/lit/ - Literature

Yeah man fucking plebs why don't they spend all their time on /lit/. Fucking old people just die already

>>3315488
But she reads all the time; she should know William Faulkner

FUCK YOU MOM, I'M GOING TO READ FAULKNER, DEAL WITH IT, IDIOT MOM

>>3315502
Magazines about royalty gossips don't count.

>>3315505
No, stuff like Stephen King, John Grisham, the occasional Sherlock Holmes or Steinbeck.

>mom wants to unlock patrician mode
>you make fun of her

you should feel bad

>mother buys 50 shades of grey
>this is at the height of its popularity when jokes about it are rampant and I'm crippled with embarrassment
>I secretly sell them on eBay
>mother asks where her books are
>told them I sold them on eBay
>she doesn't speak to me for the next two days because I sold her shit on eBay

>>3315510
that was a shitty thing to do

she changed your goddamn diapers, and you have the nerve to take stuff away from her because you feel embarassed

>>3315525
Relax; I felt bad and bought them back in the end.

Besides, I never got the idea that I should respect my mother just because she brought me up. I never asked to be born and having a child is an entirely egotistical decision, there's very little selfless about it.

I wouldn't read a goddamn infamous porn-mag at home and expect my parents to sit idly by. I think it was justified; that book is fucking disgusting filth with no literary merit.

I realise I sound like an arsehole right now, but you can't understand what an uncomfortable position I was in.

>>3315534

roflmao so it really did happen.

9/10

where would the lot of you have found the majority of your reads if it weren't for /lit/ ?

>study literature at uni
>some classmates reading shit like fifty shades of gray or paulo coelho
>mfw one of them on fb: "fuck camus and his stupid shit, it is not even literature"

>reading Bukowski
>Why do you read foreign books anon, do they even make sense?

>buy mum Seneca and Epictetus for her birthday
>she reads and enjoys them
>gets me Epicurus for mine

Feels pretty good.

>still living with family
I guess that's what happens when you get an art degree. Enjoy

Be home at my families place over christmas. Talk with my mother. She asks me what I read. Tell her it is Doctor Zhivago. Talk with her a little about the book cause she knows the plot.
On other years we talked about Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky or Chekov.
She hasn't read any of them, but since she was brought up in eastern Germany, she has seen all the movies, heard about the plots or had to read some of the books in school. I don't really mind that she hasn't read them, but I am really happy that she talks about it with me and is really intersted in the stuff I read.

>>3315534
Does your mum mock your porn for its lack of artistic merit as well?

>>3315544
THIS feel.
or from some classmates: "hurr durr sexist alcoholic"

>>3315541
Of course he's going to enjoy, he's studying something he loves, as opposed to studying something he doesn't just to get a job

>>3315534
Whenever anyone admits to reading 50 Shades of Grey to me I just kind of look at them with obvious disgust or ask why they don't just watch porn instead.

>>3315536
lol, is /lit/ the only contact with the literary world you have?

>>3315545
avoiding your inability to greentext, i am very jelly.

The worst thing is when your parents don't try to care about what you read. I'm doing my BA in English Literature and if you even begin to describe things my family members go misty eyed and say 'uh huh...'. I'd like to think that I'm interested in most things. Just because it's a book doesn't mean it's a monster

>>3315546
The difference is that I wouldn't look at porn openly or let my parents be aware of it. Also:

>implying I don't exclusively watch avant-garde arthouse pornography

>>3315546
Do you watch your porn in public?

Reading something like 50 Shades of Grey is just investing entirely too much time and energy in a wank. Far healthier to watch some porn clips.

>>3315555
Yes.

Just kill your mon.

>>3315591
m*

>>3315557
Oh god. I just noticed after your text that I unintentionally wrote all of that like I would write greentext... seems I am really to tired today...

>>3315591
Which mon?

>faulkner
>patrician

pick 0

>Sister in law is a teacher
>Graduated from a top university with honors
>For x-mas I get a collection of Dostoyevsky's' short stories, 'War and Peace', and 'Will to Power'
>She is completely perplexed and recognizes none of the authors

Just found it strange because of her level of education

>>3315488
>implying he said that

>Christmas
>whole family reunited, 5 uncles and their wives
>SO HUH YOUR DAD SAID THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN THE MOST SELECTIVE SCHOOL NEXT YEAR RIGHT?
>Y-Yeah.
>WE ARE PROUD OF YOU. HAHAHA, REMEMBER WHEN THIS KID WAS A BABY, SHE ALREADY STARTED TO READ BY HER OWN
>HAHA YEAH, BOOKWORM. GOOD JOB. WE BET YA GOT A BOOK IN YER POCKIT ROIGHT?
>Huh... Y-Yeah.
>WHAT ARE YOU READING NOW?
>Show book, "Toward an Aesthetic of Reception" by Jauss
>HUH... YEAH. THAT'S COOL I GUESS.

I still love them though. I can't blame them but anyway, I can't really share my opinion with anybody, except only one friend who's into books.
I love giving books as gifts and it just saddens me that I can't select some books with love. Oh well.

>>3315692
>SHE
>Y-Yeah
>"Toward an Aesthetic of Reception" by Jauss

Marry me?

What bugs me the most is that my mother only reads books after she has seen their movies. I have often tried to push her into other stuff that would be at her level and she will return it about one third done telling me she didn't understand it. Some of this stuff is like Brave New World or The Outsider. I think she actually cannot visualize things unless she has something to base it off i.e. the movie version. I mean, when you read a simple story like the Outsider and can't follow it I think you're borderline dyslexic.

My dad is a bit better. He likes to read but mostly easy stuff. He is a child at heart and can't be bothered with the "big problems of the world". We did a book exchange once; I read Mitch Alboms "Five People You Meet In Heaven" for him and he read my copy of Nick Cave's "The Death of Bunny Monroe". I thought he would like it because it was an, albeit twisted, father-son story. He said it wasn't his cup of tea but we were still able to discuss it. I mean, I thought the Mitch Albom novel was basically a children's book but I told him what I liked and what I did not. It was great.

My step dad doesn't know how to say anything that isn't the word "football".

>>3315692
You wrote this to show off, you cheeky monkey. Also, your family seem nice enough.

