/lit/ - Literature

Notes from Underground

I fucked every single teenage girl I ever worked with

Number9dream Mitchell yes it's the one

Nice trips. If she's still a teenager you should get her Feed by M.T. Anderson. Maybe Franny and Zoey if she's older.

How about Thus Spoke Zarathustra, by Friedrich Nietzsche?

>>2965777
L'Etranger?

>Considers Nietzsche intellectual and deep philosophy
>She's been conditioned by society not to think
Jesus Christ OP, how much more edgy can you get

Mein Kampf

>>2965846
>>2965846
>>2965846
>>2965846
>>2965846

This.

If anything, OP, just get her some decent, classic novel that's not commonly read in her age. Why not something by Dostoevsky, or maybe some Philip K. Dick? They're not so hard to read, but could entice her a bit than the usual novels.

If you give her fucking Nietzsche, she may end up so dark and edgy that you could throw cheese at her and she'd slice it.

If you are gonna give her some philsophy, start with the basics. Pic related. He's the "father of Western philosphy" for a good reason.

Sorry, you're thinking that books are actually of value.

>>2965846
But people are conditioned not to think.
Ignorance is considered good, but they don't call it ignorance.

Depends on what she would prefer to think about.
If she's more into science get her Carl Sagan's "Cosmos".
Don't get her any philosophy books though, you have to already like to think to enjoy philosophy, get her some thoughtful literature instead. I recommend Dostoevsky's "The Brother's Karamazov" but if you think that might be too long for her get her Oscar Wilde's "The Picture of Dorian Gray".

Sophie's World. You can't force people to do whatever you want by buying them certain books, and that includes getting them to "think" (whatever you mean by that). In this case less force is best force.

"Today I Wrote Nothing", by Daniil Kharms

the 1930's laffs will blow her natural mind

>she has been conditioned into society to not think

reaction_image.jpg

>>2965777
How old is your sister?

Fight...Club? I doubt that's really a book a girl would enjoy, but it does punch society in the balls. Perhaps Grapes of Wrath or 1884 or Brave New World or something like that.

>>2965846
>thinking Nietzsche is neither intellectual nor deep material

Confirmed for not having read Nietzsche or at least not in a more thorough manner than the edgy kids you hate.

>>2965777
How about you make your sister start thinking with an hour of intelligent conversation over dinner each night, you lazy bum?

>>2966396
>talking in a family dinner

>>2965846
Have you even read Nietzsche?

This.

>>2966390
So if 1984 was by Geroge Orwell, and 1985 by Huge Orson Welles, is 1884 by HG Wells?

Maybe some earlier Nietzsche, the kind that get you thinking with low risks of becoming an edgy kid (think about Genealogy of Morals).
You could also try older great essayist to whom Nietzsche owe something (Pascal, Rousseau maybe) or more simply the plain old presocratics (Democrite, Heraclite, Parmenide, Anaxagore and such)

>>2966436
Zarathustra is an earlier work than GoM. You are right in it being an easier to get work though.

>>2965777

How old is she?

Ian McEwan - The Cement Garden

Gilbert Adair - The Holy Innocents


These will make her open-minded about things that matter

I read Nietzsche in this order:
Birth of Tragedy
Genealogy of Morals
Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Ecce Homo
Gay Science
Twilight of the Idols
The Wanderer and his Shadow
Philosophy in the Tragic Age of the Greeks
Untimely meditations
Human All too Human
Daybreak
Beyond good and evil
Antichrist
(Selected letters to friends (Gast etc.), selected nachlass - also called 'Will to Power')
Along with dozens of scholarly works full of poor/partisan interpretations of Nietzsche - the liberal democratic Nietzsche, the continental all-too-Derriddean Nietzsche, the pragmatist, the logical positivist, the irrational anti-enlightenment anti-philosopher, Nietzche the protowittgenstein, ad inf. all of which demonstrate the protean difficulty of his thought.

