/lit/ - Literature

In what sense?

>>2767387
Ah, sorry.

I really enjoy the exploration of culture and mythology in them. I really enjoy the logic for gods and myths in the series, though I found American Gods rather disappointing.

Leave.

I don't know of any novels that have that kind of approach. That's why I read Sandman; because it provides something that AFAIK isn't covered in prose fiction.

Amongst other comics, Promethea by Alan Moore is a good one along similar lines.

American Gods is pretty much a story within the Sandman universe.

Also, does it annoy you when Watchmen is considered literary but Sandman isn't? It is the better work imo.

>>2767393
not fiction, but you could do worse than read joseph campbell's masks of the gods. as for the sandman... shakespeare + crowley + poe + malleus maleficarum?

as for lucifer... you may find unusual retelling of milton's paradise lost in the blood meridian.

>>2767410
I'll check it out, thanks.

>>2767534
Very, very much. I really like Watchmen, but Sandman and Lucifer are among my favorite things in writing

>>2767608
Thank you, very much.

Just in general I really like Gaiman's interpretation of Lucifer, it always made more sense to me than tradition representation.

>>>/co/

>>2767750
Why? I'm inquiring about books.

Besides Sandman is literary.

So, is Lucifer on Sandman's level then, OP?

>>2767745
>Just in general I really like Gaiman's interpretation of Lucifer, it always made more sense to me than tradition representation.

I agree. David Bowie makes such a better Satan than the biblical devils.

>>2768459
>WAH IM EVIL TO BE EVIL

>Actual fucking character with motivations

Such a hard choice.

>>2768459
Wait, how is he David Bowie?

Read Paradise Lost, OP.
Gaiman practically pull Lucifer off of Milton's work.

>>2768442
Lucifer is not even close to Sandman's grandeur IMO.
The first arcs are okay but the quality declines a lot after.

The Unwritten is a much much better comic by Carey.
/lit/core would love it if they weren't so biased towards comics.

>>2768442
OP here.

I... No. It's not as literary as Sandman, but I does manage to feel like part of that universe and gets the diverse mythology bit down, it has great moments and I really enjoyed it but if you're looking for Sandman exact, it's not the same thing. A comparison I would make, though I'm sure others will disagree would e the difference between Alien and Aliens.

There is also a point around the 5th or 6th volume where Carey does something that, well, if you thought it was stupid and stopped reading I couldn't actually blame you, but I stuck with and enjoyed it.

>>2768584
Alright, thank you.

The Unwritten is actually good? I need to start in on that then, I quite enjoyed Lucifer.

>>2768607
Yeah, The Unwritten is great.
I feel that Carey had so many great ideas for Lucifer but he failed in applying them maybe due to inexperience with the medium... I don't know. But he does it well with Unwritten. It's a nice deconstruction of some literary works and of comic books itself.

Also, back to topic: read The Canterbury Tales.
It's like World's End story arc. A bunch of people coming together in one place to tell myths and stories.

>>2768627
I liked the concept of Worlds' End, but not really the execution, I'll read it thanks.

>>2768570
Anyone going to answer me?

>>2768668

I guess because he kinda looks like him... I don't know.

>>2768786
I love that cover, and the later one where everything is dead.

I know we're on /lit/, but if you're really into the shared mythology thing and like video games you should check out Shin Megami Tensei.

>>2768799
This.
>there will never be a remake of Nocturne

>>2768802
>the nips will never make a videogame where the difficult is fair but challenging instead of the current system which relies on knowledge that can only be gained through losing bossfights and grinding ;_;

>>2768806
You know you love it, don't lie.

>>2768799
Interestingly enough; a friend just lent me Nocturne because I bought Devil Survivor 2 and was really enjoying it a week ago. Never played SMT before now.

>>2768806
It's like I'm really on /v/

>>2768830
>implying /v/ talks about videogames

>>2768570
I think he meant how Neil Gaiman based Lucifer's looks, personality, speech etc on Bowie, and sent pictures of Bowie to the artist with the scripts.

>>2768584
>biased toward comics

While I disagree with it I understand it.

What is /lit/'s opinion on Swamp Thing under Alan Moore?

You children with your picture books.

>>2769200
That is so fucking awesome.

>>2769309
People pretty constantly bitch about it.

>>2769245
Moore was still learning the art when he wrote Swamp thing, and it shows. Watchmen is of course his magnum opus, but I prefer V for Vendetta and some of his one-shots, Hypothetical Lizard for example.

Someone explain to me why League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is not /lit/'s collective favorite piece of literature. You'd think literary figures fucking each other would be the answer to all of /lit/'s prayers.

>>2769950
V is probably my favorite of his works. I still think Swamp Thing is outstanding though.

I didn't like LoEG too much, but I only read the first, am I missing out?

