/lit/ - Literature

go eastern!

The best way to solve an existential crisis is to stop having existential crises.

I hope that helps, I'm here all week if you need further guidance.

>>2835940
You should write a book.

Walt Whitman

But if you can't into homoeroticism then you're on your own

>>2835942
But I believe that all ideas are inherently made incorrect through the process of writing them down.

>>2835949
>> He just wrote that down

what now faggot

>>2835951
Embrace the imperfections of your life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHwLVKAVhUE

I didn't.

I enjoy looking at life condescendingly. It surprisingly puts my problems into a lower place, lets me analyze them differently, and puts me in the position to be rational about everything/said problem.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.

>solve
>philosophy
yeah good luck with that

cheap wine, cheap women and meditation.

There's nothing to get over.

You accept it and incorporate whatever realizations occur to you move on.

Usually turning 21 helps

>>2835930
I listen to a lot of comedy. I masturbate for five hours at the start of every day while intermittently crying.

It's a successful life.

Suicide is the only way to solve it, if you just get over it, it was never an existential crisis. Sorry.

>>2836007

>tfw desperately trying to escape reality while awake

>>2836011
Oh god, that hit me hard. I just started trying to lucid dream for escapism and have perfectly fucked it up every time.

That feel.

>ITT No one knows the definition of existenialism

>>2836014

We are not alone on the webs brethren. We share the same sad meaninglessness.

READ NIETZSCHE. That's how you solve your fucking "existential crisis."

>>2836020

Speaking of Nietzsche, I am finally getting around to him. I ordered Beyond Good & Evil.

Thoughts?

>>2836023
Uhh I don't know what thoughts you want me to say? BGE is a good book, but I recommend reading Zarathustra soon after to get the full force of a life affirming philosophy. My recommendation with Nietzsche is just read as much of him directly as possible. He's incredibly important to understand contemporary continental philosophy as well.

>reading Zarathustra first

>>2836030

BUT NIETZSCHE IS BAD HE IS NAZI

>>2836018
>existenialism

>>2835930
Every time I get all angsty and doubty I strip away a layer of pretension. It's therapeutic. Throw away a box of useless stuff. Cut off your hair. End a lukewarm friendship that was just dragging on without reason. After a while, you'll get down to the bare minimum. And it will be s tremendous relief.

Minimalism in all things takes care of a lot of worries and anxiety.

>>2835930
Go all Wittgenstein and realise there are no philosophical problems, merely errors in thought. If you've got questions of that nature you're asking the wrong questions.

by growing up

/thread

>>2837272
>defining oneself according to some arbitrary concept of maturity that really doesn't mean more than "effectively participating in society according to the wishes of the status quo"

>>2837272
Seriously this. I thought it was the end of the world, and then within months I was happier and realised it was just adolescence.

>>2837278
I'm afraid what you just wrote is complete shit, my friend.

Growing up/maturing is a natural psychological event. There's nothing arbitrary or socially constructed about it - it's part of the natural human psychology life-cycle. At some point in the future your brain will be developed enough to allow you to carry your own responsibility confidently on your shoulders. You and your desires won't feel overwhelmed or undermined by the indifference of the world, you'll simply get on with it as a man.

>>2837292
You mean your rebellion enabling hormones retreated and you were once again chemically more inclined to conform. Your tendency to do one thing or the other doesn't refute the philosophical problems in question though. It just makes it seem less important to you.

There are people who embody a certain attitude all their lives, which perhaps indeed may be limited to puberty in most. But if that attitude sticks around with age, it becomes more sensible as well. Some mature past their stage of inquiry. Some mature with it.

>>2837265
there is no a priori knowledge so choosing the right axioms is already a choice of philosophy.

>>2837305
You seem to be philosophically confused, dude. Existential problems don't have any essential connection to conformism. They're about what kind of person you are, what you are capable of being, what meaning your life has and where its purpose/value comes from. Whether or not you happen to be conforming, whether consciously or not, to some social or economic type has little to do with this.

>>2837298
>>2837272

lol at this guy.

