/lit/ - Literature

Elric of Melniboné

You already failed, OP.

The Dresden Files

>>2806736
>itz poplar i haet it xD

>>2806748
I don't hate it because it's popular. I hate it because Martin is a bad writer.

>>2806759
>>2806759
That's just your very wrong opinion, buddy.

Tolkien's works dealing with the earlier ages of Middle-Earth.

>>2806788
tolkien is shit

>>2806794
>hurr, the movies became popular, all tolkien must be shit

>>2806736
>>2806794
you need to go

>>2806800
Not at all the same person. I should know because I was the person who said OP failed. I mean, I agree with the other fellow that Tolkien is shit but I've never said so in this thread until now.

>>2806818
Not the guy that replied, but you still need to go.

The Warriors series was really good when I read it in grade 6. Considering reading it again. The character development was done really well and it made me feel all sorts of feels.

Not to mention that it's about cats.

I don't understand why a lot of tolkien fans balk at the movies or the idea of an abridged book.

I've read the books and I'm a fan, but I loved the movies, and I think an abridged version would help the stuff be more accessible,

If David Copperfield and Les Miserables can get trimmed, why is it so sacrilegious to give LOTR a nip tuck?

>>2806858
To abridge a novel is to destroy it. You're taking a finished work by an author and altering it in ways they never intended. If you're going to reach for an abridged version of a work then don't even bother and kindly make your way to the children's section.

>>2806862
I agree with this guy %100.

>>2806862
Horse-puckey.
Most authors don't have the balls to make the cuts that they should.
You only need to reach the second chapter of Les Mis wholly devoted to describing a monastery to know that abridging can bring a novel alive.

If it's a choice between being true to the author or being true to the story, than count me with the cutters. And I'm not the only literary critic who thinks so.

The sculpture is made by the chisel and the polishing cloth.

This is the 21'st century, abridging doesn't destroy the original. It augments it. The full text is available across the world.

I just wanted to know from these full text purists why something like War and Peace can get cut but not Tolkien, Is it a matter of the age?

>>2806895
>make the cuts that they should
>abridging doesn't destroy the original

OH I KNOW, LETS JUST PUT THIS IN GRAYSCALE TO MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE.

>>2806895
LETS JUST CRACK THIS UP TO MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE

>>2806895

It's because Lord of the Rings is a better book.

>>2806895
LETS ADD A TRILOGY OF PREQUELS TO MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE

>>2806928
forgot pic


The point being: Why would you take something that is noted as being good and change it substantially?

This is a real simple concept: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Unabridged books and writings should be left in their unaltered, original state.

>>2806908
Dude, "destroying" a work of Postmodern Art by desaturating it? Do you understand Postmodern Art?

>>2806923
Do it, smash it. I give nary a fuck.
Because neither would refute my point.

I'm just glad I could help pretentious /lits think of yet another criteria that they can use to feel more special about themselves.
"I read only the abridged versions. Not only that, but I look down on any abridgement as a desecration and blasphemy. I'm so pure."

Don't stop there. We can go further, "I only read first editions," "I only read untranslated works."
"I only read vacuum sealed copies, with surgical gloves under a soft light so as not to oxidize the pages as I savor each precious ink mark individually."

How is the weather that far up your own ass? Is it raining?

>>2806858
Being more accessible is the same as being shit.

>>2806935
The concept of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Is entirely based on the idea of scarcity, the idea that you would destroy something that is fine as it was by altering it.

Abridging doesn't destroy the original text. The Star Wars Prequels were horrible as fuck, but they didn't "ruin" the original trilogy.

and cutting the extraneous material from LOTR wouldn't destroy the original books. Yeah, the movies were good, and their existence doesn't screw with "the precious" trilogy.

>>2806858
I don't think they need to be cut though, it would just be like making a novelization of the movies, based on the books. It'd just descend into an adaptation circle jerk.

>>2806942
you are quite adept at articulating your own ignorance.

Here, let me break this down a bit in green-text:

>An artist using any medium creates an original work.
>Said artist gathers a following of supporters amongst contemporaries and critics.
>Artist's original work is highly sought after; receives acclaim and praise from various sources.
>Artist ceases to produce said work for some cause (lets say the artist dies)
>Originals are preserved in both public and private venues of collection and archive
>Copies are made, mass produced for public consumption.

So consider this instance. What has more value: The original article or the more accessible reproduction?

