/lit/ - Literature

augh I just bumped the other thread for this purpose. Oh well.

I'm still trying to migrate all of the country charts over to /sub.

For people who want to help, here's the basic code for a country table:

{|{{Prettytable}}
|colspan=5|<h3>[[File:nameofcountry.png]] nameofcountry </h3>
|-
|colspan=5 style="background:#C3D69B;"|'''Essential works'''
|-
|style="background:#D7E3BC;" width="120" align="center"|[[File: .jpg|80px]]<br/><small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]''<br/>(year)<br/> by </small>
|style="background:#D7E3BC;" width="120" align="center"|[[File: .jpg|80px]]<br/><small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]''<br/>(year)<br/> by </small>
|style="background:#D7E3BC;" width="120" align="center"|[[File: .jpg|80px]]<br/><small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]''<br/>(year)<br/> by </small>
|style="background:#D7E3BC;" width="120" align="center"|[[File: .jpg|80px]]<br/><small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]''<br/>(year)<br/> by </small>
|style="background:#D7E3BC;" width="120" align="center"|[[File: .jpg|80px]]<br/><small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]''<br/>(year)<br/> by </small>
|-
|colspan=5 style="background:#8DB3E2;"|'''Further recommendations'''
|-
|rowspan=1 style="background:#C6D9F0;"| titleofperiod ||colspan=4|<small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]'' (year) by </small>
|-
|colspan=4|<small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]'' (year) by </small>
|-
|colspan=4|<small>''[[wikipedia: | ]]'' (year) by </small>
|-
|}

Year is for year of the work, you put the title of the wikipedia page for the work after wikipedia, then on the other side of the | put the title. And upload the cover files and use those as the "File:" part.

I assume you're Sriq. Excellent work thus far.

A few things:

*The "Essential works" section&mdash;organize it chronologically? I ask because some of them appear to be in random order (German, Dutch)

*Shouldn't it be Netherlands, not Dutch?

*Keep in mind you can add more than 5 essential works if you deem it necessary. See the Fantasy section for an example.

For all you others: we are in need for more recommendations! Take a look at the current list, and see if there's anything we've missed (or unjustly marked as "Essential").

We could also use recommendations for categories we haven't put up yet (Irish literature, English literature, Science fiction, Horror) and so on.

Take a look, anyway:
http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/sub

>>2790241
>Shouldn't it be Netherlands, not Dutch?

It should.

>Keep in mind you can add more than 5 essential works if you deem it necessary.

I thought the essential works were kept to 5 so as not to disturb /sub's layout?

>>2790252
>I thought the essential works were kept to 5 so as not to disturb /sub's layout?
5 wide, yes. It's possible to add multiple rows, though.

Oh and I appear to have attempted unicode on 4chan, what I meant with that first bullet point was:

*The "Essential works" section--organize it chronologically? I ask because some of them appear to be in random order (German, Dutch).

>>2790254
>5 wide, yes. It's possible to add multiple rows, though.

Right. Isn't the idea behind essential works that they define the foundation and scope of a country? We should strive to keep essential works to the bare minimum.

>organise Essential works chronologically?

That would seem to be best. The reader would get a sense of changes over time, movements, developments. Good idea.

It would be cool to have a notable books of this millenium guide.

>>2790265
>We should strive to keep essential works to the bare minimum.
Alright, I agree. I was just pointing out that it's technically possible.

>>2790269
Yes, I imagine we'll do periods at some point.

>>2790265
>We should strive to keep essential works to the bare minimum.
I agree, and would like to add that "essential works" should roughly correlate to "time country has existed". So, say, India/China/etc. could have 15 essential works, France/England/Germany could have 10 essential works, and colonies (South Africa, America, Australia, etc.) could have 5, or something along those lines. Of course, this isn't a hard line, but I think it's a reasonable guide.

But the essentials over time have been done, that's the canon bros

>>2790276
I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do think you've broadened the number too much. Remember that the further back in time one goes, the slower the developments were, so it's not necessarily true that older regions/countries should have more books in their Essential lists.