>>3315692
just looking this up and saw the only amazon review, thought it was amusing

"Like a bracingly cold glass of Tuscan Whole Milk, Hans Robert Jauss' Toward an Aesthetic of Reception clears the palate and the brain, preparing the reader for heretofore impossible feats of interpretation. For example, after reading this book, I now realize why Sarah Palin's vast erudition escaped detection during the Katie Couric interview. Poor Katie's low self-esteem meant she just wasn't ready to receive Sarah's Starbursts of Wisdom(TM). So read this amazing book and finally be able to participate fully, along with such luminaries Matthew Continetti and Rich Lowry, in the great re-birthing of Freedom in America, also too."

>>3315789
I first read that the book is written by Jesus.

>>3315488
I agree that old people should just die already. Why should the young have to deal with their mistakes?

>>3315559
links please
The closest I've seen is a nipple squirting milk into a small glass cup.
Would like to discover more.

>>3315771
Well there was a lot of talking in between. Like "Hey do you know who's King Clovis" and so all.
They are very nice though. I'm glad to teach them some facts but I am just sad that I can't really share any books I like. I love reading books, especially those about aesthetics and literature theory.

>>3315731
Why not but I've planned to hook up with someone if I ever bypass my shyness and social awkwardness.
Maybe you're him?

>go to doctor's office
>reading while waiting for doctor to come in
>asks what i'm reading
>"tentatively reconstructed fragments of tyrtaeus scavenged from the oxyrhynchus excavations"
>shrugs and puts on a glove, asking me to bend over
>recite ass full of farts as he checks my prostate
>as i'm leaving he tells me i should consider a phd in math, says starting salary is 300k

>>3315534
>you can't understand
>can't

Go be a selfish fourteen year old, you don't know what my life is like, twat somewhere else.

>>3315789

>>3315812

Oh you,

>>/sci

>Unappreciated by normal human beings.

How is your angsty teenage butthurtness over having no friends and consequentially turning yourself into a misanthropic faggot going for you, OP?

Damn it, just end your misery already you twat.

Where can I find a place to converse with intellectuals? University Clubs?

>>3315545
>having a mum from the good ol' GDR
That feel, man. Me and my dad always end up fighting with my mum whenever a discussion on ideology comes up. And I always feel bad afterwards and pity her for her ideological brainwash she must have got back then. Does your mother also praise the Berlin Wall, GDR, Soviet Union and all that crap to this day? Btw. she doesn't know shit about Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, etc. and calls me an intellectually alienated autist for being interested in literature sometimes if she's pissed.

>>3315534
Try not to cut yourself with all that edge.

>>3315543
>reading Coelho past the age of 12
I call fucking bullshit.

>>3315843
>>3315831

the pitiful plight of psychophants

>>3315643
You have GOT to be fucking kidding me.

>>3315836

Yes. Make friends at school. People coming to 4chan for intellectual discussion is comical.

It's like I told someone yesterday on /sci/, no matter which way you slice it, no matter what the topic of the board is, an no matter how intellectually profound you think that topic is, this is fucking 4chan. There is no way around it.

>>3315555
Can you recommend something else, O Getter of Quads? Is GoodReads something?

>I haven't seen you in forever! What are you up to these days?
>Oh, not much, you know, reading and stuff I guess
>Oh? What kind of books do you read
>how the fuck do you expect me to answer that
>What? Sorry I didn't mean-
>I read so many different books that generalizing all of them under one "type" may not seem like a crime to you but it does to me, so fuck off
>What the hell is wrong with you?
>Do you even fucking read?

>>3315534

>Relax, I got it back.

That doesn't change the fact that you're a massive fucking cunt.

>Can't understand

Except everyone who has a functioning family can. You care way too much of how people look at you; it's not even embarrassing, you little fucking shit.

>>3315854
ahahaha. yes.
..yes, sir. yes.

>mom basically in love with DFW to the point where it's really disturbing
>tries to talk to me about IJ and his short stories

*groan*

>>3315692
>not saying "Y-you too"
>actually keeping books in your pocket

>>3316063
email me your mom's number? i promise i will be a good dad.

>>3316072
eh

On a related note, my dad's favorite author is Dostoevsky and won't read anything written after 1900 not matter how much I try to force him to.

>>3315838
My dad and I. What's wrong with you?

>>3315692

>subtle use of female pronoun
>nicetry/10
>afemalehasnevervisitedlit.jpg

>2000, be 15 or so
>be fan of alternate history
>somehow managed to hear about the Draka series
>mom somewhat likes alternate history
>"oh anon what are you reading"
>uh, just an alternate history book
>"oh cool, i'll read it later"
>slavery, genocide, drugs, large amounts of lesbian sex
>"I don't think you will like it mom"
>she doesn't listen
Two weeks later...

>"anon, those books were horrific and evil!"

Well, that was the point of them! A series where the bad guys curbstomp the good guys!

>>3316112
I should also note that I think on some level she enjoyed them. She did read all three before the "These are bad and you should feel bad for reading them" statement.

>>3315848
>psycophants

It's sycophant

>>3315534
50 Shades is erotica. Low-brow erotica, obviously, but erotica nonetheless.
So it is art. Low-brow art, obviously again, but art.

>freshman year of HS English teacher is a total qt p2t
>would bang, she loved me, but I almost failed her course so she gradually loved me less
>come senior year, she's pregnant
>"What's the kids name?"
>"Henry James C________ :) "
>"Ah! Like the author?"
>"Who?"


also, not related at all but I love greentexting
>in Vienna several years ago
>notice a book entitled Beware of Pity in the hotel room
>stayed in my mind for a while
>order it 2 weeks ago
>came today

>>3315534
10/10, you got everyone else on /lit/ at the moment to reply to you.

>>3315559
So you blame your mum for not being a secretive hypocrite? For offending your Victorian sensibilities?

>>3315562
I do read Sade in public. It's letters on a page. It's not like having the tv on full blast. Also, there's nothing healthy about watching porn, I suggest you desist immediately.

Got "Ready Player One" for Christmas by my friend.

The worst part is, so far I like it.

I mean, the whole "80s" pop-culture gets pretty damn awkward, but I still like it.