Writing this now I realise I haven't read much Nietzsche in years - that my Nietzsche phase peaked and died out 2-3 years ago.

>>2966508
Also, the last work of Nietzsche's I read was the Untimely meditation: 'Use and Abuse of History for life.'

Just have sex with her. After that you will have the emotional leverage to be able to manipulate her to do many things. Provided that you keep the relationship 'intense', and surfeit her with texts, you should be able to cram her with as much culture as possible.

>>2965860
>she may end up so dark and edgy
That's a fallacy perpetuated by those who have either never read Nietzsche or those that have not read it properly (ie those going to into his works because they think it's all "dark and edgy")

Still, I agree that Nietzsche is not the way to go first off the bat. To get Nietzsche IMO you need to know what he's against first.

I'd suggest some crap like Chomsky, as that is somewhat easier to read compared to some other philosophical stuffs.

Try: Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media

May seem heavy, but it's interesting and "thought provoking". Check it for yourself first and see if it will do.

>>2966398
>not elaborating on the differences between Epicureanism and the Cyrenaic school over desert for the better understanding of your 16 year old sister

I sincerely hope you guys don't do this.

>>2966533
> compared to some other philosophical stuffs.
Alright, it's not necessarily philosophy, but it will make her think.

Gotta reaffirm plato republic, but the middle books (divided line, forms etc) might just piss her off if she's not receptive.

It's also quite elitist which integrated people would probably prickle up against.

Girls usually like bell jar or virgin suicides - which both seemed to me like 'catcher in the rye for girls'. As in, they're excellent starting points in affirming generally discordant tendencies in young people.

Then move her up to genuine thought experiments.

Just give her babby's first Camus, or maybe The Little Prince.
They're so accessible it's not funny.
If you want her to "get" Nietzsche, first get her an introduction to Kierkegaard, then give her Zarathustra and Beyond Good And Evil.
Instruct her to first read Zarathustra, then read Beyond Good And Evil, then read Zarathustra again because she didn't get it the first time around.
If she can't into thinking by herself by then, she never will.

Try this instead of Thus. Make sure it's the Kaufman translation. By the way, I envy your intelligent sister. My brother and sister are retards.

"Above average" intelligence is not enough to "get" Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

shit, I need to find something like this for my sis too.
she's ridiculously self hating, and she's absolutely sure she's average at best, but I think she has potential, if she stops being so hard on herself. I gave her the catcher in the rye to read at one point, however she really disliked holden (mindblowing, I know.)
anyway, is nietzsche really a good choice to read as an introduction to philosophy?

Why don't you try not to be a superior hipster bore of a brother and buy her something that she might actually be interested in.

Rather than trying to persuade her you're some sort of enlightened being who can save her from being "brainwashed", just buy her a gift that she might actually appreciate and be thankful for.

What books does she like? Research them, find somethign similar, find something that's more intellectually challenging perhaps, but nobody wants Nietzche for their birthday, frankly, unless they already have already professed a strong interest in reading similar books.

>>2966653
My little sister is like that.
She says she's bad but doesn't even *try*.
Then when she tries she succeeds.
I blame her shit parents.

It's all about mentality.
I read a search report recently who said the difference between the successful kids and others was that the successful *failed* too BUT kept trying, they enjoyed the challenge.

>>2966653
>is nietzsche really a good choice to read as an introduction to philosophy?
Not in my opinion. But it depends on which work you are referring to though.

It's best to read those who came before N. in order to fully realise exactly what he was up against when he wrote what he wrote.

Start with the Republic - follow through from there.

Better yet, just read one of those compendium-like histories of phil. like Will Durant's The Story of Philosophy.

>>2965777
This?

>>2966642
Bahahaha. I love /lit/.

>>2966642
He's right, actually.

