/lit/ - Literature

>being from the West
>thinking you can into buddhism
>nope.

Wrong cultural and societal mentality.

Try Catholicism.

>>2432505

About a thousand years ago, some Japanese guy:

>being from the Far East
>thinking you can into buddhism
>nope
>wrong cultural and societal mentality
>try shinto

A short while later:

>Buddhism, Buddhism everywhere

>trying to find myself
>through the methods of others
>through doctrine
>through chantings that mean something to those from a certain context and which I couldn't relate nearly as deeply as them from my perspective

>are you even trying
>trying to meditate
>trying to anything instead of just being/doing it

There is no try, man. Get your shit together.

WOOO DEGENERATE DHARMA PARTY!!!

>>2432519
From a linguistic point of view I thought it was weird how you said "about a thousand years ago" as some large portion of time and then "a short while later" as tiny passage, even though it was the same time. Very convenient for your argument, bro.

I know your feel though, I don't want to get into that, I mostly agree with you.

I've always found Pure Land the least interesting form of Buddhism. Calling upon some being to get you to some better place after you die? Sounds mighty familiar.

>>2432533
At least christianity is a bit more friendly. Buddhism is just cold and unfeeling.

didn't nietzsche believe in oneness? i dont know 'cause i'm not reading that faggot.

>>2432537
unless you're gay

>>2432543
Hate the sin, love the sinner, anon.

Go and sin no more.

>having a darkened nous
>not engaging in theoria
>not seeking theosis
>not being a hesychast

O most laudable Tree, which held the Word, the most holy of all holy beings, reject not our supplication, but hearken unto us in your goodness and strengthen our hearts in Thy fear, and let your grace be upon me O Lord like a fire consuming the impure thoughts within me. O Lord are the Light above all lights, the Joy above all joys, the Repose above all repose, the True Life, and the Salvation that abides unto the ages of ages. Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God; however long we live in the flesh we are separate from Christ, but if we die we live for eternity.

Please, stop this Christian crusade right now, go do good, stop bothering us, I beg you, have mercy, your samefaggotry is way too obvious. Get off your computer a second, be cool, stop trying to convert people.

>>2432568
>not being able to differentiate between the Catholic and the Orthodox poster.

By the way:
>>2432564
Stop right there, heretic quietist scum.

>>2432538
Probably. I know Stirner believed in "oneness" as it was his whole philosophy. If Nietzsche actually read him then he probably had that shit stick too.

>>2432574
>stirner
>a monist
>an egoist monist

What?

>>2432568
>Doesn't want people converting
>Starts indirectly denying people

ITT: People not realising that Dharmic religions are the only ones compatible with the transhumanist future

>>2432586
>believing in transhumanism

laughingwhores.jpg

>>2432589

The only alternative is the demise of mankind and I don't see that happening any time soon.

inb4 raging survivalists

Nah, sorry. Ontological suicide just ain't that attractive an idea for me, you see.

>>2432595
Why not? Feels good not being a self, man.

>>2432578

The Ego and It's Own states early on that people who attempt to prove free will (same as Nietzsche recalled later on in Beyond Good and Evil) are fools taken by an ideal that doesn't exist. The whole notion of "man" is just a replaced subject which means "god". It's his repelling of Feuerbach. He merely subscribes to something akin to Spinoza-ism in his theory of being. Anyone from Hegel derives that same view more or less.

I won't get into Egoism but it isn't control of one self in the sense of free will. It's being oneself to the maximum as it pertains to the world everyday. It's to not give up your oneness with everything but subverting to something completely so that something becomes the ruler of you instead of the other way around..

>>2432600
but subverting to something completely so that something becomes the ruler of you instead of the other way around..

I mean by not.

fat lenny approves of this thread

>>2432549
>Go and sin no more.
I try not to sin, but it's too funny...
Lied, I don't even try.

>>2432572
>Stop right there, heretic quietist scum.

Why do RCs consider hesychasm a heresy? We did, but we got over it in one of the councils.

>>2432599

>Feels

What does?

>>2432622

The Carthusians are the closest we have.

>>2432634

That's the point. Differentiation between action and actor are a grammatical convention, not something concerning actual phenomena. This becomes clear in some cases, such as "it rains". Here we realise the rain is raining and the raining is rain, but for grammatical reasons we add the word 'it'.

>>2432650

In English, mind you. Several languages don't need to have an express subject. But this is linguistics, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand as far as I can see.

