/lit/ - Literature

Oh...wow. Troll, get out.

>>2656088
go back to reddit

Anime can be good but it doesn't really compare to deep literature in my opinion.
>tfw I love Death Note and Code Geass

>>2656092
how does that have anything to do with reddit? lol what

undercover redditfag trying to look big and tough

>>2656095
>mfw Code Geass.
>mfw Death Noter
nigga what?

FILM—Not /lit/.

Giant Robo, the OVA series, stands on par with some of the greatest works in literature in my opinion. Cowboy Bebop is cool and avant garde and my favorite of the ones OP listed by far, but it falls further down the totem poll.

get back to me when they figure out what human eyes look like

not sexualizing children would be a step in the right direction as well

Honestly, I'm going to agree on that anime can be worth the recognition. But, my problem with it is the consistency. I find that anime has a serious issue with maintaining a serious tone. Often, they throw something completely silly, or random, in to appease the "typical" anime fan. While literature maintains its tone quite well.

Probably a troll, but all anime is shit except LoGH, which was only decent, but that's it..

Japan produces a lot of shit. I hate how emotionally flat the characters are, and ugh I feel stupid for saying this but they are so 2 dimensional. Basically autistic fucks like it, everyone in every anime acts like a 15 year old boy.

And anime fans in general seem to have little or no experience with other mediums which makes them easily impressed with anything that isn't written for someone in high school.

There is no anime on the level of for example Bergman or Kieslowski.

Also, you can tell what kind of people are attracted to anime if you go to /a/. We don't have doubles, endless copypasta threads, people acting like 10 year olds and other shit like that on /lit/.

>>2656122
Takahata comes close..

not OP, but do think he raises a good point. Something that has hamstrung proper discussion on this board for a long time is the unbridled elitism that runs rampant here. Whether its threads about our favourite drinks or pretending we all really enjoyed Camus and Hemingway because its 'great literature' and people told you you should enjoy it, all that happens is there's a maelstrom of self righteous ego masturbation at the expense of the 'plebs' because you think, having read a book or two, you're some kind of übermensch.

Other media can be just as deep as literature, visual metaphor can be just as powerful as verbal. DIfferent forms of expression have their own inherent flaws and strengths, and none of them is intrinsically better than the other.

On an unrelated note, OP, I though Evangelion was incredibly overrated. It used vague, barely understood references to Qabalah and simply poor storytelling and tried to pass it off as a great work of art. It was full of pseudo-philosophical exchanges about finding 'ones own truth' and 'ones own meaning' and tried to use a deliberately obscure and badly explained story to make everyone think they were confused because it was deep, not because it was simply poorly explained, or not explained at all.

Some anime is pretty darn good. Most anime is total shit (this holds true for most media, actually).

I think it is wrong to try and compare it in terms of "literary merit." It is a whole different medium from literature.

>>2656102
>mfw George Arliss

>>2656085
Why would you compare any of tha to camus, steinbeck, kirkregaard, and hemmingway?

I loved NGE and CB with all my heart but... but...

I am so depressed right now.

>>2656132
DONT FUCKING TALK ABOUT MY WAIFU THAT WAY YOU FUCKING BAKA GAIJIN

>enjoying anime for themes
>not enjoying anime because of its experimentation with traditional cinematic form
>not appreciating the development of anime from an aesthetic standpoint

You probably don't understand why Hemingway's really considered great, do you, pleb?

>>2656142
EVA tries to shortcut being deep (and falls flat on its face in the attempt) without having any actual depth. Just shit loads of red herrings to make you think it does. Meaningless religious iconography and simple, outdated Freudian psychology is not deep.

People are fucking morons. Despite Anno admitting that all the symbolism was bullshit, people like you still cling to belief that there is more meaning to it.

Anno used things in his anime just because it would make him seem smart. He's admitted to this as well. One example is how he titles an episode based on Kierkegaard (The Sickness Unto Death, And…), but the episode has NOTHING to do with his concepts.

>>2656132
Op wasn't saying they were the same mediums. S/he was wondering why serious anime couldn't be taken as seriously as reeliterature.

>>2656165
yeah, but he can still direct..

>>2656166

> reeliterature

Dude, seriously, give up, this isn't going to catch on.

