/lit/ - Literature

He's painting with a pretty wide brush and making some big claims with the book that don't hold up to close scrutiny, but it's an interesting read

GG&S is one of the best books I've ever read, and Atlas Shrugged is one of the worst, is that means anything to you.

>>3181201
The books main points are all obviously correct when understood.

White people have more cargo than Pacific islanders because their geography allowed them to more easily domesticate plants.
/book

It's worth reading.
You can tell he's a much better biologist than historian though, he doesn't really account for the complexity of human history.
His point is probably generally correct though.

Its used at The Uof Oregon, where my daughter goes. Yes I am old. Deal with it.

Throughout history there have been several events that fly in the face of his argument, like Hellenic dominance over the east due to the hoplite phalanx, but insofar as we are talking about Mesoamerica, New Guinea, and New Zeeland's Maori wars his thesis is pretty spot on. Collapse is far scarier and reasonable, but not a better book.

>>3181213

Which points?

>>3181291
Not him, but the fact that due to a lack of mass agriculture and staple crops like wheat barley rice etc, as well as a severe lack of domestic animals, tribal peoples in africa, mesoamerica, and polynesia were unable to compete with europeans and asians at the time of the age of exploration. Also, the aforementioned benefits created larger societies on larger scales that created writing, allowed a greater scale of disease resistance, and the development of warfare tech.

It does allow for the collapse of China and India during the age of exploration, I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Great_Powers does that way better.

>>3181198
>mostly into modern historical non-fiction and economics books (Austrian and Chicago schools are all he reads to my knowledge), so I don't completely discredit his opinion but I don't take take it as fact, mostly because he likes Ayn Rand.

>austrian ideology
>ayn rand

>Yes I am old. Don't hit on me silly children~

I've see a couple of Jared Diamond documentaries (including the one based on this book) and I liked them. My cultural anthropology professor recommended this book but when I read outside of school it's mostly fiction so I never read it.

It's basically entirely lies. So yes you might as well throw it out.

>>3181298
are you a fucking idiot? china/south east asia is where rice was domesticated. They DIDN'T domesticate animals, not that no animals which could be domesticated existed.

the indians in america had plenty of all that shit, and they still did not invent written language or use the wheel or domesticate any animals.

The idea that we are "disease resistant" is also pure nonsense.

It is a leftist attempt of ignoring race, genetics, and the differences between the races through a environmentally deterministic narrative.
To push this narrative he engages in rampant misrepresentation of history and reality.

>>3181357
What northern American animals were there to domesticate? Central America had llamas but you can only do so much with those.

>>3181360
well you had the buffallo, and they could have not hunted wild horses to extinction too, or mammoths or perhaps other species as well.

Repeat after me:
EVOLUTION STOPS AT NECK.
RACE IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT.
DIVERSITY IS STRENGHT.

How can the guy seriously present arguments for human engineered, decisive selective breeding of flora and fauna; and at the same time insist that humans are equally smart, everywhere, continents and oceans apart?
What keeps Man's evolution at bay?

>>3181424
It's not about people having the cognitive capacity to domesticate, it's about whether suitable plants are available in that region

His argument is valid over the "broad scope of human history", i.e. over the last 15,000 years or so. He freely admits that it doesn't apply at the level of hundreds of years (as in the failure of China to dominate).
Summary:
Eurasia: lots of easily domesticable plants and large animals; easy east-west transmission of crops and large domestic animals
Africa: few domesticable plants and large animals; difficult transmission of crops and domestic animals due to north-south axis and extreme changes in climate north-south
Australia: 80% desert, no domesticable large animals, few domesticable plants
North and South America: most domesticable large animals killed off in first wave of colonization; only large animal domesticated is llama/alpaca; some very valuable domesticable plants, though Eurasia had a head start by several thousand years; difficult north-south transmission of crops and domestic animals
Racists hate the book because it gives non-racist reasons for why Eurasia became dominant.

>>3181431
it doesnt change the fact that these non-whites are radically less intelligent than whites or asians.

>>3181449
>Racists hate the book because it gives non-racist reasons for why Eurasia became dominant.

It still pretty much just asserts that niggers are inferior.

Useful metals were only easily obtainable in Europe and China,
/thread
This guy had the right idea but he is a biology guy attempting to write about history, of course he fucked up.

>>3181449
his argument is not valid at all, why do you continue to go to such extents to deny human differences and diversity?

>>3181468
more nonsense.

>>3181468
I'd rather a biologist write about prehistory than a historian

insightful, illuminating, wakes up your brain.
yes it is.
very much so.
no you shouldn't.

>>3181299
He only read parts of Rothbard's work, and he essentially associated it with Objectivism through the similar beliefs that individuals the only factors in a truly capitalist system. I don't think he knew about Rothbard's assertions that morals are completely unnecessary to lead a successful life, which is a stark contrast to Rand's view that the "objectivist" ideals and morals would be the only way to succeed in her ideal society of social Darwinist capitalism.