>>2806960
You literally missed the point

Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn

>What has more value: The original article or the more accessible reproduction?
Market value or artistic value?

>>2806977
The value of the art is the thoughts and feelings that it evokes. Which is not diminished when it is copied ad nauseum.

God forbid that a few million people get to share in a wonderful story.
Better that a few people understand a novel with 99 to 100 percent of the authors original intent, than many get to experience 75 percent.

No, you're right anything short of pure fidelity is worthless, why listen to music, you know how much is lost in the transfer? If you're not going to sit in front of the actual orchestra then you're not getting the full experience.

And anything short of the full experience is sacrilege.

Nice sparring with you, but try again when you care more about what something has to say and not as much about how it is being said.
Miscommunication is a part of communication and you can no more eradicate miscommunication than you can "destroy" a book by abridging it.

But by all means, continue to feel that only you, and the few who agree with you "really" understand literature. You'll love it at /lit,
After all, it's not about reading or discussing themes, genres and forms, it's about feeling enlightened superiority.

The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon

Ugh, I really hate these threads.

"HEY LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME COOL FANTASY SERIES GUISE"

and, inevitably:
> ASOIAF by GRRM
"Complex, mature, gritty. Probably one of the greatest fantasies out there IMO."
> LOTR by Tolkien
"He basically invented the fantasy genre!"
> Malazan by Erikson
"So complex it will blow your mind! Probably one of the greatest fantasies around."
> Legends of Jizz't DooDooden by R.A. Salvatore
"He writes the fight scenes like you were really there!"
> Black Company
"More military fantasy, this time with 10% more Grit and 20% more Dark."
> Wheel of Time
"Classic fantasy series, probably one of the greatest!"
> In the Name of the Wind
"Not your typical fantasy story."

Even in their element fantasy fans are tasteless plebs that perpetuate the current stagnation and narrow scope of the genre.

>>2807011
inherent artistic.

hell, i'm just glad someone didn't immediately equate the term "value" to mean monetary market exchange. I was expecting it.

Obligatory Discworld Recommendation.
I Know, I Know, it's no Illiad, it has not the literary weight of the Divine Comedy, but if anyone here is a fan of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Series, you will seriously love Terry Pratchett's stuff.

>>2806942
Don't forget:
"If you're not going to research the background of the literary work than you might as well not read it!"
"You can't have gotten anything out of that book, you never read a biography of the author!'

Seriously, abridged, unabridged, just be glad some people are reading.

I recommend Jules Verne, though I don't know if you wanted straight Fantasy or Sci-fi and fantasy.

>>2807036
In that case, and assuming the reproduction is precise, neither has more value.

>>2807025

You're talking about altering part of the genuine text.

By your own association that would be equivalent to omitting an entire section of your orchestra in a recorded production of the work, not simply a difference in setting in which the work is viewed.

You seem to be completely overlooking one of the foundations of substantial literature. Quality writing places more weight on how information is conveyed rather than what information is being conveyed. You apparently missed that lesson in your elementary courses.

I regret that you feel that I'm being elitist in my stance. However, you clearly have a convoluted appreciation of written matter.

Also:
Holy Hell, I missed the point of this thread

>>2807077
You shot a larger hole in my argument with a single sentence than this guy (>>2807025) did in multiple tl:dr posts.

What does /lit/ think of Kingkiller chronicles?

Abhorsen Trilogy

>>2806732
First Law by Abercrombie
Farseer by Hobb
Malazan by Erikson
Discworld by Pratchett

>>2807135
love it, also I must have a high res of that Kvothe picture!

I thought ASoIF was good until reading DoD. After that, the amount of bookfags on /tv/ only makes it worse.
But, to the point:
>The First Law Trilogy by Joe Abercombie
>Gentlemen Bastard Sequence by Scott Lynch
>A Land Fit For Heroes by Richard K. Morgan
>>2807002
The last one hundred pages of the first book was good. Otherwise, it was your typical first book in a trilogy: too much setup and backstory, but not enough action.
>>2807135
I like the story because it's fast-paced, episodic, and picaresque, but Kvothe is a stupidly-perfect, two-dimensional asshole who is always right and perfect at everything (which I honestly believe is his Knack). His enemies, like Ambrose, are just as thin and flimsy as him and have no redeeming qualities.

>>2807151
not that guys but this is the largest i could find

>>2807152
What is DoD?

>>2807154
Thank you much. My recollection of the books is fuzzy but do you figure the city in the picture is intended to be the university?