You need to know the backstory first. Apart from a few of Nietzsche's works that can be read "stand alone" (sort of), the rest need to be read in context (that of western philosophy in general as well as in the context of Nietzsche's own ideas development) or else it'll read like a whole lot of nonsense - well, more than it may otherwise.

>>2966724
The only straight out treatise a la general philosophers that Nietzy wrote was on the Genealogy of Morals, right? Nietzsche really blurred that line between "writer" and "philosopher"; it's not all straight polemic but rather aphorisms that do not always have the clearest of meanings (hence the importance as you say of understanding his context).

I think this is the problem many have with Nietzsche: baring one or two works you need to read his works as a whole to get a clear picture, whereas with many other philosophers you can pick and choose from amongst their repertoire with ease.

>>2966741
>baring one or two works you need to read his works as a whole to get a clear picture, whereas with many other philosophers you can pick and choose from amongst their repertoire with ease.

Pretty much.
Which is why both the try hard D&E teens and those that mistake Nietzsche for being and promoting "D&E" are so laughable.
It's an image that is totally wrong but it doesn't look like that's going to change unless some better understand of N is undertaken.
But since nobody actually reads his shit that's never going to happen.

OP, don't start with Nietzsche.
Perhaps hand her On the Genealogy of Morals if you are, in fact, a Christian, but I personally cannot recommend that as a starter. It is quite short, though.

Give her some thoughtful fiction and the perhaps something like that Story of Philosophy someone recommended above.

Sophie's World's an option. Not saying it's for everyone, but is it is a run down of most of western philosophy in a story format.

>>2966433

No Fight Club is about searching for what it means to be a man. Women either don't understand what the fuck is going on an emotional level or simply think it's juvenile.

Hey OP, why don't you just let your sister live a happy life instead of giving her a case of the nihilism?

>>2966786

Because the unexamined life is not worth living.

>>2966794
;D ;D

>>2966794
That's just what we say to feel better than others. I was a lot happier before I got into this thinking stuff.

>>2966786
>Nietzsche
>Nihilism

ohmysides.jpg

>>2966769
Agree.

Girls have no need for fight club.

Notes from the underground or kafka's trial?

>>2966805

Happiness is transient. The goal of life is the good life.

>>2966714
good book

>>2966807
Nietzsche of course wasn't a proponent of nihilism, but he did break of most of the old values. Then, when he has destroyed everything he tries to offer his own alternative. But as far as I'm concerned, he fails. Most people gobble up his negative philosophy (in the sense that he dismantles a lot) but his positive philosophy doesn't really catch on. The Übermensch and the revaluation of values (in so far as he even succeeded) ring as empty as any other ideal.

So while he didn't willingly subscribe to nihilism, he does tend to cause it. And I belief that he was at heart a nihilist himself and that he didn't believe in his own answers to the crisis. I also think that was partly responsible for him going insane before creating what was to be his magnum opus.

>>2966856

I read Nietzsche as merely calling for men to take responsibility for their values and be great in themselves. He doesn't put forth any positive ideals because he wants to leave that up to his reader.

>>2966808

I think they have a need for the catharsis Fight Club provides, but they won't get it from Fight Club. Women today have a bunch of emotional problems in their lives and take on way too much responsibility because they think that other people's expectations and demands are what defines you as a woman. Not living up to these things will mean you're a failure as a woman. Men have that problem to a far lesser extent, which is largely evident in everything from academia to business.

Men have overall agreed that being cool is what is most important in life and the key aspect of being cool is not recognizing other people's authority over what goal your are to set in your lives and what you think about yourself. But at the same time we recognize the faux cool of people who have simply adopted a style of cool from someone else. Tyler for example is presented as faux coolness by the end of the book and as an improper way of dealing with society's demands and pressure because Tyler himself is still just the ying to society's yang so to say. He seeks to be at the bottom because everyone tells you to seek to be at the top.

>>2966878
>tyler
>faux cool

Are you sure?

