/lit/ - Literature

No.

No.

Homework, sage.

Read Hobbes' Leviathan, bingo bango.

the nature of man is selfishness. interpret this as you will

>>3042405
Your second no kind of weakens the first no, but thanks for the input.

>>3042412
There is nothing of homework to this... Thanks for the recommendation.

Yes.

Yes.

>>3042402

define "evil"

Yes.
No.

>>3042440

See:

>>3042433

Man is the only creature who is evil, because he is the only one with morals. Without morals, you can be neither good nor bad.
That being said, humans are neither good nor evil, they simply have unlimited potential for both.

>>3042458
>Man is the only creature who is evil

what do you call a lion tearing apart an antelope?

>>3042464
Not him, but that's instinct. Lion doesn't think it's wrong or right, he is not being kind nor evil.

>>3042464
I call it eating.

>>3042468
since when humans aren't instinctive and animalistic?

how would you classify a chaotic individual struggling to control his instinctive temper, when suddenly someone pisses him off so terribly that he snaps internally and kills?

still evil

>>3042486
>still evil
No.

>>3042493
>No.

compelling reasoning.

>>3042493

evil is a christian construct, relating to sin and disobeying God's made up rules, it's also what the weak-slaves call the strong-and-beautiful


good vs evil is a product of ignorant Christians/jews

good vs bad is the only real distinction we need to make,

good is what is desirable/strong/healthy/beautiful/contributes to human flourishing

bad is unhealthy/weak/submissive/ugly/contributes to human oppression

Hobbes and Mandeville both thought Man, without imposed morality (coercion) is predisposed to violence, tribalism and 'warre' and that self-interest is the only reason we have any form of society. Hobbes also thought all laughter was an evil and we should try our best not to laugh since it's always either at someone else's expense or to make ourselves feel more powerful.

Hume called Hobbes's idea of the 'State of Warre' a 'Philosophical Myth', and said even without any form of state we have small family groups at least that are good to one another, and that this empathy we expereince between small family groups slowly extends to friends, then those of the same race etc.

Also there are a shitload of Christian thinking that say Man is inherently evil (since the Fall) and should spend their lives giving penitence for the Original Sin.

It all depends on what you mean by evil

>>3042498
It's not evil. His actions are founded from something other than moral reasoning. He doesn't know it's bad and is choosing to do it anyway, for the sake of hurting another person.
In your example, he's "snapping" the actions in that moment are beyond reason.
Yes, it's bad, but it's not evil.

The nature of man is to argue about its own nature ad infinitium.

Everyone who uses one kind of "facade theory" or other to rationalize his being a dick to people in spite of better knowledge, should either read up on Frans DeWaal or go fuck himself with a cactus.

"Sympathy is the strongest force in human nature."
- Charles Darwin, Descent of Man

"Consciousness by nature is pure."
- The Buddha

It is my view that man is inherently benevolent, loving, cooperative, and charitable.

These initial systems get distorted and overwritten by irresponsible mechanicality; people fall asleep into their lives. Ignorance for me is the beginning of all evil actions in man. Knowledge of self is wisdom that refines and purifies the consciousness of man.

The grief that so many beings who are so close to the reality of their inherent loving nature are destroying themselves and each other is so gargantuan that it's almost too much to bear,

I feel many people lapse into cynicism and coldness in their assertion that "we are all just bad" instead of genuinely grieving over the truth that we are using the Key to Eden to slit our wrists.

>>3042581
>I feel many people lapse into cynicism and coldness in their assertion that "we are all just bad" instead of genuinely grieving over the truth that we are using the Key to Eden to slit our wrists.

I'm literally bleeding over the edginess of your words, comrade. How close am I to the despair of truth?

>>3042581
10/10

will read to grandchildren

Lord of the Flies seems to indicate that there is a base evil in man. But yes it is kinda "entry-level"

>>3042594
>man is inherently benevolent, loving, cooperative, and charitable
>edgy
lolwut

>>3042693
You can read Lord of the Flies as anarchistic. Cruelty was simply incidental and comparatively minor until they decided to elect a leader, then shit went downhill fast.

>>3042581

>>3042581
this seems very unbuddhalike, are you sure you're not taking that quote out of context?

>>3042581
>man is inherently benevolent, loving

What about children who more commonly maim and injure animals than care for them?

What about Somalia, that has no government and has descended into rape and warfare?

People desire power above all else, and will stop at nothing to achieve it

>>3043020
Well, not errbody wants power. Just some humans.

Gotta remember everyone's different. Psychopathic traits (which is the personality trait of caring only about yourself and lacking any empathy) exist in a surprisingly large amount of people though... This can never be good. They tend to get what they want as well. Hence all the conflict that often occurs. It wouldn't be surprising if some of these types of people sparked it off.

