/lit/ - Literature

His short stories are boss. Familiar, Details, Different Sky(ies?)and Covehithe are high tier short stories at least.
I really enjoyed Kraken and Un Lun Dun, even though they aren't considered that great. King Rat was thoroughly meh though.
Embassytown, Perdido Street Station, and The Scar are definitely my favourites.

>>2502262
Have you read The City and The City?

Also, I've seen good reviews for Un Lun Dun, but it seems to be marketed as a YA book? In what way is it a YA novel? Does he just leave out mature themes or is because the protagonist is a child or what?

>>2502264

Yeah, CatC was pretty awesome. It was pretty impressive how he stretched out a metaphor into an entire novel, and it still seemed meaningful after 400 pages.

Un Lun Dun is a full blown YA novel. Well written, funny, and interesting, but definitely YA. Its more about playing with destiny and chosen one tropes than his usual schtik. The themes are a bit deeper than regular YA, but not by far. Its mainly about comedy and having fun. Think Alice in Wonderland/Neverwhere mixed with Perdido Street Station.

>>2502264
city and the city made me feel like I was on drugs while I began to understand what was happening.

that's not Melville

>>2502278

Obviously.

I don't understand the china love on here. He's a tutor of mine at University. He's a just hipster who writes by reading a lot of science fiction, writes cliched science fiction, then takes out the science-fiction explanations of things..and calls it 'weird'.


cliched mash-

>>2502307
>I don't understand [how people can disagree with my opinions]

Fascinating

>writes cliched science fiction

Embassytown is his first sci-fi

>>2502307

There is an almost universal human desire to dislike those who accomplish great things. Take China Miéville, for instance. He wrote a novel, Perdido Street Station, that single-handedly changed the rules of the fantasy genre, and he did it before he turned thirty. What’s more, he did it while being tall, devilishly handsome, and cut like an action-figure. What fantasy writer looks like that? It wouldn’t be so unbearable if he had the good taste to be short, fat, or at the very least old. But he is none of those things.

>>2502307
Didn't think I'd ever find another person from Warwick on here. Haven't seen Miéville teach or anything. Enjoyed The City and the City, haven't read anything else by him.

>>2502318
>>> I don't understand [how people can disagree with my opinions]

>>Fascinating [I'm too much of a sarcastic bad-ass, I
can't just explain why I disagree with your opinion].

Here's a break down of my post.

>>I don't understand the china love on here.
This is me stating my opinion.

>>He's a just hipster who writes by reading a lot of science fiction, writes cliched science fiction, then takes out the science-fiction explanations of things..and calls it 'weird'.

This is me providing a rational for my opinion.

In other words: statement ~> explanation of statement. Do you have a problem with this format?

>>Embassytown is his first sci-fi.

Oh you.

>>2502320

Out of his bibliography, I've got the most time for Perdido Street Station. It hardly 'single-handedly changed the rules of the fantasy genre'. Whenever someone claims that a single cultural artifact, single-handedly, redfined a impossibly multifaceted cultural medium; they can almost always, yes there are exceptions..no, PSS isn't one, fuck right off.

I was about to respond to your post, assuming that you were some horrid fan-girl...who stank of cheese, claimed to be a journalist by writing love letters to your favourite authors and musicians, and in other life would be the hardest of twihard. Then I googled it. Fuck me, it's an impressively sycophantic interview. I'm suprised 'THE BELIEVER' didn't asked to swallow his piss.

>>2502329
I think I've seen about 3 of us. 4 including you. China hardly teaches at Warwick anymore. Only two years per year, I think. Since the City and City winning a Hugo, his prestige has probably priced him somewhat out of academia.

The City and the City is okay. Ditto PSS.

The Kraken, Un dun Lun, Iron Council, King Rat. I think they were poor.

>>2502340

>This is me stating my opinion.
>"He's a just hipster who writes by reading a lot of science fiction..to me it's cliched"

>This is me providing a more opinions for my opinion.

your opinions are cliched.

>>2502361
Because the critiquing literature isn't a process of just layering your opinions about texts and their authors in well-worded ways.

Also, your face is cliched.

>>2502366

there were no explanations or rationale provided, just one opinion after the other.

"hes bad"
"i find him cliched"

ok...what are your examples, and explanations, justifications?

>>2502368
He's shit.

>>2502320
>Devilishly Handsome
>Bald, pale, covered in tattoos
I don't think so, bro. He might not be some neckbeard like GRRM or Patrick Rothfuss, but Scott Lynch or Joe Abercombie are much more attractive (god damn I feel gay right now).
>Single-handily changed fantasy
How so? His books don't seem that revolutionary to me.

>>2502307
>author writes a lot of weird subject matter in his books
>anon calls it cliche
>anon doesn't know the meaning of cliche

Anybody excited to see what he can do with his latest project?

>>2502399
Weird isn't inherently original.

