discipline. discipline is bread and butter in stoicism and zen.

>>3345077
it's different.

i mean to say if you're walking down the street just walk. you're not try not to think or to think of things, you're walking. aim for that 'just the thing' in daily life. be singular in that thing while being aware of other things. if you do it for long enough your body becomes like an anchor. while you might think all the same thoughts you won't be pulled by them and they'll become small in comparison.

>>3345116
enough bullshit from me

>>3345107
One easy way to start disciplining yourself is through fasting. It doesn't require any action, just refraining from doing something. It can be quite difficult still. Just don't eat or have sex between dawn and dusk, then you can kick it up and add in no tv/music etc.

Eventually it will be effortless, it will feel normal, and you'll be on your way to self discipline. Then you can do more intense things other than fasting.

I'm not saying do it every day, but a couple days a week perhaps.

>>3345141
Or perhaps instead of fasting for discipline, you calculate the macro-nutritional value of every thing you eat so you can balance carbs, fats, protein, and micros for an intake above maintenance, and couple this with a split routine work out.

>>3345141
>>3345147

>a healthy lifestyle solves anything

These are only remotely related to the psychological problems stated in this thread.

>>3345153
Yes and no.

As another anon pointed out, working out can greatly improve your how you perceive your body image, but there are plenty more reasons.

A great diet couple with exercise will give you a lot more energy – you will be able to focus more, you will be less lethargic and tired and can concentrate on things. Keeping track of your dietary intake can reduce a lot of cognitive issues too. Your brain and emotive response to things relies on a complex soup of neurotransmitters, hormones and receptors. Some like Serotonin and Dopamine are labelled the 'feel goods.' They can be stimulated with drugs to produce really noticeable effects, but even without drugs, your body is working to maintain a level and you can range from elation to depression.

Seratonin relies on a precursor called Hydroxytryptophan which you get from an amino acid called Tryptophan (8 amino acids are called 'essential' as your body cannot produce them) without consuming enough your going to have depleted levels. This goes for most neural activity; without adequate diet your brain can't function to 100%, and a depletion in things can leave you feeling depressed, anxious, tired, and emotionally shit.

Eating correctly and exercising isn't a magical cure, but it can do wonders for your emotional state.

>>3345166
advice of an average simpleton; take your terminology of pseudo-chemistry back to /sci/ and never come back.

>>3345177
Please tell me you are trolling, and not just an anti-intellectual that despises anything vaguely science sounding. This is very elementary bio-chemistry.

>>3345189
>anti-intellectual

you're the definition of an anti-intellectual, faggot. how universal is your so called elementary bio-chemistry?

didn't they ban your pathetic ass already?

>>3345234
Oh, you were trolling. I should have realised.

>>3344978

A lot of people are like that, me included. It's most likely social anxiety. My therapy is starting next week so yeah, can't really say much.

People say taking up sports and doing regular exercise helps with your energy and confidence but being socially anxious, it makes it hard to do any of those.

Without being forced into social situations, it's hard to get the experience and even if you manage, you'll get a rush of negative conclusions when you get back to a safe haven.

It's like an endless cycle. Even when you go see a doctor to talk about it, you'll feel like shit for admitting to it for an entire week. It's a mixture of guilt, regret and embarrassment.

>>3345251
>Be in social situation for the first time in a while
>Hate every second of it. Long to be alone in my room again.
>Get back to my sanctuary and wish I could have enjoyed leaving it.

>>3345239
trolling? but i'm not. explain yourself. throw those terminologies of pseudo-chemistry at me some more. show me how erudite and non-anti-intellectual you can get.

but in the end, you are, and always will be, a faggot, who relies on quick and short-term fixes of his already degenerated well-being

>>3345267
Either refute the basic biology here >>3345166 or fuck off. You are offering nothing of value and you're boring me.

>>3345278
kill yourself. ;-)

>>3344998

Not OP, but your post has described me almost perfectly. What should I do?

>>3345046
I think, and I speak from experience here, that your problem likely stems from anxiety. Unless you suffer from an ASD, which I doubt, social interaction shouldn't be difficult for you - humans are, after all, inherently social animals. You should focus on ways to reduce this anxiety instead of building "social skills" (which you probably already possess but haven't used/are 'unable' to use).
So I'd say ignore these tips, as they don't really address the problem - in fact, they'll probably just increase your level of anxiety; as consciously focusing on 'smiling enough', 'responding to verbal & non-verbal cues etc.' is mentally taxing, and these things you should/can handle intuitively anyway.