#delusions general

I got a job, house and family to be responsible for. Now I'm too busy to worry about that crap.
But here: http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-with-an-Existential-Crisis

>>2837318
you just transferred your responsibility. the biggest crimes are done by people who "just do their jerb and try to feed da family"

>>2837298
>you'll simply get on with it as a man

Yeah, don't listen to this guy. I read Nietzsche and Kierkegaard when I was too young to understand them, so they just made it worse. Try reading Nausea, that should make it bad enough to force you to make it better but I'm not a psychologist or shit.

>>2837316
astute and persuasive retort there, bro.

sorry to interrupt your hard-on for outdated philosophy with scientific fact

Existential crises are for guys who'd rather wallow in their own existential self-pity than actually do something with their life.

AKA, this entire board.

>>2837326
>just

>>2837343
Sounds about right.

So?

>>2837343
>you will never break the chrysalis at the extreme limit of experience to become the perfect man at the height of agony/ecstasy

enjoy mere being

The crisis stands in the fact that you're confused as fuck as you've just discovered that reality is a mindfuck of a paradox, right? Infinity, entropy, life, death, humanity, language, mathematics, consciousness. What is the nature of those concepts? We cannot even begin to grasp.

The crisis is "solved" by first accepting that reality is what it is (or rather 'what it seems it is', from our perspective). You accept that you are forced to play this game, which has certain rules in place. You play the game.

Things not to do
>end the game (by killing yourself)
>buy a roadmap (by picking up religion/philosophy for comfort or guidance)

Things to do
>live with authenticity (existentialism)
>master the thing that shapes reality (language, knowledge)
>get money
>get bitches

>>2837416
>authenticity

no such thing

>>2835930
i watch a lot of GitS

There are 4 options as I see it:

1. Existentialism - create your own meaning and live by your own values.

2. Absurdism - continually grapple with the idea of living a meaningless existence (and derive whatever meaning you can from this process of confrontation).

3. Nihilism - I actually don't know what a Nihilist does in practice or if it's even possible.

4. Go back to start - ignore the question or make a leap of faith into religion, materialism, nationalism, whatever.

I personally went with #2. Good luck op.

>>2837440

Sure, but I figured OP needed something for a foundation. Otherwise he'd just jump straight into zen buddism

>>2837305
>You mean your rebellion enabling hormones retreated and you were once again chemically more inclined to conform.

You sound a lot like that faggot from Big Bang Theory, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm just a mirror, don't hit me.

>>2837416
>The crisis stands in the fact that you're confused as fuck as you've just discovered that reality is a mindfuck of a paradox, right? Infinity, entropy, life, death, humanity, language, mathematics, consciousness. What is the nature of those concepts? We cannot even begin to grasp.

>>2837416
>The crisis stands in the fact that you're confused as fuck as you've just discovered that reality is a mindfuck of a paradox, right? Infinity, entropy, life, death, humanity, language, mathematics, consciousness. What is the nature of those concepts? We cannot even begin to grasp.

Reading

I took deep breaths

>>2836011
Accepting reality will bring you peace and joy, and the self control necessary to change your situation with both persistence and patience.

>>2837278
>defining oneself according to some arbitrary concept of maturity that really doesn't mean more than "effectively participating in society according to the wishes of the status quo"

edgy teenager itt. a mature person is not something you become, nor is it something forced on you, but something you decide to become for yourself in order to become your own person. maturity is to take responsibility for yourself and the things around you, it is not about succumbing to social demands. the social demands come into play only after you become mature: realizing you need a job to pay rent, cleaning up after your own messes, looking out for other people. the problem of conformity is something that you can only find after realizing what you need to do in order to support yourself, but maturity is only that leap to deciding not to let anyone else take care of you. don't ascribe to it something you think you hate so that you can postpone it indefinitely and become a manchild like all the other channers. grow up, and don't be dragged there kicking and screaming.

>>2837454
What about Buddhism, and its idea of confronting reality as it is, in the raw state, and reaching a point of loving every beautiful moment, even while feeling compassionate toward others and wanting to help them escape their own suffering?

(I guess it's bro-tier nihilism in a way...)

>>2837510

>>2836014
>Oh god, that hit me hard. I just started trying to lucid dream for escapism and have perfectly fucked it up every time.