"Feels good", you said. Who or what is feeling good?

>>2432665
The feel feels good.

>>2432669

"The feel" is as much a word as "it".

>>2432665
Linguistics has to do with it because you are nitpicking on it. There is nothing that feels good, but the "feels good" is there, that's the point.


English is something, several other languages don't have that "problem". But they have other stuff to them, some don't have articles, some use a word to describe something we need several, etc. He used the "it rains" as an example.

Not the guy by the way.

Pure Land is such a bastardization of the teachings that it's offensive.

>>2432679

So there is nothing... but there's still something in spite of there being nothing.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make a lick of sense.

>>2432679
>Linguistics has to do with it because you are nitpicking on it. There is nothing that feels good, but the "feels good" is there, that's the point.
>Not the guy by the way.

The guy here, that is indeed what I meant. It has everything to do with the topic at hand, because our linguistic conventions have created the illusion that there are such things as objects, while objects are merely phenomena in flux in which we recognize some concept long enough to put a label on it.

For example, what we call a wave is just a behaviour of water. We objectify a happening as a being, as some static thing that exists on its own.

>>2432692
No, the being is the doing. There is no difference between being and doing. Every object could be explained as phenomenon, every noun as a verb. It is the differentiating where we go wrong.

>>2432711

>No, the being is the doing. There is no difference between being and doing. Every object could be explained as phenomenon, every noun as a verb. It is the differentiating where we go wrong.

Still linguistics, as far as I can see.

hmmm ITT people on /lit/ feel apt to critique a religious tradition with undergrad philosophizing and butthurt name calling? I didn't even read the replies, can someone tell me how close I am? Namo Amita Butsu.

>>2432692
It's because you are taking "feel good" too seriously. To put it in other words, you want, you have or don't have, if you don't have you continue wanting, if you have you are sufficient, but that sufficient is empty and you want something else instead. But what if one acts on it from a different perspective, by not wanting it? The nothingness that came with that satisfaction and sufficiency is there, but if you really feel sufficient, you are bound to go back to the wanting again. So in order to achieve some balance, you have to erase the idea of self from the mind. And it's not permanent, it's not eternal, it's just some sort of awareness that you also have not being into yourself.

I know it sounds contraditory, but it's preety complementing really. Just some realization over how much we fabricate things, "misconceptions". First that if you don't have that ipad you are not going to be happy, or that if you don't please the girl you won't be happy, or that if you, you, you... And then you see that this sense of self is also fabricated. You'll see other apparently contraditory stuff in a bunch of western philosopher's as well.

>>2432721

>I didn't even read the replies

Try reading them.

>>2432713
But it does makes sense to you now, I hope? It explains who there doesn't have to be (or can't be) a separate feeler for the feel. Which in turn leads to the idea of no-self/anatman.

westerns should not see other "religions", philosophies etc. as an alternative to take if not happy with your own, but rather as examples to start something new on their own.
this ethical and mental laziness is what prevents people from actually getting to see something else.

>>2432756

As a matter of fact, it really, really doesn't.

>>2432765
Watch some Alan Watts videos, bro. It might help you.

Taoist master race here.

Enjoy your obsession with suffering, Buddhistfags.

> Pure Land

theravada is the only true path bro

>>2432784
What are the main differences? Honest ignorant here.

>>2432784
> not seeing dukkha in all experience

enjoy your samsara man.

>>2432762

According to that logic, Buddhism should have never been more than a small sect in ancient India which should've died out. It survived though, because it was adapted by Himalayan and Chinese peoples among others. Here it evolved to other expressions and interpretations of it, absorbed local philosophy/religion (Bön and Taoism for example) and grew into what we now know as Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Even earlier the Dharma spread to Sri Lanka and south east Asia, where it exists now as the Theravada tradition.

Everything you know as Buddhism know is the direct result of people adopting foreign religion. It has nothing to do with laziness. I would rather say that a useless preoccupation with reinventing the wheel would be a lot more silly.

It's also funny how this only works one way. You never hear someone say "lol dumb Nips you can't into Wittgenstein, lazy fuckers, get your own philosophy", because that would sound ridiculous. But apparently people still think that the mysterious Orient is off limits for Westerners.

>>2432793
Read the Tao Te Ching
At worst it's a quick read.
It's good advice though... take it or leave it.

>>2432816

Yeah, yeah.

You have a good existential suicide, too.

