/lit/ - Literature

what is this? some kind of edgy interpretation of goffman?

>I have an inability to mute people

i use 'sage' and 'hide thread'. download the 4chan extension.

I don't know who Goffman is. I was just "sharing my feelings" from interactions in "the real world" I experienced yesterday.

Society can only exist because of deception. The only alternative is basically taking up the Cynic robe and staff. If you are willing to make such a sacrifice for authenticity that is great. I'd rather trick my way through life with the rest of them.

You talk about facilitating others' stupidy, I'd rather call it helping myself to what I want in spite of them. You should look upon deception as something you do for your own benefit, not for theirs. Then it can become a quite interesting game.

>>2551298
well lit isnt a place for diary entries.
hurrdurr im so smart everybody stupid sheeps

>>2551305

I hate deception and lying. It doesn't only halt progress, but enables regress. I see it as a sickness to take part in a synthetic reality.

>>2551309

Ya, but my writing is better than that of Twilight or Hunger Games, so I feel justified in sharing. The fact my writing hasn't been committed to print by a publisher is arbitrary and simply a matter of semantics.

>>2551328
You faggot. You unconscionable faggot.

>>2551338

LOL. Does that mean you think Suzanne Collins is a superior writer to me?

>>2551319
Deception trains cunning and intelligence. The ability to concious deception is even a way to measure intelligence in animals. It enables progress. A society of honest people goes nowhere. It would also be artless.

There's also no underlying truth which is somehow nobler than all these little untruths. The lie is more important to mental health and physical health for both the individual and humanity at large. It's also infinitely more interesting.

And it's not like we're alone in it. Almost all of life practices deception. We are just very good at it. Learn to embrace it.

>>2551341
>dat straw man

fuck off, m8.

>>2551340

1) Deception doesn't not train intelligence, I assure you. It is not as if deception will have some dramatic effect on neurogenesis and neuroplasticity. Deception trains cunning, yes, but that's the same as saying deception trains deception.
2) Ability to deceive is surely a way to measure intelligence, but that shouldn't be conflated with it being a necessary attribute and practice among intelligent people.
3) Lies do not enable progress, but just a dynamic where an illusion of progress can be observed. A society of honest people would go nowhere, want to know why? Because they would have achieved the highest level of existence, there would be no further progress to achieve, and that is obviously ideal. Yes, an honest society would be artless, but I'll trade in my art for sanity and morality.
4) There ABSOLUTELY is an underlying objective truth to all of reality. Lies are an illusion which confuse people and cause them to disconnect from themselves and one another; the truth unites people effortlessly. Lies are certainly not more conducive to physical and mental well-being--this statement is just an exaggeration on your part, and you know it. I will never embrace lies.

>>2551340

EDITED:
1) Deception doesn't train intelligence, I assure you. It is not as if deception will have some dramatic effect on neurogenesis and neuroplasticity. Deception trains cunning, yes, but that's the same as saying deception trains deception.
2) Ability to deceive is surely a way to measure intelligence, but that shouldn't be conflated with it being a necessary attribute and practice among intelligent people.
3) Lies do not enable progress, but just a dynamic where an illusion of progress can be observed. A society of honest people would go nowhere, want to know why? Because they would have achieved the highest level of existence, there would be no further progress to achieve, and that is obviously ideal. Yes, an honest society would be artless, but I'll trade in my art for sanity and morality.
4) There ABSOLUTELY is an underlying objective truth to all of reality. Lies are an illusion which confuse people and cause them to disconnect from themselves and one another; the truth unites people effortlessly. Lies are certainly not more conducive to physical and mental well-being--this statement is just an exaggeration on your part, and you know it. I will never embrace lies.

I also really wanted someone to say Suzanne Collins has superior literary skill to me. I was looking forward to that.

I can honestly say that Suzanne Collins is a better writer than you.

>>2551380

LOL. Thank you. I needed a laugh.

Verdict on OP: Can't write, can't think; no discernible talent. Seriously though, what are you like 16?

>>2551393

Verdict on you: boring, middling instantiation of antisocial mediocrity.

>>2551362
1) You're right, that was rather sloppy use of phrasing on my behalf. It does develop a myriad of skills though.

2) An honest person wouldn't make it through his first birthday unscathed. The only place for an honest person is either the streets, the madhouse or prison. Unless of course you are someone who's inner workings seamlessly connect to the demands of society, which is practically impossible.

