/lit/ - Literature

>>2769117
drugs (prescription)

>>2769117
Every decent author ever has written about it.

Why should I care that the universe doesn't care about my small pursuits. joy feels good and that's good enough.
I think the books you are after are in the domain of religious work. maybe some buddhist stuff, ecclesiastes in the bible. you'll probably like the myth of sisyphus by camus.

It just doesn't bother me. Yes, everything I do and am is ultimately pointless, but it's not pointless *now*.

>>2769117
You do it because you don't have a choice.

Sorry.

I ignore it and do what I enjoy.

>>2769117
Misguided thought. Knows nothing about what he's talking about. Probably the kind of person who reads a book and takes nothing out of it.

>>2769117
I'm studying Molecular Biology and Proteomics. Within the next 20 years I will recreate the nodules found in lizards using my DNA for compatibly, transplant it into my body, and enjoy being 19 forever as my heightened stem cell production keeps my bodies cells replenished faster than the can degrade.

The fact that my life is meaningless is of no concern to me when I'm immortal.

>>2769163
how can you even know what you enjoy?

>>2769117
Look no further than this man. He is the king of nihilist materialist hedonism, while at the same time being some sort of holist naturalist, coming to the conclusion that you should do what feels good, in the most non-compromising sense, because what you desire is per definition according to nature and can not be wrong. He was also somewhat of a Social Darwinist avant la lettre. Some quotes:

>Nothing we can do outrages Nature directly. Our acts of destruction give her new vigour and feed her energy, but none of our wreckings can weaken her power.

>All, all is theft, all is unceasing and rigorous competition in nature; the desire to make off with the substance of others is the foremost - the most legitimate - passion nature has bred into us and, without doubt, the most agreeable one.

>So long as the laws remain such as they are today, employ some discretion: loud opinion forces us to do so; but in privacy and silence let us compensate ourselves for that cruel chastity we are obliged to display in public.

>Social order at the expense of liberty is hardly a bargain.

>The primary and most beautiful of Nature's qualities is motion, which agitates her at all times, but this motion is simply a perpetual consequence of crimes, she conserves it by means of crimes only.

>>2769183
If there would be one single thing that might be able to escape the cruel judgement of scepticism it would be what we feel to be pleasant and what not. There is no theory here, no discussion, not even the question of if it is real or not, because it doesn't matter. The moment your hand touches a flame you will be presented with what is possibly the realest thing in your life, namely the impulse to seek pleasure and flee from pain.

>>2769163
Such is the life of a pleb.

>>2769204
>a pleb.

I just adore your witty insults. I think you are far to articulate for a board like /lit/.

submit to based god, and all will be revealed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl1Iox5MDrE

>>2769190
>>2769190
>Nothing we can do outrages Nature directly. Our acts of destruction give her new vigour and feed her energy, but none of our wreckings can weaken her power.
Again, misguided thought. There's no "Nature" as you put it. Your use of the concept is fundamentally wrong. You have to go beyond the illusion of "natural" and realize the true things in it.

>All, all is theft, all is unceasing and rigorous competition in nature; the desire to make off with the substance of others is the foremost - the most legitimate - passion nature has bred into us and, without doubt, the most agreeable one.
Passion, another illusion. A very effeminate one. For you to deal with another's substance, you must first open yourself so that YOUR substance will be altered. This is neither wise, nor desirable.

>>2769229
>So long as the laws remain such as they are today, employ some discretion: loud opinion forces us to do so; but in privacy and silence let us compensate ourselves for that cruel chastity we are obliged to display in public.
The laws of men are no valid laws. A man who shows one face to the world and another to the ones close to him shouldn't be called a MAN. At least, not when the adjective "effeminate" does not preceed the substantive "man".

>Social order at the expense of liberty is hardly a bargain.
Social order IS liberty. Liberty is not doing whatever the fuck you want, kid.

>The primary and most beautiful of Nature's qualities is motion, which agitates her at all times, but this motion is simply a perpetual consequence of crimes, she conserves it by means of crimes only.
If you say there's crime, then there's limited law. But there's no law other than that of the universal order. All is in the universal order, so it is not limited. Therefore, there's no crime.

Also, stop trying to copy my style. It's rather unpleasant.

You're a confused person who simply is afraid of the real world as it is, so you lock yourself into your cage of fake intellectuality and abstractions that have little or nothing to do with reality. Your idealizations of the word lock you in your cage, diminishing your hopes of redemption day by day.

>>2769215
>not acknowledging the cultural relevance of the word pleb

More reason to call you a pleb, pleb.