“What are we listening to?”
“It’s the Flower Duet by Delibes, from the opera Lakmé. Do you like it?”
“Christian, it’s wonderful.”It is, isn’t it?” he grins, glancing at me. And for a fleeting moment, he seems his age;
young, carefree, and heart-stoppingly beautiful. Is this the key to him? Music? I sit and
listen to the angelic voices, teasing and seducing me.
“Can I hear that again?”
“Of course.” Christian pushes a button, and the music is caressing me once more. It’s
a gentle, slow, sweet, and sure assault on my aural senses.

>>3315986
You handled that well.

conversations about something intellectual IRL are pissing matches. not in a heated way though. it's due to the nature of critical thinking.

you can't carry on a casual conversation about something that requires loads of careful thought. saying something remotely creative and intelligent (witty) about critical theory or something in which you have little background that your partner seems to be talking about is really difficult. you just solicit the same old foundational platitudes that do little more than summarize what your conversational partner just said. then your partner replies "of course!," marking the end of that topic. for your turn, perhaps you bring up something that you have been working on recently. you frame your piece, and you touch on the main argument. your partner then predictably sums up your work in simple terms to show that he understands it, and then you say "that's right!" rinse repeat. this is an intellectual conversation.

intellectualism doesnt mean you know everything. it just means that you care about the knowledge that you have. there are a few people who seem to know everything. but most intellectuals arent even that remarkably knowledgeable in the sense of "knowing everything."

>>3315986
>I haven't seen you in forever! What are you up to?


>reading

>reading

>reading


No.
No.
No.

>>3316166
Why would anyone read Sade period?

It's pornographic trash.

>>3316305
It's part philosophy, psychology, politics, satire, comedy, erotica and other things. It's a bit repetitive at times, but other than that it's interesting and fun. Which works have you read by him? I would agree that 120 days of Sodom is a bit shitty, but Philosophy in the Bedroom is great, and Justine and Juliette are nice.

>>3316317
I read Justine. I don't know, it didn't sit well with me. I guess it's not trash in an intellectual way, I just felt like my mind was being polluted as I read it. I guess if you have the willpower to read it and not feel influenced or disgusted by the sadism and sex, then it's good. I just didn't really like it, I should have rephrased my original statement.

>>3316317
>Philosophy in the Bedroom
I thought that was a Woody Allen movie?

>>3315854
I disagree completely, and I don't think "this is fucking 4chan" is a good argument.
This is a literature forum on a popular imageboard. The connotation of 4chan being stupid is because of /b/, but that really doesn't degrade the discussions.
There are stupid threads and humorous threads, but there are also (mainly) serious ones.
Of course talking about literature in person is great, but I find that it is on par with a lot of discussions here, too.

Here, I just refreshed the front page, and I see:
-One person asking advice on what to buy
-a thread on character development
-An internet magazine talking about its new issue
-A discussion on who embodies Nietzsche's idea of the Ubermensch most
-A discussion on Barnes & Nobles's sales figures during the holidays

It's really not that bad. I'm not sure what you'd rather be seeing that isn't confined to higher level literary theory (threads pop up every so often about this) and post-grad work

>mom doesn't read but was well educated and read kafka, flaubert and a bunch of classics in the past
>knows most writers I mention

It is it just me or does it seem like people educated in countries other than the US know a bit more about world lit? I think people here only know like a few american staples and shakespeare

>>3315847
My sister read Coelho last summer, she made notes on her favorite quotes in her notebook.

She also just got into Cambridge to do her MA.

Although she did acknowledge that Coelho is something akin to the literature equivalent of pop art. So, credit where credit's due.

>>3317465
What a dumb bitch. Does she not realize she still has her heels on?

>>3317472
She wants you to take them off for her, silly.
Way to kill a mood.

OP you're such a predisposed hipster xD fuck you.

All of my friends read, we all have different tastes and we are able to discuss authors, books, novels, plays, and we also learn very much about each other.
I really don't care about my parents, they don't read at all and we don't talk about it, we talk about other stuff.
It doesn't annoy me not being able to talk about Literature with someone. However, I tend to avoid people I consider uninteresting

>>3315482
>tfw mom has English degree
>talk about lit all the time

feels good man

My mom only reads new stuff, says she didnt like reading classics in college.

My wife is a highly paid STEM Ph.D., and only reads US Weekly and watches E!. I know noone who reads more than 15 books a year in any of my social or family circles. What is read are Hunger Games 50 Shades Potter etc. My cousin actually called me pompous because I laughed when she said she was reading the hunger games.... I only laughed because its the only book anyone I knew read throughout the whole year, not because hurr CAMUS NOOB.

I recommended my Mom Umberto Eco and Never Let Me Go, and she told me she doesnt like to think when she reads....

>>3317551
>she doesnt like to think when she reads....

>>3315692
>it just saddens me that I can't select some books with love.

what does this sentence mean? I don't understand but it somehow interests me.

Also; Where do you live?

>>3317593
It means she can't select books for people based on their personalities/world views because nobody would value the effort and thought she put into her selections for them.

I'm quite loopy.

>>3317628
I'm a curl btw

My grandfather reads all the time, but he's into action adventure or thrillers i.e. Enemies Foreign and Domestic, Jack Reacher. Nothing wrong with any of those but we just can't talk about books because we read completely different things. He considers Unintended Consequences and Brad Thor books as fine literature. He's never picked up a book by Fitzgerald or Tolstoy in his life.

>>3317643
Unintended Consequences is a really great book anon, you should read it. Talk about being unique in the American literary scene.

Does he have every Ludlum paperback with the sick covers lined up in a bookcase?

>>3317643
Oh yeah, he also spent $150 on a hardback copy of Unintended Consequences. It's like...why? I know it's his money and all and he claims it's worth it, but I can think of so many good books with actual merit that are worth $150 all together. Not only that, but he bought another copy for his sister, which is even more outrageous.

>>3317655
I have read it, he recommended it to me and yeah, I won't say it's a bad book, hell as a gun owner I really enjoyed what he was saying about the second amendment and our civil liberties in general, but it is isn't a 5 star book, for me at least. I just can't justify the price of a physical copy. Yeah I know he has quite a few Ludlum books, those are good too.