3) Your level of development at the moment is the result of thousands of years of deception and manipulation. Without this you would be less than a tribesman. Sanity and morality would be nowhere to be found. Even a monkey society isn't possible without deception, for example the feigning of sincere subordinance when all you do is bide your time until you gain a more advantaged position. Humanity wouldn't even have developed without the skill of stealth in hunting, the very basis of which is deception, namely feigning that you aren't where you are. Deception is such a basic attribute of life that the proposed absence of it would be merely absurd. Butterflies would go extinct. Tigers would starve. Wolf packs would dismantle. The only advantages aside from deception are pure strength and speed. Would you rather have a world based on that? It would be infinitely less complex and sophisticated. It would be a bunch of huge fuckers chasing eachother, like dinosaurs on an vast plain.

4)

>There ABSOLUTELY is an underlying objective truth to all of reality. Lies are an illusion which confuse people and cause them to disconnect from themselves and one another; the truth unites people effortlessly

Seriously? The truth will set us free into a world of rainbows and ponies, vulcano's erupting with love and sweets and forgiveness flowing down the riverbeds?

>>2551424

3) I'm not talking about deception among animals or even deception between humans and animals. I'm simply talking about human interaction. Your idea of what a world without deception would look like seems to come from an anthropologist's perspective. I imagine simply an honest society where people don't develop characters and affectations that are so clearly far removed from the inherent nature of the mind.
4) No, that is not what I'm speaking of. There is universal truth; without it, reality would be unable to cohere physically.

>>2551433
A society lacking pretense? Such a society simply can't be. If only for the working man who is no longer able to disguise his desire to rape and impregnate most of his female coworkers with joviality. The employee could no longer feign respect for his boss and would be obliged not to hide his resentment. People wouldn't even get hired, job interviews would become impossible. Families would disintegrate. The economy would collapse.

Your ideals are not for this world, it would require a whole different species. You can't expect rakish monkeys to act like angels. You would just as easily convince a rattlesnake to hunt in a more honourable manner than using that cowardly poison.

>>2551459

It is possible among the most intelligent and genuine people--or simply the most unaffected people. It's been done before in the East.

>>2551466
Please elaborate. Also, don't name people who were beggars, I've already stated that honesty can be an option for the homeless, mad and criminal.

>>2551472

Grrr, I have to leave for a doctor's appt. soon, but okay: it is possible through qi gong meditation to achieve Zen, which is not simply a concept but an actual state of being, and with Zen one inherently cares about others and has no desire to lie or deceive. It is also possible among people with Asperger's who value the truth and resist the synthetic nature of society. In China, it used to be that families would simply take care of one another, and that villages would take care of one another, there was no written law, just an understood code of morality and respect. Among such a society, those who choose to lie and deceive are in the minority, they are outcasts, and so even people who don't have Asperger's or who haven't achieved Zen, simply normal, humble people, gravitated towards an honest existence. I have to go now but I would like to ask: Why do you intelligent people side with the idiots? Your counterarguments to my statement are clearly substantial and the product of honest cognition, so why do you play their game? Why do you let them diminish your potential? They should be living up to your standards; you shouldn't be bringing yourselves down to theirs. Life is not to be played like a game--with your identity as a finite resource which terminates at death, why do you squander your true self on idiots? I propose every intelligent and sensitive person stop pretending, stop playing a game invented to handicap your ability. I will never sacrifice truth for comfort; I ask you to do the same.

>>2551513
You perceive those societies as more utopian than they were. They had merchants and bureaucrats and armies. They had to of course, because a society that doesn't simply gets overrun by others. When it comes down to it, individuals and peoples who don't make use of the art of deception are subjected to the superior might of those who do.

I hold life and vitality higher than truth. I would rather flourish with deception than perish without it. So does everyone who has to hold a job or wishes to survive amongst more powerful entities. Deception is one of the most important forms of adaptability. Truth has only value as a means to a goal, I don't perceive factuality as something holy in itself.

Also, the Zen sect is notorious for being associated with nationalism and imperialism. It has been one of the most amoral and militaristic subdivisions of Buddhism. And with good reason, I say. It is because of this adaptability to different outlooks and circumstances that it has survived and has been adopted by and won the support of the warrior casts. It flourished because it has been able to convince those in power of its merit. Those are the ways of the world, and everything that wishes to thrive has to come to terms with it. Religions may have been founded by saints, but they were spread and kept alive by shrewd diplomats and Machiavellian thinkers.

Pic related. They are Sōhei, warrior monks of feudal Japan, who used to fight competing Buddhist sects, among other things.

>>2551726
The societies of which I speak had no bureaucrats and armies. Perhaps you are confusing Japan with China. Those who stepped out of line in ancient China were dealt with by a benign and powerful individual. The art of deception only works on those foolish enough to buy into it. If you see the truth, you are not forced to play the game--you can remain on sidelines and retain your dignity and humanity. You see vitality and flourishing as opposed to truth when this is not the case at all. What has happened is you have been brainwashed by The Matrix, and you can only think in the terms it has presented to you. The highest form of vitality and flourishing is truth. Stop thinking in terms of society, as if it as natural a construct as the human form--start thinking in terms of yourself, apart from arbitrary systems of connection, e.g., politics, economics. I am not speaking of the Zen sect of Buddhism--I am speaking of actual Zen. What the people who CLAIM to be Zen are doing right now and have done is irrelevant: what's significant is the potential of each individual to achieve Zen and see truth.