>>2769117
Human affairs only appear "pointless" when you take the perspective of the wide universe. Among humans things matter because they wish to call their short lives good, happy, or both.

If you are going to despair, despair because human society is going down the drain, not because "everything is pointless" in the "grand scheme".

>>2769236
Misguided thought.

>>2769231
>cultural relevance
Son, no matter how many times you repeat the word 'pleb' you will never be cultured or relevant.

I suppose you're reading 50 shades of gray and listening to one direction too, as they seem to be 'culturally relevant' right now. Why don't you try doing and saying things that properly express yourself, rather than attempting to fit in.

>>2769229
Do realize that he is quoting the Marquis?
Can you read?

>>2769240
Is this the new "roach"? You won't be able to force that either.

>>2769229
>>2769233

Thanks, I'll run your notes by the Marquis.

I realised that looking for an external point is synonymous with looking for someone to tell you what you should be doing, a god if you will. Externally imposed aims. I have always hated the idea that there should be someone external dictating what I should be doing, so I have coped quite well with the idea that there is no point. To have no "point" is to be free.

>>2769281
Your preferences are nothing.

>>2769287
They're everything to me.

>drugs
>why should I care
>just doesn't bother me
>I ignore it

that all sounds like letting yourself down intellectually to me

thinking about things from a universe perspective - rather than me as a person perspective - was good, though

that's I think how I looked at things before this depression cycle that I got myself into tonight. I do want to follow the story of the universe, and might as well find some stuff to do, however pointless it is, to pass the time.

this is the kind of thing (like thinking about death) that most people put off (as in, to do later) in their life. I confronted it today and fuuuck it's affected me quite a bit, tomorrow morning I'll probably feel better/different and giggle at myself, but shit.

>>2769341
You're scared of death.

>>2769297
This is precisely the point. (refer to the guy i quoted from above)

>>2769345

>You're scared of death.

Still coming to terms with it, yeah. Though I don't really think that's the problem now, I'm less scared of it currently than I was in the past.

I'm fairly sure that I'm actually experiencing depression now, just from sitting down and writing around a thousand words (started off on thinking vs feeling based behavior) that led to how everything was to just please cravings in the brain. I have experienced depression before and this does feel like it. I always thought it took more than that to snap someone into or out of depression.

>>2769341
>letting yourself down
>he chases his shadow when he could lie in the shade

>>2769349
Feeling is an inferior form of cognition when compared to thinking.

This does not mean that thinking is absolute.

One must find absolute.

Absolute is freedom.

>>2769351
Why not swim in light?

You do not understand what "lying in shade, instead of chasing your own shadow" means.

>>2769349
It sounds to me like you've externalized your own mind. You need to remember that you aren't working to sate your brain; you are your brain, and your consciousness it part of it. Self-alienation is a very anxious and depressive state.

>>2769341
Brightest post in this thread so far.

What exactly would give "life, emotions and even knowledge" meaning?

Living forever? Going off to some magical fairyland after you die? What exactly would give it anymore meaning than what you can already attribute to it?

>>2769176
I'd murder you just to make a point. I don't have anything against you and you're probably a valuable member of society (even if you are exaggerating), but you'd still have to be shot on principle.

>>2769362
*is. Forgive me.

>>2769362
>Self-alienation is a very anxious and depressive state.
Make it clearer, so there will be no misunderstanding. Define self-alienation.

>>2769351

happiness and contentedness is boring, I'm all after wisdom n shit. I just thought there might be a different path to happiness and contentedness that doesn't say fuck you to wisdom - I fear there isn't, because 'wisdom' seems to says happiness and contentedness is futile.

>>2769354

>first line

Yep, that's what I thought, but I overthink to the point of anxiety and really should try the feeling thing out so I get along with people better and enjoy my life more. That's what got me started, though - I feel guilty about enjoying life because it conflicts with the 'thinking' part of me that says enjoyment is boring and pointless.

>after first line

you've lost me

could you be a little less ambiguous please, what you're saying seems pretty and appeals to the "feeling" part of me but isn't making much food for thought (besides guesswork about what you might mean)

>>2769176
>I'd murder you just to make a point. I don't have anything against you and you're probably a valuable member of society (even if you are exaggerating), but you'd still have to be shot on principle.

That's what I'm scared of. I will either keep my 'elixir' quiet, and just change location every ten years. Or sell to the highest bidder and hire a team of bodyguards and a secure compound to hide in. The latter might start a war between the normals and immortals though.