>>2656183
Do the same five people log onto lit everyday? jesus

unless you watch obscure artsy animations like the works of kunio kato or koji yamamura, then, you don't know what you're talking about

>>2656085

Nobody talks about anime here, let alone makes fun of it. Why would we make fun of anime, this is 4chan, anime is one of the things we're all presumably open-minded about and/or interested in.

>>2656165
>People like me
Who are people like me?
I know that Anno put that in there because it looked cool.
What did you read in my post to make you think i didn't?

>>2656191
oh here we go

obscure and artsy =/= good

this is what i hate a bout /lit/, you cant formulate your own fucking ideas

youre just a bunch of fucking hipsters who think that just because something is obscure it automatically is also amazing.

>>2656085
Terrible trolling.

-2/10

>>2656204
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j99Ik5axI_U

>>2656085
Maybe FMA? Full Metal Alchemist is the only one on there with any kind of deeper message.

2/10 because I still miss Hughes.

>>2656214
yeah that was just stupid

that's it, i'm going to bed. this thread ruined my evening.

I should've saved this post last time I made it, because I'd like to think I've explained the ways artistic merit can be found in anime enough times before for it to have sunk in by now.

It boils down to the fact that all the shows OP listed are entertaining and popular, but not in any way different from a Disney movie. Cheap (but well executed) tricks and devices, casual exposure to the theme of "themes" itself... It's not there on the same level as a work of "serious" literature. Trained minds can spend decades or more discussing a truly groundbreaking work of literature, without ever rehashing or repeating the same arguments--some works just keep giving and giving, always with something else to be found. Popular anime aren't usually like that. What you see is pretty much what you get, putting good anime on about the same level as well executed, thoughtful fantasy or science fiction novels. A good sci-fi author can make philosophical arguments that blow his readers minds, but it never takes a decade of expert dialog to figure out what that argument is. If it did, that would defeat the point (for a work of that type--the kind intended to be appreciated and fully understood by every individual reader). There's nothing wrong with consuming those kinds of works (genre fiction or anime, or whatever), but there's not much to say about them.

(post too long, continuing momentarily)

>>2656261
Why don't you find your post in the archve?

http://fuuka.warosu.org/lit

>>2656261 (continued)

There are only a very tiny handful of anime titles that invite the same kind of dialogue as the works of literature with which /lit/ concerns itself. I personally feel that they do exist--I've completed maybe four or five hundred titles and I think I could name at least two or three (but certainly not much more than that) that really require serious academic scrutiny to decode. Of course, in reality, 90% or more of the discussion on /lit/ is not that kind of "serious dialogue" that scholars and enthusiasts carry out for the benefit of the most important of "landmark" works. /lit/ can be downright pulpy. So, with that having been taken into account, I think it's safe to say that there are even two or three dozen anime titles out there that could be discussed just as "intelligently" (or unintelligently...) as /lit/'s usual standard of discourse.

I could go into this more, or more specifically if anyone cares.

>>2656163
this fella's got it

>>2656280
tho change "cinematic" to "animated." they're pretty different genres

>>2656269
What two or three series did you find most conducive to discussion?

>>2656261
tldr; shits not good if it doesn't take a decade to interpret or if you're not sucking the auteur's dick for that long

>>2656290
inuyasha and samurai chanpuru

Texhnolyze, anyone?
Any themes aside, it's insanely pleasing to the eye.
The first episode has 3 sentences of dialogue, if I recall correctly.

It saddens me that more people don't know about Utena. All dem layers of symbolism...

>>2656312
>RGU

>not just a copy and paste of NGE

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1315

>>2656300
I didn't say not good, I said that people aren't going to talk about it as they talk about things that DO take that much talking to figure out. It's pretty obvious, really.

>>2656290
I'd like to spend more time combing through this to give you the most satisfying answer possible, but I'm afraid that if I don't post quickly I'll be drowned out by trolls like the first reply to your post... Anyway, I tend to think of these things in terms of arthorial (or, I guess, auteurial) canons.
One huge one would be the imaginings of Kunihiko Ikuhara, responsible for the simulacriatic classic of symbolism, Revolutionary Girl Utena, as well as the more recent and approachable Mawaru Penguindrum.
Another would definitely be the collected animated works of director Yoshitoshi ABe (orthographic emphasis, his), which include the haunting Serial Experiments Lain and Texhnolyze.
I think that the "Gainax Canon" would, as a whole, merit about as much worthy discussion as any of the above named works or (smaller) canons, in part because of the large number of (humanistically) interconnected works, and in part because of the allure of certain notable persons in Gainax's history. Hideaki Anno's works, including Evangelion (but with perhaps more emphasis on his directorial debut, Gunbuster), collectively would make up a large part of this. (But as I said, I would only compare this to the above if packaged as a whole supergroup of Gainax's most notable productions, understood through the metastory of the studio itself.)