>>2807152
I always considered that Kvothe was so smart he was stupid. He underestimates everything and everyone because he is so smart.

Not to mention he is the one telling the story, who knows what actually happened in certain situations.

>>2807155
"D" is for "Dance" "o" is for "of" and "D" is for "Dragons".
Learn to spell, this isn't Sesame Street, dumbfuck.

>>2807105
I'm not trying to say you're elitist. I'm just saying the idea that the story is destroyed when not conveyed with full integrity is a real misrepresentation of what the story is.

The Lord of the Rings Movies aren't "Less than" the books, they are different to them. They are a completely different creature, and maybe in past eras the act of abridgement might have meant replacing the original material, but in the 21'st century? There is no amount of abridged copies, fan-fiction or bad adaptations that can ever diminish the original piece. Each new derivation becomes a work in its own right.

Furthermore, editing refines story, and in most cases, improves it. J.R.R Tolkien was not trying to tell an epic story, he was trying to build a world around the work he began when he created his languages. Anyone who thought that Peter Jackson's RotK was anticlimactic need only read "The Scouring of the Shire" and the appendixes.

Now that material was trying to convey a theme, a sort of "You can't go home again." That he also exemplified with Frodo's wound and his leaving Middle-Earth. It was thematically contiguous, but it was not written well.

I will admit to having a convoluted appreciation of literature. I just want to let you know that there is a reason for it. I prize story over style.
Literature is not about "how things are said." That cannot be separated from "what is said."

I wouldn't abridge Ulysses or Finneagans Wake, (annotate but not abridge.) But I would never complain if someone else decided to do it, because as much as I prize the experience of the unabridged work, I don't think that a reduction would be worthless.

Abridgment is not a forbidden desecration of literature, it's another aspect of literature.

>>2807163
Yes, when he just footed it from the caravan and found the university for the first time.

>>2807177
Tolkien's choice of words can never be replicated in a film. That being said, only a fuckhead would say the movies may NOT be considered less than the books.

>>2807173
ADwD (A Dance with Dragons) is the title of the book...

>>2807173
typical /lit/ derp right there

>>2806960

Yes they do, the movies effect how people read the novel from now on. And since Jackson does not understand the novel, it has really serious implications.

Things I'll never understand

- why must we compare all fantasy series to decide which one's better. Can't you enjoy multiple serie at once?
- people who found Feast and Dance boring. Sure they're less action packed than SoS but there were many interesting chapters. And Cersei's hilarious.

>no mentioning of Conan or Robert E. Howard
I am disappoint.
Just go read Conan and Solomon Kane already.
And while you're at it, Bran Mak Morn and Kull.

>>2807038

Hell yeah, Í've only read the rincewind books so far but they're amazing.

Rings of the Lord

>>2807911
I thought they were a bit meh, I like the other books a lot better, the characters are just so much more likable than mopey rincewind.

>>2807898

In the same vein: No mention of the Barsoom stories.

On a more serious note: Gene Wolfe's "Book of the New Sun". If you like sf/f and you haven't read it, get off your ass right now and do so.

I'm currently reading The Liveship Traders trilogy and really enjoying it. I was initially put off by the nautical setting, but once I started reading I found it pretty intriguing and not something I've read much in fantasy novels. I suspect some people might dislike it for the same reason as AFFC and ADWD- it's slow-moving and has a lot of POV characters- but I quite like these kind of books, so it absolutely works for me.

The Night Angel Trilogy, and I'm hoping the Lightbringer series will be good as well as the first book was great.

Change of pace, Kingmaker/Kingbreaker and Black Magician trilogy

For kids, the Edge Chronicles

The Black Company, obviously. A breath of fresh air in a genre of trope masturbation.

Roger Zelazny - The Chronicles of Amber

>>2807890
the thing about ADWD isn't so much the lack of action as it is the complete lack of any closure after nearly 2000 pages

Probably the best thought out magic system in existance.

>>2808806
>written by a mormon

>>2808806
Hey, that's not The Way of Kings by the same author.

The First Law Trilogy, Abercrombie.

>>2808811
Wait, aren't they strongly opposed to the concept of magic?
I might be confusing them with the Westboro Baptards.

>>2808759
Read Night Angel, Lightbringer and Black Magician is Change of pace, Kingmaker/Kingbreaker in the same tier as those books?

>>2808806

Just finished the last book last night. This guy is fucking great with twists, but I was pretty disappointed with the actual ending.