>>3317665
I almost bought a signed 250 dollar one, its a collectors item. But I just read it on epub, after writing the author begging to buy any for retail price. He never got back to me.

this thread tl;dr
but listen to this little cunt niece I have and get the idea from another perspective. (backstory, she is an antisocial, egotistical, spoiled brat. For some fucking reason she thinks nobody reads; Our whole family has read for years, and various things like joyce, dostoyevsky, nietzsche, etc.) This Christmas it went something like:
>me "Hey kiddo I heard you're going to a pretty selective school next year?"
>niece" f-f-f-f-y-yea"
>"Yeah probably because you've been reading since you were baby! I bet you're carrying around a book right now! (everyone laughs, except that little shit)"
"st-fsf-f-gsg yeh (fuckin mumbling and stuttering shit thinkin she's cute)
>"What is it?"
>she pulls it out (pleb shit, something by Jauss I don't remember exactly)
>(hiding my pity)" ha.. oh yeah that's pretty cool."
really grinds my gears if you know what I mean.

>>3317875
funny

.... not!

>>3317875
>Our whole family has read for years
Is the number of years related to when your niece started reading?

>>3317875

This reminds me of Woody Allen... Its was fun.

>>3317875
I troll
>>3315692

>why aren't people as smart as me when it comes to things I like?!!?!?

>>3315643
10/10, I got really mad

>>3317964

You need to get help, friend.

>Girl I know: "what are you reading"
>"Nabokov" (not wanting to say 'lolita' and make myself sound like a perv
>"never heard of him. What's it about?"
-_-

>>3318009
You're imagined situation happened with my sister, who I expected not to know what the book was. After I showed here, she was like "ew, you know that books about like, a guy who has sex with a little girl". My mom was there too.

>Be 2nd year English major
>Take class on Postmodernism
>Tutorial is made up of about 18 females and 5 males, including myself
>The assigned reading one week is The Crying of Lot 49 by my main man Pynchon
>Every girl in the class either hated it or didn't finish reading it
>they cite reasons such as "the characters didn't seem like people, I didn't care what happened to them"
>they ask questions like, "if the book is about nothing then why bother writing it?"

>mfw all 5 guys in the class loved the book

And that's when I knew.
I wasn't an introvert at all.
I was a misogynist.

>people who read books for the plot

every fucking time

>>3318083
The only other Pynchon fan I know of on my degree is female

>>3318083

My ex introduced me to Pynchon

Get fucked

>>3318083
pynchon is only impressive to people coming from bret easton ellis, albert camus, philip k dick and other teen writers

you think that shithead has anything on the ancient greek dramatists, shakespeare or even his contemporaries like gaddis, joyce, lispector, proust? lol not a chance junior

its likely those girls just have a better sensibility for art whereas those guys peddled in sportscenter quips and wikipedia articles on people like tesla and sagan. pynchon is totally lifeless

sincerely,
girl reading prigogene

>>3318114
Do you not know what contemporary means?

>>3316317
>120 days of Sodom is a bit shitty

I see what you did there.

>>3318114

Pynchon can tell a better story than Joyce or Gaddis. He's better at writing exactly in his niche than almost any writer of the past fifty years, and at his best he's fucking masterful. That you think he's lifeless betrays you as a boring, vapid cunt.

>>3318103
Your ex was probably post-op and never told you.

>>3318118
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/contemporary

yes you shithead

obviously i wasnt using the first defintion but the second; god forbid i locate your golden calf shit writer within a different temporal scope than you, you wouldnt like that seeing you know he cant compete with those slightly outside his narrow time frame

dont reply lol

>>3318135
That's still incorrect

>>3318131

Okay.

>>3318128
your post betrays you as a thickheaded faggot who wants a bed time story that anchors itself on the narrative; stick to sci-fi or fantasy, or, better yet, sports.
lol

>>3318114
>proving the point of the post you're trying to refute

Girls be dumb.

Face it, honey... Your gender is responsible for all the worst trends in modern literature.

>>3318077
>But MUUUUUM! It's Nabokov, one of the 20th century's greatest writers and a classic of modern literature!

Yeah, see how much they care when they here the word 'Lolita.' Never explain the plot to someone who doesn't know shit.

>>3318153

That you think an anchor in narrative is necessarily a bad thing says nothing. It's just another facet of storytelling. Art doesn't have these limits you're prescribing. That's a joke. You're a child. Hush that vacant elitism, it's unattractive.

>>3318166
>here
I also had an english teacher who refused to read lo because of the plot

>>3318114
Take it easy, dude. I was just joking around. So, you don't like my main man Pynchon. That's cool.
I think I was just unlucky enough to be in a very close-minded class, I'm sure other classes were more open and responsive. Let me give you the list of authors that received largely negative feedback from the girls that semester (and these are entry level po-mo authors for a reason, it was a 2nd year course):
Vonnegut
Doctorow
DeLillo
Acker
Gaddis
Borges


Strangely, the authors that most people seemed to enjoy were Rushdie and DFW.

I've taken a bunch of 19th Century and Modernist courses as well. The female contingent seems much more open to those texts. This just my university experience, I don't mean to generalize about the entire gender.

>>3317875
I like you so much. Genuinely made me smile.

>>3318211
The more modern (historical definition) the course the worse the students in my experience

>>3317971
I'm not your friend, pal.

>>3315850
Why are you surprised?

3 in 10 Americans don't read at all and another proportion only read 1 or less than 1 book a year.

>ctrl+F Yahoo
>Not found

For shame, /lit/.

>>3318114
>misspelling the name of an author you're trying to name-drop for literary cred
>characterizing Pynchon, of all people, as "lifeless"
>being ignorant and arrogant at the same time (nice combo)

I like you.

>>3318229
>Decide to open this board
>See this thread
>Massive butthurt from autists who think that everyone is supposed to enjoy their medium of entertainment obsessively

I expected bookfags to be pretentious but this is ridiculous.

>>3318216
Yes, absolutely. It's strange because the professors who teach the older literature courses are generally dinosaurs. At my university many of them are great academics, but horrible teachers. They've been in the system for so long they've lost any and all passion they may once have had. The professors who are teaching po-mo and modernist courses are often fresh off the conveyor belt and still believe they can make a difference in the lives of their students. They tend to mark assessments more harshly and hold better discussions in tutorials...
So why that kind of learning environment doesn't attract a better class of student is perplexing to me.