So my advice is: internalize your behaviour. Instead of basing and moulding it on external cues, use your own motives and convictions as a, as THE, guide ("only do/say something because YOU want to do/say it etc etc.") This will build self- respect & esteem, allowing you to hold eye-contact more easily, and the rest - the smiling etc. - will fall into place on its own.

Of course, this is just the mental facet of anxiety. Proper diet and exercise, as said, are also very important.

And yes, this all sounds like unfalsifiable-pseudo-pop-psyc-scientific garbage but I can honestly say it works/ed for me.

>>3345251
>you'll get a rush of negative conclusions when you get back to a safe haven.
I always get those and get frustrated as fuck.

cantdealwithit.gif

>>3345321
>So my advice is: internalize your behaviour. Instead of basing and moulding it on external cues, use your own motives and convictions as a, as THE, guide ("only do/say something because YOU want to do/say it etc etc.")
Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying something in the lines of "just be yourself"? I don't know how to do this

>>3345153
>>3345147
I was actually suggesting fasting from a religious/philosophical angle, as done in buddhism, hinduism, pythagoreanism, neo platonism and other religions.

>>3344910

Talk to somebody about it.
I'm not talking about a shrink or a doctor - I mean talk with your close friends and family about this.
It is the only thing that helps, and even though it may seem like a great challenge to do so, the reward is proportional to the effort invested.
Sources: Myself, I have been in your place.

So much crap in this thread.

Everyone thinks they know what's up with the mind, it's incredible. Including me for saying this, I genuinely feel this is the reason why you people speak of so much crap with so much suffering.

>No, no, take this pill, wait, food and exercise!.. Your narcissism is this of course! You're probably just... Oh well, give up! No, man up! Wait a second, you're just like me, anonymous, do this. Wrong, fellas, he must do that! Cuckoo! Cuckoo! We all face that, bro, grow up. This is just projecting. You just have to move your ideology from here to there. Yes! Read this and your problems will be solved! Cuckoo! Don't listen to them!

>>3345477
>stop giving advice based on your previous experiences

could you try harder to be above everyone else itt?

>>3345477
Someone should really do something about these birds.

>>3345479
Why should I if I succeeded?

>>3345477
you are so very dumb

teenager pseudointellectualism at its finest

I have no idea what direction to try anymore. I'm in the same situation as most of people itt (had them social skills, now i'm lost)

I still function in real life and socialize every day, but I can't say anything interesting, have any charm, think clearly or be relaxed.

I guess it's all from this social anxiety, but where the hell did it come from? I had a nice childhood and I was confident and popular through school and half of high-school.

No idea how to get back on track anymore

Narcissism and low self-esteem are not only related, they are part of each other. You only demand something of that which you love, you only hate something that affects you. When we try too much to be good, not to fail, to be loved, we are loving ourselves, wanting the best for us and thus hating on ourselves. As you take in just as much responsibility, as pride, guilt, with that comes fear, ressentment and so on. Anxiety is your head "trembling", aren't you tired? You must certainly are for coming for help, a way to relieve yourself from the stress of finding out a solution. Learn that what you do here as well as talking to friends and perhaps a therapist, is already a good step. You're "dripping out" this energy. You are full of it, as we say.

If you want to overcome low self-esteem you must also overcome narcissism. Don't expect that much of yourself, allow yourself not to think for a solution, and understand that is not a failure and that there is no reason for you to feel bad (it is a good attitude). All that was given here may help, I'm sure it would. But don't push yourself into it, because it might dissapoint you even more. The old "I've tried everything!" thing.

Talk with people. Psychologist, therapist, friend, parents. Rely on them a little, not so much on yourself. Don't take in more when you are already so full. Observe others and love them and hate them, not you. Relax, give in (not give up), get some rest, empty yourself and stop shaking from this tension.

I know what the problem is. What do all the people ITT have in common? 4chan

>>3345512 here

>>3345505
You were never out of track.

And it was exactly because you were confident that you expected so much more from what came next.

This is exactly what I feel it is the very problem with most of the guys that come with their situations on 4chan. The question you ask is "How to solve it? How do I do this? What should I do? What should I try?". Always demanding and therefore, always within the boundaries of what succeeds and fails, but it's not like that at all if you allow yourself to put the feet on the ground for a moment.

People confuse "letting go" with giving up. Anxiety only increases the more you try and try. You guys are accumulating tasks, duties, things to do. You must meditate, exercise, eat healthy, read, have this outlook and so on. Well, you don't have to, it's not a matter of "must".