>we should try to keep the number of "Essentials" as close to 5 as possible

>Not using Bloom's Western Canon as a reading list.

>>2790294
Bloom doesn't even like his Western Canon shitface.

>>2790305

I never implied that he did. It's still a good indicator to all the decent core literature.

>>2790314
Only for the Western world though. Obviously.

>>2790314
Why don't we decide for ourselves rather than listening to a withered old plum? You're what's wrong with this board.

>>2790241
>*Shouldn't it be Netherlands, not Dutch?

The thing about that is that we were just doing Dutch language literature, not literature from the Netherlands. I believe we have writers from Belgium and other Dutch-speaking places on it too. But I'll change it to Netherlands.

The Spanish literature chart is going to be a pain though. It's not for literature from Spain - it's literature written in the Spanish language.

>>2790327
Well, I imagine the process of sorting the various works by country is less work than re-organizing the entire page by language.

No matter, though, we have plenty of time.

>>2790277

You don't understand what the canon is.

I can't believe there isn't a broader selection of Non-fiction books. Given that it equates to half of the books that get published not to mention they're selling more than genre fic or literature in general, you'd think they'd get more of a comprehensive list.

>>2790328
I don't really think it'd be too difficult to sort by language, but I've been wanting the Spanish one segregated off anyway. Separate ones for Argentina, Uruguay, etc.

I'm working on adding in everything for China right now.

>>2790342
There isn't a more comprehensive list because no one with that knowledge has felt like making one. We had a former tripfag who was a philosophy grad student make all the philosophy ones. I like essays and travel literature, so I made those. No one here who knows a lot about history, politics, or anything else has stepped forward to make one for those categories.

>>2790354
The problem with politics, history, law, etc. is that they're such broad categories and they can't adequately be represented by a handful of books. I'm a law major, but there's no way I'd make a law sticky, because it'll be totally focused on my region and specialties.

It's nigh-impossible to make those lists.

>>2790362
I'm fully aware how extremely broad they are, which is why I didn't even want to try and make one with my already tiny amount of knowledge in those categories.

It's even funnier that a lot of people tend to ask for a "non-fiction" essentials recommendations chart. As in, one single chart to cover the whole of non-fiction. All of it.

>>2790372
I think we should link to language learning resources on that front. People come asking about that a little too much.

This torrent would be a good piece to build it around, I feel. A tonne of books spanning 25 different languages.
http://torrentz.eu/66c4ec783d85918b146be4a11586e0f32d8e3233

>african author list doesn't have Soyinka

>>2790459

Where is this African author list? All I see is a South African author list.

>>2790459

You could have just said "Hey, the African author list doesn't have Soyinka, maybe it should". You didn't have to use the quote function.

>>2790475
I'm sorry for being so inconsiderate.

>>2790484

You fucking idiot answer me already where is the African fucking authors list.

Thinking about it, having all this on one page is going to be extremely long.

CSS bro, is there a way where we can get this on three separate pages (one for country, one for format, one for genre [maybe another for non-fiction?]) that are linked from the first page? It's already getting a little cumbersome to scroll through.

>>2790487
i think he's confused himself. i only see the south african authors list, too. in which case, wole is not supposed to be there.

>>2790502
Yes, I see your point. I'll try and whip up a "selection screen" of sorts.

>>2790541
Alright! I guess I'll keep working on doing whatever. Got the contemporary novellas chart table'd. I'm trying to think of ways to categorize the 100 Novellas and Flash Fiction charts.

boomp

>>2790502
How's this sound:

>Literature by origin
(Recommendations based on country, period, etc.)
>Literature by format
(format-specific recommendations)
>Genre fiction
>Non-fiction

Would that be an alright way of sorting it? Anyone got a better idea?

>>2791621
Alright, I whipped up a selection screen based on this. The idea is, the recommendations for each category go on a separate subpage. I'll add some navigation tools to make switching between them easier, too. What do you think?

http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/sub2

Quick bump before bed.