At least he hasn't fallen under the foolish presumptions of "Anarcho-Capitalism". At least the government outlined by Rand is possible. Rothbard's idea would either lead to a new tyranny to enforce private property (as was present in Somalia), or a system of worker owned cooperatives as a result of the absence of protection of private ownership over the means of production (as was present in Catalonia during the mid-1930s, collapsing only due to Fascist invasion and not the system).

>>3181424
What keeps Nigger's evolution at bay? Intelligence is extremely useful for survival whenever you live. It`s not like some dreadful African monster eats well-developed brains. Then again, intelligence on the scale of difference between men depends more from phenotype than genotype.
>>3181451
Proofs please. Then again, traditional "race" division is made mostly (or only) by appearance. Not unlike ancient belief that whales are closer to fish than to, say, men.

>>3181551
This. Considering the point Jared Diamond is trying to make, having a Biologist make the argument instead of an historian with no knowledge of human biology makes a much stronger argument. Too bad there are a lot of /lit/ posters also browsing /pol/ and mindlessly believing the reposted stormfag attempts to justify their social awkwardness masked as "racial realism" with cherry-picked statistics, bullshit stories, and news articles about black men raping white women presented like it's a common occurrence. If you're easily swayed by your emotional disposition to hate anyone who doesn't fap to animu, isn't fat, is unathletic, doesn't waste their time playing video games, or whatever else most of 4chan that inhibits their life success, then seeing bullshit that makes them feel superior is going to be taken by them as fact.

>>3181567

Spoken like a good little sheep.

>>3181719
african brains are 5 cubic inches smaller than whites.

Is that a phenotype difference?

>>3181802
haha oh wow you are the ones using cherry picked statistics designed to deceive and trick.

Anyone who even a minor experience among blacks/south americans/etc know they are significantly less intelligent on average.

>>3181802

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Its basically all wrong.

Take it back to the bookstore and pick up Why Nations Fail. That book pretty much decimates Diamond's points and outlines the best reason for why some nations succeed and others fail.

Some valid points, others not so much. There is a 3-part documentary, by the same name, that is worth watching, basically the author traveling about explaining the themes of the book. There is one moment in particular that is revealing in the series, shows what type of man he is.

Basically my strife with it, is his attempt of leveling the races, pushing equality, though subtlety. He fails to account for what makes some races able to do what they do, and instead blames it on all geography.

poor diamond, attacked from the left, the right, the far right, far left and from historians and biologists themselves

everyone likes this book except anyone who has a letters or science bachelor's degree

>>3181836
>That book pretty much decimates Diamond's points
If only historical debate were more like Yu Gi Oh.

>>3181357
>>It's basically entirely lies. So yes you might as well throw it out.

This is a lie

>>are you a fucking idiot?
No

>>china/south east asia is where rice was domesticated. They DIDN'T domesticate animals, not that no animals which could be domesticated existed.

Chinese doesnt have water buffalo, horses, dogs, chickens, pigs, etc? I never said that China was covered in the book, read what I wrote again.

>>the indians in america had plenty of all that shit, and they still did not invent written language or use the wheel or domesticate any animals.

Mayans didnt invent language? Mesoamerican Indians had animals besides the Llama? Did you read the book? Are YOU an idiot?

>>The idea that we are "disease resistant" is also pure nonsense.

You are spouting pure shit. Are you saying that high population areas in close contact with domesticated animals does not encourage disease resistance? Blatant trolling or disgusting ignorance of history.

>>It is a leftist attempt of ignoring race, genetics, and the differences between the races through a environmentally deterministic narrative.

Ah, the stupid side of /pol/

>>To push this narrative he engages in rampant misrepresentation of history and reality.

Why dont you just say because he is a jew.

>>3181846
>He fails to account for what makes some races able to do what they do, and instead blames it on all geography.

...but it mostly is geography. Are you trying to imply that some races are innately smarter than others?

>>3181959
inb4 yes and that guy's race is near the top

>>3181959
I would like to see some of the racially superior geniuses on /pol/ try and survive in the New Guinea jungle with the racially inferior highlanders.

>>3181357
Somebody didn't read the book...

>>3181964
inb4 his name is William Graham Sumner

>>3181970
Indeed. I would also like to see /pol/'s racially superior geniuses sit through a lecture on population genetics.

>>3181846
>He fails to account for what makes some races able to do what they do, and instead blames it on all geography.

>>3181959
remember goyim, race is nothing! Excuse us while we jews only promote our own and actively encourage miscegenation and other degeneracy among the other races.

>>3181970
are you trying to suggest that whites couldn't survive in new guinea? That they couldn't flourish there?

>>3181290
>like Hellenic dominance over the east due to the hoplite phalanx
phalangite phalanx

>Kike writes a book about how white people are only successful due resources.
>goes on to write about how he thinks Jews are inherently superior to all other groups of people.

lol

>>3181826
>being capitalist
>being a sheep

Pick two.