Also, all dat teen angst in book 2

>>2808806
I do not like how people say this book or the series has the best magic system known to date, it does not it is a mediocre book filled with teenage angst, babbys first love and opening one's self to trusting other.

This is the foundation plot that is used in every single fantasy novel.

>>2808759
Who wrote Change of pace?
There are like 5 different books all with the same name 2 have some male romance gay

>>2806732

Lol nope. Thomas Covenant The Unbeliever.

>>2807029
>Read fantasy thread, notice some recurrent titles
>read wikipedia articles on these titles
>post bullshit about stuffy you never read in order to annoy fantasy readers
http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/strategies-and-approaches.aspx

>>2809514
>>2809491
>>2809439
>>2809401
>>2809204
>>2809164
How sad is this? Its Saturday night and instead of being out there socializing you here talking about books.... just sad.

>>2807188
>>2807203
Fuck me, you guys are right. I was remembering the historical event in the book series. Sorry, I fucked up.

>>2809491
seconded.

LORD OF THE RINGS films are mediocre.

>>2809623
sunday for me. heavy rain outside.

>>2809514
Wow this thread is still here. Great response, bro. I've read the books mentioned in my post and they are nothing for you guys to be constantly circle-jerking about.
You just have poor taste and can't stop sodomizing Tolkien's cold dead corpse or getting ecstatic over the new "refreshing" dark-and-gritty military campaign shit.

To reiterate, you have poor taste and are the reason the fantasy genre is 95% excrement.

The Sword of truth series is quite good.

Havn't read it in a few years, in my early teens, so perhaps it is as i remember it; but if it is, then its an amazing story. 13 books long?

>>2809932
No, it is not quite good and you are suffering from nostalgia.

I was a fan of the first trilogy by Sara Douglass:
- Battleaxe
- Enchanter
- Starman

Her later stuff wasn't as good though IMO, but if you've got time then these three books are worth a read.

>>2807135
basically what >>2807152
said.

Although it is interesting how broken and beaten down Kvothe is in the present day.

>>2807029
apart from ASOIAF, everyone says the opposite

>>2806732

Harry Potter

>>2807029
You are clearly not familiar with the majority of these series. I agree with your point, though.

Inheritance Cycle

>>2808790
what is this?
'looks' interesting

also, robert jordan masterrace reporting in
i honestly don't understand how in the fuck half of you can actually say that the series is bad or 'too political'
>inb4 "HURRR JORDN SUX COX"

Tasteless, trashy and sex-fuelled bullshit.

I fucking love it.

its like every board on 4chan is shit

Mistborn

As a fantasy novel it stands slightly out from the crowd by having a setting which doesn't conform to the usual norms. However in terms of story and characters it follows the usual tropes but is still worth reading.

Perdido Street Station
Some would argue about it's place here but they're probably the same mongoloids who read the sword of truth series, and the belgariad, then wonder why there's no fucking innovation in the fantasy genre.

Tome of the Undergates
A good start unfortunatly undermined by the second book in the series, Black Halo, which would not surprise me if it's pages were found to contain up to fifty percent of it's mass in excrement.

Castle Omnibus
An odd series of novels that again deviate from the standard fantasy tropes. It's moments of brilliance are undermined by moments of meh making it a decent read but not a fantastic one.

A few mentioned previously that I would heartily recommend are the First Law trilogy along with the stand alone novel The Heroes as well as the A land fit for heroes trilogy by Richard Morgan.

Finally to weigh in on the argument. Any story which takes longer than three books to write is not a story but a fucking soap opera and is just going to end with you being fucking disappointed. I loathe every fantasy series because they are the literary equivalent of cocaine. It's all good at the start but then you realise the books are getting bigger, the highs are fewer and further between between, it drags on an on as your dealer strings you along and it it finally ends with you wishing you were dead.

Try Richard Morgan - Steel Remains and Cold Commands. Hard gay Ringil on his quest against looming Dark Lord, basically three-pronged story with him, a renegade Barbarian and some kind of black elf female outcast. Very well written, gritty and sometimes humorous, prime example of sword and sorcery genre. Plus you'll have third and final part of the saga to look forward to.