>>2769374
>>2769360

>>2769361

Thanks, was my first post as the OP in the thread after making it. Though, pic related.

>>2769362

I think you might be onto something, please do elaborate like someone else requested.

To (try and) sum up: I feel guilty about trying to feel and experience the world and be happy, as it lets down the intellectual and thinking and observing part of me.

>>2769176
...But lizards die of old age. Maybe you haven't noticed.

>>2769368
The text must be understood as a whole, not as separate lines.

>Feeling is an inferior form of cognition when compared to thinking.

>This does not mean that thinking is absolute.

>One must find absolute.

>Absolute is freedom.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I feel guilty about enjoying life because it conflicts with the 'thinking' part of me that says enjoyment is boring and pointless.
Guilt is internal feeling. You obey norm. Thiking part does not say enjoyment is boring and pointless. Thinking part says nothing about anything you do not command it to say. If you command thinking part to prove enjoyment is good, it proves it. If you command the opposite, the opposite is proven. thinking is not absolute. one must find absolute. absolute is freedom. enjoyment is illusion.

>>2769389

The thinking part logically and rationally tells me if things are true or not, and works things out for me. If I guess that something's true, the thinking part won't agree with me, but will figure out whether it is indeed true or not. So I disagree with that.

Still having a hard time with the text, I'm not sure what it means by "absolute". Worried that your reluctance to explain it proves that it is indeed ambiguous and supposed to be interpreted differently, and therefore isn't very useful.

>>2769385
Some reptiles (crocodiles for example) do not die from old age. I also have no intention of becoming a lizard, they just have a stem cell nodule for limb regeneration that I can manipulate.

>>2769378
Perhaps "self-alienation" wasn't so good a term (it has Marxist connotations, and I haven't read Marx in years), but what I meant was that you're intellectualizing a non-intellectual part of yourself, essentially splitting yourself in two and weighing the parts against each other from the perspective of your intellectual self, which would see any basic drives or needs as reasons for guilt instead of a simpler fulfillment.

>I feel guilty about trying to feel and experience the world and be happy, as it lets down the intellectual and thinking and observing part of me.
Why isn't it okay to try to do both? Each one is already unachievable (to be perfectly happy or perfectly learned) by itself. The guilt is the problem, and you need to rework your perspective to get rid of it, maybe?

I'm sorry if this is unintelligible. I discovered that lemon juice works really well with vodka this afternoon.

>>2769409
>The thinking part logically and rationally tells me if things are true or not, and works things out for me. If I guess that something's true, the thinking part won't agree with me, but will figure out whether it is indeed true or not. So I disagree with that.
You did not understand the text.

>>2769416
So you want to be able to lose an arm and get it back. Would that change your fingerprints?

>>2769416

The idea of not dying of aging snaps me out of depression pretty well. Though, I just realized, maybe it's because it means I can "put off" these thoughts (of death, pointlessness etc) for another time, and I previously said that was a bad thing to do (letting oneself down intellectually to 'put it off')

>>2769419

You've got to stop the edgy mysterious ambiguous shit dude.

>>2769421
I don't see that it changes that we are beings unto death. Being able to regrow limbs doesn't change that we will eventually die, it just means it's a little more unlikely.

>>2769427
>Thiking part does not say enjoyment is boring and pointless. Thinking part says nothing about anything you do not command it to say. If you command thinking part to prove enjoyment is good, it proves it. If you command the opposite, the opposite is proven. thinking is not absolute.

>>2769417
You preach one possible way out of many. You're still confused. You still do not know absolute.

>>2769418
I didn't intend to use it for limb regeneration, though I don't see why it wouldn't be possible... slowly. Yes you probably would have the same fingerprints unless you wanted to change them.

>>2769421
I don't know If I would want to live forever, but I refuse to let biology dictate my lifespan to me. I may end up getting to 150 and just getting bored.

>>2769434
I'm going to the beach. I'm going to try to enjoy myself at the beach and read The Plague. Goodbye for now.

>>2769417

That made sense, thanks.

Okay so I'm onto something. Is it an absolute truth that discovery and exploration is good, or is it only so because my brain says discovery and exploration is good? Because if it's the latter, then it might not actually be good, and I might only do it to please my brain, which is bad. If it's the former, then I'd feel better about myself.

If a logic exists that is uninfluenced by human perception, I think I could obey it and be chill without worrying that our (corrupt/false/unreliable?) human minds were just inventing a logic and making me live a certain way.