Lucid dreams are cool. You know, people tend to say that Lucid dreams are all about becoming conscious, but I think Lucid dreams are about awakening the unconscious mind more so than your conscious one. When you're not in a Lucid dream the dream works sort of like reality in that you are conciousness experiencing a world - and you have all the anxieties and limitations that go with it - but when you're lucid dreaming you have absolute control of everything, you are want you want to be, the world is what you want to be, and suddenly everything comes to resemble your unmitigated desire.
When I was younger I could lucid dream easily. My lucid dreams always happened when my dreams were turning against me, at that point I would want to control what was going on and I did so seamslessly without that intermediary point that comes these days - "oh, I'm in a dream." These days when I lucid dreams I always have to have a reasoning with myself that leads to the realization of my dream, and then why my doubts are vanished and I'm aware that I'm dreaming, I'm instantly where I want to be doing what I want to do. It's all about desire. Try not masturbating or having sex for a while.

>>2837748
>buddhism
>nihilism
why do every westerners make the same assumption? oh right its because they dont know anything about buddhism

>>2837782
>why do every westerners make the same assumption?

Probably because Nietzsche said Buddhism was nihilistic. I believe his reasoning was that Buddhism is nihilist because of how much importance it ascribes to suffering and being free of it.

>>2837782
I've actually read a lot of books on it. "Kind of" and "in a way" is intended to imply that it's "kind of" like it "in a way," not that it's a perfect match. I was attempting to fit it into one of the things that the person to whom I was replying had listed.

That in itself was probably pretty silly. But so is misreading what I said to somehow insinuate that I think Buddhism is just Eastern nihilism.

Enjoy life for what it is. Work hard, value your friends and family and don't think too much about things you can't change anyway. Sticking your head in the sand? Maybe. Life's too valuable!

You don't solve an existential crisis you live with it.

>>2837790
The word "suffering" isn't a great translation. I think a better translation would be "longing for things to be different than they are."

The Buddha had an example of being hit with an arrow, and then with a second arrow in the same spot. The first arrow hurts. The second hurts dozens of times more. The first arrow is anything bad life throws at you. The second is making yourself miserable by wishing the first wasn't there or denying that it is, rather than accepting that it is and deciding what you can do about it. "Suffering," in the sense of Buddhism, is that second arrow.

>>2837806
sounds more like sticking sand in your head. what is scum like you doing on /lit/ anyway. shouldnt u play ps3 wit ur bros?

>>2837762
I can't take lucid/vivid dreaming very seriously.

I had a lucid dream last night about running a 10K, followed by fighting a bunch of evil suited bodygaurds on a cruise ship, while navigating a storm.
Once they were taken care of, my waifu said I was a good soldier then hugged me tight until I woke up.

I remember taking longer strides, to catch up on the track. I remember climbing on the outside of the ships railing to try to sneak back into the brawl, and this one judo type throw I kept using.
I remember the feel of her white tshirt on my neck and chin.

If I took dreaming as a serious insight into my conscience, instead of anything more than nonsensical brain fluff, I would be a much more depressed person.

>>2837812
Here, you can read Nietzsche's statements on Buddhism yourself, his view is more nuanced than I implied:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19322/19322-h/19322-h.htm
Parts 20-23.

>>2837825
Will do. Thanks for the link.

>>2837762
There are better ways to get a balance between unconscious and conscious. People should stop reading about lucid dream on the internet and actually pick up some Carl Jung to read.

>>2837818
Just trying to help the OP out, guy. No need to be angry. Besides, I only own an Xbox!

>>2837833
I'm kind of tempted to after reading up on the Myers-Briggs Test and finding out that I am an INFP type. It's made me think more about what kind of role I live.

For the a while I've been feeling like I haven't be living a very genuine/authentic life, like I've been pretty much faking my way through it because to do other wise would cause problems for other and just make me feel bad. But after reading Self-Reliance by Ralph Waldo Emerson, little by little i'm starting to act and be a little more honest and true. I'm still trying to get over my hang-ups of always asking permission to do or say things and apologizing however reading up on issues like these and ways to over come it has definitely been helping me out.