>Are you even trying, /lit/?
>Trying
doing it wrong anyway

>>2432826
I think it's because of what happened when Buddhism became one of the go-to religions of the New Age movement. The interpretations were mostly shallow or wrong, but they were/are far-reaching enough to become the face of Western Buddhism.

Also Jack Kerouac kind of made it seem like it was okay to vaguely cite various sutras or words from the lexicon without the proper knowledge.

>>2432850
enjoy your mundane knowledge and not the supra-mundane one that comes from the develop of the eight fold path, the true freedom only comes from the insight into dukkha, anatta and anicca. I hope that you'll be rebirth in a good realm.

Try to work on sila at least.

Metta

>Implying any serious seeker in any tradition would waste their time on internet discussion boards

So much hipster posturing ITT.

>>2432564
>>2432622

Roman Catholics fail to recognize the essence-energies distinction, which is of central importance to Hesychast doctrine. This is probably why Catholics generally can't into contemplative mysticism.

Don't understand anything that's going on in this thread but it's pretty cool

Hesychasm is cool based on the first couple sentences from wikipedia.

>>2432862
I see what you mean. However, Westerners have only been practising Buddhism for less then a century, arguably for less than fifty years. If you compare that with the long standing traditions of the East, I think it's perfectly normal that we are still trying things out, fucking things up, missing the point et cetera.

Even then, apart from the beatnik and hippie stuff there are quite some serious meditation groups and even monasteries in the West. People who take the Dharma seriously seem to be willing to put in the work and actually practice Buddhism, as opposed to a lot of the East where it often merely fulfils the role of some kind of social institution and conducts certain rituals of passage out of tradition .

While this Western enthusiasm may attract a lot of hacks and conmen, it also attracts serious teachers. I would go as far to say that the West holds the future of Buddhism, since people here are eager and interested where a lot of Asians seem to find it rather dull, being exposed to it as a bunch of old meaningless rites and rituals, not unlike the experience young Westerners have with Christianity.

>>2432784
>implying zen isnt the tao with some extra things

>not getting into the Pure Land in order to reach Nirvana in a quick and pleasant

Nothing Buddha did was quick and pleasant. If nothing else, he earned his way to Enlightenment.

>>2432883
>seeker
>implying you can seek this shit, homeboy

aint such thing as satori in this hood or anywhere, nigguh

Orthodox Christianity - Hesychasm

Hinduism - Raja Yoga/Hatha Yoga, Vedanta, etc.

Judaism - Kabbalah

Sunni Islam - Sufism

>>2432899
>>2432862
I think you both have good points. For now, westeners into Buddhism still deserve some "oh well", because indeed many have a knowledge that is corrupted by translation over translation, interpretation over inter pretation.

But you know what, I don't see much of a problem, because the more you go into it, the more you realize the Buddha motherfucker was right when he himself mentioned there was no way to pass that knowledge without missing it.

Recommend an ignorant westerner a good book on this stuff.

Buddhism/taoism/miscellaneous.

>>2432913
Hesychasm is a small practice within the holy abode Orthodoxy. I'd suggest going to an Orthodox church to experience the liturgy or praying from the heart to approach the uncreated light of the Lord.

>>2432950
question: what will happen if i'm not an eastern european and go to an orthodox church?

>>2432958
I also would like to know this. My skin is brown but I am highly civilized and I consider myself to be a gentleman of the finest order.

>>2432502
>Are you even tryi-

Time enough for all that in the grave!

>>2432958
>>2432967

Nothing would happen to you if you're not cradle Orthodox. I'm Russian Orthodox, but I live in the United States, although I was raised in an old believer family in Belarus. In U.S. most services are in Russian (Slavonic) with a bit of English (like the homily). Unlike the Roman Catholics, we put a lot of emphasis on the Transfiguration and on cosmic qualities of Christ Pantokrator, not on his earthly life and his Passion. if you need more info about Orthodoxy e-mail me.

for service, you can show up and stand through the liturgy (no kneeling or sitting), cover your head (if you're a gal). Just show up and don't disturb other people, in an Orthodox church no one will look askance at you, since it is only between you and God.

>>2432970
>Hitchens

You're a long way from home, child. Sage because this thread is now shit.

>>2432947
on zen buddhism, the way of zen (by alan watts)
on the tao, the tao: watercourse way (alan watts, again) or the tao te ching (by lao tzu), but I dont even know what translation is a good one

>>2432980
What home are you alluding to? "Spirituality" is it?