>>2769445
I wasn't trolling. You still do not know where you stand, that is why you have to try everything. You haven't developed conscious of absolute.

>>2769431

So you're saying truth doesn't exist?

>>2769454
Consciousness. My mind wanders.

To me the best reason is because I want to. Maybe it's instinct, maybe it's pride or integrity, it could even be defiance (against the universe, basically), but I want to keep going. I have thoughts of stopping in one way or another like everyone does but I just remember I want to keep going, and convince myself that is above anything else.
>>2769176
Would it become of no concern, or would it become the most concerning thing, if you couldn't escape it?
>>2769229
it's not his use, those are quotes, do you not get how quotes work?

>>2769455
Does your question not imply that thinking is the only way to find truth, in such context?

What does that tell you about my question, thefore?

>>2769462
It looked as if "this man" was OP.

since it seems like most posts here are steering you towards nihilist or hedonistic answers to the question of purpose, I'd like to put forward an alternative: Samuel Beckett's "The Unnameable". Personally, I find it to be the greatest work of literature I've ever read, but besides that, it probably poses the most effective rationalization for our existence I've read anywhere.

>>2769463

Yes. Clearly absolute truth does exist, and the way we come across it is through thinking. Some things are more open to interpretation, but I do not feel this is one of them. Saying that the response/fix to my original idea is ambiguous just feels like an excuse to give up on it, which is bad.

>What does that tell you about my question, thefore?

What question?

>>2769467

What man?

>>2769484
Where there is sureness, there is illusion. Where there is doubt, there's immanifest. One must realize immanifest to find Absolute.

>>What does that tell you about my question, thefore?

>What question?

"Does your question not imply that thinking is the only way to find truth, in such context?"

>>2769484
>Clearly absolute truth does exist
Clearly putting clearly before a statement doesn't make it true.

>>2769462
I was going to fix that, I guess I forgot, the phrasing doesn't go with the OP very well. I cope through self-determination and self-control (so basically willpower). It was very hard to learn those skills and make them good enough to handle what life throws at me (being stubborn helped more than it hindered me in that), and even so I have prescription medication to help, but I get by, and I'm happier than I was at some other times in my life.

>>2769500
>>2769498

So you're saying we don't know anything at all for certain? That kinda sounds like giving up, to me.

Your poetic-but-nonsensical views plus forced ambiguity/edginess doesn't make your views seem worth it.

>>2769525
Knowing is a flawed faculty.

>>2769534

Sounds like a pseudo-intellectual way to say "lol fuck i cba we dont know shit k just leave it lets get drunk n play video games"

>>2769539
Words sounds as what the hearer wants them to sound.

>>2769545

I want your words to sound wise and make sense

They don't

>>2769553
>2012
>thinking you consciously know what you want

>>2769553
You're too tense. If I may recommend, listen to Antonin Dvorak's "The Golden Spinning Wheel", Op. 109. There's no urgency in life.

>>2769560

i dont want to just stop replying to you because then you'll be all like "i must have got him with my deepness maaan he was speechless"

but i'm gonna stop now unless you say something genuinely constructive

>>2769573
>i dont want to just stop replying to you because then you'll be all like "i must have got him with my deepness maaan he was speechless"
So the aim for you is to win or something?

>>2769573
Those posts are not "me", that is, the man you were conservating with.

>>2769580
>>2769560

>>2769587
conversating. i am sorry for the many spelling mistakes.

>>2769587
>implying he is not also conversing with me now
You don't have the monopoly on conversations bro.

>>2769593
I used the past tense so as to indicate a situation where the conversation involved only two people, that is, before you joined us.

>>2769601
It made sense, I'm just being petulant.

The entire concept of this absurdity is a joke. Everything is inevitable, your debating the concept is inevitable, your decision is inevitable. Accept what it is to be human. You're not some soul caged inside a hopeless entity, you are that entity. And that is all you can ever be, because if you were any different, then you wouldn't 'be' at all.

>>2769728
Despite the "angry wife" tone given, there's <some> truth in those words.

But it isn't inevitably pointless.
I dare you to debate with a ph.d in philosophy and get your shit kicked, you're wrong and don't know anything OP.

>>2769737
You're going to talk to me about tone?

>>2769763
Tell me about your thesis!

How can you say it's pointless? You can't.

9/10 responded

>>2769117
I just tell myself there's no evidence enough yet to affirm anything. I believe someone or something started this shit(before the big bang). I don't know who or what, and I don't really want to know, because I'm obviously too small and inadequate for this kind of shit. Just let me with my little human things, they're complicated enough for me.