>3182530
>>>/pol/

Git out.

/pol/ why must you ruin every potentially interesting discussion with your faggotry?

>>3182589
Seriously, is there anything worse than some politically opinionated asshole bringing politics into an unrelated topic?

>>3181567

>implying capitalism isn't inherently broken

>>3182054
Touche, although Xenophon and the Greeks in the Persian Wars were def hoplites.

>>3183125
Crony capitalism with socialist tendencies is a disease.

Capitalism itself has done fairly well since the Medici.

>>3183248

It's done well by the rich, certainly.

>>3183248

crony capitalism is a false flag term made up to make the 'pure' capitalists feel better. "Oh no, dear, I'm not like those OTHER economies...."

>>3181198
Haven't read it yet myself, but my History professor last semester thought it was fantastic, as does Dan Carlin (if you like history and don't know of Dan Carlin, look up his podcast, btw).

>>3183261
Goldman Sachs running every country in Europe and huge public bailouts to private corporations based primarily on campaign funding is quite different than an unrestricted free market. I firmly believe if companies like Delta/AIG/CITI hadnt been bailed out, other stronger brands like Southwestern and JetBlue would have become as big as they ever were. Instead, we have stagnation, brought about by crony capitalism

>ctrl + f "liberal bible"
>0 of 0

It's the liberal bible.

>Is it worth reading?
Meh, depends on your interest level.

>Is it actually insightful
Don't remember any insight I gained from it.

>and well written?
Can't remember.

>>3181449
Racists hate the book because it gives non-racist reasons for why Eurasia became dominant.

/thread

>>3181282
i want to pump your cute old man ass with my dandy white sperm and have your daughter watch

>>3183654

>It's the liberal bible.
>and well written?
>Can't remember.

Another reactionary moron who opts for political buzzwords instead of informed opinion.

Just fucking stop.

It's weird to me that ornithologists always crank out amazing theories. What is it about studying birds that makes a scholar into a genius? The only other person I know to set up science experiments in history was when Chomsky and Herman cracked the media code with Manufacturing Consent. Both made people's understanding of their subjects at the same time more accessible and more comprehensive.

I do think Diamond understands very little about human nature. Collapse seemed to me like a huge waste of everyone's time because he had to figure out what a society collapsing means which is, not exactly the same metric as a rich-as-fuck dude with a laptop.

>Incans were able to domesticate Gineua pigs
>LOL NO, ITS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE OF GEOGRAPHY FOR AFRICANS TO HAVE CIVILIZATION. THEY TOTALLY COULDN'T DOMESTICATE THOSE ZEBRAS, LIONS, ELEPHANTS, ETC

This movie, along with Michael Moores shit. Was shovelled down our throat at High School.

It's amazing how the subject 'Social science' pushed one fucking large agenda.

>>3184112

He is not the only old dood on here, watch or we will gang up and hit you with our walking frames.

What I don't understand is why everyone's so hung up on race. If you're a racist, why not stop wasting your time arguing with people and instead try to establish a racist state? If you're not a racist, abandon trying to convert stormfags, and just work at establishing a non-racial state.

>>3181201
He sites tons of works and scientific studies.
Your claim is pretty empty

>>3184128


>why not stop wasting your time arguing with people and instead try to establish a racist state?

Because Mr Ollie, you need to numbers to get any movement rolling. And to get numbers you need to hit the street or net and start debating and preaching.

Cultural and Racial Egalitarianism is coming to an end, so it doesn't really matter. You can't really have a system that says everyone is equal and is also a special snowflake, yet hold some 'unprivileged' groups in higher regard than the true productive class. Well, you can have this system, but the system won't last long. Even Sweden and the United Kingdom are suffering from this. And it hasn't been long since they diverged down this path.

>>3182022
No idiot. He's implying that the ability of New Guineans to do what they do in spite of all the disadvantages of their geographic area, and their propensity for quickly adapting provides evidence for them being just as intelligent as caucasians despite the environmental disadvantages.

Only people who have actually read the book should post in this thread.

>>3184136
Go ahead, get that movement going. Get those outdoor demonstrations going.

see what happens

>>3184136
Surely there are enough racists with enough money to buy an island somewhere?

>>3184125
its also incredible how the liberals try to pretend the shit that the negros did, and the shit that whites did, in terms of development and civilization and sailing and so on, has any possible relationship.

A hollowed out log canoe? "Extremely well developed river trading civilization"

>>3184128
Did you miss how the egalitarian leftists declared war on those states and destroyed them, then proceded to force them to accept mass immigration and cultural marxism?

Good luck trying to ignore the defining characteristic of a person.

>>3183248
I'm really not trying to flame here, but the whole globalist thing you're doing sounds a lot like the old anti-Semitism. Can you account for that?

The first half of book, changing the name to the history book of the seed, makes sales to double.