Can anyone suggest any other readings to check out regarding this? About apologizing/asking permission less and really taking life for all its worth? I'd greatly appreciate your input.

I'd say you're one of the lucky ones if you happen to befall an existential crises. Sure, it can be mentally and emotionally turbulent, but that's the way it should be. The experience of pain and suffering, even if only on a higher, almost/mostly imaginary plane is unavoidable. Sure, your heart becomes jaded, your tongue becomes sarcastic and skeptic, your ears become untrustworthy, BUT! your eyes are now open.

These open eyes place you among the lucky ones. Think about all that you will no longer take for granted, all that you will approach with the inquisitive spirit, all that you will do with the aim of intuition and reason.

Let the ground below you give way. Until you fall you will not learn to fly.

>>2837899
First thing you need to know is that the Myers-Briggs test is just a corruption of what Jung said and online tests are even more far out. Stop trusting those things, dog...

Read Man and his Symbols.

Avoid self-help books and don't try to look for a method on how to solve your problems through books. Suspect any book that creates such method. That is because they are made for a common denominator, for the "normal", for the average and that is a thing that doesn't really exist. You won't find a set of tips or rules for you to follow.

You need to do some analysis, talk to someone straight. Books will misguide you, we are not in complete control of ourselves, which makes us guillible or skeptical for certain things that can derail us from a way of happiness. You'll compensate one thing for the other, overlapping concepts and becoming more confuse.

Go see someone. I think a Lacanian approach might be good, coming from what you say. But stay open and be willing to sacrifice who you are today to fix your problems and lead a better life.

Realize that the end result has no practical difference in your life.

Whether I exist or not is irrelevant to this journal in this realm we call "life". I can through my "crises" very calmly. If nothing matters, I doesn't really matter.

I also don't feel the need to talk or the need to please people who are uncomfortable with silence.

What do you mean by existential crisis?

>>2837748

Personally, I feel that Buddhism requires a leap of faith just like other religions (even though Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion). Most Buddhists would say that there is an objective meaning of life - to end the cycle of suffering by achieving enlightenment and to help others to do the same.

This isn't a constructed (subjective) meaning like you find with the existentialist. The Buddhist thinks this is the real state of things (objective). Yet, there isn't really any "proof" for the objective metaphysical aspects of this worldview. One can empirically observe the world and wish to end the suffering in it, but that alone isn't Buddhism. Buddhism requires the adoption of metaphysical concepts such as samsara and nirvana. Of course there are a huge amount of variations in Buddhism, but this seems to be an essential core concept.

If I redo the list it would look like this with five options to overcome the existential crisis -

1. Existentialism - the affirmation of subjective meaning

2. Leap of Faith - the irrational affirmation of objective meaning (religion, etc)

3. Absurdism - the skepticism of both subjective and objective meaning (a continuous confrontation with the absurdity of existence)

4. Nihilism - the denial of both subjective and objective meaning (I don't know what this looks like in practice)

5. Ignore the question (the unexamined life)

>>2838327
>(even though Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion).

That depends on the sect.

There are a few non-theistic sects but the majority require the believer to accept things by faith.

>>2838327

Good post.

How can nihlists deny subjective meaning though. Actually, it kind a overlaps with objective meaning. So maybe they can.

Let's say I go to travel the world. Now I can state that it's meaningful. What do I really mean by that? That I believe that it's meaningful? Am I just deluding myself as there is no objective meaning? Don't subjective and objective overlap? I can (make myself) believe all I want, but as I know there is no real objective meaning - it has no meaning.

On the other hand it has a meaning and importance for my present existence. By travelling I would gain hedonistic pleasures. It is of use for me to experience - I enjoy it - but what does 'meaning' mean in this case. Of use? of importance? of purpose? It is of purpouse and importance to travel if I want to experience something.

so what the hell?

Grow up some more. Seriously, everything just clicks after a while and you're happy for the rest of your life

>>2838415

>grow up
also known as - Pick 1) 2) or 5) from >>>2838327

Most of the case people choose 2) or 5). I'd say 1) is a pretty good choice

Too bad 4) is probably true.