It's a matter of wanting. Discipline reinforces one idea in detriment of other, so if you want to be strong and you are also tired, you're facing discipline the moment you go to the gym. In this sense, it's not much of putting an idea in your head, but giving up an idea: the idea of not going to the gym.

It is this sort of cognitive dissonance that leads to anxiety, we are constantly checking ourselves for what to do and who we are and what do we want. And it just gets more complicated. One sabotages oneself for wanting two things at once. Find what you really want. Settle for one, don't mind losing the other. That gives an ignorant strenght to go on.

>>3345512
>If you want to overcome low self-esteem you must also overcome narcissism. Don't expect that much of yourself, allow yourself not to think for a solution, and understand that is not a failure and that there is no reason for you to feel bad (it is a good attitude).

You do have a point, but I swear I tried this relentlessly until I gave up. I was purposely trying to act stupid just to get myself comfortable with disappointing others and myself. Not applying myself to anything seriously. Saying stupid shit, losing at everything and all this kind of stuff. I tried to be vocally ignorant, make mistakes on purpose and take challenges that I wasn't ready for just to prove to everyone, including myself, that I'm not perfect.

Fuck me.
I'm still trying, but it's disappointing to see that nothing works.

Admittedly, I haven't tried a psychologist and I don't really entertain the idea at all. This could be my pride or something that is related to my narcissism maybe. Fuck

>>3345534
I tried letting go, but I find it hard. I'm still trying, but I'm not sure what am I supposed to do. If I don't care, I don't talk too much/ at all.

How is this helping me?

>>3345535
Listened to Alan watts lectures? He spends the whole time trying to debunk the idea of a self.

>>3345554
I haven't.

What do you mean about debunking the idea of a self?

>>3345560
The ego that feels that it is so superior/inferior to other, it is an illusion.

Basically buddhism.

>>3345550
This, I feel empty at times.

>>3345550
>I tried letting go

"I" That's ego
"tried letting go" That's desire
Get rid of these two things.

>>3345535
>>3345550
My answer goes for both of you. Listen to each other:
>I swear I tried this relentlessly until I gave up
>I tried letting go, but I find it hard. I'm still trying, but I'm not sure what am I supposed to do.

You are living proof of what I said. You are trying. Still trying. Still thinking of what you are "supposed to do" and as I said, there is nothing that you are "supposed to do". Only what you want or not want.

To relax, to cheer up, to not try... Even those things become tasks! You are trying not to try! That is anxiety right there, that is the perfect description of it. We take what one wants to do way to fast. An anon come with a thread like "no gf, wat do?" and we assume he wants a girlfriend, it's obvious, apparent, clear. But he doesn't really want to because he wants other things as well that he is not willing to give. He wants to stay just as he is AND get a gf. You see? It's all adding to the pile, but not getting rid of what you don't want.

You want to ease your anxiety, I know you do. But you are told all these "wonderful solutions" that you must have in mind all the time and so you become anxious exactly because of it. Please notice how the most anxious situations are those that involve "suppose to do", ideas that you must act in a certain way with people, at work, with a girl, etc.

Sometimes you are utterly embarassed in a moment and then you realize no one really cares. You are looking too much to yourself, but no other person is.

>>3345581
If I don't care, I have no motivation to do anything though

>>3345587 here, cont

My final tip: go talk to a psychologist (if getting yourselves out of that situation is truly what you want). Sit down and talk, there is not much to it. Be patient, go a few times there, trust him/her. They won't judge, it's not their job, they won't tell you what you are "supposed to do", it's part of their job to relieve you from thinking there is such a thing. You'll be happier each time you go and you'll find out what is, in my opinion, the most important thing: what you want. What you really want, not just stuff that you need to add to your life, but stuff that you have to give up to get what you want. As soon as you are certain of what you want, it becomes easier to act in favour of it. Our heads are complicated and we always find a way to sabotage ourselves, so it takes patience to get rid of these spy-thoughts, which will lead you to trust yourself a little more and act more accordingly, not towards what people think you are supposed to do, but towards your own goals and desires. What you want.

not /lit/. not even pretending to be /lit/. no justification at all.

Narcissism and low self-esteem result from fear. It's just what you consciously tell yourself to soothe deeper anxieties.

The popular remedy is desensitization. Just force yourself into social situations until they don't feel so alien.

You really need a positive relationship with someone as well. It could be a therapist, friend, etc, but you just need to meet with someone whom you can talk with comfortably and explore your fears.

