/lit/ - Literature

I feel the same about Kafka, a lot of people read Kafka and think of his style as Claustrophobic and absurd, but people forget the comedic element. (I mean, when Gregor transforms into a bug he doesn't think "holy shit I'm a bug", he worries that he won't be able to go to work).

>>2879275
That not funny, though. If you think that is funny, you misread the mood of the writing.

>>2879277
No, I agree with that guy about Kafka. And the OP about Ulysses.

>that fucking passage about people named after trees

>>2879277

http://www.smallbytes.net/~bobkat/kafka.html

>>2879275
Have you ever laughed while reading a Kafka novel? Did you guffaw heartily when Gregor worried about being late for work after he woke as a bug? Of course you fucking didn't.

There is a good point to be made that humor is sometimes the only way to deal with life. I haven't read Ulysses yet, but I think that certainly applies to reading Kafka.

>>2879282

No, I've never laughed at a book, and I've read several comedy books. You don't need to laugh at something to find it funny.

Absurdity is an element of humour.

>>2879275
absurd and comedic go hand in hand
i feel the metamorphosis' almost overlapping line of the comedic and tragic makes one want to weep more than laugh

>>2879282
The Trial made me laugh occasionally.

>>2879284
>I've never laughed at a book, and I've read several comedy books
Are you dead inside or something?

/lit/ compliments Ulysses on its humour most times it's mentioned. Buck is already taking the piss out of the church in the second paragraph sure.
>introibo ad altare dei

>>2879288

I don't know, it's just never happened. I think TV shows like Peep Show, The Armando Iannucci Show, Arrested Development etc. are funny but I never laugh at them

Do you ever laugh?

>>2879282
>>2879288
>I have no human emotions and can only understand things like humour through outward actions such as laughter
Confirmed for Big Bang Theory fanatic.

>>2879296
Oh. So maybe you didn't laugh, but Gregor's shenanigans in The Metamorphosis still tickled your funny boner, yes? I don't buy it. The whole story is absurd, sure, and the absurdity of it shields the reader from its darkness to a certain extent. But it's not remotely what could be called 'humorous'.

>>2879300
>your funny boner
Good God. I swear that was not intentional. I hope you all know what I was trying to write.

>>2879306
We can certainly see what your subconscious was trying to write

>>2879275
Yeah I do understand the similarity you see there, but we are talking about absolutely different styles of humour.
Kafka's is a very black form of comedy, wherein the humour is accompanied by a mood of despair and claustrophobia that most people would initially feel threatened by rather than be inclined to laugh at.
But Joyce, on the other hand, is overtly hilarious. I challenge anyone to resist laughing when reading the passage about Mulligan selflessly volunteering himself as inseminator of the women of Dublin, for instance.
In short, I understand how the humour of Kafka could go over a lot of reader's heads; but Joyce, whose style of humour is often more accessible than Kafka's (if not his style of prose), is not popularly regarded as a humour writer.

>>2879281
Yeah, DFW said it, so it must be true. Just look at the way that buffoon uses 'sub-archetypal', as if that made any sense. At no point does he actually argue that Kafka is funny, he just implies that he is. He ends by saying "Das ist komisch", but this points towards a central problem here: Since DFW seems so hung up on Kafka's etymological Taschenspielertricks, let's not forget that funny comes from fun, which is certainly not the emotion expressed by the morose 'I-see-what-you-did-there-Kafka' smirk that some might interpret as a reaction to humour. It's not a particularly sound strategy to back up your claim that an artist known for evoking soul-crushing depression is actually funny by citing a guy who agreed with you but then again also killed himself. "Komisch", by the way, not only means comical, but also weird, which makes it an expression that describes amongst other things a certain kind of humour, but certainly nothing 'funny' (that would be 'lustig', which relates to Lust).

Buck Mulligan is a prig.

>>2879310
thing is though, Kafka did think his writing was overtly hilarious. I think you have to live he did to find it funny as he did though, it's a very specific kind of humour - it's relief from the absurdity of life and bureaucracy.

This is by far one of the best threads I have seen on lit as yet (tough I haven't been here very long)

I have to agree that even when there is humor in Kafka it doesn't have the lightheartedness of something funny. You can find comical moments but they are always accompanied by the feeling of oppresion and paranoia. That reminds me of another poignant aspect of Kafka related with the paranoia: no character seems to be characterizable as merely good or bad, there certainly are mindless enactors of the law but they are not evil as such.