All feedback appreciated. Let's make the wiki a resource to be proud of.

bump

>drug fiction recommended reading
Congratulations /lit/, you've sunk to an all-time new low

Somebody add The Night Land to fantasy, The technological society to non-fiction/philosophy, and Doctor Kashmir to memes.

Jesus guys, this is like opening the tomb of Tutankhamen

>>2792233
drug use is a relevant topic for the demographics of 4chan

>>2792233
Why are you against drug lit? It's not all written by so-edgy teenagers you know. You're a fool to dismiss the valuable insight in those novels.

>>2791806

I've got to say, I don't think /sub2 is needed.

/sub has adequate sectioning right at the top of the page.

>>2792263
>>2792279
And sure enough, the only part of the post that gets a response is the one where I call out the pacified inbred who constitute habitual drug users for soulless clinging parasites who seek hyper glorified representations of their habits in every conceivable book, film, man, women and child that they are. You probably can't stand to consider the thought that indulgent references to "lol I smoked teh joint" every three paragraphs written in a continuous stream of unending drivel is about as literary as asking a computer to generate a list of randomly interconnected words and feed them into a paper-shredder. You probably stand on the edge of your toes in disgust to avoid realizing the patent fact that drug "literature" is the biggest bait-and-switch money-grab in the history of mass market publishing since the advent of harlequin romance. Or that you could rip apart the contents of every weed bong 420 XD snot pile of cocaine induced wankery thrown up on a keyboard by twelve year old basement dwellers who honestly believe that the ecstasy pill they took ten seconds before has genuinely made them the most intelligent person alive who is best suited to solve all problems of the human race

But I've got news for you. It isn't literature. It isn't even a book. Drug "fiction" is a collected series of disjointed paragraphs unified by the common intersecting influence of LOL DRUGS ECKSDEE vainly trying to pull together the contents of a multicolored diarrhea dump

>>2792310

>>2792310
Can I just say you are really cool

>>2792310
wow a bong hit would do you wonders

>>2791806
I like it! The cover pictures could be chosen better, but I know that's not the point right now.

It feels like it's going to mostly be just me and you working on this though.

>>2792310
A lot of the books on the drug lit chart take a negative view of them. I think it's unnecessary but it's a wiki; people add what they want and what they think other people are interested in, and the interest is there. It's also great to be able to tell the people coming to look for a book to read after Hunter S. Thompson "blew their mind" to just go to the wiki and check out that chart. I think function triumphs over principle in this instance.

>>2792727
Yeah, I was just swiftly picking four relatively well-regarded works that roughly correspond to each category. Very open to suggestions.

I've been ultra busy these last few days, but I'll be able to resume working properly on this stuff after work today. We can definitely do this.

Is there a way to make the pictures large enough to actually see/read the covers? Kinda defeats the purpose...

>>2793168
The covers are mainly there for aesthetic purposes, and there's always text accompanying them. But yes, they can probably be made bigger. I'll fiddle around with them to find the sweet spot (the biggest they can get without breaking the Wikia skin).

>>2793168
Are you talking about on the big charts on Recommended_Reading or the ones on Recommended_Reading/sub? If the former, you need to click the magnifying glass in the lower right-hand corner after clicking the picture. That gives you the full version.

James Baldwin needs to be in the Civil Rights era, he was a rather prominent essayist during that time - to choose a specific collection of his to put down, I would go with Notes of a Native Son.

I felt a serious lack of Confessions of an English Opium Eater (Thomas de Quincey) and The Hasheesh Eater (Fitz Hugh Ludlow) in the drugs section.

>>2793225
Confessions of an English Opium Eater is going to be on the memoirs and autobiography one, if that's any consolation.

New navigation menu rolled out (in its beta form, anyway):

http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/sub

Now to fill up the various pages.

>>2793660
Nice, thank you! I'll try and put the travel literature and essay on the non-fiction to help flesh that out.

Where do you think the recommendations for female authors, depressing lit, humor and drug books should go?

>>2793660

Nice, it's looking really good, I dig it

>>2793660
Is it possible to have http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading (the sticky link) go to http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/sub instead? I have no knowledge of this stuff at all.