If you're going to get something like Zarathustra at least get her The Ego and Its Own. "In style Stirner's work offers the greatest possible contrast to the puerile, padded phraseology of Nietzsche's 'Zarathustra' and its false imagery." Then when she never reads it you can shrug your shoulders and say that at least you tried.

If you get something by Sagan I might recommend The Demon-Haunted World instead, but I haven't read Cosmos. DHW is more about kindling an interest in science, from my estimation of it. But why get a book? An Edward Cullen dildo is an investment into a lifelong love of reading.

>>2966891

yes. He is simply a contrarian. He reacts to what happens around him and the narrators life to become the opposite.

How about some Hermann Hesse? Not Siddhartha or Steppenwolf though, start off with Demian. That's a book that demands analysis, is pretty readable, and makes a solid introduction to the rest of his work.

I highly recommend this guy. He represents both ethic and aesthetic nihilism and teaches to be skeptical about everything. Warning: for some individuals may seem too sad (or even "apocalyptic)

>>2966878
>Men have overall agreed that being cool is what is most important in life

Have they? Because "cool" is just another mode of power and many men are vocal about their disdain for power/their own egos. Not the majority, mind you, but enough to mention.

"cool" is just a pose, nothing more. A way of getting over a complex or a few.

Robert Anton Wilson - Prometheus Rising will get her thinking

>>2965777
>She is of above average intelligence, however, she has been conditioned into society to not think.

she's average like you, me and everyone on this board, deal with it

nice trips, tho

>>2967120
>like everyone on this board
dream on bud

>>2967120

By definition we must have people of above average intelligence on this board and equally many below average.

Thanks guys, this has helped. For those of you who wrote something to the effect, "Why are you trying to make her think?" I would just like to say, you are a fucking idiot. She needs to think, everyone needs to think. I don't want her to stumble through her entire existence without even experiencing lasting pleasure. I feel a moral obligation to convince her that there is more to life than BMW's and designer cloths. Also, she is a senior in college, but her major was not thought provoking.

>>2967139
Some hobbies tend to attract the more intelligent people stronger.

>>2967145
>attract the more intelligent people stronger.

So I'm guessing that you're in the "below average" section of the curve then?

>>2967130
What?!?
I thought you were fucking dead.

Goddammit....

>>2967142
>I don't want her to stumble through her entire existence without even experiencing lasting pleasure.
>experiencing lasting pleasure.

Welp you know what to do then OP, someone mentioned it above/

>>2966856
>
>No Fight Club is about searching for what it means to be a man. Women either don't understand what the fuck is going on an emotional level or simply think it's juvenile.
An interesting position.
I shall note it down for future contemplation.

>>2966856
An interesting position.
I shall note it down for future contemplation.

Wasn't it Heidegger who said that anybody who wants to understand Nietzsche should start by studying the Greeks for ten years?

>>2965860
>The Republic
>Relevant

You guys are such tryhards. She isn't going to care for a word of that shit and you know it.

Start her out with some accessible fiction with mild philosophic themes. Maybe give the power of myth of something. But for fucks sake, do not just throw the fucking brick at her with no kind of progression

>>2967221
>the power of myth
More like the power to dry vaginas of any girl who reads it.

>recommending boring old joseph campbell to a young girl brimming with potential.

No.

>>2967226
Spirituality is more accessible to girls because it is more emotional.

Fucking deal with it. Get the illustrated edition

>>2967226
what would you recommend then, sheesh.

harry potter

>>2967232
>Spirituality is more accessible to girls because it is more emotional.
and you say this out of experience or...?

>>2967221
>The Republic
>irrelevant

lel nigga u on sum troll shit

>>2967240
Anecdotal evidence, every female I know is pretty receptive to the idea of spirituality. It has more of the typically feminine themes of love kindness etc socially associated with the gender.

Might as well exploit every conceivable angle, right?