>>2656312

i couldnt stand utena

yeah yeah symbolism blah blah, but fucking hell, it was so repetitive. hearing that ZETTAI UNMEI MOOKUSHIROKU or whatever EVERY SINGLE EPISODE and seeing the same recycled animation drove me fucking insane.

Also having buildings shaped like dicks isn't that deep, sorry.

>>2656350
>hearing that ZETTAI UNMEI MOOKUSHIROKU or whatever EVERY SINGLE EPISODE and seeing the same recycled animation drove me fucking insane.
Did you ever think that might be the point?

>>2656331
Shoujo Kakumei Utena is nothing like NGE unless you're comparing how they are both coming-of-age stories... and I guess you question just how real reality is based on the ending of both series, maybe. Utena plays around with Jungian elements and barely touches Biblical shit beyond visual aesthetic. Hell "Demian" is quoted in the elevator speech. I won't pretend a lot of it is weird as hell for fun... because it is. The director Ikuhara went even more overboard with his new series Mawaru Penguindrum. But hell, it'd take some effort to find an anime that more people have written analysis essays about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwud_XQGjhQ&feature=related

>>2656346
>I didn't say not good, I said that people aren't going to talk about it as they talk about things that DO take that much talking to figure out. It's pretty obvious, really.

So what, though? Just because critics who happen to find themselves in a position where people will look up to them and realign their tastes to match theirs, are obsessed with some book because it affects THEM in a completely subjective way, doesn't mean that we should just ignore other works that also have important things to say about humanity, or consider them lesser than the ones high school teachers don't shove down your throat.

>>2656353

It wasn't the 'point', the series had a notoriously low budget.

Hey OP, I'm down with your opinion of anime and your selection.

Incidentally, can you recommend me a good starting text for Kierkegaard?

>>2656356
i only get 76 results in google scholar

>>2656346

Thanks for the reply, I've had most of those on my enormous list of stuff to watch eventually (I've not watched much anime; of the ones you mentioned I have only seen NGE).

I might make an effort to prioritize those few (since I didn't realize how utterly time consuming watching anime is until I started doing so...seriously where do people find the time to watch hundreds of series)

>>2656350
To have that incredibly beautiful animation the rest of the time, recycled footage has to happen unless an anime has an insane budget. I've always been more bothered by recycled duel footage. Juri and Mikage share a lot of the same fighting shots.

I digress. Any series that gives you different perspectives on it each time you watch it definitely has a lot of depth.

>>2656371

nicely

>>2656361
You're arguing for something I'm not even talking about. The original question (as I answered it) was "Why don't you guys talk about popular anime I like more often?" I explained "Most works don't invite more than a few sentences of high level analytically discussion, so naturally the ones that do are the ones that analysts will discuss perennially."

I even went out of my way to say that I don't disapprove or look down on the consumption of less "intensive" works, and I certainly didn't imply that they were less important.

>>2656383
I'm not necessarily talking published academic essays... though I've written a huge one myself for a tech. writing course as an undergrad, but never published it formally. Go to ohtori.nu as a starting point and see how much effort fans put forth to understand each little nuance... because Ikuhara can be just as subtle as he is outrageous.

>Elfen Lied, Neon Genesis Evangelion, maybe Fullmetal Alchemist, and Cowboy Bebop
>comparable to some literary classics
>similar to Steinbeck's, Camus's, Kiekegard's, Hemingway

I'm out

fuck this gay earth

>>2656428
You won't be missed.

>>2656122
>We don't have doubles

Are you sure about that?

>>2656437
i'll miss him

Hey OP

Explain how GO GO SENGEN explores ideas relevant to the human condition such as absurdism, stoicism, cynicism, intolerance, hysteria, fate, free will, etc.

jk lol you can't do it because your shitty chinese writers aint got shit on mah niggas Miller n Hemingway n Sophocles

PS high school social anxiety doesnt count

>>2656507
What is Go Go Sengen? I have never heard of that anime. Sounds interesting. Can you post a link to the 'wiki?

>>2656085
>Kiekegard
the fuck?