Finally, practice empathy. How much do you judge someone for keeping eye contact for too long? The healthy answer is "not at all I don't give a fuck". In that specific example, it takes two to maintain eye contact, so hold it for as long as you'd like. Other people don't give a shit about 98% of what you do, there is no reason to fear them

>>3345591
>>3345587
I still don't know how not to try anything and how will this help me.

And I'd rather die depressed than go to a psychiatrist.

Sorry for wasting your time and for the amount you've written to help me

>>3344910
how can you be a narcissist with low self-esteem?

I love myself because I think I'm so fucking perfect!

>>3345619
>And I'd rather die depressed than go to a psychiatrist.

I said psychologist, not psychiatrist. A psychologist is not there to give you a diagnosis like a doctor would do to your injured knee, he has no power to handle you medicine either. But to put what you say so yourself, to help yourself.

For instance, look at this:
>I'd rather die depressed than...
So to die depressed was not the worst thing in the world all along. There are conditions. You would deliberately choose to die depressed instead of other options. If an entity cursed you with a question "it's either this, or you'll die in depression", depending on the context you'd choose to die depressed.

And it is something as simple as going to see someone.

So no wonder it's hard to get out of it. That's a tough condition, you must avoid not dying from depression, but there are a lot of worse things that you must avoid even harder. Of course you'll sabotage yourself and stay depressed. But it's not that you are supposed to get out of it, it's something you chose for yourself, it's something "you'd rather" go through.

It is these sort of things that I'm trying to talk to you about. These language twists that impose conditions, tasks, thoughts, guilt, fear, into ourselves.

You're doing what you want to do. There is no problem, then, right?. Except that there is, because we want two things at once that don't go together well. What we want is not really what we want.

>>3344933
Lexapro will make you feel "different", which is a label I give to the mostly neutral and some negative effects of the drug.

People feel this difference, and they immediately think "the drug is working!" All this difference has done is cut off the ability to feel emotional lows (depression and being effected by negative thoughts) at the cost of also cutting off emotional highs (laughing to the point of tears, truly feeling that you enjoy a certain book, movie, or song with a passion).

Depression/anxiety are caused by an addiction to negative thoughts, and that is it. You can get over this through self-help, or by getting into CBT, which is basically where a therapist helps you unravel these "knots of your mind" that you have tangled up.

To all the people claiming that narcissism and low-self esteem correlate with one another...what the fuck are you smoking? Pure narcissist here, I don't give two shits what random puny humans have to say about anything, only what I say matters.

>>3345683
This. I go and see a psychologist every two weeks and it's the best decision I ever made.

It's not like seeing a doctor, and there's no fear of being institutionalised. You just sit comfortably and talk about all the things that you would never reveal to anyone else. They don't judge you, nothing you can say will surprise them, they give you good non-judgemental advice, and try to help you overcome whatever issues are bothering you.

It's a little hard to open up at first, but once you realise that they will keep your secrets and understand your motives, actions and decisions better than you do, talking to them will feel like a huge burden has been lifted.

>>3345722
What if you already know the reasons and motives for what you do or thing because of relentless self-analysis but it doesnt help at all? How would you benefit then?

Ive seen psychiatrists, and they've both been terrible. One wasnt even a fully trained or licenced one and the other was a callous douche who couldnt care less, and didnt even say anything besides ask me shit and get me hooked on gabapentin

>>3345742
Try a good psychiatrist if you live in a decent country

I've been on Prozac for like 8 months and the 'lows' aren't as bad, don't last as long, etc and I'm working on my way to becoming a proper Citizen.

Might be placebo and I plan to kick the habit when I'm self-sufficient.

>>3345759
Psychiatrists dont have nametags on them saying if they're good or not. And shopping around is expensive as sin in the US

>>3345767
Do some research then. Ask around, ask on the internet

>>3345742
Relentless self-analysis is not better than "just a little self-analysis", in fact, it may worsen things. Don't trust yourself that much on that matter.

We reinforce certain things in us and we fail to see a lot more others. And, well, it's not working, is it? You are still looking for a solution, right? Go see a psychologist.

Think of how you can only see yourself physically from the extremities of your legs and arms, to your chest, to the tip of your nose, but never your eyes, no matter how you hard you try. You need a mirror. Take this as a metaphor for the psychologist, like looking in the mirror after trying so hard to take a look at yourself without it. He analyzes, but that doesn't matter, because the greatest thing is the power that he gives you for you to do the self-analysis. It is yours and it never ceases to be yours during therapy.

