/lit/ - Literature

define 'intellectual' and 'mediocre' first

no. don't look for excuses.

>>3334648

o-ok

Steve Jobs and, technically, Gabe Newell (because he dropped out).

>>3334631
No every genius got straight A's every time. Even those who dropped out or didn't participate or went to college when they were 10. They all did above mediocre in highschool.
Don't worry OP; you won't be an intellectual even if you did more than mediocre in highschool.

>>3334679
Although, the latter is clearly very intelligent. The former I'm not so sure about; he's a self-proclaimed thief and scoundrel. I'm surprised Wozniak put up with him.

>>3334631
James Joyce
Isaac Newton
Sergey Prokofiev

>>3334685
>James Joyce
>Sergey Prokofiev
>intellectuals

>>3334683
I don't think any genius got straight A's. People with 4.0's don't tend to be geniuses, just smart people who work hard.

>>3334692
Newton was worse than Joyce though

>>3334692

Joyce was nothing but an intellectual. He was an intellectual to a fault.

>>3334694
a genius is someone who is smart and works harder than pretty much everyone else

I performed mediocre in high school, but I'm doing really well in college. It doesn't really make any sense to pay to go to a place and then not try hard to do well there. At least with high school you had your existential crises and started doing drugs and having sex and whatnot. No real reason to show up to class.

>>3334700
If he has to work that hard, he isn't a genius.

If you ever wondered if you're extraordinary, the answer is probably negative.

>>3334709
>Jacob Barnett

Lel.

>>3334631
Einstein

>dat feel when one of top students in country
>dat feel when 'Anonland - Top Scholar' on my examination records

>>3334709
that is the dumbest fucking thing i've ever read

>>3334709

no way, I'm going to kill someone to prove you are wrong!

I dropped out of high school and I'm a genius. All you learn there is how to accept cultural norms and do what you're told.

>>3334723

Too bad being great at test-taking little says of your creative salt.

>>3334700
>a genius is someone who is smart and works harder than pretty much everyone else

hahaha, urine idiot.

genius is already born with supreme intelligence; it only needs a little nudging, expose himself to the field of his choice and grasp the theory for the corresponding discipline in order to create masterpieces

>>3334705
>If he has to work that hard, he isn't a genius.
Psh, 0/10 worst excuse ever.
If he isn't working "that hard," he isn't reaching his full potential.

iq143 (checked at age 14) iq144 (checked at age 21)
dropped out of school after 8th grade because of boredom
spent about a year in two different asylums
dont give a shit

>tfw none of us will ever be geniuses

>>3334734
No, I'm pretty sure I learned the basics of physics, chemistry, and biology while I was in high school.

The people who say that school is only about "accepting cultural norms" are the people who only focused on the social aspect of school while they were there. Complete narcissists with no passion for learning.

>>3334734
>>3334749
Why are anime fans such failures?

>>3334749

>dont give a shit
>feel the need to vindicate your worthlessness by posting your puzzle-game level to strangers

>>3334749

Having a high IQ doesn't make you an intellectual.

>>3334745
That's not an excuse, rude boy. But if there were a way to quantify the ratio of effort to inherent intelligence in a set of people and then objectively compare their respective output, a genius would be detectable at lower effort percentages than those with average or below intelligence.

>>3334749
Like in an american asylum, were they give you lots of drugs, take away your shoelaces and then charge you a fistful thousand dollars?

You sad fuck.

>>3334753
Hey that's not fair. I'm an anime fan, and I'm not a failure. A loser, sure, but not a failure.

>>3334752
You can easily learn all those things using the internet if you aren't literally retarded. The only reason public schools are meaningful is because they force the mental failures to live up to a certain standard that they would never have the drive or intelligence to reach on their own.

>>3334755
>>3334760
>>3334765

trolled softly.jpg

>>3334767
also true. a complete moron could learn those things and excel in any discipline; the education does just that. for him to discover something splendeur, new and innovative though, requires thinking and meditating outside the box which is i m p o s s i b l e for the ordinary, average Joe, who, not only has no idea how chemistry or physics work in the first place, because he's brainwashed and spoon-fed by the educational system, but has a linear and stereotypical way of thinking of a 10 year old

>>3334767
>You can easily learn all those things using the internet

That wasn't always the case, but sure you can, yeah. But many don't have the self-discipline, nor do they have the access to labs you would need to truly learn most of the material. It can also be enlightening to learn from somebody who has years of experience in the field (as certain science teachers do).