OP, you can't even figure out which Pink Floyd album is the best, why should we care what you have to say about the worth of literature in comparison to a pop culture throwaway like anime?

Seriously, if you've read the works of Hemingway and Camus and think there's just as much intellectual and emotional depth in your favorite tv shows/comix than you've given those authors such a shallow reading that you owe their corpses an apology if you ever expect them to return to the void in peace. Jesus Christ.

>>2656085
> They all have important messages about humanity
This is the same kind of faggotry that "video game is high art" guys try to shove on us.

Again, for the dumbfucks:
THE MESSAGE IS UTTERLY MEANINGLESS IS THE EXECUTION IS FLAT AND BORING.

Existential issues are awesome and interesting, but not when a 12 years old whino has them inside a giant robot that's organic and kills stuff with a big robot-knife.
Transhumanism is an interesting concept as well, but again, not when it refers to ROBOT ARMS, CAN JUMP REALLY HIGH NOW LOLO SUPERROBOTO xD.

And the worst sin of them all is that there is no variation. Okay, okay, your video game is about killing zombies and debating the fatalistic nature of humanity. How about a video game (or an anime) that just talks about the later without ridiculous robots and stuff?
How about you send important messages about humanity from a cab and its driver, not just from cockpits of various mechas and their two-dimensional pilots.

>Hey /lit/, I've watched 4 shows that were on Adult Swim a few years ago and I really think you should give more anime a try!

No, OP, you should, if you're going to talk about analyzing the devices and themes on par with how literature is analyzed.

>>2656619
Hilariously, you probably picked the worst example to prove OP "wrong" since there is a rather popular anime series about a cab driver and several different passengers he has.

>>2656626
Yeah, well anime is not exactly "bad" as far as I'm concerned. It's basically an animated movie with different style.
A video game about a taxi-guy and his daily life will most-likely never exist. Mafia had a day of a taximetrist pointed out, then it turned into "kill all those mafiosso just because"

I criticized the shounen-kind of anime that OP is into, because it hits closer to what video games are.
what's this taxi anime that you're speaking off? does it involve demons and robots and stuff?

>2012
>reading books

Get with the times you hipster faggots

Part of me actually wants to address some of the points made in this thread and defend anime a little, but there's no point. The OP is a troll and you people are responding to it seriously anyway.

>>2656651
Troll or not, there are people like him who think so.

>>2656619
Uh, I don't think you quite understand the point that "games are art" people are trying to get across, and seeing that I am one, I think I can help you out here. We're not saying that current games are examples of high art, we're saying that they CAN be high art. Gaming is a very young, very budding artistic medium that's making strides in all directions, and just because Deus Ex doesn't tickle your fancy means nothing when there are plenty of other games that get across their points without needing any special, pandering delivery.

Limbo, for instance, tells a story through minimalistic gameplay, and it simply wouldn't work in a non-interactive medium in that the deaths that the player inevitably experiences, the tedium of avoiding a trap and then dying moments later, mirrors the horror of truly being stuck in, well, Limbo.

It's a simple example but a great one, and we can have more of that shit, with or without the giant robots you so love, when gaming finally comes into its own.

>>2656641
Criticizing all anime because of some Shonen titles is like saying you shouldn't read ever because Captain Underpants is too lowbrow, though!

The taxi bit actually gives away a bit of the twist in the end, but I still think it's worth watching. It has mild sci-fi elements, in that there are slightly more advanced cell phones and AI programs than we have right now, but that's it. The wiki contains spoilers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_of_the_East

>>2656669
> On Monday, November 22, 2010, ten missiles strike against uninhabited areas of Japan, claiming no victims. This apparent terrorist act is referred to as "Careless Monday" and disregarded by most people. The series begins three months later, on Sunday, February 13, 2011, when a young Japanese woman named Saki Morimi visits Washington D.C. as part of her graduation trip. When she gets into trouble, a mysterious Japanese man, who introduces himself as Akira Takizawa, helps her through it. The man appears to have no memory and is completely naked, carrying only a gun and a cell phone charged with ¥8.2 billion in digital money. While they are coming back to Japan, they learn that a new missile has hit their country.
See? This is what I'm talking about, and it seems to get more ridiculous further on.

>>2656678
So do you only go for realism in literature then?

The ridiculous has its place. Japan seems to use it more (though less than it's reputation would suggest).