>>2793666
I'm thinking either under a sort of "By theme" or "Miscellaneous" section under "by format."

>>2793678
The /sub location is just temporary--it'll be moved over to the URL given in the sticky once it's a bit more fleshed out.

>>2793683
Oh okay, good job anyway. It's purtier than any wikia page I've ever seen before.

>>2793683
I kind of thought depressing and humor might go under genre. Or at least humor would?

>>2793687
Those would be miscellaneous surely?

>>2793687
There is no reason why we can't have a "By genre" section.

>>2793694
I know. We do have one. The question was where charts like humor would go - under "by genre" or something else. I guess a miscellaneous section is fine.

How would you feel about adding a "Historical fiction" section under Genre fiction?

>>2794401

Sounds fine.
Just start a thread to get some recommendations going.

>>2794420
Of course.

On that note, I could really use someone knowledgeable about sci-fi to help me figure out how to divide the works into sub-genres (rather than periods, which is what the image guides mainly use). That trip man Mr. Eko seems to know a lot about it, I'll have to ask him.

Bump in hopes of attracting a sci-fi expert.

Does sci-fi need to be divided up that much?

You got Classic stuff (Wells, Verne, etc), New Wave (50s, 60s, 70s), then cyberpunk, then....

But is it being divided up chronologically, or is by sub-genre (like "space opera", "hard SF", "military SF)?

>>2795083
Well, that's what I'm wondering. Would a chronological or a genre-based approach to the chart be preferable?

>>2795090

Um, I think... I would probably do it by genre. I know from my own experiences with SF that I tend to think, "Oh, I want some exciting space opera right now," or, "I'm in the mood for some hard SF now," rather than, "Think I'll pick something up from the New Wave."

I think it's better by subgenre. Plus, if you want to pay real attention to detail you can always order the sub-genre chronologically to sort get a good combination of the two approaches.

>>2795118
Fair points. The only thing really keeping me back is a lack of knowledge of the genre in general (I don't even know which subgenre Asimov goes under).

I suppose I'll set aside an afternoon and do some research. Thanks.

That poetry chart needs a major overhaul. I'm not widely read enough to do it on my own, but I'll work on it in a bit once some others give in feedback for what should and should not be there.

>listing music instead of letting it be its own things
>no Milton
>no Shakespeare
>no Wordsworth
>no Blake
>no Keats
>no Dickinson
>no Pound
>no Moore
>no Stein
>no Nabokov
>no Carver
>no Berryman
>no Stevens

Also,
>"Rime of the Ancient Mariner" specifically for Coleridge, when his conversation poems are superior and Lyrical Ballads in general would be a better recommendation

>>2795182
Sounds good! Is translated poetry going to be okay to put on it as well? I could suggest something there.

Got a question to the German version:

First thing, there is Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann in it, but not The Magic Mountain. If you include Mann you should include The Magic Mountain!

Another thing, can anyone really say that they enjoyed 'Effi Briest (1895) by Theodor Fontane'? I read it back in school and I hated it. It was one of the most boring books I ever read. I have to admit, this is more than 10 years ago, so maybe I was just too young to appreciate it, therefore I am asking if anyone here has read it and liked it.

And last, there was this whole discussion about Kafka and if he should be listed under German literature. Did we come to any conclusion about this now? I also noticed, that in the recommendation pictures, Kafka's books are in the German chart and in the Czech chart.

>>2796051
Yes, I imagine a section on translated poetry would be most welcome,

>My face when there's no scandinavian (or the individual countries') section

>>2796070
You're irrelevant, get over it already, fixing the Nobel doesn't mean shit.

>>2796070
>penis pump?

>>2796076

>implying Hamsun, Ibsen, et al. don't exist

>>2796082
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk

kamelaasaa.

>>2796070
>kamelåså

I love you.

>>2796062
The German chart has both Buddenbrooks and The Magic Mountain. I'm not sure why you aren't seeing the later, but it's there.

I think the easier solution is to juts have Kafka on both the German and Czech charts. It's not hurting anyone to have him in two places.