>literally retarded

That's an incorrect usage of the word "literally".

>The only reason public schools are meaningful is because they force the mental failures to live up to a certain standard that they would never have the drive or intelligence to reach on their own.

So you're criticizing schools for encouraging people to do better than they would have on their own?

>>3334781
You do realize how "inside the box" your opinion is, right? Pretty much every pseudo-intellectual in the world thinks he is above the spoon-fed masses and average joes. Just admit that you're a narcissist.

>>3334765

except the last part: after leaving you get the compensation, even with the primary deficit. i liked it there. peaceful.

>>3334783
>That's an incorrect usage of the word "literally".

No it's not, I am specifically referring to people who are in fact mentally retarded. Not in the popculture "he's like so retarded and stuff!" way.
>But many don't have the self-discipline
>So you're criticizing schools for encouraging people to do better than they would have on their own?

I said that schools have a place in the world specifically because they force the failures to live up to a standard.

>>3334791
Butthurt drone detected.

Captain Beefheart only went to one day of Kindergarten

>>3334751
Being a genius looks awful, lazy intellectual is the way to go

>>3335245
+alcoholic and suicidal would be perfect

The real question is how many mediocre high school/college students go on to become intellectuals. Not very many, most likely.

>>3335276

lazy, alcoholic, suicidal, and intellectual describe me perfectly.

Pseudo intellectual actually :(

>>3334684
Steve Jobs was a man of the Edison school of intelligence.

>>3334783
>So you're criticizing schools for encouraging people to do better than they would have on their own?

They don't actually do this. That's not even their purpose unless you take what they say at face value.

>>3335362
But that is what they try and do, regardless of their intentions.

I will never cease to be amazed at how any people on 4chan are convinced they are genius', don't feel the need to have any evidence to prove this, and think "being a lazy intellectual" is actually a thing. Oh so you have a high IQ? Big fucking deal.

Is it ethical for an intellectual to call himself intellectual?

>>3335366
Strictly speaking, no, they're set up to train workers for the machinery of capitalism.

Are there exceptions with certain teachers, curricula etc.? Do they try to give it a veneer? Yeah, they do, but it won't change what it's for and the net effect it has on society.

The ultimate aim was, and always will be to ensure you have the basic skills for employment. Its other aim is to instill discipline while performing arbitrary tasks, also something essential to maintaining employment.

Higher ed has fallen victim to this mentality too, so standards have cratered in order to expand the focus on credentials to preparedness for employment in the private sector, rather than intellectual pursuits.

>>3335382
What kind of genius needs validation from the 4chan peanut gallery?

>tfw you're better than everybody else but don't have the energy to prove it

>>3335382
I've always heard that a lot of MENSA people are unemployed and have poor social skills, since their IQ is all they really have going for them.

>>3335382
>I'm making retarded generalisations and there's nothing anyone can do to stop me

Nobody from /lit/ will ever make it big. Deal with it.

>B-but, muh Tao Lin

He came here after becoming well known in the alt-lit community, and only comes here for material to flesh out his apathetic, deviant characters

>>3335397
Insecure permanently adolescent males lie about their IQ as much as their dick size.

My IQ is 666 hail satan mother fucker

>>3335386
What you are saying interests me. What alternative is there though, and how would you go about ensuring it? In England at least, prior to the whole breeding the young for capitalism thing, higher education basically served the sole purpose of preparing the children of the aristocracy and gentry for careers in politics/lifetimes of high art and hedonism.

>academia
>a good indicator for anything

>disagree with prof, you're wrong because they have more degrees than you
>agree with prof, get straight a's

yeah, really great system that promotes intellectualism

>>3335406
Workers seizing means of production etc

>>3335407
Confirmed for university of life drop out

>>3335346
Even if Jobs wasn't an engineering genius he was still a marketing genius with brilliant taste. Also a genius when it came to innovation.