And it's /lit/. Picture books are for faggots and children. 50 Shades of Gray is at least a book.

>>2769973
It gets a lot more "Moore-ish" after the second book. More free love, incest, bestiality and all that.

>>2769985
So Mooreish in the "I'm a fucking insane hermit" he's been doing for a decade or so sense, as opposed to say the Warchmen/V era Moore.

>>2770007
I forgot to mention the magic shit.

>>2770007
He isn't a hermit. I see him at the chippy and Neros pretty regularly. He just isn't "I'm a fucking celebrity I demand you care about me and my bullshit".

>>2770032
The hermit bit was an exaggeration. More sarcasm than anything.

>>2770043
Sarcasm and exaggeration are quite different things...

>>2770046
But I can sarcastically exaggerate something. Which I did.

>>2770065
I'm sorry, Hal. It's too late, you've failed the Turing test again.

>>2770074

The fuck did you say to me kid? I'm a Navy Seal trained in gorilla warfare I'll slit your throat you little bitch, and make you wish your grandmother had never been born.

This is the weirdest thread I've seen today...

>>2770240
Thank you.

I'll see that you receive an ostrich. That ostrich will create an egg out of thin air. That egg will hatch infinite wormholes interconnected to the sacred womb of Mother Earth which you'll impregnate with you Holy Seed.

Holy Seed that I
smear on your face, don't clean
up. Embrace it.

>>2770273
what did he say about me?

>>2770280
Ah...there you are.

You missed my eternal gaze for an omni-second.
Come.
Face me.

>>2770112
Tell me more about gorilla warfare.

>>2770355
We hide in bushes and throw shit at people. Also have small genitals.

But we are the US military after all...

>>2770355
>The joke

...

...

...

...

>Your head

You guys discuss books the same way /v/ does game apparently.

OP here, the fuck happened to my thread?

>>2770273
>Alan Moore actually believes this

The fuck is this?

>>2770374
It stopped being about fucking retarded comic books thats what.

>>2770501
You're an idiot.

God dammit /lit/

Alan Moore is the single biggest asshat out there in comics.

OP, read some Joseph Campbell for some really good (but rather dated) nonfiction about mythology and the recurrent patterns and shared archetypes thereof. The Hero With A Thousand Faces is his most famous work. It goes indepth into his idea of a "monomyth" rooted in the core of our subconscious which each culture expresses through their myths, parables and fairytales. Some of the myths he uses to illustrate his points are mindblowingly weird.

Fictionwise, are you looking for something really close to Sandman in style and tone or just something interesting and religious?

>>2770698
Thanks, that sounds really interesting, definitely something I'm going to pick up.

More the second, but either is fine technically.

>>2770698
What would up to date Campbellesque stuff be?

>>2770698
I disagree. Hero with A Thousand Faces was really disappointing. You can read about the monomyth on wikipedia and walk away with the exact same amount of knowledge as if you read the book.

>>2770730
Any anthropology that deals with religion and superstition really.
If you'd like a more old fashioned version instead of modern, read The Golden Bough.

>>2770735
Yeah bro, there's no point in reading whole books now we have wikipedia.

>>2770698
How dated?

>>2770355
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>>2770823
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with that?

>>2770828
I would kill you, but then the title of "most repelling shemale alive" would pass on to someone else.

>>2770834
Sorry, do I need to explicitly say I recognise the copypasta? I'm just puzzled why you felt you needed to bump a thread to post it in reply to someone almost two hours ago?

>>2770840
>Look, you deformed foreskin, you've got one fucking second before I hump your neck full of shit.

>>2770845
That's nice.

>>2770845
Why did you greentext that?

Better yet, why the fuck are you posting this shit in my thread?

>>2770846
The only pussy you ever see is when you look in the mirror

>>2770848
Your dreams are unimportant because you're a semen demon.

>>2770852
Your face is below the average level of attractiveness and your mother has a loose vagina.

>>2770848
Oh OP, I'd given you up for gone.
Have you read Promethea? You might need some experience with psychedelics to really wrap your head around some of it but it is a really significant work of Moore's and the most overlooked.

>>2770848
>my thread
>he thinks he's some author god

>>2770860
Nope, I check in every couple hours at least, and will do so until 404.

I have not, I did however buy a copy for my girlfriend because she thought it sounded interesting and I had introduced her to his other works. I don't think she ever got around to it, but I'm sure she'll lend it to me.

I always heard it starts off really strong but then gets kind of... insane, in a bad way.

>>2770859
In 6 months, you will be dry humping a fuckwit journalist for spare change in a run-down factory, you fatty.

>>2770866
Bahahaha, how many days have you been a dog fluffer?

I despise Gaiman, but thought Lucifer had its moments.

Read Preacher. It's fucking essential and God-tier.

>>2770876
I am going to love you so angrily it will make your whole house smell for weeks.