>>2967248
Relevant to people thinking about a very specific subsection of political theory you god damn tool. Now quit peddling your shit and realize no average girl is going to spend a minute on the guy without proper lead-in

>>2967259
eh, I suppose it varies, considering every female I know kind of cringes at your usual spiritual concepts.

>>2966931
this. demian is what i would give her. readable, as everything by hesse imo (love is prose in german, dont know if the translations are any good), and makes you reflect on your own personaliy.

going with nietzsche or ancient greek stuff seems to be overkill...

>>2967310
awww shit hesse.

Strange news from another star is the one you need to give her. Nice, short stories that are easy to read

>>2967259
>Relevant to people thinking about a very specific subsection of political theory you god damn tool.
It really isn't. Confirmed for wikischolar.

How about atlas shrugged, will get you thinking over your place in society. And it appeals to peope who dont think too much.

>>2967315
confirmed for platoshipper

>>2967326
Confirmed for ship-of-fooler

Want her to think? Get her a mathematics textbook.

>>2967332
confirmed for foolish confirmed ship

>>2967333

pics of your sisters feet, please.

>>2965777
Nietzsche is Ayn Rand garbage

>>2967338
Firm fool falling for fishing ship con.

Murakami.

>>2967364
>flea-bagged flagellant fondled by falconer

>>2967350
You have no clue what you're talking about.

>>2965777
Crime and Punishmen

>>2967342
It's true though. All the best philosophers also know math.

>>2967383
You mean like how Lacan is really good and Russell is not?

>>2967369
Why'd you have to bring that up? All that therapy is for nought...

>>2967384
>Russell
>not good
Yeah ok.

>>2967372
There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist.
Ayn Rand

Do not let yourself be deceived: great intellects are sceptical. Zarathustra is a sceptic. The strength, the freedom which proceed from intellectual power, from a superabundance of intellectual power, manifest themselves as scepticism.
Nietzsche

===

You seek escape from pain.
Rand
In Buddha’s teaching egoism is a duty. The “one thing needful,” the question “how can you be delivered from suffering,”
Nietzsche

We seek the achievement of happiness.
We have discovered that happiness; we know the way; we got our knowledge of it from thousands of years in the labyrinth
Rand

You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.
Rand
Life itself appears to me as an instinct for growth, for survival, for the accumulation of forces, for power: whenever the will to power fails there is disaster.
Nietzsche

>>2967407
You, who have lost the concept of the difference, you who claim that fear and joy are incentives of equal power—and secretly add that fear is the more “practical”—you do not wish to live, and only fear of death still holds you to the existence you have damned.
Rand

It is a painful and tragic spectacle that rises before me: I have drawn back the curtain from the rottenness of man. This word, in my mouth, is at least free from one suspicion: that it involves a moral accusation against humanity. It is used—and I wish to emphasize the fact again—without any moral significance: and this is so far true that the rottenness I speak of is most apparent to me precisely in those quarters where there has been most aspiration, hitherto, toward “virtue” and “godliness.” As you probably surmise, I understand rottenness in the sense of décadence: my argument is that all the values on which mankind now fixes its highest aspirations are décadence-values.
Nietzsche

The search for KNOWLEDGE is something you either have or you don't
you can't force anything on anyone regarding this manner, or else you will seem like some pretentious up-tight arrogant cunt.
Don't throw pearls to the pigs, what makes you think you aren't conditioned or you have atainned freedom you flamboyant faggot?
Why don't you go to some starbucks and read your Nietzsche to show how independent from society you are, god you are worse than /mu/ hipsters, at least they kepp their shit contained unless you provoke me

>>2967413
wat

>>2967428
nothing, just OP having a bad case of "too bad I can't give myself a blowjob, I get a hard-on just by thinking on how other people are sheeps while I sit all day farting on my books"

>>2967407
>>2967408

Quotes from Nietzsche can only be understood in context.

>>2967440
sure you're not referring to yourself?