>>3335409

>implying I don't have straight A's
>implying I dont have profs sucking my D because I vomit back their shit to them

>>3335404
Of course there's a huge amount of people who do that shit.
>lel I'm the smartest man ever to live and my IQ is 20,450,500 I've just never demonstrated it in any way because I don't feel like it xD
But there's very few of those people on /lit/

>>3335406
Less glibly, I think there are already alternatives in place that wealthy parents send their kids to. Like Dewey or Montessori schools and such. Also some of the gifted programs public schools run are built up along those lines.

My other thought is to teach people practical life skills like finance, cooking, etc. on top of skills to navigate society's institutions and a thorough civics curriculum so people understand their rights and how/why the government does what it does.

Sadly these are all very subversive ideas if they aren't rejected as too costly before they're considered.

>>3335410
That's what I meant by the Edison school of intelligence. He had no scientific/technological ideas of his own, he was in no way an inventor, but he was excellent at finding clever people, latching on to to them, and making the most of their genius for his own game.

>>3335417
*own gain

>>3335409
Not that guy, but I agree with him and think you're fucking idiot, and I'm definitely not a university of life dropout.

Most geniuses combine high levels of intelligence with tireless passion and work ethic for their chosen field. Give up now, you'll never be as good.

>>3335424
The internet pretty much changed the entire paradigm for that kind of shit.

>>3335426
Right I don't really equate academic success with genius. Bobby Fischer comes to mind.

>>3335417
Right well on the continuum between luck, hard work and talent the public couldn't even begin to place most people who are now considered "genius".

>>3335446
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That Steve Jobs was 2deep4me and I couldn't come close to explaining his intelligence?

>>3335430

great role model there champ

i dropped out of high school(9th grade) and i have the highest grades in all my community college classes. That makes me borderline retarded by national averages.

>>3334679

Jobs didn't perform badly in college per se so much as went to a high-stress school, dropped a bunch of acid, realized high-stress schooling wasn't for him, and left.

>>3335474
Before he was insane and homeless he revolutionized chess so yeah he is.

>>3335491
Bobby Fischer was always insane. Revolutionizing chess proved he was insane.

>>3335491
How did he revolutionise a board game? "NO GUYS, GUYS. LISTEN. WHAT IF, RIGHT. WHAT IF YOU GO DOWN THE LADDERS... GUYS, SERIOUSLY. WHAT IF YOU GO DOWN THE LADDERS AND UP THE SNAKES?!"

>>3335501
Nice baseless assertion in order to self-servingly redefine genius.

>>3335508
lol and people talking down academic success are the anti intellectuals

jesus christ you people are stupid uppity petit bourgeois scum

>>3335511
I was joking. I'm honestly just curious as to how he revolutionised chess.

>>3335511

As idiotic as that guy sounds, he is correct in that being good at chess - even as good at chess as Bobby Fischer was - doesn't make you "smart". It doesn't make you anything besides good at chess. It's a game, and chess people are no more respectable than Starcraft people.

>>3335509
Thank you, my tender loving lady.

>>3335519
Man you could easily say that about anything.

>>3335526

No, I couldn't. But I could say it about any other trivial game.

An intellectual knows everything, a genius understands everything.
>>3335519
also
"I object to being called a chess genius because I consider myself to be an all around genius who just happens to play chess, which is rather different."-Bobby Fischer

>>3335531

'Dear Mr. Osama bin Laden allow me to introduce myself. I am Bobby Fischer, the World Chess Champion. First of all you should know that I share your hatred of the murderous bandit state of "Israel" and its chief backer the Jew-controlled U.S.A. also know [sic] as the "Jewnited States" or "Israel West." We also have something else in common: We are both fugitives from the U.S. "justice" system.' -Bobby Fischer

>>3335526
you could, but it wouldn't be true

>>3335530
Nah it's a very inane observation. Most "geniuses" will only ever be good at a handful of things.

>>3335531
>>3335538
No one said he wasn't insane.

>>3335531
> I consider myself to be an all around genius who just happens to play chess,
Well, we all have our fantasies.

>>3335538
"What is going on is I am being persecuted night and day by the Jews, for telling it like it is. They want to put me in jail, they're robbing me of everything I have, they're continuously lying about me. I've had enough of this shit. The latest thing they've done is I had some stuff in storage back in Pasadena for 12 years, spent a fortune on storage fees, a fortune on safes... and these God-damn Jews in America have just gone and grabbed it all." - Bobby Fischer

>>3335539
It isn't true you glib pile of shit

>>3335543

My point was that it is not worth recognizing chess players as "geniuses" unless you are a chess player, because what a chess player does is not of interest or use to anyone but a chess player.