>>2656678
In part two, "Un Perm' au Casino Hermann Goering", Slothrop is studied covertly and sent away by superiors in mysterious circumstances to the Hermann Göring casino in recently liberated France, in which almost the entirety of Part Two takes place. There he learns of a rocket, with the irregular serial number 00000 (Slothrop comments that the numbering system doesn't allow for four zeroes in one serial, let alone five), and a component called the S-Gerät (short for Schwarzgerät, which translates to black device) which is made out of the hitherto unknown plastic Imipolex G. Several companions suddenly disappear or re-appear after extended amounts of time, including the two guards watching Slothrop and Katje. It is hinted at that Slothrop's prescience of rocket hits is due to being conditioned as an infant by the creator of Imipolex G, Laszlo Jamf. Later, the reality of this story is called into question in a similar fashion as the existence of Slothrop's original sexual exploits were. After getting this information, Slothrop escapes from the casino into the coalescing post-war wasteland of Europe, "The Zone", searching for the 00000 and S-Gerät. In the closing of Part Two, Katje is revealed to be safe in England, enjoying a day at the beach with Roger Mexico and Jessica, as well as Pointsman, who is in charge of Slothrop's furtive supervision

>>2656678
I'm just saying it was about a taxi driver, not that it's the most pure-realism-super-serious shit I've ever watched. People who say there's no variety in the medium or that they are universally fantastical/poorly executed have blinders on, even if, in general, it's not As I lay Dying.

>>2656659
But it's still a video game about being chased by giant spiders. Compare that to Divine Comedy. Even if you remove all the symbolism and the teaching such a book gives you, you still have the story of a scholar through hell, purgatory and paradise. And it doesn't exactly involve killing stuff with huge weapons, or running away from huge stuff trying to kill you.

And I don't think that video games are in its infancy. In fact, I may as well contradict myself by mentioning adventure games, which were the closest to developing actual variation and emotion to their storylines (more than just OH SHIT EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND YOU CAN DIE OMG) but which sadly died as an inspiring genre.
And they died (I'm aware of the "revival" of AGs, I'm not too enthusiastic about it though) because they oppose the strict dogma of video games.

Which is also why I don't think that vidya will reach that point where it's going to be simple and to the point.
Again, I'm not saying that ridiculuous shit shouldn't exist. I'm just saying that for every Avengers and Transformers, we have Being Flynn and Detachment .

>>2656122
>LoGH
>best anime

shit taste holy shit

kill yourself tripfiend

I don't even like anime, but I can honestly say to ANYBODY who thinks the fantastical has no place in literature can politely go fuck themselves.

What about the game Shogun 2, or all the other Total War games? A game that prides itself in historical accuracy and strategy, a game about battles and pride and honor and politics. Where's the ridiculous here? The frivolous? The meaningless? It's certainly not anywhere where I can see it.

>>2656713
what does that have to do with anything

>>2656705
But it's not. It's not at all. There's a spider early on, but very little of it ever has to do with chasing or really, anything overly horrifying. Even his death is anticlimactic and silent, while also characteristically brutal.

One thing I find really bothersome about you "GAMES CAN NEVER BE ART" type people is that you judge games to the standards of entirely different mediums. Very rarely can movies have the same descriptive depth or pace of a book without being long-winded or poorly paced, and very rarely can books have the visual or human-acted impact of a well-shot movie.

So, for games, what do you really want from them? Games are an amazing medium that can combine the visual starkness and acting of film ALONGSIDE interactivity, and yet this is somehow a bad thing? Something that can never own up to its place in artistry?

Bah, what a load of shit.

>>2656721
> GAMES CAN NEVER BE ART
I didn't say that. Games are art just like toys and dancing and arhitecture is art.
What I'm saying is that video games are not good narrative art.
> you judge games to the standards of entirely different mediums
But it's such a big standard that it seems retarded to alright ignore it.
A movie cannot have the same depth or pace as a book, true. But a movie can be about a guy who has a stuttering problem (and is a king) just like a book.
Video games cannot into normalcy, can't into subjects that are not exciting and that lacks typical challenges. That means basically ignoring 95% (or more) of the literature and cinema that won awards and was highly enjoyed by critics. Video games can't seem to do anything that's not an action, a thriller or a horror in genre.

>>2656721

Nice post, but you're wasting your time. C/lit/s are generally reactionary old men in the body of teenage aspies and their idea of revolutionary art is something James Joyce wrote a hundred years ago.