>>3318279
The guy you're responding to is simply stating a statistical fact, that I actually believed to be far worse.

>>3318291
>They tend to mark assessments more harshly and hold better discussions in tutorials...
The Burroughs expert at my uni failed a first year classmate because she didn't reference a dictionary when defining something

>>3318291

>being tripfag scum
>moreover, being tripfag scum with Daniel Day-Lewis as your handle

whatthefuckman.jpeg

>>3318303
>I actually believed to be far worse.

We will never know until we have the actual distribution but I suspect you're right.

3 in 10 don't read, and the rest might read 1, or maybe even less. A minority of voracious readers is most likely skewing the average towards 15.

>>3318279

Reading isn't just a 'medium for entertainment', buddy.

>>3318094
Maybe you need to talk to more guys, because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I recognize Pynchon isn't as phallocentric as Roth or that crowd, but come on, he's muscular enough that every second English Major with a dick will bow down and worship him.

my best friend is really into comic books. I try to be supportive of him but it just makes me laugh internally when he tells me to check out a comic because the story is "deep" or "mature". Its fucking bright colors and dudes/femles in tight clothes doing predictable shit. Tried the walking dead comic, after about the 50th time of "hurr this is our new home" and then someone fucks it up somehow, i just stopped reading it.

>>3318338
Depends on how you define it.

The asspain of people like this >>3318344 just surprises me.

>>3318338
reading is only for entertainment, i have my transcendental signifier on speed dial

>>3318304
That's hilarious. I don't think my professors were quite that brutal, but I've been pulled up for quite a few errors that anyone else would have let slide.

>>3318317
What's your problem, pal? I'm not hurting anyone. And Daniel Day-Lewis is a respectable gentleman from literary stock. Not to mention a pretty good actor.

>>3318367
Go to bed, Daniel.

>>3318353
asspain? lol what? like i said i try to support him, comics just aren't my cup of tea.

stop projecting.

>>3318356
What's a transcendental signifier, slut? I'm genuinely interested.

>>3318343
Nah, Pynchon isn't as mainstream here in England as America

>>3318387
And literature isn't his cup of tea.

No reason to "laugh at him internally" just because he enjoys something.

Really, all that it proves is that bookfags have a massive superiority complex.

>>3318405
its a justified superiority complex though. Stay mad.

>>3318405
>bookfags

It's sad that this is even a necessary term. There's no such thing as a moviefag, I assume?

>>3318419
>justified

Hardly.

>>3318421
People who are obsessive about something = fag.

There is such a thing as moviefag.

>>3318212
thanks.

>>3318429

Way more people are obsessed with flicks than books, kid.

>>3318460
And why does that matter?

Fag is attached to denote that a person is obsessive about something; doesn't matter if the hobby is obscure or not.

>>3318467

Oh, sorry. I misread your post.

>>3315482
>the agony of your literary tastes going unappreciated
why would this bother anyone

can't you guys just read things

why are half the threads on this board only tangentially related to reading literature instead of actually being about the content within books

I've met two Irish people who have no idea who James Joyce was.

Both of them were under 26.

>>3318344

You should like a shitty friend. Not up front, but behind the scenes.

>>3318087

Books are fun adventures sometimes.

But seriously, what do you mean?

>>3317567

>cant have fun when using my entertainment medium

>>3316146

>like the author
more like her husband's last name you moron

>>3316215

I like you.

I'm convinced nobody I know reads because most of the books sections on Facebook are filled with shit like Palahniuk and other trash.

>>3318648
You're lucky. The book sections in my friends list are either empty or filled with shit like this.

>>3318648

raged emo beta fag cant get his shitty novella published by his community college

>#STOPLIKINGWHATIDONTLIKE

>>3318709

This isn't twitter. You can stop making an ass of yourself at any point.

>reading for a sense of bandwagon
Hi, entitled scum of the literature world. You make it really hard to discuss and actively participate in communities around the world. It gets so tiring to meet person after person who gets into it to expand their ego. Shit sucks.

>>3318709
I'm not trying to get published. I've never even written anything.

>>3318656
aw shit, that pic, everything that is wrong with the world...

>>3318737

>not liking skins

>>3318737
Mean Girls is a great movie.

>>3318737

I fapped to the idea of getting my braces locked with katy perry's.

>>3318656

>Lady Gaga
>The Notebook
>first three seasons of Gossip Girl

Do you even pop sensibility?

>>3315482
Your contempt for your mother soothes me.

>>3318741
>>3318752
>>3318770
Look at these cute, innocent 14 year old girls. What are you doing in a place like this, sweethearts?

>>3318836

fuck you I'm a landwhale

>>3318836

Ignoring popular culture for the sake of your own vanity hardly indicates maturity.

>>3318752
I don't understand how some people have managed to convince themselves that Mean Girls is good. It's a shitty teen "comedy." Another unoriginal and reductive depiction of High School life. There's the occasional witty turn from Tina Fey's dialogue that hits the mark, but she's working with such shitty source material and has no room to move.

>>3318846
The Tina Fey dialogue is the worst part of Mean Girls.

>>3318842
It has nothing to do with the popularity of those things. What I was drawing to attention to was that they're intended to appeal to a younger (and yes, less mature) audience. If you think they're actually worthy of praise then you probably have a case of arrested development. Stop trying to rationalize your shitty taste.

>>3318850
I suppose you think the story and the characters are the best part then, lol...

>>3318858
Anything is better than Tina Fey.

>>3318850
I did said "occasional" witty turn... as in, maybe 4 or 5 lines that elicit a chuckle. It's fucking lowest common denominator cinema, was my main point.

>>3318846
it's less about that and more about giving young women memetic expression that is typically unavailable to them in our culture

>>3318656
the book section there is actually above average. At least this person has read 5 books or more. So many people on Facebook either have nothing in the books section or just Harry Potter. Makes me sick that people think they can read only Harry Potter and consider their reading responsibility done for the rest of their lives. Just leave it at.