>>3335547
>glib
There's absolutely no need to start bandying around those kinds of offhand compliment

>>3335549
Ah so we define genius solely around utilitarian concerns? Bullshit.

>>3335549
Not unless your one of those faggots who thinks chess applies to everything up to and including military strategism.

>>3335556
I think that's the problem. The word genius is used incredibly often, but its definition is so broad that any debate about it inevitably evolves into semantics.

>calling yourself an intellectual

Don't do that

>>3335563
*devolves

>>3335564
I don't.

>>3335563
Like I said earlier

here: >>3335446

It's something that's endlessly disputable, and not just because of semantics but because of biographical details and all the "what ifs" in the biographies of most so-called geniuses. People like to believe that genius is intrinsic and predestined toward success, but that's just obvious garbage (eurocentric too) on even a cursory examination.

>>3335546
Henry Ford revolutionized manufacturing and was also a blatant anti-semite and had terrible opinions about world affairs in general.

>believing you are intelligent
>405 BCE

>>3335594

Okay, that's true. What did Bobby Fischer do, other than rant about le happy merchants?

>>3335594
>revolutionised manufacturing
Kind of. He was the first person to implement mass-production techniques in the production of automobiles and thus made rapid transit a reality for the unwashed masses, which was a revolution to be sure, but beyond that he didn't do much.

I think people often overstate his influence. Also, his views were largely a product of his environment, and weren't really that radical.

>>3335611
Also, he went almost completely bankrupt prior to the great depression because he couldn't keep up when other automobile companies started mass producing better cars, and some theorise that he was partly responsible for the great depression.

>>3335462
No it's more any given person's life and the choices and opportunities available to them are affected by an endless number of complex external factors.

>>3335609
Don't be dense.

>>3335611
Yes let's talk more about people being products of their environments. Expand on that idea. You might actually learn something.

>>3335614
Final addendum: my point is that he wasn't really a genius, just a capitalist with a good idea.

>>3335616
What's the difference?

>>3335615
Why are you being so aggressive? What point did I make that in any way conflicted your ideas about genius being a product of environment?

>>3335620
The endless quibbling in this thread over who is or is not a genius is getting extremely tiresome. Define what you mean or shut the fuck up.

>>3335626
I didn't even fucking mention genius, I was just elaborating a little bit on the realities of Henry Ford's 'revolution'. People are free to make their own opinions from the information I provided, there's absolutely no need to get so antsy in your pants.

Jesus, it's like you didn't even read what I wrote.

itt: jaded, jaded everywhere.

>>3335615

I will repeat the question to give you another chance to look it up: what did Bobby Fischer do that was so remarkable - that is, when he wasn't busy raving about how Jews were stealing his gold?

>>3335639
>I didn't read the thread

>>3334709
If you never wondered if you're extraordinary, the answer is still probably negative.

By definition, not many people are extraordinary, but I'd imagine that the majority of people considered to be 'extraordinary' at some point wondered whether they were or not.

>>3334631
I got Cs in high school and am on my way to grad school and probably a PhD for English lit. Does that count?

>>3334725
You just haven't killed someone yet.

No, you're just stupid. Accept that you're average or kill yourself

>>3334685
Joyce got his masters

Newton was like a professor or something

>>3334696
How are Joyce and Newton not intellectuals?

why does it matter when you can have sweet Claudine Longet singing beautiful words into your ears

IQ of 140+
NEET 4 lyfe.
I don't give a shit.
Joining the army next year.

>>3334767
THe thing is with the internet they are too democratic with things like wikipedia and you aren't getting the most reliable sources and unbiased facts

>>3336632
>they don't let me be racist everywhere!!

>>3336636
Jesus why do you fucktard kids come to /lit/?

You have no idea what democratic means.

This thread is /pol/ tier

>>3334749
Mine is 143, we aren't that intelligent.

>>3336588
>Joining the army next year.
>IQ of 140+

lol.