Trying to educate them in the ways of 21st century art is like being a pubic hair on a toilet seat - sooner or later you will get pissed off.

games are for having fun

otherwise they're either dumbed-down movies or dumbed-down books

deal with it fatasses

Maybe we could just talk about Japanese literature instead? That could be fun. Which translation of The Tale of the Heike is considered the best? I've always wanted to read it, but there seem to be quite a few translations.

>>2656738
That's where you're wrong. Games CAN be good narrative art, and just because they're currently limited by the almighty dollar and what sells, doesn't mean they can't achieve what they intend to do. Look up "Every Day the Same Dream" and play it throught. It's short, repetitive, and not exactly "fun", but it gets across a biting point of repetition and routine and the life of a working man just as well as a 100-page novella can. You just have to look between the lines and examine what YOUR interaction means.

Funny you mention horror, I think gaming is by far the best genre for that. I've been more horrified at games like Amnesia and Silent Hill 2 than any book in Lovecraft's or Poe's catalogs combined.

Horror itself, as a genre, doesn't lend itself well to heavy narrative form either, hence, why almost every classic of horror is a novella.

>>2656757

>japanese
>literature

pick one and only one.

>>2656753
Most movies and books are for having fun, too.
Again, just because most CURRENT games are dumb shit for 4th graders means absolutely nothing about their stance as an artistic medium. Look at Every Day the Same Dream, like that guy up there recommended. Not fun, but meaningful and simple, and in a way, beautiful.

Also, look at Today I Die. Another short browser game that will utterly warp your perspective of what games can be.

>>2656768
You have made me sad beyond measure.

>>2656738

>Braid
>Dear Esther

Games can definitely have a great narrative. The only problem is that video games are still a young art.

>>2656757
The McCullough is the best and I think the only full translation. Have fun with it.

>>2656784

Awww. I didn't mean to. I'm sorry.

>>2656800
I'll survive.

>>0
Really? Those two? The ONLY art game I recommend is The Passage. And personally, I would like art games to spin off and get their own medium. I'm okay with playing Street Fighter an not having Ebert take me seriously. I never got what is so damning about just enjoying a video game or anime with a stupid plot as long as it is fun. I can do both and still read and analyze Steinbeck or Fitzgerald.

>>2656768

Why do people respond to obvious trolling?

>>2656766
>just as well as a 100-page novella can

Yeah... No... That game was a piece of shit. The music was grating, but that might have been the point. Maybe not though, because I wouldn't consider it drab or anything. It was just an uninteresting ditty; I would have created something else considering the tired message...

anime is not literature

>>2656810

You should respect the authorised forces of law and order. The police are there to protect and serve you.

>>2656131
>barely understood references to Qabalah
>still caught up in religious reference in Eva
>2012
Unfortunately, you approach the show the wrong way, as many had.

>>2656827

If I had a gun, I wouldn't need the police.

>>2656869
Then go get one.

NGE, while although one of my favorite animes, is still a clusterfuck of teenage angst and fake biblical allusions.

Lain and Kino's Journey are better.

>>2656819
No one is arguing that video games aren't "fun". I understand that you can play Street Fighter and still appreciate good literature.

The daft and insolent opinion most of /lit/ treats with ire is that video games (or anime) have the same sort of emotional or intellectual depth contained in literature. I know Street Fighter is fun, but do its themes stir in you the morbidity of human mortality and our position in a violent, furious and ultimately empty world as does the prose and plot of Blood Meridian?

Of course not. Video games are games and anime is pulp. They are not comparable to literature and to come to a board dedicated to that very pursuit and argue that a cartoon has just as much substance as the most substantial and beautiful works of our most endeared and revered authors and not expect a violent backlash betrays a terrible ignorance and, frankly, is very insulting.

So play games and watch anime if it pleases you, but for God's sake don't try to make inane connections between pulp and art.

>>2656869

Because you have the police, you don't need a gun.

>>0
I'm not, I agree with you. My question was unclear, but more directed towards those that believe its worth our time to try and do these things. If you like anime, then why not like anime. Why are there those who desperately seek approval for their hobbies?

No one is arguing that picture shows aren't "fun". I understand that you can watch Charlie Chaplin and still appreciate good literature.