>>2770883
I loved Preacher other than the incredibly immature humor. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of funny moments, but the 47 look alike just served as a punching bag for a long while, even ending up having his crotch eaten by dogs and then he used toilet paper of other characters faces... It was jus fucking stupid.

The last volume though, holy fuck that was a great ending.

>>2770876
Funny, I thought it started out weak then got awesome. It depends what you like reading. I got a bit bored of the extensive detail given on each tarot card but they're not all that important. If you like drugs, comics and myth at all then it's a must-read.


You might also enjoy Transmetropolitan, The Invisibles, The Filth and Preacher. These five and the Sandman & Lucifer are pretty much the peak of lit in comic pages. Obviously there others too but they're a good start. Like Maus, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On A Serious Earth, The Authority, and so on. I'd try to narrow the choices down for you but it's quite late. Anyway, hope you enjoy reading whatever you choose!

>>2770897
Nobody gives a fuck that you're a miserable cockstain, there are innumerable other reasons to despise you.

>>2770897
I thought the humor was dark/peculiar enough that it lent to the ultimate horror of the story, even if some of it could be considered immature. Arseface, for example, is a canonical grotesquerie, imo.

>>2770903
As said, will definitely give it a go.

I already stated my opinion on Preacher I think the post before yours, and I actually just finished Transmet about a month ago, I enjoyed it. Only other you mentioned I've read is Maus.

Thanks for the recommendations.

>>2770903
Yeah, The Invisibles is pretty cool. Though its pretty weird that Grant Morrison actually believes/practices chaos magic or whatever. Though I guess Alan Moore does the same shit.

To each their own.

>>2770909
The girl with the one eye was funny too, as well as Jesse's reaction to the other vampires in his Special.

>>2770909
As I said, there is a lot of good humor in it, I certainly laughed of than a few times while reading it, it was just some of it was really pathetically immature.

I would never call it a series not worth reading, I just think it has some flaws. That being said, I did love it.

>>2770917
"You're a fucking wanker!"

>>2770916
I have had slightly similar beliefs to them in the past. It's hard to explain, you both do and don't believe in the things at the same time. I'm fairly certain Moore does that, I know less about Morrison. It's very much to do with powerful hallucinogens.

Your mother fucks for bricks to build your sister a whore house.

>>2770935
I believed in Chaos when I was like 12, trust me, the belief doesn't age well.

>>2770949
Roses are red, violets are blue
You're a fuckeitted dick taster

>>2770952
I don't think you entirely understand, but I'm not sure it's something that can be explained. That or the drugs damaged my brain and make me think that. Same side of two coins if you ask me.

>>2770979
It's likely the drugs. A year ago from now I was tripping on LSD fairly often and a lot of that stuff (chaos magic, sigils, etc.) connected with me in what felt like profound ways. But in retrospect, not having tripped in a while, it all seems retarded.

Not the anon you were responding to, btw.

>>2770979
I did actually, and it kind of scared me at the time. I've spent basically my whole life reading through religious, scientific, political, philosophical, all sorts of shit. (hence my coming in this thread)

And best I can tell you, the nihilists could be right and none of this fucking exists anyway. But I don't believe that. But on a fundamental level, it's hard to prove otherwise.

Only thing I have yet to do, (obviously there's still plenty of reading materiel) is start trying drugs and see if that helps. The idea never really interested me honestly, other than maybe some of the seeing your subconscious type shit.

>>2770952
Actually disregard >>2770979 a bit, it almost certainly can be explained, I'm just very tired so may not do a good job. It's not "Chaos" or any other specific belief system anyway, it's more like internally deciding that just because something's imaginary doesn't mean it's not real in a sense; it exists within your head. Of course the rules by which it exists are different, but it's still real.

>>2770999
Oh I see stuff like that from time to time but I don't consider it to have any impact on the "real" world other than that which is enacted through me. See >>2771005

>>2771005
Steering this bam to the literary conversation, this would be comparable to the gods system in Sandman. Where in Sandman gods literally exist because people believe in them, this is actually true to an extent in reality.

Gods have power in reality, even if they have no true form. Look at the power Christ holds in the USA, it's only because people believe in him that he can influence anything. Contradictory interpretations aside.

I know this is a simplistic explanation, comparison, whatever, but figured after all the shit posting someone should mention a book again...

>>2771027
You realize giving attention to the shit posting makes them do it some more right?

>>2771027
Well, perhaps in theory, but in American Gods they behave as though they have a seperate consciousness from what a human mind picturing them would think of them doing. Especially as there seem to be duplicate Gods for distant geographical locations, why would that be a more important difference than the difference between one persons perceptions of that god and anothers? Plus the definitions of what makes a god are somewhat overstretched. I may be wrong, I haven't read it since I was quite young but I came away unsatisfied with that book. He's great at character design but I think he doesn't always take premises through to their logical conclusions. Good Omens is his best work.