>>2796070
So fucking make the recommendations yourself. There are very few people working on the wiki, they can't know everything about every country's literature ever.

It's supposed to be a community effort.

>>2796070
This is a wiki. If you feel there should be something in there create something for it yourself.

>>2796070
There's a Norway section in the new recommendations system.

>>2796099

Oh what I meant was in the /sub. There only Buddenbrooks is mentioned. That was what I wanted to point out.
Well ok, then we have him in both charts.

>>2796146
No, The Magic Mountain is on the German section in the /sub also. It's under essential works, at the top of it.

>>2796161

Goddamn disregard what I said, it seems I can't read...

>>2796124
We should really make a collective Scandi lit section though.

>>2796264
Why collective? We're doing it by country, not general regions. Just make recommendations for each separate country. There's enough literature from each of them to warrant their own tables.

>>2796062
Glad to see there's still discussion about the German pic!

I created it like 2 years ago, and included Effi Briest because I wanted something from Fontane and Effi Briest is the archetypical "tough woman stands up for herself" book in German literature. I agree it's not the most interesting writing and could've lost a couple hundred pages, but for me it belongs there.

>>2796314
Do you agree with what we have for the "essential works" off the German chart? Sorrows of Young Werther, Thus Spake Zarathustra, The Magic Mountain, The Man Without Qualities and The Tin Drum.

Can we add a Korean lit recommendation or is there nothing notable from Korea?

>>2796345
There's plenty notable from Korea. I guess I'll work on it.

>>2796347

That would be wonderful! Thanks.

>>2796351
Got it started, at least! I put up eighteen books for Korea, both classics and modern.

I would like some nice books to read for my times when I'm feeling like reading. Thankyou, Mr. Wiki-writer.

>>2796325

Not him, but I would switch Werther with Faust. Faust is so much more important than Werther in German literature.

Faust is probably the most important piece of German literature ever written. So I would change Werther for Faust.

>>2796478
Alright, thank you! They've been switched.

Should "Literature by format" be changed to "Literature by type" instead?

"Type" just seems like a better term if we are to include categories for themes, etc. in addition to formats.

Why does /lit/ recommend this book?

>>2796958
Influence.

>>2796958
It's an enormously influential work that serves as a great example of a Romantic novel. However, I agree that Austen is somewhat overrated, and I think Sense & Sensibility is the superior work.

>>2796958
Because it's very clever.

>>2796829
Yeah, I'm thinking "by type" would be better. I wouldn't feel so bad putting a miscellaneous in it then.

Am wondering if anyone wants to help maybe put together an SF short story list / image?

I've read a fair bit bit of SF but could definitely use some help on this.

I don't really want to shoehorn the few great SF story collections in to the overall "literary" short story recommendations I'm doing, as there's probably enough they deserve their own list.

>>2798180
I am not at all familiar with sci-fi, but I could help you put the thing together code-wise.

Perhaps a sub-section ("Short story collections") under sci-fi here?
http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/Genre_fiction#Science_fiction

Anybody have a say in what should be the five "essential works" of literature from the USA?

>>2798191
Ouch. Well, a few spring to mind immediately:

Moby-Dick
The Great Gatsby
Something by Twain, maybe?
Maybe a Hemingway work, too.

Put up Australian lit's table too. I have The Man Who Loved Children, The Fatal Shore, Voss, Cloudstreet and True History of the Kelly Gang as the essential works for right now.

But I don't know much about Australian lit, so it would be nice if I could get some thoughts/suggestions on that.

>>2798206

I think Twain is a must. Same goes for Fitzgerald. You should probably put the Great Gatsby in, since I think it is Fitzgerald's easiest / shortest novel. If people like the book, they will pick up his other novels too.

Moby Dick sounds fine to me.

Definitely something by Faulkner. Haven't read much by him, so not sure which novel to include. Same goes for Hemmingway.

The last one is rather tricky, there are a lot of other great writers. Jack London, Harper Lee, Steinbeck...
Also what about Nabokov? Would you include him in American literature? If so, I would probably add Lolita as the last book.