>>3318862
>giving young women memetic expression that is typically unavailable to them in our culture

you're fucking delusional

>>3318862
Could you explain what you mean by memetic expression. I'm interested.

>>3318866
no, just intimately familiar with what sort of humor is available to young women and what hits home as true to their life experiences. mean girls hits that spot for a lot of young women, that's why it's so popular.

>>3318851
>>3318842
I don't find that Skins, The Notebook or Mean Girls are that popular, and I'd more readily describe Lady Gaga as having a niche or cult following.

>>3318868
just the way that the jokes get repeated all the time. it's the same as memes on 4chan, just in real life with jokes from films like mean girls.

>>3318851

Lady Gaga holds interest not only as a songwriter but as a cultural icon, her juxtaposition of a queer, theatrical lens with a refined pop aesthetic is indicative of a change in societal narrative; she's interesting in that what she's doing is similar to Madonna's pioneering of a sexual iconoclasm thirty years ago, albeit with a modern voice and pretext that makes her work both appealing and incredibly fun to listen to. I don't see how appreciating pop for exactly what it is might be qualified as 'shitty' with regard to taste. That's just vacant thinking. That you would see other art or other artists working less in the public eye as more interesting is your own prerogative, but it certainly isn't a universal one.

>having a serious discussion about the merits of women and popular entertainment

I fucking hate you faggots so much.

>>3318874
>Lady Gaga holds interest not only as a songwriter but as a cultural icon

kill yourself

>>3318877
>>3318878

You don't have to shitpost to let us know you're angry, kids.

>>3318877
love you too anon

>>3318874
Lady Gaga only held my interest for as long as I was mishearing "Shyeah and Red One" as "Shrimp and Red Wine" at the start of "Just Dance". Other than that, it's pure fakery and artifice, but done in the most banal way.

>>3318874
>I don't see how appreciating pop for exactly what it is might be qualified as 'shitty' with regard to taste

A child appreciates Thomas the Tank Engine for exactly what it is. That doesn't make it high art.

Some people, like myself, still choose to believe in the idea that taste can be refined. It's hardly vacant of me to always want to be challenging myself as a consumer and appreciator of art. I guess I can accept the notion of guilty pleasures, but the truth of the matter is that these 'harmless pop stars' you people defend are the ONLY artists the majority of the population bother exploring.

>>3318885

>fakery and artifice

You might have a point there, but I'd argue that's not the crux of why she's interesting. The music, the image, the icon - that's the interest. What she represents in an information age.

I've never understood why so many on this board shrug immediately away from a beat and a melody.

>>3318887
>A child appreciates Thomas the Tank Engine for exactly what it is. That doesn't make it high art.
Well, not new Thomas the Tank Engine. You have to admire the early stuff though.

>>3318892

Autists literally do.

>>3318890

Please shut the fuck up and take your fag shit to >>>/reddit/.

>>3318887

I think you've misunderstood what music is - there's nothing inherently 'meaningful' about any grouping of sounds or words when divorced from your reaction to said. Pop plays a very unique and interesting role not only in an artistic context but a cultural one as well. What about pop at large is lacking this 'refined quality' you've decided to hold dear?

What rubric are you using to determine when someone has 'shit taste' or otherwise?

>>3318895

>way to get mad
>everything I don't like is from reddit

>>3318874
>modern voice and pretext
Lady Gaga spreads some terrible messages to her followers. The "born this way" mantra has been twisted into something monstrous. My idiot sister uses it to proudly defend her shitty behaviour. In high school I've heard people use it to rationalize their terrible academic performance and not make any effort to improve.

So I don't accept that Lady Gaga is as interesting on a cultural level as Madonna. And let's face it, Gaga is entirely derivative of Madonna anyway. She bring nothing new to the album.

>>3318890
It's a shitty beat and a shitty melody. And the image, icon are artifice, but it's dressed up in a way that frankly I feel takes the piss, whether it be out of people who like to go out and have fun or high fashion or whatever. Maybe that's the attraction.

>>3318895

/lit/ is actually the only site I browse aside from references. I don't know why you kids feel the need to rally against the popular with such anger. It's really very childish.

>>3315534

You sound like you were a really terrible child, I wish she would have beat you more. You sound like you deserved it.

>>3318896
A fucking rubric, come on?
Human society has come to accept some broad standards. Those who are willing to explore music beyond the iTunes charts are sure to naturally find some sense of what constitutes quality music. Or at least music that's interesting (which pop, usually the most derivative of genres, is not at all).

I suppose if I were to ask a musician or someone who cares about the art-form, they might lay it out like this:
Musicality
Musicianship
Composition
Innovation
Production
Performance

Something like that, I guess. Pop music tends to only tick the production box, and even that's not guaranteed. The last Gaga album was a fucking travesty.

>>3318902
>it's dressed up in a way that frankly I feel takes the piss, whether it be out of people who like to go out and have fun or high fashion or whatever

That's kind of the point.

>shitty beat and shitty melody

Come on, you're not trying.

>>3318898

That Goethe inspired mass suicide doesn't make Werther less than worthy of a read.

Gaga's doing Madonna in the twenty-first century. That's her shtick and why she's relevant. Madonna wasn't necessarily speaking to queer culture as much as she was impressing on pop an openness to sexuality

>>3318903

Don't give a shit about popular music one way or another but I won't have you faggots ruining my board by discussing this bullshit for its "merits".
I had enough of that to last me into my dotage from college.

>>>/tumblr/
>>>/reddit/
>>>/metafilter/
>>>/yourmom/

All places that would be glad to listen to your garbage.

>>3318916
>Come on, you're not trying.
With my opinions? Her stuff has about as good a beat and melody as one of those demo tracks you get off an old electric keyboard. It's practically muzak. But by all means, if you like it listen to it.

>>3318915

Your standards or the standards of any given musician you ask are not going to speak to any universal, or even broad, notion of what qualifies as interesting in music. Certain lenses might inform your listening in certain respects, but these are necessarily secondary to the experience of the music itself - something that is going to be unique to an individual. That certain aspects of popular music are, by definition, lowest-common-denominator doesn't mean that they're any less interesting artistically or sonically. The experience itself exists without the categories you assign to it.