>>2838432

why don't you think people go with option 3?

>>2838072 is obviously in agreement with such a choice. And also, why deny everything as in option 4? I'm sure the serious taking on of such an attitude may deflate your will and spirit, and probably leave you with some neurosis or psychosis. Wouldn't you at least want to maintain a certain attitude capable of taking genuine interest in social situations?

>>2838346
Even though you are right that it depends, even the religion part is atheistic.

>>2838410

Subjective meaning only works to the extent that you're able to convince yourself that your life is meaningful even though there is no inherent purpose to the universe. Existence precedes essence - in the absence of objective meaning you are free to create your own values. If one takes it seriously it is a very laborious and courageous project, or it can be as simple as "I live for my family."

I agree with your concerns about how it is possible to find subjective meaning in the face of objective meaninglessness. To some extent I do think it requires a level of delusion or perhaps just an incredibly strong will (the Übermensch). Personally, I tried constructing subjective meaning, but was consistently confronted with the absurdity of the project. It didn't work for me, but I do think it is a viable option for some people.

The nihilist position is very confusing to me as well. The nihilist is atheistic about objective meaning (similar to the existentialist and in slight contrast to the absurdist which could be considered an agnostic atheist on the concept), and denies the possibility of constructed meaning (in opposition to the existentialist and somewhat like absurdism). But whereas both existentialism and absurdism provide a motive for action (in the form of constructed meaning or confrontation of the absurd) I don't know what the true nihilist does in practice. Even suicide requires a motive that nihilism doesn't provide. I'm not sure it's possible to be a nihilist.

Medication.

>>2838327
It's not really a leap of faith, but you are not too far off either.

The thing is that any "ism" is saying something about the world. And saying something already makes it questionable, it already sets thing apart from the real thing, whatever that is.

That's why there is this whole debate on whether Buddhism is religion or not. Some treat it as a religion(ritualistic, dogmatic, etc), others treat it just as a perspective. But if you go deep into it, this can be said about most things.

The original Buddha said soemthing interesting: that whatever he says about it, won't be what he saw, and that each one has his own path, but because they wanted to know, he was telling his students what he did.

That makes it somehow like a paradox. If one is a buddhist (following the ideas of Buddhas, the enlightened ones), one might be assuming that this enlightenment things is one owns perception of what it could be. And that you'll be following Buddha even if you take a different route.

This is, of course, outside of the religious doctrine surrounding Buddhism, learned from the Dharmapada.

But "leap of faith" is in every position, there is no need to fear that leap anyway. It's just a matter of not imposing that thing on top of the other things which are real to you.

>>2838521
Nihilism is a philosophy that doesn't come with an ethical incentive. It forbids nothing and recommends nothing. You can just fuck about. Or engage in a 50 year long project of pure discipline to master something completely knowing that it doesn't mean shit.

Nothing is true and everything is permitted.

>>2838327
Not sure I agree with that. You havent stated what leap of faith is in Buddhism. Samsara? Nirvana? If leap of faith is without any logical or rational reasoning, then samsara and nirvana surely arent leap of faith at all. It maybe true that ordinary buddhist might not know the logical reasonings behind nirvana/samsara, but that doesnt mean buddhism is based on leap of faith.

>>2838538

Maybe leap of faith is the wrong term to use. To me it summarizes the process of affirming that there is an objective or inherent meaning to the universe even though you have no reason to believe it. This is clearly a separate option from the other four options on the list, but I understand what you're saying when each in its way requires a leap of faith. The existentialist is making a leap when they say there is no objective meaning, the nihilist is making two leaps when they deny both objective and subjective meaning. Part of the reason I went with option 3 (absurdism) is that it requires you to make no assumptions or leaps of faith (imo). The absurdist is an agnostic atheist on objective meaning and doesn't deny the possibility of subjective meaning, only requiring that it confront the absurd.

>>2838327
>Most Buddhists would say that there is an objective meaning of life - to end the cycle of suffering by achieving enlightenment and to help others to do the same.
I think most Buddhists would say it makes sense even from a purely selfish perspective to attempt to end the cycle of suffering by achieving enlightenment, but that once you do that you naturally feel compassionate and want to help others do the same.