>>2551922
There have never been societies without warring. Even apes do it. Also, Zen came to China roughly in the sixth century AD, during a time of civil war and political chaos.

Where would you get the idea of some utopian ancient China with a benevolent ruler? There's no indication to believe that there has ever been such a thing. The whole Golden Age thing is a rather dated and naive idea.

>>2552131

I see, so you 1) Lived in ancient China, and 2) checked with every town and village throughout China. Yes, of course you did.

>>2552143
So you are free to pull the existence of some sort of utopia out of your sleeve, while my historically sound claims are subject to scepticism?

As far as I know there is no reason to believe your claims. While my claims that feudal China was no better than the rest of the world is highly probable.

There might have been some idyllic peaceful villages in a lot of places, but those would have been overrun fairly quickly as stated in a former post of mine. Such places are sitting ducks and perish quickly, therefore making their methods obviously inferior as they can't maintain existence. Naivety never lasts long.

Are you sure you aren't trolling me?

>>2552167

My view comes from a tai chi master who had taken part in the oral tradition of keeping the truth in tact; your view comes from Wikipedia.

>>2552409
Ah yes, the word of mouth within some folk religious tradition must surely be put above historical research.

Remembers me of the time I was talking about the pleistocene and someone refuted me by telling his preacher told him the world is only 6000 years old.

>>2552417

some folk religious tradition? Is that what you think Tai Ch'i is? Perhaps you should head back over to Wikipedia.

>>2552419
Don't listen to this guy other guy, he was the same one trolling /lit/ a while back that he could achieve enlightenment by doing tai chi and when people scoffed him he got very angry about it. When confronted with this, he said that well, he wasn't enlightened at the moment, but could easily be so again.

>>2551922

>no armies.

This look like what the "anti-violence" groups of the world believe, that "enlightened" people would never resort to violence or even deception.
It would be maybe, an ideal truth in a homogenous society of wealthy people with equal education. It is one of those ideas that only works if everyone involved chooses to believe it … and the first person to reject the idea will dominate, kill or enslave the others.

The same goes wirh deception and lying, only violence can stop violence, only those who kowns how the game of "deception" works can protect themselves against deception.

The rest is just a dream.

>>2552431

Yup, that's all true, except we were talking about qi gong, not tai chi, and I wasn't trolling. 2 people ended up emailing me, and I provided them instructions for meditation for free.

>>2552435

Incorrect.

>>2552435
Yes. This.

Of course he will respond to this saying that those who were violent and deceptive weren't truly enlightened but that enlightened people did exist in some magical place in the Orient but was never included in any form of history.

OP IS:
- 16 year old.
- under the mistaken impression that he is somehow special.
- a faggot.

>>2552445

Since when did you first start believing that history isn't edited by those in power to deceive foolish people?

>>2552437
>2 people ended up emailing me, and I provided them instructions for meditation for free.

Wow, that's generous. Are they enlightened too now?

>>2552452
So we can't really know anything of the past, therefore we most assume the existence of Chinaman peasant yoga utopia?

>>2552449

I like how 16 years old is the going age of insult on here. It's completely arbitrary yet entirely uniform, like some secret meeting was held in the early days of 4chan where you all agreed that 16 is indeed a stupid age. I'm not special so much as open-minded; I don't believe what others tell me: I experience for myself and live by the scientific method. And no, not a faggot--but I admire your imaginative capacity.

>>2552455

No, they are not enlightened. As far as I know, the meditation was too difficult for them. Moreover, it takes at least a couple of years of fairly regular practice to truly experience Zen.

>>2552466
>denies thinking that he is special
>denies being a faggot
>doesn't deny being sixteen years old but gets all vague about it

underage b& reported hidden ignored

>>2552471
Does experiencing zen makes one incapable of noticing being mocked?

>>2552477

LOL. You're getting quite intense over nothing. Maybe you should try meditation? Also, formal declaration: I'm not 16. I hope you can breathe a little easier now.

>>2552487
>doesn't deny being underage

b&

>>2552486

Does not experiencing Zen make one unable to recognize a mature response in spite of an immature audience?