>>3318919

What the fuck is metafilter?

This isn't a 'serious' board, and it's only tenuously about literature.

Get fucked, sister.

>>3318916
Not that guy, but they ARE shitty melodies and beats. Anyone with even a basic knowledge of composition can tell you this. Fucking start a thread on the ultimate guitar forum. Even those eggheads will be able to explain it to you.

Coming from a layman with no musical knowledge like myself, I can tell you her hooks are lazy and vapid. Every song feels like a carbon copy. It's derivative, radio-ready fluff.

>>3318929

>What the fuck is metafilter?

A place where they have sincere and earnest discussions about banal faggot shit like you seem to like on a regular basis.
Please go there and never return ameriqueer.

>>3318930

What makes a beat inherently shitty? I've been playing and writing music for fifteen years.

>her hooks are lazy and vapid.

I don't see any reason why this is in and of itself a bad thing if the music's enjoyed. Pop isn't about cleverness or profundity.

>Every song feels like a carbon copy. It's derivative, radio-ready fluff.

>it's pop music

>>3318928
Ok, well, I suppose if you want to maintain that music isn't a craft as well as an art. If you want to maintain that actual skill or innovation has no necessary merit, then your position is fine. I just can't accept that. On a very basic level, I think it's unfair.

I like what you say about "the experience," but I also believe that expanding your knowledge about any given art-form can only enhance the experience, surely. It comes back to the child watching Thomas the Tank Engine analogy.

Anyway, agree to disagree I guess.

>>3318934

It's not a place where things are assumed to be worthless for being 'banal faggot shit' based on fuckall?

I might dig it.

>people thinking lady gaga makes good music near me
>people thinking lady gaga is a cultural icon near me

>>3318935
>Pop isn't about cleverness or profundity.
Can be. Shock of the New and all that. It's not like the B52s or REM became popular for trying to replicate the Nashville Sound, or even standard pop music of their contemporaries.

>>3318935
Dude, have you listened to any music pre-2000?
Your smug little greentext retort is totally ignorant. Pop music isn't necessarily derivative, radio-ready fluff. After all, in order for Gaga's vacuous shit to be derivative there had to be someone to derive from. Pop music CAN be good. It HAS been good in the past. Popular music has even influenced avant-garde musicians occasionally (e.g. Hendrix and Miles Davis).

Also, being lazy and vapid and getting more money than everybody who is actually putting in effort IS bad. Surely you can see that? Lady Gaga isn't just casually "enjoyed," she's fucking worshiped. Which is a problem in my eyes. I won't defend that.

>>3318937

>actual skill or innovation has no necessary merit

Saying it has no inherent merit isn't the same thing as saying it's completely lacking merit.

That you and I find it interesting doesn't make it necessarily so. That something is lacking skill or innovation doesn't necessarily lessen the experience of the music.

>expanding your knowledge about any given art-form can only enhance the experience

Certainly. This doesn't mean it lessens the experience of 'lesser' art.

>Thomas the Tank Engine

A mode of thinking that would place Finnegans Wake above the aforementioned based on complexity or originality alone is exactly what I'm fighting against.

>>3318946

You're the neocon who keeps using that image. Stop it.

>>3318946
yuropoor 4chan is terrible

>>3318957
>Finnegans Wake
>not realising it's a piece of high lit based upon low culture music hall performance
You are a rebel without a clue.

>>3318948

Agreed. I should've said 'isn't necessarily about'

>>3318951

Derivative doesn't necessarily into lacking quality.

>>3318962
>neocon

[citation needed]

>>3318965

Bad comparison, I'll admit. I haven't read it.

>>3318964

I'm American. That much should be clear.

>>3318971

>americuck /lit/

>>3318957
Yes, well, you argue well for your position. I suppose it's much like Modernism versus Post-modernism, me being the former. I find the distinction between high and low culture to be a necessary one. I useful one. If it is entirely eclipsed by your kind of relative thinking I will have lost all hope for art, and I don't care that I'm being melodramatic.

>>3318975
*A useful one.

Obviously.

>>3318975

You're favoring an arbitrary distinction between 'high and low art' over the rawness, the reality, of an artistic experience. This is something I find damaging to art and appreciation of said. We don't have to agree, and I doubt we will.

>>3315550
>he justifies his non stem degree

>>3318983
It's not at all arbitrary. Obviously I defer to expert opinion within artforms I'm unable to invest time in. I don't claim to have all the answers or know all the critera. And, of course, there should always be a discourse regarding what constitutes high art. But to abolish the distinction altogether is to allow for a kind of artistic anarchy - no standards. Or worse still, the kind of model we now have in the recording industry becoming ubiquitous (a process already under way, if you ask me).

>>3319001

I'd argue that an elimination of false standards allows for an uninhibited freedom of expression - from 'high' to 'low' and everywhere between. Neglecting to appreciate things for what they are is what leads to a culture of hegemony, something innately limiting to expression. That's what I'm wary of.

This is not to say the experts need be ignored, or that any given critical model lacks interest - we just have to be careful not to totalize them.

>>3319001
Oh God, don't remind me... The record industry is a fucking wasteland when it comes to talent. The most promising artists working in that area are now producers. And that's really fucking sad. When did trying to make shitty musicians sound good through artificial means become our main goal. I swear, the rapture is coming. I can feel it.

>>3319006
Ok, when you phrase it that way, and I can accept it to an extent. I don't want a culture of hegemony either, now that I consider it. After all, someone needs to be making absolute shit for "high art" to even be recognized as such.

>>3319006
You should watch a documentary called 'Exit Through The Gift Shop' to see what happens when those "false" standards are eliminated.

>>3319013

>anything to do with Banksy

No thanks.

>>3319014
That's the point I was making.

>>3319014

>all art created by anyone below middle class is shit
>if modern poor people can appreciate it, it's shit
>all music made after 1880 is shit
>muh cultural hegemony of the modern rnb blaxploitation plebeian is personifying my internal screams against the modern ontology of cultural trash


>/lit/

Reading has always been an eclectic activity. Those who read do. Those who don't...watch Honey Boo Boo.

It has always been thus.

>>3319022

Don't knock it till you try it.

>>3319018

Fair play. Though perhaps Banksy needs to exist so that what he represents can be transgressed by other artists.