<-For you, young one.

>>2432992
>Suggests babby-tier Enlightenment crap and the pseudo-intellectual ramblings of hacks like Christopher Hitchens

>Implies that others are inexperienced/ignorant

high school general?

>>2432983
>>2432947
On Alan Watts, check his videos. I was surprised to see how many material is out there for us to watch. He talks about a lot of stuff, on tao, zen, on westerners trying to learn that, on meditation, on ecology, on drugs, on enlightenment, on words and meanings, on fear....

>>2433019
I've known about Watts for a while. I've been a little put off cause I thought he was kind of watered down buddhism or some stoner guy like Timothy Leary.

Will be checking out his stuff though.

>>2433025
Watered down, not so much, but entry level. I think people fear taking him seriously because he is a westener and all, I say it's good that he is, because he might be an useful link between the west and the east, and a guy that valued the careful use of his words and at least tried to ease on any excessive adultered point of views on the eastern world.

>>2433014
>Won't answer simple question. Increased likelihood of troll

If not: It maybe "babby-tier" but that's just your level. I and Hitch before me found true enlightenment. And its not to meditate into oblivion.

>>2433054
lol dat pic

>Won't answer simple question.

It was about religious esotericism/mysticism. If you don't know much about the subjects and it doesn't interest you, fine, but please don't shit up the discussion with troll posts.

>If not: It maybe "babby-tier" but that's just your level.

Already read my fair share of Enlightenment stuff and early American political philosophy, thanks.

>I and Hitch before me found true enlightenment.

His writings on religion were shoddy and polemical, not academic; they're unworthy of serious consideration by anyone with a background or interest in religious studies or the anthropology of religion.

>And its not to meditate into oblivion.

I agree. I'm not a Buddhist or a particularly religious person in the first place.

>>2433118
>I agree. I'm not a Buddhist or a particularly religious person in the first place.

What in the hell could you have meant by "You're a long way from home"?
Elitist snobbery.

Anyone here knows some good works in English on Tiantai/Tendai Buddhism? I've read that it's one of the largest denominations in the East, but there seems to be very little attention for it here.

>>2432502
are you retarded?
pure land is basically just christianity
that a person who i assume grew up around christianity would choose that form of buddhism when they could have just gone to church or sat in their room and prayed to jesus constantly boggles my fucking mind
if troll (haven't read thread), nice troll, i've seen so many buddhism threads getting 100 angry replies from the hipster police

Is there a reason for the popularity of the Tibetan variant of Buddhism in the West except for the whole Tibetan diaspora?

>>2433821
they're the occult branch of buddhism

plus the dalai lama that gets his dick sucked every now and then by famous people

>>2434114
Wouldn't being an occult branch actually be problematic for Westeners since they, apart from Vajrayana, tend to be more interested in almost secular forms of Buddhism?

>>2434114
>religious hipster

>>2434134
>using the word hipster for everything

I don't even know why you called me hipster, but please get back in /mu/

>>2434130
I highly doubt that the secular ways of a religion are the one that gets the more attention in the west

>that feel when you want to be a compassionate Buddhist but then you read some Youtube comments, realise humanity isn't worth it and go back to Stirner.

>>2434507

Look a hipster

>Burn the witch, burn her!

>>2435031
Compassion is for the dumb.

>>2435031
fuck being a Buddhist. if you really want to help people who are worthy and have potential then get a job in a school for gifted kids or something similar

>>2436781
>Helping bourgeois little shits inflate their egos to epic proportions
Not my idea of a good time.

>>2436781
> gifted kids

Her mother: "Oh, she is gifted, she's highly gifted."

> mfw

>>2432599

That's funny, because I've had loss of self experiences on mushrooms, and let me tell you, "good" is about the last word I would use to describe them.

>>2432599

That's funny, because I've had loss of self experiences on mushrooms, and let me tell you, "good" is about the last word I would use to describe the way they felt.

>>2437020
That's because of the grasping and because a life of Buddhist practice prepares one for such experiences, where just taking drugs doesn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHUr0CxJ7h4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen

A pillow under your ass, yourself. Repeat until emptiness and universal embodiment.

>Vegan when able but otherwise vegetarian.
>Participate in Civil Disobedience
>Reject consumerism.

Are you even trying OP?

>>2438225

>living in a house on a friends land for free
>writing about how you're totally hip and independent
>half hour walk into town, have nice dinners with bourgois mom

Are you even sincere, Thoreau?