>>2838539

What you're describing sounds more like existentialism to me. You're basically saying you're free to do whatever you want. Which is exactly what the existentialist would say. So in practice the nihilist is exactly like the existentialist except they derive no subjective meaning from their actions? Any consistency in action would surely represent the adoption of subjective meaning ("I act in such a way because I have these values"). Or are they erratic and whimsical? Do they act on instinct? Describe in detail how this is possible in practice.

Question for those of you saying, "get a job", "grow up", "pay your bills", etc

What did humans do that indicated "growing up" before rent, bills, and jobs? Having a job and paying bills does not explain what it means to mature in a biological sense.

>>2838604
Worked farms. Before that, hunted and gathered, and raised the children. Before that, ate fruit just like they did when they were kids.

>>2838604
Before all that happened, you would need to go through a rite of passage and then become a warrior or learn the task of your father and help the tribe get food, or else you are cast out. If you do it, but you are lazy and lame, you die doing it.

Growing up and working is the most natural thing there is. It's about being active towards the world, pushing things forward the way you can.

What is not biological and not natural is to stay on the internet 24/7 because there is a fridge full of food and a safe bed near you.

>>2838614
Surely, then, one can mature without getting a job.

>>2835930
I listened to Soldier Horse Soldier Horse and now I wish I were a ghost. I wish I was forgotten. I wish I were a faceless memory wandering the endless battlefields. I want to be someone the history books ignored. I wish I were part of a nameless metaphysical entity comprised of all of us.

While this has presented many new problems, at least now I'm over my existential fear of being forgotten or an individual.

>>2838630
I wasn't one of those people.

But yeah. I mean, I'd say Diogenes was a self sufficient adult.

I'm always fascinated with the idea that people had existential crises. I never had an existential crisis, though the thought of my own meaninglessness perpetually graced my mind, I was fascinated with it...not for any particular reason other than the undefined implications meaninglessness (the big picture with no emphasis on detail) i.e. the universe, what happens after death--but all with no emphasis on myself, or even the whole of humanity. I don't know why, but I really relished my existential..."crisis."

>>2838521

I see, I haven't really had a chance to read into this yet, but agnostic absurdism is most appealing as it claims not to know if there is any type of meaning or not. Nihilism actually gets a beating here. How can one say for certain that there is no inherent meaning in the universe from our mere human observation and reasoning? Parallel can be drawn with non-agnostic militant atheists, whom some claim to know nonexistence of God.

It will be interesting to read how absurdism allows creation of meaning if it is not even sure if meaning exists or not. Face the absurd - what next? a tl;dr ver maybe?


>mfw haven't shaved in a week

In my experience working hard and having to provide for yourself makes it more likely you'll have an existential crisis. You aren't just comfortably coasting through life taking things for granted. You're forced to ask yourself what makes your toil worthwhile and whether or not it even matters. I've worked some very strenuous jobs and it was constantly on my mind.

Wank until I'm shooting dust out the end of my cock like a fucking mummy spunking or something. Just like totally try to rip the end of your cock off for like three days. That'll sort you right out.

>>2838596
You can just fuck about, the term freedom doesn't enter the whole thing. Neither do things like meaning and representation of adaption of meaning and all that stuff.

I'd say practical nihilism is quietism. It's basically scepticism that says "no" a couple of times instead of "don't know" all the time.

>>2838661

For me, absurdism was the position I reached when I failed to create subjective meaning. Whenever I tried to box myself into a set of values or adopt a purpose I would eventually feel like I was deluding myself and the project seemed futile. I don't think that my life has a subjective meaning, even though I think such a thing may be possible. Instead I simply find some level of satisfaction in the process of confronting the absurdity of existence.

>>2838643
>>2838630

Diogenes had to work. Farmers have to work. We all have to work.

Work is not just the regular job we usually speak, it's any work. It's about washing your dishes after you eat.

But the best way to say this in this context is still "get a fucking job".

>>2838783
Putting your own effort in securing what's necessarily to survive is indeed a fine definition of maturity. This would include collecting welfare though.