>>2771044
Actually I think you're wrong, for one of the reasons you cited.

There are duplicate gods, because they're in different places, they don't seem to be the same personality either which lends itself to the idea that how they are worshipped and believed to be in the mass sense is how they are in that place, or better put, how that place's version is.

>>2771065
But I don't think there would be enough homogeniety in all the different peoples beliefs to consitute one single being. It's entirely possible for two groups of people to have incompatible beliefs about the same deity for it to need two different personas. As an example, surely there are enough people who believe in Black Jesus for him to be a god in his own right? Seperate to White Jesus? They'd certainly behave very differently. How many people actually think of "television" in the manner it's anthromorphised in the book? He either needed to introduce some rules that could explain these differences but it seems like he didn't and just left the logic where he'd got to.

>>2771083
I'd take this even further and demand that without even giving some token patch to cover this, given the metaphysical impossibility of experiencing something the same as someone else does without actually being them, I'd hold that each single mind will have a belief about that character incompatible with every other mind, every single one would need to be it's own being. There would be no aggregates. The apple I imagine is different to the one you imagine, no matter what.

>>2771083
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'm assuming it does simply round the beliefs out to an extent, I mean it as sort of a culture thing than actual beliefs.

Since someone recommended a video game series I'm going to say all bets are off.

Watch In the Mouth of Madness, OP.

>>2771100
Yes, I understand, but I think he doesn't even attempt to explain why this is the case, when it just seems quite arbitrary. I think this may be why I read less fantasy, I always get annoyed at the illogic that's innate in much of magic use. See: Harry Potter can probably make an entire house come out of his wand, solid, but he can't conjoure up a simple meal.

>>2771129
To be fair scifi gets away with shit by saying TECHNOLOGY DID IT.

And to be fair, without flaws in most cases we wouldn't have a story.

I'm not saying that makes it better.

>>2771141
If he didn't want to take it to the logical conclusion he could at least have patched it up with some reason. "Technology did it" is a patch. That said, good sci-fi often makes an effort to explain itself. Not always, but an awful lot more than magic ever did. Fictional magic that is, actual shamanism and stuff has very important rules and logic. Of course it doesn't do a lot, but at least the logic's sound to the best of their understanding.

>>2771162
I agreed with you, why are you arguing?

>>2771175
It's past 7 in the morning and I've not slept. Sorry. Didn't you want to keep the thread going?

>>2771181
Eh, OP hasn't posted for a while, unless you're him.

I was actually considering sleep myself at this point. Nice chatting though.

>>2771190
Cool. Coolcoolcool.

First Gaiman thread in /lit/ that didn't devolve into accusations of fag, gay, or homosexual. Well done, /lit/, well done.

>>2771337
>1337
I hate being the one to point that out, but it's certainly fitting.

>comics thread

Adding these essentials:
- Love and Rockets. Jaime's Locas stories are the best comics I've read. Gilbert's Palomar is okay too, but his recent work has been regrettable.
- Criminal by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips
- Scalped by David Aaron and R. M. Guera

>>2771195
Community?

>>2771110
Have. Film is very Lovecraft. Has a lot of cool ideas but as a whole isn't spectacular for some reason. Certainly worth seeing...

I'm assuming the recommendation was based on the whole "reality is what we believe it is" motif?

Holy fuck /lit/ way to be /b/ 3.0

>>2772572
You realise how stupid you look saying that only five posts after
>First Gaiman thread in /lit/ that didn't devolve into accusations of fag, gay, or homosexual. Well done, /lit/, well done.
? Keep your meta-opinions to yourself. Why bump the thread if you think it's bad, anyway?

>>2772585
OP had a legitimate inquiry.

You faggots just made a shitty thread.

Why punish him?

>>2772596
You're blaming me? What makes you so sure I'm not the OP? You're and idiot.

And again with this crap. Bump for some recommendations.

Wait, /lit/ likes comics now? What the fuck?

>>2775353
No.

>Hey I like Sandman
>Read thread

Fuck you /lit/

>>2775819
Fuck you too.

>>2775353
80% of people who don't like comics come to this conclusion in two ways.
1. PLEB, I'M SO MATURE I DON'T READ COMICS, I ONLY LIKE CLASSIC LITERATURE.
2. They've never read anything.
There are people who genuinely don't like comics, but considering this is /lit/, I'm doubtful any of them are here.

>>2775840
Ironically the people in group 1 should love Sandman.

>>2775842
That's not what ironic means.

>>2775901
Because the thread wasn't retarded enough already.

Dont read Campbell Op, wikipedia has that covered.

>>2775901
I realize this is old, BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHY IRONY MEANS YOU RETARDED FUCK

>>2777146
Why are you even on this board?

OP, you still around?

Do you want some actual recommendations?