Nevertheless, there are people with high levels of empathy that exist in this world too. Never give up hope.

>>3043020
"And nine, nine rings were gifted to the race of Men, who above all else desire power"

Just as long as we're quoting here.

>>3044655
or if you prefer "Nine for mortal men doomed to die"

>>3043018

>that doesn't seem like something the buddha would say at all. trust me, i've watched a few alan watts lectures and have been telling people that i practice zen for a few months now

>>3043020
>animals

>>3043020
>What about Somalia, that has no government and has descended into rape and warfare?

Somalia has existed without government for centures. They have a polycentric law system called xeer. The autonomic part of Somalialand, where they still practice xeer, has not descended into rape and warfare it has even seen economic growth.

Now the other parts of somalia ruled by the Islamic Courts and the so called Coalition government is in constant turmoil.

>>3043020

Somalia isn't actually that bad - it's Sudan and Congo where the real horrors are taking place.

Somalis have never been much for government and they're used to making do.

There's even a futures exchange where capital is invested in pirate raids - it provides a lot of liquidity and credit for local farmers and fishermen (who are also a lot better off than they've ever been because the massive factory ships that used to illegally fish the waters are now terrified of the pirates).

Somalia is no paradise, but it's not the war-torn rape-hole that people seem to think it is.

The nature of man is neither "good" nor "evil." These are moral terms dictated by the culture of the day.

Have people stopped reading Nietzsche? Read the fucking Genealogy of Morals. It's a great place to start with Nietzsche, it answers this question well, and is exceptionally accessible. Motive means and oppurtunity shiggy diggy

>>3044756
>>3044731
>>3043020
You talk as if the real evil was not collonization. You can't talk about misery in Africa without Europe.

>>3044731
>>3044756
Well, fuck me, I'm reading about this and it's the first time where I can see how libertarianism could actually be implanted without perfect humans.

Well.

Discounting external military invasion.

Nevermind.

>>3044767
ya so evil to bring civilization to the savages

>>3045746
Heh.

6/10

>> Ignorance for me is the beginning of all evil actions in man

OK. Why are there creation myths of evil being born of knowledge then? Adam & Eve & Prometheus to name a couple.

Man is a blank slate. Some do good, some do bad. Some write on shitty image boards. That is all.

>>3045766

With knowledge comes power to overturn the status quo. With great power, comes great responsibility. With great responsibility comes Uncle Ben's. And with Uncle Ben's comes great tasting rice in 3 minutes.

>>3045766
Not him, but those are myths related to pain.

Adam and Eve didn't suffer until they had knowledge. The knowledge made them realized something that was already there, their naked bodies for example and feel ashamed of it.

In the same line, Prometheus stole the fire of the gods because he was ignorant to the gods powers, that is, he ignored that the gods were above the mortals and thus had to suffer for it.

No joke, "with great power come great responsibility" sums it up pretty well indeed. But knowledge is not the evil thing in itself, it is desire, greed, curiosity, etc, in both myths, and others as well like Pandora's box. Knowledge of God or of one true nature or awareness and alertness in eastern thought are considered to be good things.

No.

Man is neither inherently good or bad, but is rather a product of his environment.

"And is evil just something you are,
Or something you do?"

>>3045769
>Man is a blank slate.

Henry Kissinger

>>3042505
Look at this faggot objectivist.

>>3042402
Didn't Alex end up good in the end, realizing that his violence was immature?

Depends who you believe, Hobbes would say yes, Rousseau would say no. etc etc

>>3046521

Depends on which edition of the novel you read.

>>3042402
Read Immanuel Kant's Religion Within the Bounds of Bare Reason.

Kant says man is inherently evil.

Therefore man is inherently evil.

All hail Immanuel Kant!

the nature of man is weak. 85% of the world is asleep with no idea of what it is to be awake. the nature of man is to be controlled. the majority are machines playing at men.

bump

>>3046878
>wake up sheeple!

>>3046878
the dialectic of industrial mass man's a priori against nature suffers from the positivist grammar of dogmatism

>>3042505
Stop reading to Nietzsche's butthurt-discourse and start thinking by yourself.

The left and right lobe is at war in some of us. Some of that some of us project that war unto others, unaware of the denial that your brain is already fractured and will never become whole (except in the future when we evolve into aliens which will be totally awesome, for them).

"Nature of man" does not exist.

>>3042693
Uhm no, the movie shows a bunch of kids in a situation they where not psyschological evolved to handle. What took over them where neurosis, hysteria and other pathological shit.(we could also call it ignoranse)

>>3044763
>Have people stopped reading Nietzsche?
Why the fuck does everyone act like Nietzche has the answer to everything?