/lit/ - Literature

>1 does anybody have recommendations on which book i should start with?
The Sailor Who Fell With Grace From the Sea or Confessions of a Mask. Though basically anything except the tetralogy would probably suffice.

>2 is intesive knowledge about japanese culture a necessity to understand mishimas point?
Not an intensive knowledge, no, but a basic understanding will surely do you no harm. Mishima's references to Japanese customs and culture are generally more explicated than some of his counterparts', which is handy for Western readers.

>3 are english translations of his books good or shouldi dare to buy a german version?
Personally I've found every English translation of his perfectly acceptable, even the TSWFFGWtS one, which sometimes catches some flack here on /lit/.

>>3185292
>Though basically anything except the tetralogy would probably suffice.
genuinely curious: why not start with Spring Snow?

>>3185292
thank you very much.

i heard about his last works not living up to his name.

luckily i am not a complete baka gajin, if that even is the way the word is correctly used.

that is fantastic to know.

>>3185308
bumping for interest

http://fuuka.warosu.org/lit/thread/S2971947

how about you quit with the teen/lit/ and read something relevant to the real world. quit camus and don't even start mishima. or if you must you might as well read ayn rand if you're going to get into self indulgent modern don quixotes.

>>3185274
death in midsummer and other stories.

short story collection with variety. a nice intro to the author's style and idealistic taste for the dramatic.

2. no. it's the universal message for all teens, young adults, and all other types of immature, self unaware peoples.

3. english translations are generally done by people who have translated a variety of popular jap greats. john nathan, meredith weatherby, edward seidensticker, etc etc. these names and a few others are pretty common the more english translations you read.

>>3185451
i was almost certain this kind of response was going to appear.

i appreciate your input, although it is kindly disregarded since you did not define anything as 'relevant to the world'.

tho' i would like to hear what in your opinion is relevant to our world.

>>3185527
but i actually found your link to be entertaining to say the least. nice find.

>>3185308
his tetralogy is pretty much the culmination of all the themes he had explored throughout his career prior to that. it really clicks better if you're already familiar with his work. it can also be a bit dryer than his earlier stuff, and occasionally goes off on tangents that are probably quite boring if you're not already a fan of mishima.

Is the homosexuality thematique dominant in his works?
I wouldn't read the confessions of a full-blown fag.

>>3185527
i think mishima had a kind of an irresistable urge for both the absurd and dramatic together. you can see it in every protag he ever wrote about. and their idealistic mixups in regards to violence and beauty are rather immature. you can see the extreme version of this in the way he offed himself. the guy thought himself the rare lone-wolf character without ever realizing that most young men go through such a phase. look at hesse's steppenwolf. at least haller in that story is torn in how to feel about it. the egoism in mishima's character's are just naive to me because they constantly fall into this (imo) solipsist nightmare. they never care. they are always impulsive all the while being forever exceedingly idealistic. it's the same obsession turned madness every time but with characters with little to no redeeming qualities. if any i guess it is that they suffer.

as far as relevancy to the real world i suggest don quixote. it's about a guy who is clueless in what is or isn't real. but his sidekick sancho knows quixote's sense of chivalry is well-intentioned at heart. in a world where knight errants were still long gone, quixote wants to sniff out evil-doers even if they are sometimes windmills.

>>3185557
I see, thanks for the insight. I think I'll give it a go nonetheless—themes are essentially themes, even if they've been predominant in an author's work (i.e. all I'll be missing is that they've come up a lot), and the dryness/tangential writing I think will be alright as well.

>>3185569
wow, thats a nice thing to say, thanks.

>>3185571
well, that was insightful. thank you for elaborating.
the thing i find most funny, is that i actually agree with most of your statements about mishima, i already felt that vibe surrounding him. but as i stated in the OP, i want to read mishima as a mean to find amy own synthesis.

and alot of times i do use authors as a way of identifying traits of myself which i do not wish to posses. if i had to put it in a way that feels much more harsh, i let myself project those unwanted desires unto the author or his work in order to grow past them.
i havent yet read don quixote, but i will soon.

provided you are >>3185451
why did you feel it to be necessary to instantly seem hostile?