Overall I am no expert in american literature, so if anyone has a better idea, feel free to comment on my choices.

>>2798828

Anything Australian is shit. We have to have the worst possible market for anything creative. And anything we do have is just plain bad. I mean, the only dominant thing in Australian art right now is fucking Aussie hip hop, and Lord knows that makes you want to sodomise yourself.

>>2799004

Faulkner's a must.

'Light in August' or 'The Sound and the Fury' and Steinbeck's 'The Grapes of Wrath' should be on there, imo

Two questions:

Should we keep the French literature's recommendations titles in the original French, like the chart is? Or continue to put the works in translation on the table (plus a section for the ones that haven't been translated)?

Where the heck is Norse/Viking lit going to go? Is it another we'll need to divide up by country?

If anyone feels like going through the Spanish chart here and dividing up the works by the author's country of origin, that would be pretty awesome.

>>2799206

Hm I think the translated names would be more usefull, but that is just me. Maybe we could put the french names in brackets behind the English name. I also wouldn't mind just leaving the french name be.

The norse / viking stuff is rather difficult. I think we should make a extra category for this. Dividing it between the different countries doesn't seem to be too helpfull. I would just leave it as viking / norse literature.
For the different countries I would take later works, when they were really written in sweden or norwegian. I think the purpose of the norse chart was to put in all the works of norse / viking mythology into one chart and this idea seems fine to me. If there is any newer stuff in there I would take it out and put it to its country.

I will see, maybe I have some time later today to do the spanish stuff, but I am rather busy these days.

>>2798828

Not on the list but should be:

Eucalyptus - Murray Bail (bizarre romance novel)
Middle Parts of Fortune - Frederic Manning (WWI memoir)

I don't know why Shantaram's on there.

>>2798828
Body surfers
Fly away Peter
Oscar and Lucinda
Power without glory
Death of a river guide

>>2799012
You are a fucking fool. Shut your mouth, or get your head out of your ass before you type. You may like the taste of shit but no one likes smelling it on your breath!

>>2799206
Most of the Norse lit is Icelandic.

bump

>>2799275
Okay, I added in a section for Iceland then. Added the Norse/Viking chart to their recommendation image bit, since the only things that aren't Icelandic seem to be Beowulf, the Kalevala and The Long Ships. I need help with the essential woks for Iceland too. The Eddas and something by Halldor Laxness are all I know should be there.

just gonna reiterate that it is totally cool for anyone else to help work on this

I had no idea people on /lit/ had read so much Chinese, Czech, Dutch, or Korean liteature. Bravo!

>>2801942
Are you a fan of any authors from those areas?

>>2801942
I know we have several Dutch and Czech anons who frequent here. Not sure about any Korean or Chinese ones.

I set up the table for Poetry for the anon who mentioned it, or anyone who'd like to help.

http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/Literature_by_format#Poetry

bump

To bump and because I don't want another thread of my own: here's the anon updated "19th century and earlier" short story collection image.

>>2803440
Nice. If you're still taking suggestions, Tales of Moonlight and Rain by Akinari Ueda should go on there.

>>2803440

I would recommend some Bierce but he is in a weird ass tweener place.

>>2803461

Good one. Given I've read that, and very much liked it, I don't know why I forgot about it.

>>2803465

I'll add Bierce. I haven't read him but he seems like a decent addition.

And yes, further suggestions (other than the ones in the last thread) for additions to this section or any other are still most welcome! Now the overall list is being divided up I think we can try and be more comprehensive.

I just saw the mexican section and whoever recommended that poetry anthology edited by Paz and translated by Beckett was having a laugh.

>>2803440
Another good pre-20th century Chinese collection for it would be Feng Menglong's Stories Old and New, from the Ming dynasty.

I recommend Iceland's Bell be added to the Icelandic section. Also, why no Greece/Greek?

>>2803529
There's none for Greece because it hasn't been made yet. Like has to be re-stated constantly, it's a work in progress.

If you know a lot about Greek literature, make us up a list of recommended works and we'll put it on there.

bump