>>2502408
lol here we go. as usual litfags miss the point. the point is that mieville's novels AREN'T cliche. please make your statements within context and not just what another anon says in his post by itself. if i must be clear, the context is that we're talking about this man's work...not just "weird" ideas by themselves.

i'd like anyone that calls it cliche to give me the MANY examples of books that came before it that qualifies it as cliche.

>>2502419
.....no. You're somewhat falling on your own sword there. I didn't miss the point of their points. Also, not to be a dick. what. is. all. this. about.

They said.

>>1) anon calls it cliche
>>2) anon doesn't know the meaning of cliche

1) Is acknowledging that I'm calling CM's work cliche. With the accompanying picture, this acknowledgement serves to imply that I'm wrong: that CM isn't cliche.

2) Is implying that I don't understand what cliche means; assumedly because I believe CM to be irksomely derivative. I couldn’t possibly understand ‘cliché’ and hold this opinion.

There's no particularly interesting point there. It's just 'YOU ARE WRONG. YOU ARE SO WRONG THAT YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. CM IS GOOD. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT CLICHE EVEN MEANS, RETARD'. Except, without the allcaps. Now, that's pretty boring. Too boring to compose a reply too, and would just end up with us slinging mud. So, instead, I picked up on what I thought was an interesting sub-text...the idea that cliché doesn't apply to CM, or more importantly 'weird fiction', due to the form and function and function – because weird is subversive.

>>i'd like anyone that calls it cliche to give me the MANY examples of books that came before it that qualifies it as cliche.

He used to teach a 10-week course entitled 'Weird Fiction', in which he talked about the roots of his pet-genre. Every week he presented several authors which his style takes 'inspiration' from. Do you really want a list…because, lastly, all books have 'MANY books' (or an oral/poetic/musical/theatrical tradition) behind them. You’re going the wrong way about arguing your point. You CANNOT argue that he doesn’t have predecessors, whom he is borrowing from, because you can’t do that for any author. All you can do is argue that he’s being sufficiently original in re-working his traditions.

I'm almost done with kraken. I think it's one of his best works, right up there with Perdido Street Station.

How was Un Lun Dun?

>>2502469
sounds like a case of you being too close to him. for instance, i'm sure if i had to take harlan ellison's class i'd fucking hate his work too.

the fact of the matter is that for me, mieville's work is hardly cliche. i have read what i consider a great deal of sf (guin, willis, ellison, strugatsky bros, lem, asimov, heinlein, bester, dick, etc.) and think that some of his ideas are mind bending (particularly embassytown and city and the city) and innovative in a world building way that is rarely seen in other books. he admittedly has inspiration from other authors, but who doesn't?

i'd ask that if you're going to call him cliche, that you present an example of a sci-fi, fantasy, or "speculative fiction" author who you consider to write novels that aren't cliche

I'm sorry, but Kraken is really not my thing

Too... British? I dunno

Nothing objectively wrong with it though

>>2502469
CM is definitely borrowing from predecessors (& those predecessors should definitely be more widely read) but that doesn't make him cliche. Cliche has a very specific meaning. Every author is influenced. Cliche means that the author is borrowing things that are old and worn out - that he's employing themes and tropes and characters and plots that are incredibly familiar staples in a way that's unoriginal or uninspired. For CM to be cliche, that would have to mean that there was a body of work which contained a significant number of the things he was writing about, that all these things had been worked through so much that any reasonably-read person in the field would be very familiar with pretty much everything that he's doing.

I don't think that's the case. The field is not that extensive or well-traveled... CM is doing things that are strongly influenced by people who came before, yes, but that doesn't necessarily make him cliched. Borrowing from predecessors IS NOT the same as dealing in cliches.

>>2502612
You're probably right. I used to enjoy George Saunders. Then I gained access to some of his Syracuse lectures. Now he fills me with rage.

>>2502820

>> Borrowing from predecessors IS NOT the same as dealing in cliches.

I know, and you probably know that I know. I was discussing predecessors as a previous poster seemed to be implying that CM didn't have any. I suppose we can agree to disagree. I do find CM unoriginal or uninspired, I feel like you can read
Hodgson, Larrabeiti, Le Guin, Disch, etc...and then find nothing particularly inspired or new in CM. But if you do, congratulations.

>>2502864
>You're probably right. I used to enjoy George Saunders. Then I gained access to some of his Syracuse lectures. Now he fills me with rage.

How so?

>>2502864
>I know, and you probably know that I know. I was discussing predecessors as a previous poster seemed to be implying that CM didn't have any. I suppose we can agree to disagree. I do find CM unoriginal or uninspired, I feel like you can read Hodgson, Larrabeiti, Le Guin, Disch, etc...and then find nothing particularly inspired or new in CM. But if you do, congratulations.

Yeah I figured. To be honest I don't really care for CM as a writer, I'm not really a fan. I just don't think it's because he's unoriginal. His writing just doesn't do anything for me, stylistically. Also, I feel like people like Moorcock and M. John Harrison are more relevant signposts for CM's influences? but I'm not sure. Anyway, we cool, I don't think CM's unoriginal or cliched but difference of opinion.

>>2502307

-1000/10

Anyone heard anything about Railsea?