>>2809926
AUF DER HEIDE BLÜHT EIN KLEINES BLÜMELEIN, UND DAS HEISST: ERIKA
HEISS VON HUNDERTTAUSEND KLEINEN BIENELEIN WIRD UMSCHWÄRMT ERIKA
DENN IHR HERZ IST VOLLER SÜSSIGKEIT
ZARTER DUFT ENSTRÖMT DEM BLÜTENKLEID
AUF DER HEIDE BLÜHT EIN KLEINES BLÜMELEIN, UND DAS HEISST: ERIKA

IN DER HEIMAT WOHNT EIN BLONDES MÄDELEIN, UND DAS HEISST: ERIKA.
DIESES MÄDEL IST MEIN TREUES SCHÄTZELEIN, UND MEIN GLÜCK, ERIKA.
WENN DAS HEIDEKRAUT ROT-LILA BLÜHT, SINGE ICH ZUM GRUSS IHR DIESES LIED
AUF DER HEIDE BLÜHT EIN KLEINES BLÜMELEIN, UND DAS HEISST: ERIKA

>>2809926
>You just have poor taste and can't stop sodomizing Tolkien's cold dead corpse or getting ecstatic over the new "refreshing" dark-and-gritty military campaign shit.
Either you didn't read anything you mentioned and you're just posting to piss us off, or you read all of it then why would you have done that to yourself if you thought it was shit? You could have stopped after 50 pages of ASOIAF just like D&E, and he has way more credibility than you.

Silverberg's Majipoor series.

>>2809987
You call that mary sue

How has Gormenghast not been mentioned yet?

>>2810126
>>2810113
>>2807152
>a land fit for heroes
I nearly listened to /lit/ and contemplated buying the book till i saw it was full on gay, i don't need to read about butt thrusting fetishes

>>2810113
and why, pray tell, is anyone who reads the sword of truth series labelled as a mongoloid?

>>2811478
Ringil's faggotry just alienates him. It basically justifies his status as a loner. The author deals with it maturely, so I have no earthly idea why you would believe it's basically one big fuck-fest

>>2806942
>Missing the joke

The only reason most people like ASoIaF is because it's so mature and gritty. It's like Twilight, it's just average mainstream fantasy and fan wanking.

>>2811517

>>2809630
no worries

Neil Gaiman anyone?

>>2810870
I think everyone was sick of hearing about it in the last thread.

>>2811512
So at no point in either of the books does he spread eagle to recieve his muscular lover?

>>2811985
Anon its just a book made by the author to garner sympathy towards gays, the protagonist is ill treated because of his "differentness" you are made to feel(or tried to make in my case) compassion and understanding towards gays and the knowledge that "gaysex might be ok" when you finished reading this.
Just ignore it hence you turn blubbering confused idiot who has to spend months regaining what brain cells were lost. Other than that its a good book but that gayness just made me sick

>>2811566
Yes, very much. American Gods, Neverwhere, Sandman and Good Omens are the best starting points.

>>2808759
I'm not sure if it was just me, but I found Kingbreaker to be awfully anti-climatic and very much a load of nonsense. The first novel could be left on its own with the reader's assumption being that the bad guy wins and everyone died.

Stephen King

The Eyes of the Dragon

>>2812320

>Not a series.

I can't believe no say Kim Harrison's The Hollows, Or The Iron Druid Chronicles or Joe Pitt Casebooks.

Bakker

>>2806862
Because LotR is a breezy weekend read. You talk as if it were as long and plodding as Atlas Shrugged.

>>2813812
none

>>2806942
>Implying Warhol wasn't making modern art.

>>2808806

>Probably the best thought out magic system in existance.

I swear, when people talk about Brandon Sanderson, they only ever say two things.

1) Wow, he sure puts out books really quickly!
2) He invents some neat magic systems!

Nobody ever discusses how most of his books are garbage, or how his characters are mostly flat, boring mary sues (especially in The Way of Kings, holy shit).

Sanderson can craft a decent world and magic systems. That's about it. The characters, the pacing, the story.. It's all subpar with him otherwise.

Redwall

Prince of Nothing, Black Company, First Law, the Hobbit (and by extension Lord of the Rings, because come on, that shit is adventure at its finest), aaand that's all I can think of right now.

>>2810087

its a good feeling, being the master race

>>2813919

>mary sues
>WoK

I don't think you know what that means

>>2814073
Mary sue would be:
The name of the wind.
The Mistborn Trilogy
Night Angel
Artemis Fowl
Septimus Heap
Black Magician
etc etc

>>2814207

I haven't read any of those, but I can't think of any Mary Sue characters in WoK.