>>3319020

Banksy is shit. Sorry. That's my arbitrary opinion, I don't find him anything but surface-clever

>Think about getting into reading after the disgust to it, thanks in part due to the American education system, has faded
>Go to this board, see this thread
>Almost all of you are pretentious autists who hate anyone that doesn't like your niche little hobby

Nah, fuck that. I have better things to do than being yelled at by pretentious English majors that are going to be flipping burgers after graduation

>Mom gets me some books for christmas
>theyre all contemporary
>read them all, enjoy them quite a bit
>"what are you going to read next anon?"
>tell her ive been planning on reading some Nabavok, Pynchon & DFW
>"dont read that sexist shit"
>"why are you wasting your time"
>"didnt david foster wallace kill himself"
>"it glorifies and condones pedophelia"
>"why don't you ever read anything written by women?"

I don't think my mom has ever read anything written before 1980, and the only male author she likes is David Mitchell.

>>3319655
4/10
You had me until "flipping burgers"

>>3321224
>Nabavok

>>3319655
>after the disgust to it, thanks in part due to the American education system, has faded
try harder next time trollipop

>>3315482
I would, OP, but being a self-satisfied prat removes most of the joy I get from reading.

Who is the author in the pic?

>>3321375
Martin Heidegger

>Get invited by The Queen to go round for tea cause i'm such a cool dude
>Enter Buckingham Palace with my kindle with a million books on it (that i've read btw) safely stashed inside my inside pocket
>Sit down in the lounge whilst the maid pours a fresh pot of Earl Grey's finest tea
>King Charles starts talking to me about the British economy or some shit
>Tell him i'm not interested and ask him if he even reads
>'N-no anon'
>Ask him whether he believes new sincerity has fully transcended the irony of post-modernism in contemporary literature
>Doesn't have any response
>I sit there fuming because these privileged kids can't even engage in conversation with me about literature
>Queen walks in. I throw my tea all over their corgis as she does so
>Walk out with my head held high. Karate chop a couple of beefeaters who are trying to arrest me
>Sail up, up and away on my beautiful balloon
>Fucking plebs
>Come back to post on /lit/ about my day using an 8G wi-fi connection from the Moon

>what are you reading anon
>I don't really want to say, but there's no way out
>this can only end well
>...Plato
>Is that the name of the book or the author
>...the author
>I never heard of him. What's his last name?

And then I just started laughing, and crying on the inside.

>>3321393
4/10

would read if there was more balloon

>talk with friends in a train towards Budapest, where we shall celebrate new year
>one guy only knows to talk about movies
>he's being obnoxious, making everyone listen to his knowledge of Friday the 13th trivia
>another guy is silent
>he's had enough of this movie talk
>exclaims that movies and comic books are not an art form
>he doesn't watch them, he reads books instead
>ask him which books
>Stephen King

>>3318114
10/10

>sincerely,
girl
Nice touch

This is the only time anyone has ever talked to me about what I was reading.
>reading Post Office in class because I have 10 minutes until lecture starts
>older lady notices, housewife type, wrinkled.
>starts talking to me about Bukowski
>turns out Bukowski is her favorite author
>asks me if I've read Most Beautiful Woman in Town
>I have but I lie and say I've only parts of it
>she says "that's too bad, I couldn't put it down," and the conversation ends there

>>3321489
Nicely escaped.

>>3315482
So much self congratulation ITT.

story of my life bro. it's all g these ignorant ass niggas aren't aware of the likes of dostoevsky, faulkner, dumas, melville, milton, and lord byron. i dont even mention the philosopher's i study but when i do it's like <__<

>>3321508
i kno exactly wat ur talkin' bout
it's like my mum and especally english techer don kno what good literture is
Wen I mentioon reading good boks to dem, its lake...
>_>
<_<
LOL
I'M SUCH A NERD XDD

>>3315534
I like you. No, really, I do. Antinatalism brofist up in this bitch.

>>3315534
I don't think you need to love her just because she's your mother, but it's kind of fucked up to sell someone's shit because you're embarrassed... that's a little weird.

>>3321224
>Nabavok

My sides have flown their arcs.

>Mum asks what I'm reading
>"Never heard of it"
>It's Kitzo Hekotormos

>>3315506

That's just what plebs read so that others can see that they are holding books

>>3322887
Vokoban

>>3321462
Felix?

My mother referenced Hemingway the other day and I just about died of shock.

>>3323925
She had to read it in grade nine

Yes, OP is no unique and special. Everybody who isnt into the things he is into are all inferior, normal people.

>Mum is currently reading book on Victorian London
>Dad is reading As I Lay Dying
>Little sister is reading Murakami

Family is pretty well-read. My parents better than I and I expect my sister to be better than me when she reaches my age.

>>3315482

>OP only socializes with his mother

>>3325144
>>Little sister is reading Murakami

>Be 17
>Birthday coming up
>Mom asks what I want for my birthday
>Give her a list of books I'd like
>Birthday party with family
>Only got one book
>Teen Study Bible

>>3318874

>Lady Gaga holds interest not only as a songwriter but as a cultural icon

>OP's mom tries to be friendly to OP, and have a conversation

>OP, being the biggest faggot in history, thinks he's too cool to talk to his mom

>Comes to 4chan to act cool

Fuck you OP, your mom just wanted to talk to you, you worthless piece of shit

>>3318874
>Lady Gaga holds interest not only as a songwriter but as a cultural icon

Yeah, why we should care about Picasso, Kirchner or Mondrian when we have Lady Gaga. I mean, old white dead artists? Who cares! Lady gaga is a true cultural icon. Why should we read Kafka or Henry James anyway, we have her songwriting. She is so queer, I guess that the queerness of her appearance is a lot more profound than the stylistic queerness of Beckett or Juan Gelman. Yeah, I totally agree with you, she is a cultural icon who represents a "change in societal narrative". Silly me, worshiping Ludwig Kirchner and Franz Kafka.

>>3325856
Yes, why consider contemporary phenomena, when we can just lazily stew in the established and accepted canon of dead people.

>>3325856

The two aren't mutually exclusive...

>>3325889
If i kill gaga can we forget about her