Psychiatrists are a different thing all together, you'll have all sorts of them. From some real good folks, who are willing to look at it from all perspectives, to others that, as you said, couldn't care less and are just there to give you some pills and take your cash.

That doesn't mean all psychologists will be able to help you, so be careful, but at the same time, not too careful. Give it a chance and be patient. The more you go the more you'll know whether it is doing you good or bad.

>can't face your demons
>better see a psychologist

There's been studies showing that a couple of intelligent, empathetic middle aged persons with minimal training (less than a month) provided the same results as professional psychologists for patients.

But if you have money to waste and not big enough balls, I guess it could work.

>>3345799
Put it this way; It's an opportunity to have someone give perspective and dedicate your time and have them dedicate theirs.

If you go and think"Well, I have no problem! Nope! Everything is a -ok!" That is simply running away. You can't fight something if you don't know what it is or how to fight it, even if you had the biggest balls of steel

Does 4chan count as an intelligent, empathetic middle aged person?

>>3345799
It may, or may not. Depends on you, depends on the person, depends on your relationship to the person, depends on how you use that.

Psychologists are not there to "comfort" people. It's different from just counseling.

Studies in the form of statistics here are to be taken with a handful of salt. Psychologists are not just there to help, but to help you help yourself as cliche as this sounds. "Why are you here?" could be the first question one hears there and they will go with these questions all the way, not just to know your problem to pick up a proper solution from their drawer, but to really understand what kind of solution do you want, that is, to give you means to work with your own expectations and desire.

It's another scenario altogether. It takes balls to go to a psychologist and it might be expensive, but definitely not a waste if you know how to use it.

>>3345783
That mirror thinng is a pretty good analogy. I agree that relentless self-analysis isnt healthy, but i like to think that im able to assess myself fairly accurately. I admit to some biases and blind spots, but im aware they're there, even if i choose to ignore them. The thinng for me is, I'm a very private person and getting myself to open up is hard, especially in person where my social anxiety makes me clam up and whatever words do come out are not always accurate, since i look for the quickest, curtest way of saying something (so i dont have to be talking that much)

>>3345967
What you are saying in this post is exactly the thing that you should be saying to your psychologist, including that it is hard for you to open up and that you think you know yourself fairly accurate.

Of course, the psychologist has the professional ethics of not to take anything that you say out of the room. You'd surprise yourself to see how the most socially anxious people can open up to a psychologist, simply because he can give you a freedom that other people cannot afford to give. What you say is what you say, they don't interfere with what you "should say", but they will go "you said this here and that there, how? why?", you may something in fear of being despised and they will simply say "why do you think I would despise you for it?" and your answer to that can give you a hint on a lot other subjects.

I won't say that "there is no reason for you to be embarassed", because I don't think it is necessary. I think that if you go, you'll see you won't be nearly as embarassed as you think now.

>>3346034
Thanks for the tips, ill keep them in mind

I have this, only I'm older now and have failed out of uni and destroyed myself intellectually because of it.

Suicide seems like the only way out, really.

>>3346826
Can't blame you. If I fail university, I'll end this the easy way too

>>3346826
>>3346843
>Placing the value of your own life below a piece of paper from the education production line.
>Shiggy do wop, ba-da ba-da bop

>>3344910

Halo r u me

>>3346869
Apparently everyone is in the same situation on this board

I was very drawn back for some years, never took up a conversation with others, only gave short answers when asked. After a while I started to notice the weird symbiosis of low self-esteem and narcissism. It's really fascinating to look back to, I can't clearly understand why I bound myself like that, it's like I had something blocking my field of vision.

>>3346926
You skipped the part where you were supposed to tell us what's the cure

>>3346826
Think you have it bad? I failed out of high school due to social problems similar to OP's. High school. If it weren't for the Khan Academy I wouldn't know basic chemistry or geometry.

>>3346933
Well, it happened over the period when I was about 16 to 21 or so. I guess I just grew up. I can't really tell what flipped the switch, I just thought I should stop being so self pitying/immersed and stop sheltering myself. Be actually interested in other people and their lives instead of being interested in getting their attention or praise. Before I thought that I was constantly being judged, that everything I did mattered and had weight for others so I stopped myself from doing anything. So in summary, I guess, if you put too much importance on the things you do, you think the consequences are big and get scared/anxious? What I've written may be a bit rambling around, It's hard to get all my thoughts on the subject together in one post.