>>2552491

That all sounds like a wordy excuse for having too big and fragile an ego to deal with other people without contempt

>>2552636
>clearly hasn't achieved zen by means of Chinese aerobics

How many of you have actually met with a Tai Chi master? What about a Qi Gong master? None of you. This isn't to insult or mock you; this is simply to point out that you're arguing from complete ignorance. Amazing things are possible through true meditation (Tai Chi is moving meditation); search YouTube and see for yourself. And no, I am not basing my knowledge on YouTube... and if you're really interested in experiencing the truth for yourself, go on thetaobums.com and simply start a thread asking for the name of a master in your area--a lot of people on there are idiots, be warned, so you will have to use common sense to filter out fact from fiction. Meet with a master or call him on the phone, and ask if he can demonstrate the transference of energy onto you. I'm not asking you to pursue this to legitimize my own knowledge the way religious people do; I simply want you people to have access to the truth--I feel it's unfair the truth has been kept from us and I'm doing my best to counteract the injustice. That's all. I've tried my best to help.

>>2552681
If he can transfer energy to you. Can he also take energy from you?

>>2552694

Absolutely. Not to worry though, a master would likely have no interest in your uncultivated energy. Meditation is a process of acquiring energy. Through Tai Chi, one acquires this energy very slowly, and circulates or "flows" it through the body. The sensation, to the degree I have experienced, ranges from slight tingling to electricity to what I can only describe as a magnetic weight, like an energetic heaviness. Sitting meditation acquires energy much more intensely. This is why any true Tai Chi master also supplements his practice with a form of sitting meditation. I have also seen a form of Qi Gong meditation that involves standing and breathing in and out through random parts of the body. I should also mention that with Qi Meditation, once you get down the "mechanism" for pumping chi throughout your body, you can do it in any position, at any time, in any situation. Would you like me to email you Qi Gong instructions? On the house, of course.

Edit: The form of Qi Gong I used to achieve Zen can be done in any position, at any time, in any place. This is not so for other forms of Qi Gong, like the one with the random breathing I described.

>>2552722
ever heard of energy vampires? People who just zap your energy. Can this qi gong thing stop them from doing that? Can you become like a master of energy?

>>2552741

Umm, I have not heard of energy vampires, and I wonder if you are mocking me now, but yes, through Qi Gong, when you become a master, you become a master of energy. Qi is energy. A Qi Gong master can manipulate energy in ways I hesitate to state here because I don't wish to be ridiculed. Imagine the infinite nature of possibility of energy. Imagine what is possible when machines harness this energy. Now consider how the human mind is far more sophisticated than the computers in any of these machines. Through meditation, amazing things are possible. I'm not asking anyone to drop their current beliefs and trust a random person over the internet. But just give me the benefit of the doubt and pursue an investigation on your own. You will be glad you did.

>>2552681
>>2552694
>>2552722
>>2552729
>>2552741
>>2552784

>>2552793

No idea who that is in the picture, but I'm sure that's an insult. Anyway, I shared quite a bit. I hope someone gives it a measure of consideration.

>>2552800
What is this energy and how are you sure you just aren't experiencing psychological changes from your meditation practices instead of achieving some esoteric higher plane?

>>2551305
What's the point, lulz?

>>2552471
Two years of practice just for a placebo effect

>>2553594
This

Also, what do the Buddhist mean by "enlightenment" anyway? All I know is that in a /sci/ sense the word just means gaining more knowledge and an unbiased/rational perspective.

Zen Bump

>>2552840

Psychological changes do not create feelings of electricity so strong that you jump and laugh at the pain. These feelings are not insubstantial, they do not require any generosity on the part of the practitioner for their identity to be established. The same goes for enlightenment. You can be a complete prick, act however you want, and naturally throughout meditation, without any moral effort or coaxing on the practitioner's part, you will become loving and compassionate as naturally as you breathe. My definition for enlightenment: infinite compassion and infinite understanding through an ineffable universal connection—the feeling is identical to how you may have heard God described (the nice one). Zero sadness, zero anger, zero fear—regardless of your environment. That is Zen, that is enlightenment. I know this is not some delusional psychology because as one's practice fades, so does the feeling. However, I heard Buddha had the same problem, was vexed by the temporary nature of Zen, but then solved it finally by meditating for 3 days straight--this is how he achieved permanent Zen. I have never meditated close to this long, so I can only believe in this possibility through faith based on my experience.

>>2553594

It is no placebo effect. If you tried meditating 5-10 minutes every day for 1-2 weeks, you would get the slightest taste of what I'm trying to impress upon you. As I've been sharing meditation instructions with people though, I've found that most aren't skilled enough to be successful with it. I'm not sure why as I have only been communicating with them over the internet. Perhaps it's just a matter of sensitivity.

>>2554293
>I'm not sure why as I have only been communicating with them over the internet. Perhaps it's just a matter of sensitivity.

You have Aspergers, don't you? Not even trolling, you praised people with Aspergers as being of some more honest higher moral order earlier on, which sounds like rather self-justification.

>>2553651
you start shining, honeybun

Sounds like an excuse for being awkward to me.