>>3185557
much appreciated

>>3185597
mishima is to me as ayn rand is to /lit/.

don't get me started on this guy!

>>3185571
I think the fact that he actually followed his radical idealism right through to the very end somewhat separates him from most other young men who experience such a phase.

A lot of Mishima's appeal comes from the fact that he was actually _the real deal_. And he is actually legitimately a great artist, too - which certainly helps.

I will never trust kids when they offer me tea.

>>3185615
well alright, everyone has his own 'go berserk' button.

do you feel the same way about camus?

let me know if the following statement agered you in any way.
this might also be the right time to tell you that i think that bukowski is the greatest writer of all times

if yes, i think that i atleast somewhat understand your anger.

>>3185617
it seemed to me that he could go that far with his idealism because he still had it, yet he wasn't a kid anymore. he offed himself when he was 45. i think ...and it might be written somewhere that he wanted to preserve an idealistic younger image of himself rather than let himself grow old and "decay." that kind of idealism isn't great to me. i think he needed counseling...badly. and his idea of art being worth more than a man's life because it has more longevity is bizarre to me when the ultimate art imo is man's life itself. not the things man creates that always fall short of fully expressing it. it has high beauty too but i guess my priorities are different.

>>3185649

Don't forget he also cheated his way out of conscription to the Japanese military during the war, an episode he never learned to forgive himself for.
This combined with that idea of dying by the age of 40 (as he desired, but never achieved) probably also contributed to his desperation.

>>3185640
>i think that bukowski is the greatest writer of all times

oh god i wish i hadn't read that.

>>3185663
Made me laugh. It's the combination of the words and the picture. Perfect.

>>3185640
>i think that bukowski is the greatest writer of all times

>>3185663
yeah, im sorry i just had to.
i often get that when people are visiting me and they see the bukowski books on my shelves.

i normally reply that hes entertaining in some ways.

>>3185661
>>3185649
i for one wanted to explore the idea of what it means to some people to live without fullfilling their wish for a higher purpose, what ever their abstract idea of that missing piece of their lifes is.

you might think of me as an angsty teenager, but im rather satisfied.
but having reread my posts, i do understand that

>>3185683
Don't worry so much about how other people perceive you. And just because Mishima, Camus and Bukowski tend to attract the admiration of edgy teenagers, that doesn't necessarily diminish their merit as artists. Though I would personally say that Bukowski's not really on the same level as the other two.

>>3185683
you know i'm a big haruki murakami fan. a lot of /lit/ has issues with him because he's kind of a one-trick pony with his narration besides the last two books he put out (which the last was less than par for him imo too).

his characters usually have to learn to live with unresolved problems rather than finding some solution. and his characters are generally unpretentious to me, and his plots have this detective raymond chandler-esque feel to them that keep you hooked. also boners.

>>3185696
i wasnt worried, i just somehow felt that this perception would stop any real discussion

i also wouldnt put bukowski all that far up, but some of his poems are rather well done. apart from those he was to me nothing more than a way to improve my english.

>>3185705
now that you already brought boners up...
im not all that active on /lit/, normally i try to stay uninvolved and gather suggestions on what to read (and /lit/ has supplied some fine books). is there actually homophobia around these parts?

not that id care all that much about what a persons favourite kind of genitals is, but i never understood how anybody could care about other peoples sexuality enough to disapprove it.
tho' i have gathered many possible reasons

>>3185734
homophobia only from your average internet jerk. i only mentioned boners in reference to murakami because he usually has a few sex scenes. people really dig sex scenes, man. i don't recall murakami writing a gay sex scene though.

>>3185744
he wrote a lesbian fondling scene in IQ84, that is, if we are discussing the same murakami.

>>3185909
Also, I can't remember for sure, but I think Sputnik Sweetheart has one

>>3185909
oh yeah! with the female lead character and her policewoman friend, right? i forget their names. good catch.

>>3185909

Yeah and that abruptly odd part in Norweigian Wood where Reiko is telling Toru about the time her teenage piano student semi-molested her.