>>3346992
>What I've written may be a bit rambling around
I actually found this rather useful
>Be actually interested in other people and their lives instead of being interested in getting their attention or praise
Thanks

>>3346857
Its not just that. It's intellectual suicide, the feeling that I can barely think clearly or understand anything, and not having any financial stability.

>>3346949
>>3346949
How old are you?

What book is this?

>>3346949
You don't fail high-school due to those problems, you fail high-school because you're stupid

>>3347019
Something by Jung or kafka

>>3347022
I didn't fail because it was too difficult for me academically, I stopped going due to extreme social anxiety and couldn't catch up. I wasn't given any credits my first year after being absent nearly all of the second semester, and remained truant while repeating the grade the year after. So the faculty pretty much just told me to drop out. Obviously I regret it, but I can't do much about it now

>>3347022
Yes I know. I'm going to kill myself once my exit bag tools are shipped here.

The main thing that everybody I know who complains of these things has in common is a lack of routine. I'm beginning to think that everybody is chronically jet-lagged. They're as randomly clock-shifted as if they were working swing shifts that varied every week, and they have a lot of the same emotional symptoms. Here's a suggestion that won't involve stress, drugs, or undue exercise: Go to bed about ten thirty every night, and get up, and stay up, at seven thirty. eat three meals a day of roughly the same constituents at regular intervals, and walk to somewhere and back that takes about half an hour each way every day. Do this for ten weeks, and see if it doesn't bring about a tremendous change in your attitude. If it does, then start exercising/hanging with people, etc. But try this first. I believe im seeing so much of this lately because with television and games and s the internet being available whenever you want them and not just at specific times every week, people are basically coming loose from the clock, and the calendar. and this is very, very bad for the human emotional and mental health. If there's anybody here who's ever been terribly clock-shifted or jet-lagged, doesn't the feelings these people are expressing, their general affective gestalt sound an awful lot like that?

>>3347065
What am I, a fucking robot?

Guys please stop writing so many walls of texts, no one cares. wrap it up here.

>>3347065
>and they have a lot of the same emotional symptoms
Not really, apparently this thread turned in the typical socially impaired club.

>>3347066
physiologically, yeah, pretty much. Or rather an ape. Routines are how the soma part of your body knows what to expect to have you at your optimum.. It's why if you eat the same or similar foods at the same time in the same amounts your blood sugar levels stabilize, and as your body gets to trust the routine, it starts to have more resources available for keeping you feeling better. like it or not, the animal (or robot) part of your brain interprets variations of routine as stress. This can be exciting and exhilarating at first, but it rapidly begins to wear you out and you get all sorts of bad side effects. Yeah, the body is a machine. take care of it.

>>3347082
>Routines are how the soma part of your body knows what to expect to have you at your optimum
>how the soma part of your body knows what to expect

>>3347073
A lot of the people in threads like these are wallowing in social ineptitude: they identify with it and use it to rationalize all their perceived failures ( like why they're twenty five and don't own a rolls yet, or whatever nonsense) And you can't usually break them out. Gave a guy two tickets to take his girlfriend on a Disney cruise. he sold them and spent the money on new computer equipment and a TV and games. His girlfriend has been moping around and thinking about leaving him because he keeps keeping her up all night so she feels crappy at her job and then sleeping all day on the weekends when she has time to hang out. I think they like being like this.

>>3344998
>a feeling that you are more creative and intelligent than everyone else

Tried to evade this. Can't do it. It's just that everything points into this direction and I can't ignore it no matter how much I try to put myself down.

All of you, go to bed.

>>3347087
soma= somatic: the automatic, physiologic functional aspect of your body, like sarco is the flesh iteslf, , and psyche is the mental control. Quaint, but accurate

Cheer up, fuckfaces.

do you smoke weed? perhaps your smoking too much. Keep that shit as a weekend thing... that shit makes you a sketchball if you smoke it errday

>>3347135
Seconded. A couple of my formerly-intelligent friends fell into the 'all day errday' sinkhole and now they're very different, completely gone, very sketched-out. Moderation is key.

I'm going to kill myself too, if that makes you feel better.

>>3347144
If you were to do it, you wouldn't be posting now

>>3347150
I doubt it.

>>3347156
Then off you go, loser

>>3347170
Alright

>>3347181
Buh bye

Wait a minute, I don't actually have these problems. Why was I reading all this? You nearly got me there, OP.

>>3347937
Don't be silly, everyone got this problem

>>3344974

The most common combination, how can you not have the cognition to see that?

So what's this thread about?

Socially awkward people? On 4chan?

#whoah