>>3334751
>genius bar
>Amelia Earhart
>genius

Hi Ish

>>3337037
I'm not Ish

>>3336666

i'm not saying i'm intelligent.
i'm saying i've got genius iq and am a massive underachiever.
also, i'm saying i don't care.

>>3337151

Nah. You're just a worthless nothing.

No one will remember you, and you will never be happy.

>>3337181

how nihilistic.

>>3337199
it's pessimistic, not nihilistic.

philistine.

>>3336588
>NEET 4 lyfe
>joining the army

>>3337202

being worthless and being doomed for failure, such a tragedy.

>>3335387
/thread

Tolstoy bombed out as a language student. Cue ten million illusions of grandeur and insecure chan users.

OP should probably do their homework instead of being an OP.

>>3334692
How in the bluest of fucks can you say that James Joyce was not an intellectual?

>>3337246
>Cue ten million illusions of grandeur and insecure chan users.
That did make me feel better about being a complete failure who gave up on my dreams and became a NEET though

I spend a lot of my time wondering whether I'm extraordinary. I think I am.

Sad.

>>3334694
You don't have to be very intelligent at all to have a 4.0 GPA in high school. All you have to do is do your work and study 1-2 hours a day after school, and a 4.0 GPA is pretty much guaranteed.

Highly successful people have been found to have Messianic complexes.

>>3337291

You're an ordinary man

>>3335569
The word 'devolves' is a terrible bastardization of the Darwinian concept it's based on.

>>3335410
>Also a genius when it came to innovation.
and what exactly did he innovate?

Stanley Kubrick

>>3334702
>that feel when i'm going through this at 21, in the military, at the defense language institute

WHY DIDN'T I GO OUTSIDE WHEN I WAS IN HIGHSCHOOL

>>3336508
No.

>>3337436
yEAH BUT HE WASN'T A WRITER

>>3338551
This thread isn't necessarily about writers.

>>3337151

inb4 you die serving an imperial agenda and not your country.

>>3337301

This.

I was a D student from grade 7-12. In the last 3 months of the 12th grade I studied for maybe 5 hours a day to prepare for my HSC. Started getting A's in every class and got accepted into university.

High school is a joke.

>>3335410
NO.
Bill gates was a marketing genius.
Jobs was just a faggot.

>>3338621
HE WASN'T AN INTELLECTUAL JUST AN ARTIST

>>3338669
Bill Gates was a sneaky bandit, who snuck a patent onto software.

>>3338645
>America
>not imperial

>>3338677
Stop it, macfag.

We don't have genius here.
Some anons are a bit clever, just that, nothing more.

>>3338689
Speak for yourself, monomath.

>>3338621
HE WASN'T AN INTELLECTUAL JUST AN ARTIST

Leibniz was a genius and has had a larger impact on the world than I ever will, yet he advocated innatism.

>>3336677
>>3337211
NEET my entire life, not for the rest of my life.

>>3338764
I don't think you quite understand what 'entire life' means.

>>3338764
>NEET 4 lyfe.
>I don't give a shit.
>oh but i'm going to join the army and become a pawn for rich old people even though i don't care that I'm a NEET

>>3338770
Are you sure?
Let me rephrase, my life that I've lived in the past.
>>3338773
Why do you think I live in the USA?

>>3338776
I don't think you have a particularly firm grasp on the English language.

einstein had supposedly bad grades in early education years and his math teacher had described him as slow learner you are no einstein, though

>>3338777
Well it isn't my first language, but I manage.

>>3338780
>I manage
No you don't, you just think you do.

>>3338780

>140 iq
>can't speak English

Sure thing, cowboy.

>>3338788
you clearly don't know what IQ is

>>3338792

You're right. I forgot that puzzle games don't really have much to do with intelligence.

>>3338788
I can.
In fact, I am doing it right now.

>>3334731
unique.

>>3334709
>If you ever wondered if you're extraordinary, the answer is probably negative.
Actually, the opposite is true.

If you begin to believe that you're ordinary soon after turning 25, THEN you are indeed ordinary as fuck. If you still believe in you can do it, chances are, you can.

>>3338796
>In fact, I am doing it right now.
That's debatable

>>3339463
Every single thing in life is debatable.
What is your point?

>>3334802
I'm figuratively retarded.