Back in theme, the only text of Kafka that I found completely deprived of humor (at least as I remember it) is the famous letter to his father

>>2879362
Is Taschenspielertricks a real word? I'm saying that in a positive way.

Anyway, I still agree with the premise and I don't think DFW was implying Kafka is funny, certainly not in the "American" style, not a guffaw that makes you feel better about yourself. It might be pertinent to quote Victor Klemperer on aufziehen, "... I tease him, I make a fool of him, I walk all over him. Bergson's definition of comedy as the process whereby something living is turned into something inanimate is here reinforced by common usage." I think that's the laugh you get in Kafka, a laugh of recognition in being made into an object. It's certainly very depressing, and not entirely accessible to people who aren't depressed, but I still agree with it.

This is even more true of Beckett. One of the funniest writers I've read.

People hear that Kafka used to laugh his ass off at his stories and they feel like they are missing something when they don't see any humour in his work. Some people convince themselves they see it too and then go on to ask everybody else "How the hell can you not get it? It's so funny!". But of course it's not. I could write some awful, crass thing with no humour in it at all, but because of my life and views etc and the fact that I am marginally disturbed, I am likely to laugh my ass off at entirely innapropriate things. I guess Kafka was the same.

tl;dr just because someone laughs at something doesn't mean it can be labelled as humour.

>>2879452
>Some people convince themselves they see it too and then go on to ask everybody else "How the hell can you not get it? It's so funny!".
Kafka had such a unique sense of humour and nobody else can share it becausw it's not the same as mine!

idk if anyone could really read ulysses and miss the humor
like every other passage is a joke
whole chapters are fucking huge jokes
if you miss that you probably should read ya or something to get ur reading skills up.

>>2879310
Challenge accepted, post it motherfucker.

>>2879825
You should get your writing skills up

>>2879847
i'm about to get my dick up and stick it in ya moms, friend.

>>2879855

>>2879868
i shant judge u my friend because there but for the grace of god og i... but you' re a retard bitch. real talk
peace

>>2879441
Yeah, it's a pretty cool word. I feel a little bit like I'm cheating because German is my native language so I have been showing it off (also in the thread were I talked about Lacan although I know nothing about Lacan). Then again, I spend most of the time here arguing with people in their native language which isn't mine, so whatever. I basically concede that the absurd element we are talking about can be called humourous and I tend to go overboard with my hatred on /lit/ because I work in a stuffy room with little oxygen so I come here and type-shout at people... However I would like to point out that although I am very interested in a citation for Kafka's amusement at his own work, one could also quote Nietzsche: “The author must keep his mouth shut when his work starts to speak.”

>>2879246
I was chuckling quite often when reading that book.
It was pretty funny.
It's just not a "humor" novel.
It's a novel that is occasionally humorous.

"Alas," said the mouse, "the whole world is growing smaller every day. At the beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad when I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner stands the trap that I must run into."

"You only need to change your direction," said the cat, and ate it up.

-Kafka

i lol'ed

>>2879281
Sorry, didn't see someone had already posted the DFW article. I think it's pretty solid.

>>2880181
>occasionally

nigga. Like someone above said, there's like a joke per paragraph.

I did actually find The Metamorphosis funny.

Also,

>Implying you don't know that Kafka read his stories to others in a humorous tone

>>2879275
This is exactly what I thought when I first read Kafka. The funniest and scariest thing about his work for me is how the characters don't react to their horrifying situations.
The Trial has this too: K. just seems to take everything in stride. I actually got frustrated at him when he didn't seem to grasp the gravity of his situation, but then I realized that was precisely Kafka's point.

>>2879275
>>2880366

I find Kafka equal parts hilarious and unnerving.

>>2879282
I laughed at The Trial when Josef goes to the court artist and he continues to pull out copies of the same shitty painting calling it a companion piece.

>>2880246
That is pretty funny. Thanks for that

I haven't read Ulysses but I find Kafka hilarious. But then, most of the things I find funny aren't jokes at all.

I have Ulysses sitting next to me, The reason I got it is because people say it's a classic and a must read; Why should I care?

>>2880765
You clearly care enough to have bought it.

>>2880767
Curiosity. I have a long backlog and want to know if I should give it a read or wait a while.

>>2879246

We have /lit's/ funnies list?

>>2880772
You're not going to like it going in with that attitude.

Best to stick to other things.