The daft and insolent opinion most of /lit/ treats with ire is that picture shows (or movies) have the same sort of emotional or intellectual depth contained in literature. I know Chaplin is fun, but do its themes stir in you the morbidity of human mortality and our position in a violent, furious and ultimately empty world as does the prose and plot of Blood Meridian?

Of course not. Picture shows are shows and movies are pulp. They are not comparable to literature and to come to a board dedicated to that very pursuit and argue that a movie has just as much substance as the most substantial and beautiful works of our most endeared and revered authors and not expect a violent backlash betrays a terrible ignorance and, frankly, is very insulting.

So play games and watch movies if it pleases you, but for God's sake don't try to make inane connections between pulp and art.

Madoka

>>2656889

>I know Chaplin is fun, but do its themes stir in you the morbidity of human mortality and our position in a violent, furious and ultimately empty world as does the prose and plot of Blood Meridian?


Have you even seen The Great Dictator, or The Kid? I bet you've never even seen them shown at the correct speed.

>thinking silent movies are all custard pies and no narrative.

>>2656892
I'll admit I fucked up my example there.

However, I still think that video games have a very great potential as an artistic medium. Film gave motion to previously static frames and added another layer to the experience--sound. Games can take static films and add interactivity, as well as the sense of touch.

The problem right now is that creating a game demands a fair amount of technical skill as well as the ability to mesh together story (literature), graphics (film), sound (music), as well as the actual mechanics and control of the entire system.

>>2656910

Fair enough, but I think your argument

>Picture shows are shows and movies are pulp. They are not comparable to literature

Is also completely unfair. Movies occupied the same niche in the late 20th century as novels did in the late 19th - they were the dominant medium of art for the middle classes. The same people sitting at a dinner party in Islington or Brooklyn circa 2012 talking about Melancholia or The Artist would have been talking about Henry James or Emile Zola in 1912.

tl;dr - there's no superiority of medium, only the art. And there's no superiority of art

>>2656877
Lain doesn't make any more sense than NGE. They both just pretentious artsy anime that try very hard to be deep.

>>2656931
I know, I just like Lain better. Maybe its just the fact that I waste less time watching it and don't have to watch a soul sucking movie attached to it. Or maybe its because Lain is kawaii as fuck.

>>2656910
I agree. Literature is just one dimension (writing), whereas games could have up to three dimensions (writing, music, and graphics), making more expressive as a medium. The problem isn't the skill that's required to produce a high brow product, but it's just that most people aren't into deep shit.

I was just a bit irked that many of you guys didn't realize that anime is almost entirely for entertainment (Like most media), but then I saw your poetry thread, which is like a gathering of 16-year-old fatties whining about stupid shit in badly-worded free form verse, which made me smile.

You guys are like the liberal arts board of 4chan university-you think you're important, for whatever reason, but you're really not.

>>2656951
your mistake is assuming that every regular poster supports every thread save yours

>>2656951
Yasuna's hand is so poorly drawn in that pic.

>>2656954

I'm not the OP of the thread, but please, continue to believe whatever you want to make yourself feel better.

For the anime: Grave of Fireflies.

It's not deep in a philosophical sense, but it's picture of humanity and emotional impact I have no problem putting on an even level classic literature.

For games, I think a lot of the confusion comes from this sentiment:
>What I'm saying is that video games are not good narrative art.

Of course not, because video games are narration, they're interactive. The emotions stimulated (and what is art if not something that stimulates emotion?) nd the experiences in playing a game will never be the same as reading a book because you are not passive. You aren't a secret, silent witness to events unfolding (unless it's a MGS game - fuck, I think 4 had an hour of cutscene for every minute of gameplay) but rather the perpetrator of events.

I once heard a definition for a game a "a series of interesting choices." When games come into their maturity - it will be the emotions evoked by those choices that will be their artistic definition. Because I'll say right now that no picture, no movie, and no book has ever gotten me so worked up as a game - video or otherwise (yay board games!) - so that it's all I can think about and it won't leave me alone until I can resolve and conquer whatever mechanic is blocking me.

Elfen Lied?

Are you 16?

>>2656931
2deep4u

>>2656085
anime is /tv/. why are you so stupid?

>>2657219
>anime is /tv/. why are you so stupid?
And all this time I thought anime was /a/ - the anime board, how foolish I have been.

LoGH was better then the novel.

I'd argue Monster was too

Yeah, LoGH was good.

I'd also justify my favorite, Haibane Renmei.